1 Jn 2:1-2 who does it apply to ?

[reba]

The correction for earlier post

do you see scripture in the op ?

Yes i do..

1 Jn 2:1-2

My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

John 3; 36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

There are the verses. In my opinion they say the opposite of your opinion

 

[reba]

I am no greek scholar but some things are simple looking up "any man" i see zero exclusion in the definition listed in Strong's

G5100
τίς
tis
tis
An enclitic indefinite pronoun; some or any person or object: - a (kind of), any (man, thing, thing at all), certain (thing), divers, he (every) man, one (X thing), ought, + partly, some (man, -body, -thing, -what), (+ that no-) thing, what (-soever), X wherewith, whom [-soever], whose ([-soever]).

Looking up "world' once again i do not read an exclusion
G2889
κόσμος
kosmos
kos'-mos
Probably from the base of G2865; orderly arrangement, that is, decoration; by implication the world (in a wide or narrow sense, including its inhabitants, literally or figuratively [morally]): - adorning, world.

 

[beloved57]

The reconciliation was made when Messiah died, but it does not take effect on an individual level until the individual repents and receives Messiah as Savior (2Co 5:20).

Those Christ died for were reconciled to God while they were enemies Rom 5:10!

 

[beloved57]

The correction for post #29

Yes i do..

1 Jn 2:1-2

My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

John 3; 36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

There are the verses. In my opinion they say the opposite of your opinion

How so? Do you understand my points ? Please explain.

 

[beloved57]

I am no greek scholar but some things are simple looking up "any man" i see zero exclusion in the definition listed in Strong's

G5100
τίς
tis
tis
An enclitic indefinite pronoun; some or any person or object: - a (kind of), any (man, thing, thing at all), certain (thing), divers, he (every) man, one (X thing), ought, + partly, some (man, -body, -thing, -what), (+ that no-) thing, what (-soever), X wherewith, whom [-soever], whose ([-soever]).

Looking up "world' once again i do not read an exclusion
G2889
κόσμος
kosmos
kos'-mos
Probably from the base of G2865; orderly arrangement, that is, decoration; by implication the world (in a wide or narrow sense, including its inhabitants, literally or figuratively [morally]): - adorning, world.

I am no greek scholar but some things are simple looking up "any man" i see zero exclusion in the definition listed in Strong's

G5100
τίς
tis
tis
An enclitic indefinite pronoun; some or any person or object: - a (kind of), any (man, thing, thing at all), certain (thing), divers, he (every) man, one (X thing), ought, + partly, some (man, -body, -thing, -what), (+ that no-) thing, what (-soever), X wherewith, whom [-soever], whose ([-soever]).

Looking up "world' once again i do not read an exclusion
G2889
κόσμος
kosmos
kos'-mos
Probably from the base of G2865; orderly arrangement, that is, decoration; by implication the world (in a wide or narrow sense, including its inhabitants, literally or figuratively [morally]): - adorning, world.

Again does 1Jn 2:1-2 say that Christ died for everyone in the World without exception ? Yes or No ?

 

[jocor]

That's a false statement. Those Christ died for were reconciled to God while they were enemies Rom 5:10!

Of course they were enemies. He died before they became believers in him. He made rconciliation for them when he died. According to 2Co 5:20, Paul is beseeching people to be reconciled to God AFTER Yeshua made the reconciliation through his death. Why? Because a person is not reconciled until they receive Yeshua as Savior. The reconciliation is available to them, but it only takes effect after faith comes.

 

[brother Paul]

No one passage is an island unto itself. One must take into account the whole council of God's word on a subject to understand a point or teaching for what it means. Christ's grace was extended to all as an offer for any who would receive Him but the passage in particular you referenced in the OP was speaking to those already born of His Spirit. One fact does not negate the other.

Only those who receive Him and are born from above become the children of God (not that the children of God receive Him and are those who will be born from above), but the offer was made even to those who choose to rebel and reject Him. God wills that all men would repent, but alas all will not. They like being their own lord (like Satan) and will to do as they determine good or evil. Those who will not receive Him have not received His Spirit in them and are none of His.

 

[brother Paul]

Again does 1Jn 2:1-2 say that Christ died for everyone in the World without exception ? Yes or No ?

No that passage does not but that does not negate that He did.

 

[beloved57]

Jocor

Because a person is not reconciled until they receive Yeshua as Savior.

Those Christ died for are reconciled to God by Christ death while they are enemies Rom 5:10!

 

[turnorburn]

We were reconciled to God when we were born again before that we looked like this in..

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

the wrath of God was abiding on us...

 

[beloved57]

We were reconciled to God when we were born again before that we looked like this in..

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

the wrath of God was abiding on us...

Those Christ died for were reconciled to God by His Death while they were enemies and not born again Rom 5:10.

 

[beloved57]

We were reconciled to God when we were born again before that we looked like this in..

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

the wrath of God was abiding on us...

Unbelievers that Christ died for are not under Gods Wrath, they were reconciled to God while they were enemies and unbelievers Rom 5:10. So Jn 3:36 can't apply to unbelievers Christ died for.

 

[turnorburn]

That's not what Jesus said he said: the wrath of God abides on all unbelievers.. can't be reconciled to God when your dead in your trespasses and sins...

 

[reba]

Again does 1Jn 2:1-2 say that Christ died for everyone in the World without exception ? Yes or No ?

The word exception is not in the verse . Therefor the questions does not make sense.
The Scripture simply says 2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Then it is impudent upon you to provide the scripture that says that He did not mean the whole world like He says because your word exception means nothing.

From your own post #15

 

[JohnDB]

View attachment 8767

Ive got some cleaning up to do...so everyone gets a timeout untill this thread is cleaned up.

 

[JohnDB]

OK...all cleaned up.
If you find one (or more) of your posts missing it is because it either broke one of the the Policies for this forum or responded in kind to a personal remark.

I highly recommend that you ALL review the rules.

 

[Deborah13]

That's a false statement. Those Christ died for were reconciled to God while they were enemies Rom 5:10!

Rom 5:10 for if, being enemies, we have been reconciled to God through the death of His Son, ......
2Co 5:18 And the all things are of God, who reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and did give to us [the Apostles] the ministration of the reconciliation,[the Gospel]

2Co 5:19 how that God was in Christ--a world reconciling to Himself, not reckoning to them their trespasses; and having put in us the word of the reconciliation,[the Gospel]
Joh_12:32 and I, if I may be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto myself.'

2Co 5:20 in behalf of Christ, then, we are ambassadors, as if God were calling through us, we beseech [call near], in behalf of Christ, `Be ye reconciled to God;'
Act_17:30 the times, indeed, therefore, of the ignorance God having overlooked, doth now command all men everywhere to reform, [repent]

Rom 5:10.....much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved in his life.

jocor pointed out 2 Corinthians 5:20 to you. And you ignored it.
Jesus Himself said, in John 12:32, that He would draw all men to Himself.

What do these verses say to you? It says to me that even though God reconciled Himself to the world through the death of His Son, all men must obey God's command to repent [Acts 17:30] and be reconciled to God [2 Co 5:20].

Accepting God's gift of salvation by grace, through faith, is not a self-righteous work. It could not be done without Jesus, by the Holy Spirit, drawing men unto Himself. But we see that we must accept it [be reconciled the God].

I could forgive someone who has harmed me, thus reconciling myself to them. But they could stand far off and not accept my forgiveness, (which is a self-righteous act), thus keeping them from reconciling themselves to me. So instead of 'drawing near' we would stay afar off from one another, never mending the broken relationship.

 

[jocor]

Those Christ died for are reconciled to God while they are enemies. Rom 5:10. They don't have any sins charged to them 2 Cor 5:19.

You took verse 19 out of context. Here is verse 20 as well;

2Co 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ (Messiah), reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
2Co 5:20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ (Messiah), as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.​

Please explain why Paul is telling people, who you say are already reconciled to God, to be reconciled to God.

As for unbelievers not having sins charged against them, the following all speak against that;

Acts 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
Acts 26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
Rom 6:6-7 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Col 2:11-13 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ (Messiah): Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
1Th 2:16 Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.
1Pe 4:18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?
Jude 1:15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

​

 

[beloved57]

You took verse 19 out of context. Here is verse 20 as well;

2Co 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ (Messiah), reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
2Co 5:20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ (Messiah), as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.​

Please explain why Paul is telling people, who you say are already reconciled to God, to be reconciled to God.

As for unbelievers not having sins charged against them, the following all speak against that;

Acts 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
Acts 26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
Rom 6:6-7 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Col 2:11-13 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ (Messiah): Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
1Th 2:16 Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.
1Pe 4:18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?
Jude 1:15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

​

People with sins charged against them can't be reconciled to God. 2 Cor 5:19. So sinners Christ died for are reconciled to God while they are enemies Rom 5:10.

 

[beloved57]

Rom 5:10 for if, being enemies, we have been reconciled to God through the death of His Son, ......
2Co 5:18 And the all things are of God, who reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and did give to us [the Apostles] the ministration of the reconciliation,[the Gospel]

2Co 5:19 how that God was in Christ--a world reconciling to Himself, not reckoning to them their trespasses; and having put in us the word of the reconciliation,[the Gospel]
Joh_12:32 and I, if I may be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto myself.'

2Co 5:20 in behalf of Christ, then, we are ambassadors, as if God were calling through us, we beseech [call near], in behalf of Christ, `Be ye reconciled to God;'
Act_17:30 the times, indeed, therefore, of the ignorance God having overlooked, doth now command all men everywhere to reform, [repent]

Rom 5:10.....much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved in his life.

jocor pointed out 2 Corinthians 5:20 to you. And you ignored it.
Jesus Himself said, in John 12:32, that He would draw all men to Himself.

What do these verses say to you? It says to me that even though God reconciled Himself to the world through the death of His Son, all men must obey God's command to repent [Acts 17:30] and be reconciled to God [2 Co 5:20].

Accepting God's gift of salvation by grace, through faith, is not a self-righteous work. It could not be done without Jesus, by the Holy Spirit, drawing men unto Himself. But we see that we must accept it [be reconciled the God].

I could forgive someone who has harmed me, thus reconciling myself to them. But they could stand far off and not accept my forgiveness, (which is a self-righteous act), thus keeping them from reconciling themselves to me. So instead of 'drawing near' we would stay afar off from one another, never mending the broken relationship.

Those sinners Christ died for were reconciled to God while they were enemies and unbelievers Rom 5:10, but that doesn't apply to all mankind without exception since many are under Gods Wrath and Condemnation John 3:18,36 !