1 John 1: Against self-justifying doctrine

[RBDERRICK]

1 John 1 is not just against sinners saying they have no sin, but is specifically about sinners believing they have no sin condemned by God, because they name His name.

Jeremiah 2 shows this is the main source of the Lord's rebuke in 1 John 1:

Yet thou sayest, Because I am innocent, surely his anger shall turn from me. Behold, I will plead with thee, because thou sayest, I have not sinned.

It is God still pleading against His own unrepentant people beleiving God is not angry with their sinning, like that of the heathen.

The priests said not, Where is the LORD? and they that handle the law knew me not: the pastors also transgressed against me, and the prophets prophesied by Baal, and walked after things that do not profit.

Wherefore I will yet plead with you, saith the LORD, and with your children's children will I plead.

And we see the source of such hypocrisy is by changing the doctrine of the Lord to justify themselves in their transgressions.

1 John 1 is not a mandate from God for those walking in the light, to also be sinners. It is the old pleading of God against those walking in darkness in His name, who also say they are in the light.

How canst thou say, I am not polluted, I have not gone after Baalim? see thy way in the valley, know what thou hast done:

Yet thou sayest, Because I am innocent, surely his anger shall turn from me.

1 John 1 first preaches the doctrine of Christ to walk as He walked in the light, and then rejects doctrinal self-justification while walking in darkness.

For though thou wash thee with nitre, and take thee much soap, yet thine iniquity is marked before me, saith the Lord GOD.

 

[Josef]

1 John 1 is not just against sinners saying they have no sin, but is specifically about sinners believing they have no sin condemned by God, because they name His name.

Jeremiah 2 shows this is the main source of the Lord's rebuke in 1 John 1:

Yet thou sayest, Because I am innocent, surely his anger shall turn from me. Behold, I will plead with thee, because thou sayest, I have not sinned.

It is God still pleading against His own unrepentant people beleiving God is not angry with their sinning, like that of the heathen.

The priests said not, Where is the LORD? and they that handle the law knew me not: the pastors also transgressed against me, and the prophets prophesied by Baal, and walked after things that do not profit.

Wherefore I will yet plead with you, saith the LORD, and with your children's children will I plead.

And we see the source of such hypocrisy is by changing the doctrine of the Lord to justify themselves in their transgressions.

1 John 1 is not a mandate from God for those walking in the light, to also be sinners. It is the old pleading of God against those walking in darkness in His name, who also say they are in the light.

How canst thou say, I am not polluted, I have not gone after Baalim? see thy way in the valley, know what thou hast done:

Yet thou sayest, Because I am innocent, surely his anger shall turn from me.

1 John 1 first preaches the doctrine of Christ to walk as He walked in the light, and then rejects doctrinal self-justification while walking in darkness.

For though thou wash thee with nitre, and take thee much soap, yet thine iniquity is marked before me, saith the Lord GOD.

Hey All,
Turn the page.
What does chapter two teach?

1 John 2:1-3 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

Believers sin. If chapter one is teaching sinless perfection, why is John giving us "little children" instructions on how to resolve the sin?
If chapter one teaches sinless perfection, why do I need an advocate?

And by the way, who said it was a mandate for sin?
You know that's a strawman argument.

Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz

 

[RBDERRICK]

Believers sin.

Your kind of believer certainly does by your own boasting admission.

You minister sin to all believers like you, and the Bible ministers sin to no one.

If chapter one is teaching sinless perfection,

It isn't, and has nothing to do with 1 John 1 rebuking them that justify their continued sinning.

Instead of acknowledging the truth and repenting, an old lie against the law of the Lord is brought in to justify continued unrepentance.

The Lord has never commanded nor taught God's eternal perfection on earth.

Sinning is not imperfection, and imperfection is not sinning. Nor is sinning against God a 'mistake' on earth, but a wilfull act of disobedience to God's word.

Sinning is doing unrighteous works of the flesh from a corrupt heart of lust.

why is John giving us "little children" instructions on how to resolve the sin?

He does. Sin not. Same as Jesus. Go and sin no more.

God's commanded resolution for continued hardened sinning, is to repent of the sinning and trespassing for Jesus' sake. It's not by the unrepentant counting their works of iniquity as just being 'imperfect'.

1 John 1 is against self-justified unrepented sinning. 1 John 2 is for them that do not justify any sinning, but repent for Jesus' sake.

 

[Josef]

Your kind of believer certainly does by your own boasting admission.

You minister sin to all believers like you, and the Bible ministers sin to no one.



It isn't, and has nothing to do with 1 John 1 rebuking them that justify their continued sinning.

Instead of acknowledging the truth and repenting, an old lie against the law of the Lord is brought in to justify continued unrepentance.

The Lord has never commanded nor taught God's eternal perfection on earth.

Sinning is not imperfection, and imperfection is not sinning. Nor is sinning against God a 'mistake' on earth, but a wilfull act of disobedience to God's word.

Sinning is doing unrighteous works of the flesh from a corrupt heart of lust.



He does. Sin not. Same as Jesus. Go and sin no more.

God's commanded resolution for continued hardened sinning, is to repent of the sinning and trespassing for Jesus' sake. It's not by the unrepentant counting their works of iniquity as just being 'imperfect'.

1 John 1 is against self-justified unrepented sinning. 1 John 2 is for them that do not justify any sinning, but repent for Jesus' sake.

Hey All,
RBDERRICK, I am not going to insult you in return.
I choose to speak the truth with love.
The letter of 1John rwas written to believers.
It does not support self-justified unrepentant sin. We agree.

1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

If 1John is written to believers, who is the "we" in verse 8?
We means at least two, and includes the speaker of "we."
Does John include himself as part of the "we?"
Yes.
Are you a part of the "we?"
I know I am.
John is speaking to me.
How do I know?
I believe, and I sin.
That is not boastful.
I am ashamed to admit it.
I try to be perfect as Jesus commanded us.
But I cannot do it.
That is my honesty.
Do you believe John was boasting about his sin?
Or was he being honest?

1John 2:1 reinforces Jesus' command.
"My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. . . . "

What are the very next words in the verse.
" . . . And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:"

Why did John write this?
Is he boasting?
Is he"any man?"
1 John is written to believers.
Are you a believer?
I am.
I am "any man."
Is it written to you and me?
I know it's written to me.
The grace of God endures with me.
I live in, and because of, His grace.
I didn't stop needing it after I received Jesus.
I confess my sins that I might be cleansed from all unrighteousness.
Paul starts his letters by asking for grace and peace to the believers to whom he is writing.
Why do believers need grace?
Believers sin.
I hope you understand what I am saying.

Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz

 

[for_his_glory]

We are all born with a sin nature/nature to sin and all have sinned and fallen short of God's glory, that's a fact. But, to those who are of Christ need to get up every morning and crucify this flesh and walk in the Spirit so we do not fulfill the lust of the flesh. No one has to sin like it's some kind of command to do so as it's a freewill choice to fall to the temptation to sin.

Even a Spiritually born again child of God will mess up at times as we are still mortal living in this fleshly body where the sin nature dwells. Grace does not give us a license to sin, but when we do we have an intercessor (Christ Jesus) before the Father who makes intercession for us and forgives our sin when we repent of them. There will always be a struggle between the flesh and the Spirit and sometimes the flesh will win the battle, but never the war.

Galatians 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

Romans 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. 2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Galatians 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

 

[RBDERRICK]

RBDERRICK, I am not going to insult you in return.

If agreeing with you is an insult, then you insult yourself.

It does not support self-justified unrepentant sin. We agree.

None of the Bible supports sinning. 1 John 1 specifically rebukes justifying ourselves as unrepented sinners.

1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

If 1John is written to believers, who is the "we" in verse 8?

The unrepented sinners, that say they are not sinning: Hypocrites.

Are you a part of the "we?"

Not the 'you' believers that are sinning.

I know I am.

That's been established. Bragging about it doesn't help your sinfulness.

John is speaking to me.

If you say so. Saying you are on the light while walking in darkness. is the lie rebuked by the John.

If you repent of your hardened sinning, then you also can be given help of grace to walk in the light and not in darkness at all.

How do I know?
I believe, and I sin.

Once again, we know you believe in sinning, and openly minister your sinning to others.

That is not boastful.
I am ashamed to admit it.

Then your shame knows no bounds, since you shamefully admit it every chance you get.

Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility…Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility,

I try to be perfect as Jesus commanded us.
But I cannot do it.

That's because the will of man doesn't work with God.

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Repent of you sinning for Jesus' sake, and God will also give you His promised NT pure heart and blameless life in Christ Jesus.

That is my honesty.

Being honest about being an ongoing sinner, is not repentance and conversion to God.

But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

Do you believe John was boasting about his sin?

No. Nowhere does any apostle ever speak like you unrepented sinners, saying "I am sinning". "I can't stop sinning."

Much less boast about it.

Or was he being honest?

John and all repented saints know we ought walk as Jesus walked. But if we do sin, then we certainly ought not say we have no sin, as though God does not judge and condemn us like other sinners.

1John 2:1 reinforces Jesus' command.
"My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. . . . "

True. Which you shamefully proclaim you still do, because you still repent not.

What are the very next words in the verse.
" . . . And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:"

True. If any man anywhere repents by commandment of God from sinning, then Jesus is their Advocate for forgiveness and washing away from all sinning.

And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

I am "any man."

Yes, I know already. You are any man that continues sinning. Just like any man sinning on earth. Congratulations.

The grace of God endures with me.
Paul starts his letters by asking for grace and peace to the believers to whom he is writing.
Why do believers need grace?

For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

If any man will repent of sinning to walk as Jesus walked, then we need His grace to be like Him and sin not in time of temptation.

I confess my sins that I might be cleansed from all unrighteousness.

And here is why you continue sinning, and never remain cleansed from all righteousness:

Because you believe in being in the light, covered by grace, and no more condemned, even while still sinning with the world.

This is the dishonesty that 1 John 1 rebukes. No man is walking in the light and the darkness at the same time.

Believers sin.
I hope you understand what I am saying.

You can keep saying you believe in sinning all you wish. But if you think I'm going to recieve your ministry of sin for myself, then you're barking up the wrong tree.

Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.

Keep walking everybody.

Everybody is walking on earth. Many in darkness, few in the light.

1 John 1 is special rebuke for those walking in darkness saying they are in the light.

I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

 

[RBDERRICK]

We are all born with a sin nature/nature to sin and all have sinned and fallen short of God's glory, that's a fact.

All men have sinned is a true fact. Man created and made sinners by Christ from the womb is a factual lie.

I only take the Bible is true fact.

But, to those who are of Christ need to get up every morning and crucify this flesh and walk in the Spirit so we do not fulfill the lust of the flesh.

True fact. We do so by grace that helps usto sin not by any temptation.

For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

No one has to sin like it's some kind of command to do so as it's a freewill choice to fall to the temptation to sin.

True fact again.

Every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death

Even a Spiritually born again child of God will mess up at times

Factual lie. The Bible preaches if we sin, not we will sin.

as we are still mortal living in this fleshly body where the sin nature dwells.

Factual lie. The go-to doctrinal excuse for sinning with the flesh, is that it's the body's fault.

As if the body made by Christ is responsible for being sinned with.

It's the Christian liberal version of blaming the gun, and not the shooter.

Grace does not give us a license to sin,

Man does by man's grace that is doctrinal cover for sinning.

God's grace is only for helping not to sin. Not for help not to be condemned while sinning.

but when we do

Man's when for sinful man, not God's if for obedient sons.

we have an intercessor (Christ Jesus) before the Father who makes intercession for us and forgives our sin when we repent of them.

True. If we repent after the sinning, not while doing the sinning.

There will always be a struggle between the flesh and the Spirit

In this life yes, even as with the Son in the flesh.

and sometimes the flesh will win the battle,

With the double hearted and disobedient yes, unlike the Son and His faithful brethren.

but never the war.

The fight is lost for every man while sinning. And the war is lost by any man sinning unto the grave.

The war is only won by obedient sons, that fight as Jesus and sin not unto the end.

Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Galatians 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

True. And if we walk after the flesh, we are not in the Spirit and none of Christ's.

And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

Whosoever abiding in him is not sinning: whosoever is sinning hath not seen him, neither known him.

Galatians 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

True. The obedient sons that continue in the faith of Jesus and walk in the Spirit, shall not sin with the flesh.

Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

The doctrine that all sons will sin and fall into darkness, the lie of disobedient children that justify their own double hearts.

It's only factually true for themselves, not for all.

Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee.

Hide only the factual truth of God's words in your heart, and cast out the lies of unrepented sinful man.

Then you may wholly repent of all your sinning for Jesus' sake, and begin to preach if we sin, not when we will sin.

You will be freer to do so by first casting out the lie, that Christ makes all men's bodies with sin in them, so that He tempts man to sin with their own body.

Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death

 

[for_his_glory]

All men have sinned is a true fact. Man created and made sinners by Christ from the womb is a factual lie.

I only take the Bible is true fact.


True fact. We do so by grace that helps usto sin not by any temptation.

For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.



True fact again.

Every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death

Factual lie. The Bible preaches if we sin, not we will sin.



Factual lie. The go-to doctrinal excuse for sinning with the flesh, is that it's the body's fault.

As if the body made by Christ is responsible for being sinned with.

It's the Christian liberal version of blaming the gun, and not the shooter.




Man does by man's grace that is doctrinal cover for sinning.

God's grace is only for helping not to sin. Not for help not to be condemned while sinning.



Man's when for sinful man, not God's if for obedient sons.




True. If we repent after the sinning, not while doing the sinning.



In this life yes, even as with the Son in the flesh.




With the double hearted and disobedient yes, unlike the Son and His faithful brethren.


The fight is lost for every man while sinning. And the war is lost by any man sinning unto the grave.

The war is only won by obedient sons, that fight as Jesus and sin not unto the end.

Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.



True. And if we walk after the flesh, we are not in the Spirit and none of Christ's.

And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

Whosoever abiding in him is not sinning: whosoever is sinning hath not seen him, neither known him.



True. The obedient sons that continue in the faith of Jesus and walk in the Spirit, shall not sin with the flesh.

Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

The doctrine that all sons will sin and fall into darkness, the lie of disobedient children that justify their own double hearts.

It's only factually true for themselves, not for all.

Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee.

Hide only the factual truth of God's words in your heart, and cast out the lies of unrepented sinful man.

Then you may wholly repent of all your sinning for Jesus' sake, and begin to preach if we sin, not when we will sin.

You will be freer to do so by first casting out the lie, that Christ makes all men's bodies with sin in them, so that He tempts man to sin with their own body.

Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death

We will agree in part and disagree in part. You have a good evening.

 

[Josef]

If agreeing with you is an insult, then you insult yourself.


None of the Bible supports sinning. 1 John 1 specifically rebukes justifying ourselves as unrepented sinners.




The unrepented sinners, that say they are not sinning: Hypocrites.



Not the 'you' believers that are sinning.





That's been established. Bragging about it doesn't help your sinfulness.




If you say so. Saying you are on the light while walking in darkness. is the lie rebuked by the John.

If you repent of your hardened sinning, then you also can be given help of grace to walk in the light and not in darkness at all.




Once again, we know you believe in sinning, and openly minister your sinning to others.





Then your shame knows no bounds, since you shamefully admit it every chance you get.

Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility…Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility,






That's because the will of man doesn't work with God.

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Repent of you sinning for Jesus' sake, and God will also give you His promised NT pure heart and blameless life in Christ Jesus.



Being honest about being an ongoing sinner, is not repentance and conversion to God.

But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.



No. Nowhere does any apostle ever speak like you unrepented sinners, saying "I am sinning". "I can't stop sinning."

Much less boast about it.

John and all repented saints know we ought walk as Jesus walked. But if we do sin, then we certainly ought not say we have no sin, as though God does not judge and condemn us like other sinners.




True. Which you shamefully proclaim you still do, because you still repent not.


True. If any man anywhere repents by commandment of God from sinning, then Jesus is their Advocate for forgiveness and washing away from all sinning.

And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.




Yes, I know already. You are any man that continues sinning. Just like any man sinning on earth. Congratulations.





For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

If any man will repent of sinning to walk as Jesus walked, then we need His grace to be like Him and sin not in time of temptation.




And here is why you continue sinning, and never remain cleansed from all righteousness:

Because you believe in being in the light, covered by grace, and no more condemned, even while still sinning with the world.

This is the dishonesty that 1 John 1 rebukes. No man is walking in the light and the darkness at the same time.





You can keep saying you believe in sinning all you wish. But if you think I'm going to recieve your ministry of sin for myself, then you're barking up the wrong tree.

Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.



Everybody is walking on earth. Many in darkness, few in the light.

1 John 1 is special rebuke for those walking in darkness saying they are in the light.

I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

Hey All,
RBDERRICK, please consider this?

"If agreeing with you is an insult, then you insult yourself.


None of the Bible supports sinning. 1 John 1 specifically rebukes justifying ourselves as unrepentant sinners.

Not the 'you' believers that are sinning." Quote from RBDERRICK

You are correct. John does rebuke unrepentant sinners. We agree.
1 John can, and does, serve another purpose. It is written to believers who still sin from time to time. And that is all of us.
Whether you agree with 1 John or not, that is what it says.
This is correct as well.
John includes himself as a repentant sinner.
So did Paul in his letters.
These are correct statements as well.

That is what makes the Christian life possible for me. John and Paul showed me, with their own words, they were sinners saved by grace, through faith in Jesus.
Just like me.
Even so, sinners like John and Paul, saved by grace through faith in Jesus, are saved and still make mistakes. They still needed repentance.
I repent every day before I rest. I want to keep my relationship with God as pure as I can.

Please consider this:
Galatians 2:11-16 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.
For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.
And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation.
But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?
We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles,
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Paul called out Peter, a believer, who made a mistake; and by mistake, I mean sin. Peter, an apostle was not walking uprightly before God according to the truth of the gospel. That's pretty clear.
Believers sin.

Please, consider this:
Every time we say the Lord's prayer, we ask for forgiveness.

Matthew 6:9-14 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread.
And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

After Jesus finished the prayer, on what did He focus?
Believers need forgiveness beyond salvation. Why?
Believers make mistakes. Making mistakes does not make me unrepentant. Ignorance of my mistakes would.

Finally, consider this:
Was Peter a believer when he denied he knew Jesus? Three times! How many times does it take to become habitual sin? Obviously more than once. Does that not classify Peter as a habitual sinner?

That's a pretty big mistake. Left unrepentant, that is the unforgivable sin.
Peter was a believer who just denied his Savior. Peter, who earlier in his relationship with Jesus said this:

John 6:68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.

Was Peter in need of forgiveness?
You betcha! (Anybody remember Emily Latilla?)
You know some people say that is why Peter ran to Christ's tomb. Obviously to see what the ladies told him. But also to ask forgiveness.

Did Jesus forgive Peter?
Oh yeah! (That was my Randy "Macho Man" Savage impression.)
Jesus makes it so easy.

John 21:15-19 So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs.
He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep.
He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.
Verily, verily, I say unto thee, When thou wast young, thou girdedst thyself, and walkedst whither thou wouldest: but when thou shalt be old, thou shalt stretch forth thy hands, and another shall gird thee, and carry thee whither thou wouldest not.
This spake he, signifying by what death he should glorify God. And when he had spoken this, he saith unto him, Follow me.

Is this not our example?

That said, I need to forgive you.
If you noticed, Jesus also placed a condition upon forgiveness as a believer. We have to forgive others to be forgiven ourselves.
I have to forgive you so that I am forgiven.
And so I do.
I forgive you.

I am not going to pick apart your words. You may pick mine apart all you like.

Isaiah 43:25 I, even I, am he that blotteth out thy transgressions for mine own sake, and will not remember thy sins.

This is how much God forgives me. This is my example.
And It's Awesome!
Isn't it interesting that when we forgive others we forgive ourselves?

Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz

 

[Free]

You will be freer to do so by first casting out the lie, that Christ makes all men's bodies with sin in them, so that He tempts man to sin with their own body.

Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death

If people aren’t born with a sinful nature, where does a person’s “own lust” come from?

 

[Hopeful 2]

1 John 1 is not just against sinners saying they have no sin, but is specifically about sinners believing they have no sin condemned by God, because they name His name.

Jeremiah 2 shows this is the main source of the Lord's rebuke in 1 John 1:

Yet thou sayest, Because I am innocent, surely his anger shall turn from me. Behold, I will plead with thee, because thou sayest, I have not sinned.

It is God still pleading against His own unrepentant people beleiving God is not angry with their sinning, like that of the heathen.

The priests said not, Where is the LORD? and they that handle the law knew me not: the pastors also transgressed against me, and the prophets prophesied by Baal, and walked after things that do not profit.

Wherefore I will yet plead with you, saith the LORD, and with your children's children will I plead.

And we see the source of such hypocrisy is by changing the doctrine of the Lord to justify themselves in their transgressions.

1 John 1 is not a mandate from God for those walking in the light, to also be sinners. It is the old pleading of God against those walking in darkness in His name, who also say they are in the light.

How canst thou say, I am not polluted, I have not gone after Baalim? see thy way in the valley, know what thou hast done:

Yet thou sayest, Because I am innocent, surely his anger shall turn from me.

1 John 1 first preaches the doctrine of Christ to walk as He walked in the light, and then rejects doctrinal self-justification while walking in darkness.

For though thou wash thee with nitre, and take thee much soap, yet thine iniquity is marked before me, saith the Lord GOD.

Well written.
Only those walking in the light-God have anything at all to do with God.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Hey All,
Turn the page.
What does chapter two teach?

1 John 2:1-3 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

Believers sin. If chapter one is teaching sinless perfection, why is John giving us "little children" instructions on how to resolve the sin?

John's instructions are for the "any man" of verse 1.
The "any man" is the sinner who has not yet come to the Advocate for his redemption.

If chapter one teaches sinless perfection, why do I need an advocate?
And by the way, who said it was a mandate for sin?
You know that's a strawman argument.
Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz

1 John 2 reaches how to identify who knows God..."And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked." (1 John 2:3-6)

 

[Free]

1 John 1 is not just against sinners saying they have no sin, but is specifically about sinners believing they have no sin condemned by God, because they name His name.

What do you mean by "sinners"? Precision is needed here.

1 John 1 is not a mandate from God for those walking in the light, to also be sinners.

Of course it isn't a mandate; a mandate is a command, is it not? Why would you argue that God isn't issuing a command for believers to be sinners, is someone making that argument?

It is the old pleading of God against those walking in darkness in His name, who also say they are in the light.

Would it not also, and perhaps more significantly, include those who think they're saved but they're not? Is it not a warning for all who profess to be believers to take stock of how they're living?

1 John 1 first preaches the doctrine of Christ to walk as He walked in the light, and then rejects doctrinal self-justification while walking in darkness.

Yes, it does the former, but where does it do the latter?

 

[Josef]

Hey All,

1 Timothy 1:15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

Notice the present tense of the verse.

" . . . of whom I am chief."

Am.

Paul considered himself, even though he was an apostle, even though he was a teacher, even though he was an evangelist, chief of sinners.

How can this be?

Paul was honest in his personal assessment.
Isn't this a major reason we believe what Paul wrote?

Because Paul, as an apostle, a teacher, and an evangelist is honest about himself, we can believe that he is being honest with the other subjects he writes about.

I can follow a person like this because I can relate to his personal assessment.

Living in grace never stops.

Why?

Because believers still need it.

Why do I, as a believer, still continuously need grace?

The answer is obvious if we are students of God's Word.

I, as a believer, still sin.

Finally, how does anyone twist Paul's honesty, the honesty that I emulate, as a proud and boastful statement?

Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz

 

[RBDERRICK]

What do you mean by "sinners"? Precision is needed here.

Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous. For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish.

Sinners are all those sinning against God, and are the ungodly.

All sinning is unrighteousness:

Whosoever is committing sin transgresses also the law: for sinning is the transgression of the law.

All sinning is doing unrighteousness and transgressing the law of Christ.

And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

And you, having been dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

All sinners are the ungodly, the unrighteous, the trespassers, and the transgressors against God.

Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind...

Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which are doing such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Sinners are not inheriting the kingdom of God in the resurrection of the dead.

Of course it isn't a mandate; a mandate is a command, is it not?

Yes it is a command of God to acknowledge our sin, if we sin against Him.

For I acknowledge my transgressions: and my sin is ever before me.

Only acknowledge thine iniquity, that thou hast transgressed against the LORD thy God, and hast scattered thy ways to the strangers under every green tree, and ye have not obeyed my voice, saith the LORD.

Man cannot repent of sinning, if we do not first acknowledge it as sinning against God.

Why would you argue that God isn't issuing a command for believers to be sinners, is someone making that argument?

You've never heard of any believer saying 1 John 1 is declaring we must all say we have sin in our lives?

If it is condemned as a lie not to, then it is by commandment.

If it is a command to all believers, then it is a command to sin in our lives.

The corruption of 1 John 1 produces the lie that God commands His believers to sin. Otherwise, we could not honestly say we have sin in our lives.

Would it not also, and perhaps more significantly, include those who think they're saved but they're not?

Absolutely.

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that is doing the will of my Father which is in heaven.

However, 1 John 1 specifically rejects any doctrine of believers, that says they are saved by their own faith alone, and need not be justified by their works.

Is it not a warning for all who profess to be believers to take stock of how they're living?

No. That warning is to depart from doing iniquity, if we name His name.

1 John 1 is a rebuke to a doctrinal lie of sinful believers.

Have you never heard some sinful Christians say they are in the light now, even when they sin in darkness?

Or that believes still sin in their lives, but are no more condemned by it?

Yes, it does the former, but where does it do the latter?

By saying we are in the light with Jesus, while walking in darkness with sin.

And by saying we have sin, but our sinning is no more condemned with the world.

It's the naturally corrupt doctrinal product of being saved and justified with Christ by faith alone, separate and apart from how we are living.

 

[RBDERRICK]

Hey All,

1 Timothy 1:15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

Notice the present tense of the verse.

" . . . of whom I am chief."

Some sinful believers have wholly given themselves to the gospel and apostle of sinning the most.

Unrepented sinners can call everyone else a sinful child of the devil all they wish. It doesn't take away their own judgment of sinning with the devil.

That includes wresting Scripture from context to turn the truth of God into a lie:

Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief. And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.

This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

Before Paul repented and was converted to Jesus Christ, He certainly was an unbelieving persecutor of Christian saints and destroyer of the faith of God.

Not after and while being a called apostle preaching the faith of Jesus Christ.

That current work is reserved for unrepented sinners naming Christ, that openly minister as much sin as possible to the churches of God.

For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.

And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies.

Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you; Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls:

Paul considered himself, even though he was an apostle, even though he was a teacher, even though he was an evangelist, chief of sinners.

Some unrepented sinners will falsely accuse anyone of being great sinners like themselves, in order to justify themselves.

They accused Jesus of being a blasphemous sinner too,

And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not. Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?

So why not also His apostles?

It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of his household?

I'll not be repenting of doing righteousness, in order to follow the chiefest sinner of a sinful religion.

For godly sorrow worketh repentance unto salvation not to be repented of:

How can this be?

For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, declaring good and evil.

Paul was honest in his personal assessment.

Being an honest chief sinner is better than a self-justifying one, but it's still being a hardened enemy of God.

I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

Neither the great sinner Paul nor his sinful Christ, is the apostle Paul and Jesus Christ of the Bible.

Living in grace never stops.

Sinning in man's grace stops at the grave.

Why do I, as a believer, still continuously need grace?

Because you need to continuously justify your sinning by your grace?

You could just do as God commands and repent of your sinning, and then you can have the abundant grace of God to help you sin not.

But then, the unrepentant don't want help from enjoying their sinning.

But after thy hardness and unrepentant heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;

Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked.

Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

The answer is obvious if we are students of God's Word.

Yes, it is.

But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies.

Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you; Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls:

Students of the Bible come in many forms,

For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.

And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

But only doers of the word are justified with God.

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

I've even heard some students of the Bible say that sinning against God is the doing the will of God, because God creates all men sinners from the womb.

Some hardened sinners will simply go to any foolish length to justify their continued sinning against God. They'll accuse Jesus of being a blasphemer, His apostles of being the worst of sinners, and sinning against God is doing His will...

How can this be? Because there is no bound to the depths to which some people will go to justify themselves rather than repent.

But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan.

And also, because even after th flood, some childishly still think there is safety in the most numbers.

I, as a believer, still sin.

Yes, I've seen that elsewhere. You never fail to proclaim it as often and loud as possible.

It's nothing new under the sun, that in time even the most shameful thing loses any sense of shame.

These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.

Finally, how does anyone twist Paul's honesty, the honesty that I emulate, as a proud and boastful statement?

No one is doubting either your apostle or you are being dishonest in your proud and boastful statement.

It's when honest people keep hearing others cotninually declaring what great sinners they are, that their claims of shame become seriously doubtful.

As it's said, People can only work up so much emotion about the same thing over and over again, until it just becomes dull and boring.

I.e.: It just becomes old hat.

"Methinks thou protestest too much..."

Keep walking everybody.

Pretty insensitive toward the crippled and bed-ridden.

They however can still walk in the light with Jesus, by not sinning in a chair or bed.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Some sinful believers have wholly given themselves to the gospel and apostle of sinning the most.

"Sinful believer" is an oxymoron.
If you beleive that God is going to destroy the wicked on the last day, you will quit committing sin.

 

[Anaphora]

Epistle John 3:8 . He that commits sin is of the devil; for the devil sins from the beginning.

3:9. Who so ever is born of God does not sin; for His seed remains in him; and he can't sin, because he is born of God.

Were talking difference between Christian sinners and habitual sinners.

In the flesh, children of light will sin. They repent and try not to sin. They study sound doctrine and avoid false teachings.

Habitual sinners are children of darkness. They refuse to repent and hate the truth. This group is following satan. They hate the light.

3:10 . In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil:

We see the distinction between Christian sinners and habitual sinners.

The habitual sinners don't care about God and wont repent.

2 Peter 2:3. The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some men count slackness; but is long suffering to us, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Reality is, some people are not going to repent. This group won't give up satan as thier king.
Were talking about reprobates. This group is not going to conform to God's standard.

1 Peter 4:18. And if the righteous are scarcely saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

Reprobates are going to sheol, called hell. It's holding place for the spirtualty dead or wicked until judgement day. This group is waiting for the hammer to drop on judgement day. Get the picture.

Proverbs 11:31. Behold, the righteous shall be recompense in the earth ; Much more the wicked and the sinner.

Again, the group is habitual sinners, which are reprobates. On judgement day. This group will declare satan their king. Jesus is in position to have to March this group of reprobates into lake of fire with satan. They destroy themselves.
CHATA in Hebrew means = sinner. We're talking about habitual sinners.

ZIMMAH means = plotted, planned, wicked.

Psalm chapter 37:12. The wicked plot against the just, and gnash upon him with his teeth.
37:13. The Lord shall laugh art him; for He sees that his day is coming.

Judgement day, reprobates follow satan into lake of fire.
Won't repent
Hate Jesus
Hate the righteous
Despise God's laws

1 Corinthians chapter 11:32 . But when we are judged, we are chastised of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

I won't soft peddle God's word. Some people are not going to make to eternal life . Reprobates should come to mind . This group is not coming to the light. They love darkness. Accountability isn't in thier vocabulary.

Psalm chapter 37, the wicked/reprobates are destroyed.

Those who repent, and love and serve God have eternal life. God is fair.

 

[Free]

Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous. For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish.

Sinners are all those sinning against God, and are the ungodly.

All sinning is unrighteousness:

Whosoever is committing sin transgresses also the law: for sinning is the transgression of the law.

All sinning is doing unrighteousness and transgressing the law of Christ.

And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

And you, having been dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

All sinners are the ungodly, the unrighteous, the trespassers, and the transgressors against God.

Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind...

Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which are doing such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Sinners are not inheriting the kingdom of God in the resurrection of the dead.

So, would you agree that a sinner someone whose life is characterized by willful, unrepentant sin?

Yes it is a command of God to acknowledge our sin, if we sin against Him.

I completely agree.

Man cannot repent of sinning, if we do not first acknowledge it as sinning against God.

I again agree.

You've never heard of any believer saying 1 John 1 is declaring we must all say we have sin in our lives?

I have and you just said it above. Of course, that is not what you said and so not what I was addressing. At least, if that is what you meant then you need to be more precise with your wording.

What you initially said was:

“1 John 1 is not a mandate from God for those walking in the light, to also be sinners.”

That is very different from:

“1 John 1 is declaring we must all say we have sin in our lives.”

Obviously God is not telling believers to be sinners; that is absurd. But, what he is saying is that believers must continually confess their sins and he will forgive us and cleanse us.

If it is condemned as a lie not to, then it is by commandment.

If it is a command to all believers, then it is a command to sin in our lives.

The corruption of 1 John 1 produces the lie that God commands His believers to sin. Otherwise, we could not honestly say we have sin in our lives.

I think it’s best to just stick with what the text says, don’t you? There is a clear command to believers, but it clearly is not to sin. There is simply no way to read that text and come to that conclusion.

However, 1 John 1 specifically rejects any doctrine of believers, that says they are saved by their own faith alone, and need not be justified by their works.

Where, exactly, does this passage reject “any doctrine of believers, that says they are saved by their own faith alone, and need not be justified by their work”?

No. That warning is to depart from doing iniquity, if we name His name.

1 John 1 is a rebuke to a doctrinal lie of sinful believers.

Have you never heard some sinful Christians say they are in the light now, even when they sin in darkness?

Again, you need to be more precise in your wording. What do you mean by “sinful” and “sinful believers (or Christians)”?

Or that believes still sin in their lives, but are no more condemned by it?

This, too, depends on what you mean by “sin in their lives.”

By saying we are in the light with Jesus, while walking in darkness with sin.

And by saying we have sin, but our sinning is no more condemned with the world.

I don’t understand these two points.

It's the naturally corrupt doctrinal product of being saved and justified with Christ by faith alone, separate and apart from how we are living.

And, yet:

Gal 2:16 yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified. (ESV)

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,
Eph 2:9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them. (ESV)

The consistent message throughout the NT is that we are saved by grace through faith, not by works. As v. 10 shows, we are created for good works. Good works are evidence of justification; they don’t justify us.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Epistle John 3:8 . He that commits sin is of the devil; for the devil sins from the beginning.

3:9. Who so ever is born of God does not sin; for His seed remains in him; and he can't sin, because he is born of God.

Were talking difference between Christian sinners and habitual sinners.

In the flesh, children of light will sin. They repent and try not to sin. They study sound doctrine and avoid false teachings.

Habitual sinners are children of darkness. They refuse to repent and hate the truth. This group is following satan. They hate the light.

3:10 . In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil:

We see the distinction between Christian sinners and habitual sinners.

The habitual sinners don't care about God and wont repent.

2 Peter 2:3. The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some men count slackness; but is long suffering to us, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Reality is, some people are not going to repent. This group won't give up satan as thier king.
Were talking about reprobates. This group is not going to conform to God's standard.

1 Peter 4:18. And if the righteous are scarcely saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

Reprobates are going to sheol, called hell. It's holding place for the spirtualty dead or wicked until judgement day. This group is waiting for the hammer to drop on judgement day. Get the picture.

Proverbs 11:31. Behold, the righteous shall be recompense in the earth ; Much more the wicked and the sinner.

Again, the group is habitual sinners, which are reprobates. On judgement day. This group will declare satan their king. Jesus is in position to have to March this group of reprobates into lake of fire with satan. They destroy themselves.
CHATA in Hebrew means = sinner. We're talking about habitual sinners.

ZIMMAH means = plotted, planned, wicked.

Psalm chapter 37:12. The wicked plot against the just, and gnash upon him with his teeth.
37:13. The Lord shall laugh art him; for He sees that his day is coming.

Judgement day, reprobates follow satan into lake of fire.
Won't repent
Hate Jesus
Hate the righteous
Despise God's laws

1 Corinthians chapter 11:32 . But when we are judged, we are chastised of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

I won't soft peddle God's word. Some people are not going to make to eternal life . Reprobates should come to mind . This group is not coming to the light. They love darkness. Accountability isn't in thier vocabulary.

Psalm chapter 37, the wicked/reprobates are destroyed.

Those who repent, and love and serve God have eternal life. God is fair.

If one are still committing sin, one is not in Christ...as there is no sin in Christ.
If one is still committing sin, they are walking in the "flesh", and not in the Spirit.