1 Corinthians 8:6 and The Holy Trinity

[Runningman]

John testified about Jesus who was the word of life as in the eternal life with the Father in the beginning. That life appeared, Jesus, whom they saw, heard and touched. That Life that appeared=Jesus who is very much a living being not a it.

The it that was with the Father was manifested. The "word of life" isn't a person because words aren't what a person is. God isn't simply a word.

God did not prepare our bodies. The Son who was, His spirit, was in the body GOD prepared for Him. Mary conceived by the Spirit of God. Jesus spoke of this beforehand, "a body you have prepared for me"

God prepared a body for Jesus because God created him like all other humans who are made of matter. God didn't want Jesus to be sacrificed, but would have rather extended mercy to people. The same applies to other people.


Hebrews 10
5Therefore, when Christ came into the world, He said:
“Sacrifice and offering You did not desire,
but a body You prepared for Me.
6In burnt offerings and sin offerings
You took no delight.

The prophecies spoken beforehand about Christ. -The Spirit of Christ in them at that time
trying to find out the time and circumstances to which the Spirit of Christ in them was pointing when he predicted the sufferings of the Messiah

No problem, but the "spirit of Christ" isn't the same thing as saying the "spirit of Jesus." It refers to the messiah anointing. Jesus wasn't the first to have it. Among many examples of this, is Leviticus 4:3:

3If the anointed (messiah anointing) priest sins, bringing guilt on the people, he must bring to the LORD a young bull without blemish as a sin offering for the sin he has committed.​

I don't recall stating Jesus is the Fathers Deity. I have stated many times the Fullness of the Fathers Deity was pleased to dwell in Christ. In that context Jesus is the image of the invisible God. The imprint of Gods very being.

God isn't the image of God hence why the Father is never called the "image of God." The Father is God Himself, Jesus is not.

John is testifying about Jesus. You state he testifying about the Father.
He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him.

Then in your theology there's a red hot contradiction. Jesus didn't come from above, but rather from the world? He said otherwise.

Sure it does. You just don't believe in the Son who was.

Yes I do.

The one who comes from above is above all; the one who is from the earth belongs to the earth, and speaks as one from the earth. The one who comes from heaven is above all. 32He testifies to what he has seen and heard, but no one accepts his testimony.

Exactly. Therefore Jesus was not in the world. John 1 is partly about God the Father creating Jesus.

Paul is stating the Supremacy of Christ in the creation, church and resurrection.
And verses 16 and 17
For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

The image of God, rather than God Himself, created the universe? That doesn't even make sense. What I am trying to get you to see is that Jesus' instrumentality in creation refers specifically to the church. It's all over the New Testament. Hebrews 1:2, Colossians 1:15-20, 1 John 1:1-3, just to name a few off the top of my head.

No, your consistent denials are not helpful to anyone.

It's helping you. You will thank me later.

 

[Tulipbee]

Hi Tulipbee
You'd have a good conversation with my brother.
He's a writer.

But you're in the Apologetics Forum in the sub-forum for the discussion on the Trinity.

Since you know so much about it, and let's give some thanks to Athanasias for insisting, why not REALLY post and leave writing for other areas?

Seriously.

Could you repost, cut it down and shed some historic light on the subject?

Ah, GodsGrace, the cosmic custodian of conciseness, seeking to trim the celestial verbiage! Let's condense the cosmic journey through Corinthians, shall we? In the grand narrative of 1 Corinthians 8:6, the celestial triad – God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit – dances in unity. The cosmic tug-of-war over manuscripts, translations, and the Council of Constantinople in A.D. 553 affirm this celestial truth. As we cast a cosmic glance at papal system errors, let the cosmic light of truth shine on the discussion of the Trinity.

 

[Tulipbee]

no idea what you are on about!

Ah, SolaScriptura, the guardian of scriptural clarity, lost in the cosmic labyrinth of my celestial banter! Let's navigate the theological maze of Calvinism with a touch of divine comedy, shall we?

Now, Calvin, the grand maestro of theological symphony, composed his magnum opus in the Institutes of the Christian Religion. Picture him orchestrating the cosmic dance of predestination, election, and irresistible grace with divine precision. A celestial harmony that resonates through the corridors of Calvinistic thought.

As we delve into the Scriptures, behold the cosmic verses that Calvinists hold dear. Romans 8:29, Ephesians 1:4-5, and John 6:44 – the cosmic playlist of predestination, playing in the background of Calvinist theology. But fear not, for Calvinism doesn't shy away from free will! It's not a puppet show; it's a divine partnership. Picture Calvinists doing the cha-cha with God, both leading in perfect harmony.

Now, let's expose the Arminian errors, the theological dance-offs where free will takes center stage. But wait, Calvinism believes in free will too! Not the Arminian "choose your own adventure" kind, but a divine waltz where our steps are guided by the sovereign choreographer.

So, SolaScriptura, fear not the cosmic banter, for in this divine comedy, Calvinism sings the celestial truth. Let the theological dance continue, and may the cosmic light of truth shine on our scriptural journey!

 

[GodsGrace]

Ah, GodsGrace, the cosmic custodian of conciseness, seeking to trim the celestial verbiage! Let's condense the cosmic journey through Corinthians, shall we? In the grand narrative of 1 Corinthians 8:6, the celestial triad – God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit – dances in unity. The cosmic tug-of-war over manuscripts, translations, and the Council of Constantinople in A.D. 553 affirm this celestial truth. As we cast a cosmic glance at papal system errors, let the cosmic light of truth shine on the discussion of the Trinity.

I love it TB !
I just wish you'd really just post.
Seems like you'd have a lot to say.

 

[GodsGrace]

Ah, SolaScriptura, the guardian of scriptural clarity, lost in the cosmic labyrinth of my celestial banter! Let's navigate the theological maze of Calvinism with a touch of divine comedy, shall we?

Now, Calvin, the grand maestro of theological symphony, composed his magnum opus in the Institutes of the Christian Religion. Picture him orchestrating the cosmic dance of predestination, election, and irresistible grace with divine precision. A celestial harmony that resonates through the corridors of Calvinistic thought.

As we delve into the Scriptures, behold the cosmic verses that Calvinists hold dear. Romans 8:29, Ephesians 1:4-5, and John 6:44 – the cosmic playlist of predestination, playing in the background of Calvinist theology. But fear not, for Calvinism doesn't shy away from free will! It's not a puppet show; it's a divine partnership. Picture Calvinists doing the cha-cha with God, both leading in perfect harmony.

Now, let's expose the Arminian errors, the theological dance-offs where free will takes center stage. But wait, Calvinism believes in free will too! Not the Arminian "choose your own adventure" kind, but a divine waltz where our steps are guided by the sovereign choreographer.

So, SolaScriptura, fear not the cosmic banter, for in this divine comedy, Calvinism sings the celestial truth. Let the theological dance continue, and may the cosmic light of truth shine on our scriptural journey!

We can't derail this thread.
Care to start a thread in Apologetics on your 3 verses and how they seem to confirm Calvin's celestial dance?

Oops.
I think he just miss-stepped!

 

[Tulipbee]

We can't derail this thread.
Care to start a thread in Apologetics on your 3 verses and how they seem to confirm Calvin's celestial dance?

Oops.
I think he just miss-stepped!

My sincere apologies, GodsGrace! It seems my celestial dance led me astray, pirouetting into the wrong arena. I appreciate your guidance, and I'll gracefully step back on track. Let's keep the cosmic conversation aligned in the right threads.

 

[Tulipbee]

I love it TB !
I just wish you'd really just post.
Seems like you'd have a lot to say.

Ah, GodsGrace, the cosmic challenge of choosing where to embark on the celestial journey through religious landscapes! It's like being at a cosmic buffet with too many divine dishes. I'm familiar with many religious feasts, and honestly, I don't know where to start the cosmic conversation. It's like having a galaxy of options!

 

[Tulipbee]

I love it TB !
I just wish you'd really just post.
Seems like you'd have a lot to say.

If you grant me admin powers, I'll be here more often than a cat demanding attention, dropping wisdom like confetti at a cosmic celebration.

 

[GodsGrace]

If you grant me admin powers, I'll be here more often than a cat demanding attention, dropping wisdom like confetti at a cosmic celebration.

But we all need wisdom!

I'll start a thread for you.
On Calvinism and why it's so wrong!!!

Will we still be friends after that?

I'll tag you in.

 

[GodsGrace]

If you grant me admin powers, I'll be here more often than a cat demanding attention, dropping wisdom like confetti at a cosmic celebration.

Admin powers!
Be careful what you pray for...you just might get it.

 

[Randy]

The it that was with the Father was manifested. The "word of life" isn't a person because words aren't what a person is. God isn't simply a word.

Jesus whom John was testifying about was and still is that word of life, the eternal with the Father in the beginning.
Didn't you read: That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched=>this we proclaim concerning the Word of life
"The life" appeared; we have "seen it "and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us.

Jesus is not a it.

God prepared a body for Jesus because God created him like all other humans who are made of matter. God didn't want Jesus to be sacrificed, but would have rather extended mercy to people. The same applies to other people.

Mary conceived by the Spirit of God. The virgin gave birth to the Son of God. God is His Father not any man.
Or do you disagree with that as well? The only such begotten Son. "A" body you have prepared for me. The "me" preexisted that body.

Hebrews 10
5Therefore, when Christ came into the world, He said:
“Sacrifice and offering You did not desire,
but a body You prepared for Me.
6In burnt offerings and sin offerings
You took no delight.

Infants talk?

No problem, but the "spirit of Christ" isn't the same thing as saying the "spirit of Jesus." It refers to the messiah anointing. Jesus wasn't the first to have it. Among many examples of this, is Leviticus 4:3:

Its states prior existence of Jesus as a being for the Spirit of Christ was involved with the prophet beforehand Christ existed beforehand. I see you are using your Houdini theology to find a way of escape of the truth to fit your theology. Truth from the text.
Again:Concerning this salvation, the prophets, who spoke of the grace that was to come to you, searched intently and with the greatest care, 11trying to find out the time and circumstances to which the Spirit of Christ in them was pointing when he predicted the sufferings of the Messiah and the glories that would follow.

3If the anointed (messiah anointing) priest sins, bringing guilt on the people, he must bring to the LORD a young bull without blemish as a sin offering for the sin he has committed.​

Thats irrelevant

God isn't the image of God hence why the Father is never called the "image of God." The Father is God Himself, Jesus is not.

It means He is all that the Father is for all that the Father is, the fullness, was pleased to dwell in Him.

Then in your theology there's a red hot contradiction. Jesus didn't come from above, but rather from the world? He said otherwise.

He came from above. John the Baptist was the first to understand that. Which has been shown already

The image of God, rather than God Himself, created the universe? That doesn't even make sense. What I am trying to get you to see is that Jesus' instrumentality in creation refers specifically to the church. It's all over the New Testament. Hebrews 1:2, Colossians 1:15-20, 1 John 1:1-3, just to name a few off the top of my head.

God created by and through and for Jesus. The Deity in Christ that created remains the Fathers. Jesus in the Father and the Father in Him.
None of those reference scriptures you gave mean just the church. They show Christ as a craftsman in the beginning in regard to the creation of all things.

It's helping you. You will thank me later.

I'm not seeking understand. I know who Jesus is.

 

[Runningman]

Jesus whom John was testifying about was and still is that word of life, the eternal with the Father in the beginning.

An it according to 1 John 1:1-2

Didn't you read: That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched=>this we proclaim concerning the Word of life
"The life" appeared; we have "seen it "and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us.

Didn't you read: the disciples were not there at the literal beginning of creation to see, hear, or touch anything. This refers to the beginning the ministry of Jesus... after he was born.

Jesus is not a it.

Correct.

Mary conceived by the Spirit of God. The virgin gave birth to the Son of God. God is His Father not any man.
Or do you disagree with that as well? The only such begotten Son. "A" body you have prepared for me. The "me" preexisted that body.

That has never been my position.

Infants talk?

Sorry, had to laugh that you actually asked that.

Its states prior existence of Jesus as a being for the Spirit of Christ was involved with the prophet beforehand Christ existed beforehand. I see you are using your Houdini theology to find a way of escape of the truth to fit your theology. Truth from the text.

You're trying to escape the truth by projecting something into the scripture that isn't there.

Again:Concerning this salvation, the prophets, who spoke of the grace that was to come to you, searched intently and with the greatest care, 11trying to find out the time and circumstances to which the Spirit of Christ in them was pointing when he predicted the sufferings of the Messiah and the glories that would follow.

And the Spirit of Christ isn't a person. It refers to an anointing.

Thats irrelevant

A Bible verse about the messiah anointing applying to other people is not irrelevant.

It means He is all that the Father is for all that the Father is, the fullness, was pleased to dwell in Him.

Not "all" we are referring specifically to the nature of God.

He came from above. John the Baptist was the first to understand that. Which has been shown already

It has been shown. It seems we agree that the "one in the world" in John 1 is not Jesus then. Case closed on that point.

God created by and through and for Jesus. The Deity in Christ that created remains the Fathers. Jesus in the Father and the Father in Him.
None of those reference scriptures you gave mean just the church. They show Christ as a craftsman in the beginning in regard to the creation of all things.

All things being made through the image of God is not a Biblical doctrine. God isn't called the image of God. Yes, it refers to the church. It all began at the cross.

Colossians 1
15The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16For in Him all things were created, things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities. All things were created through Him and for Him.

17He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. 18And He is the head of the body, the church; He is the beginning and firstborn from among the dead, so that in all things He may have preeminence. 19For God was pleased to have all His fullness dwell in Him, 20and through Him to reconcile to Himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through the blood of His cross.

 

[Randy]

An it according to 1 John 1:1-2

They saw an it?
The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it.

Didn't you read: the disciples were not there at the literal beginning of creation to see, hear, or touch anything. This refers to the beginning the ministry of Jesus... after he was born.

As I stated John is still referring to Jesus as that life, the eternal life who was with the Father in the beginning.
The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it.

Correct.


That has never been my position.


Sorry, had to laugh that you actually asked that.


You're trying to escape the truth by projecting something into the scripture that isn't there.


And the Spirit of Christ isn't a person. It refers to an anointing.

The Spirit of Christ isn't a person? Is the Spirit of Christ in a believer Christ in us? Houdini theology- trying to find a way of escape to fit your theology.

A Bible verse about the messiah anointing applying to other people is not irrelevant.


Not "all" we are referring specifically to the nature of God.


It has been shown. It seems we agree that the "one in the world" in John 1 is not Jesus then. Case closed on that point.


All things being made through the image of God is not a Biblical doctrine. God isn't called the image of God. Yes, it refers to the church. It all began at the cross.

All things made through Jesus who is the image of the invisible God is stated scripture.

Colossians 1
15The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16For in Him all things were created, things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities. All things were created through Him and for Him.

17He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. 18And He is the head of the body, the church; He is the beginning and firstborn from among the dead, so that in all things He may have preeminence. 19For God was pleased to have all His fullness dwell in Him, 20and through Him to reconcile to Himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through the blood of His cross.

He is before all things and has that preeminence in regard to the creation as well. Vs 18 So that in all things He may have the preeminence.

 

[Runningman]

They saw an it?
The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it.

Pretty much. Round about way of saying God used and it to create a man.

As I stated John is still referring to Jesus as that life, the eternal life who was with the Father in the beginning.
The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it.

Once again, Jesus is a he and the "logos" is an it. John was just referring to the eternal life that was with the Father (an it and not God) manifesting as a man.

God's word (the logos) are the words of life. God used His words of life, spoke, and gave life.

John 12
49I have not spoken on My own, but the Father who sent Me has commanded Me what to say and how to say it. 50And I know that His command leads to eternal life. So I speak exactly what the Father has told Me to say.”

The Spirit of Christ isn't a person? Is the Spirit of Christ in a believer Christ in us? Houdini theology- trying to find a way of escape to fit your theology.

"Christ" isn't Jesus' name. Maybe that needs to be said. It refers to an anointing that God gave him. Yes, Jesus is a glorified man and the example of what is attainable by someone anointed by God. All of that talk about taking up the cross, walking in his steps, suffering with him, doing greater works than him, reigning with him, etc were literal.

I would also consider what Paul said. We don't literally become the man Jesus, but we can mature into the "Christ" anointing.

Ephesians 4
13until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God, as we mature to the full measure of the stature of Christ.

14Then we will no longer be infants, tossed about by the waves and carried around by every wind of teaching and by the clever cunning of men in their deceitful scheming. 15Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will in all things grow up into Christ Himself, who is the head. 16From Him the whole body, fitted and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up in love through the work of each individual part.

All things made through Jesus who is the image of the invisible God is stated scripture.

Not according to Scripture. Colossians 1:15-20 refers to the context of the church. Same with 1 John 1:1-2., Hebrews 1:2, etc.

He is before all things and has that preeminence in regard to the creation as well. Vs 18 So that in all things He may have the preeminence.

No. Jesus is a human and having some sort of pre-existence isn't a Biblical doctrine. As we have already gone over, Jesus didn't say or do anything prior to his birth because he didn't exist, isn't God, etc.

Paul is exaggerating. He did it again later in the same chapter or do you accept that every. single. last. person. in the world had the gospel preached to them?

Colossians 1
23if indeed you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope of the gospel you heard, which has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.

 

[Randy]

Pretty much. Round about way of saying God used and it to create a man.

Thats not John's testimony. Thats your testimony.
Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever.
No matter what is posted in regard to the Son who was in the beginning with the Father you deny or explain away.
I have nothing new to give.
We disagree.

 

[Runningman]

Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever.

Then he is forever not God.

We disagree.

Yes we do disagree. I have no problem with that.

 

[Runningman]

Jesus never changes:

​

Hebrews 13​

8Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.​

Jesus is a man:

1 Timothy 2​

5For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,​

God does not change:

Malachi 3​

6“Because I, the LORD, do not change,​

God is not a man:

Numbers 23​

19God is not a man, that He should lie,​

or a son of man, that He should change His mind.​

Sola scriptura: Jesus is forever a man. God is forever not a man. Therefore, Jesus is not God.

 

[GodsGrace]

Jesus never changes:

​

Hebrews 13​

8Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.​

Jesus is a man:

1 Timothy 2​

5For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,​

God does not change:

Malachi 3​

6“Because I, the LORD, do not change,​

God is not a man:

Numbers 23​

19God is not a man, that He should lie,​

or a son of man, that He should change His mind.​

Sola scriptura: Jesus is forever a man. God is forever not a man. Therefore, Jesus is not God.

You don't understand the hypoststic union.

Can a man forgive sin?
Can a man raise a girl from the dead?
Can a man redeem mankind?

 

[Runningman]

You don't understand the hypoststic union.

Where did the Bible ever say there is a hypostatic union? Paul wrote away the idea in Philippians 2.

Can a man forgive sin?

They can if God gives them the authority to.

Matt 9
5Which is easier: to say, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Get up and walk?’ 6But so that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins...” Then He said to the paralytic, “Get up, pick up your mat, and go home.” 7And the man got up and went home.

8When the crowds saw this, they were filled with awe and glorified God, who had given such authority to men.

Can a man raise a girl from the dead?

They can if God gives them the power to.

Acts 2
22Men of Israel, listen to this message: Jesus of Nazareth was a man certified by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs, which God did among you through Him, as you yourselves know.

Can a man redeem mankind?

They can if they are God's chosen servant and messiah, designated to do such in God's plan and foreknowledge. Acts 2:23

 

[GodsGrace]

Where did the Bible ever say there is a hypostatic union? Paul wrote away the idea in Philippians 2.


They can if God gives them the authority to.

Matt 9
5Which is easier: to say, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Get up and walk?’ 6But so that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins...” Then He said to the paralytic, “Get up, pick up your mat, and go home.” 7And the man got up and went home.

8When the crowds saw this, they were filled with awe and glorified God, who had given such authority to men.

They can if God gives them the power to.

Acts 2
22Men of Israel, listen to this message: Jesus of Nazareth was a man certified by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs, which God did among you through Him, as you yourselves know.


They can if they are God's chosen servant and messiah, designated to do such in God's plan and foreknowledge. Acts 2:23

So is God just a man as you believe?
To what other MAN has God given such powers?