1 Peter 1:23 is about eternal security

[chessman]

Speaking of 1 Peter's view on how we are "kept":

We are kept by the power of God....through faith (1 Peter 1:5 NASB)

How powerful is God's faith on your view?

When one obtains salvation, are they "kept" by their own faith or by God's powerful faith?

 

[LovethroughDove]

In non-OSAS you know without a doubt that you are saved because you have faith in God's forgiveness. When you have faith you know that you are satisfying the condition for justification. If you stop believing in God's forgiveness you are no longer satisfying the condition for justification and, if you persist in that state, can not and will not be saved on the Day of Wrath.

I don't know if you saw my example of the kind of saving faith? Like knowing you need oxygen to breath, but you can't see oxygen.

You aren't gonna stop believing you need oxygen. That is what being born again is. You don't need to worry about the born agains. I'm worried about the clueless almost there/maybe believers.

Born agains have been born of Spirit and have the Spirit of Truth in us, it's not leaving. It obeys the Word of God in every aspect.

 

[FreeGrace]

With that, I can say you are doing your position a disservice by dismissing anything that doesn't support your interpretation as "opinion". You do have strong evidence yourself, and I would rely upon that as opposed to declaring and dismissing.

The other side has been dismissing or ignoring all that "strong evidence".

So it appears that for the purposes of this forum, a debate is each side presenting their own interpretation. Then why let the threads run on and on?

Debate involves (or should) 2 things: presenting evidence that does support your position, AND challenging the opposing side's evidence by showing that it doesn't support their position. That's the nature of debate.

Just sharing interpretations is not a debate.

 

[FreeGrace]

The anti-eternal-security argument will typically interpolate scriptures to say just that. Otherwise, what would be the point of holding the argument that everything Christ died on the cross to give us can be un-done?

Excellent question, MS. And welcome to the foray!!

 

[FreeGrace]

Why?
I've provided a whole raft of them and you refused to believe any of them.

But this is what I said:
" please provide just one verse that plainly teaches that one who has eternal life/salvation can lose it."

"plainly teaches". Where is that single best verse that "plainly teaches" loss of salvation?

Why should I bother playing that game with you since you clearly don't want to know what you don't want to know?

I've already shown from LOGIC that eternal life is irrevocable. Those who don't want to know are those who have ignored this LOGIC and provided quite an illogical defense.

 

[FreeGrace]

That is not the only conclusion.
The selective use of scripture combined with the exclusion of any scripture that refutes a predetermined conclusion does not result in a "proof" that the predetermined solution is correct. It only proves that the one who misuses scripture in such a manner is more dedicated to their religious traditions than to the revelation of scripture.

Is eternal life a gift of God or not? Please answer.
Are the gifts of God irrevocable? Please answer.

 

[FreeGrace]

That's your personal opinion!
No! That's YOUR personal opinion!
No! That's YOUR personal opinion!
No! That's YOUR personal opinion!
No! That's YOUR personal opinion!
or:

Can we just move on, please?

Let's see if you can.

From Rom 6:23, is it a personal opinion that eternal life is a gift of God? Or fact?
From Rom 11:29, it is a personal opinion that God's gifts are irrevocable? Or fact?

 

[Mustard Socks]

Excellent question, MS. And welcome to the foray!!

I wouldn't think it a foray . Rather an adventure through scripture wherein reading it is reiterated by watching its truth transpire right before my eyes.

I love it when I pay attention to God's words. Never a dull moment.

 

[Mustard Socks]

Why?
I've provided a whole raft of them and you refused to believe any of them.
Why should I bother playing that game with you since you clearly don't want to know what you don't want to know?

Humility would make the observation that what is at issue there is that it is intolerable to you that someone doesn't concede they must believe what you think you know in order to know God in a way you approve.

Proverbs 22:4
The reward for humility and fear of the Lord is riches and honor and life.

 

[gr8grace3]

Not true. And here lies the debate. As with any debate, both sides present evidence to support their interpretation. Those involved or following along evaluate what they read and align it with scripture themselves.

Scripture is not on trial. Its credibility is not in question. The interpretation it by men is. Make no mistake. You are not the final arbiter of Truth, nor is anyone on this site. What you and everyone else has is interpretation; not the final word.

If you insist that your interpretation is the final word, I'll refer you to the Blogs section. I purposely stay out of the fray in these debates and not take sides. With that, I can say you are doing your position a disservice by dismissing anything that doesn't support your interpretation as "opinion". You do have strong evidence yourself, and I would rely upon that as opposed to declaring and dismissing.

Seriously?

Ok. If eternal security is not true. And if loss of salvation is not true. What is the 3rd alternative?

And if that is a stupid question.......which of the 2 is Truth?

If EVERYTHING is just someones interpretation. Is there really truth out there then?

 

[Jim Parker]

We are eternally one with Christ those that believe.

I assume you mean to say, "Those that believe are eternally one with Christ."
I agree. They are eternally one with Christ as long as they continue to believe.

I believe those who do not see eternity with Christ as something they're eternally worthy of in God's grace aren't making an argument with any other one here.

No one is worthy of eternal life.
Eternal life is a gift offered to sinners who will repent and believe.
It's a GIFT.
People don't have to be "worthy" to receive a gift.
They just need someone who loves them enough to offer it to them.
That would be God.

 

[dirtfarmer]

I assume you mean to say, "Those that believe are eternally one with Christ."
I agree. They are eternally one with Christ as long as they continue to believe.

No one is worthy of eternal life.
Eternal life is a gift offered to sinners who will repent and believe.
It's a GIFT.
People don't have to be "worthy" to receive a gift.
They just need someone who loves them enough to offer it to them.
That would be God.

hello Jim Parker, dirtfarmer here

Since a saved person's sin is covered(paid for) by the blood of Christ, what happens to that covered(paid for) sin when they become an unbeliever again? Are those sins then re-imputed (put to their account) and when they die they will be judged for those "once covered by the blood" sins?

 

[Jim Parker]

Since a saved person's sin is covered(paid for) by the blood of Christ, what happens to that covered(paid for) sin when they become an unbeliever again?

Good question.
Those previous sins are forgiven and God does not go back on His word.
But everything after apostasy remains for the apostate.
Someone who is apostate is someone who has disconnected from God and, therefore, no longer has eternal life in Christ Jesus which is the only place that a person can find eternal life. (IN Christ Jesus)
Rom 3:21-26
But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference; for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

Fall from grace; back at square one.

 

[Jim Parker]

Humility would make the observation that what is at issue there is that it is intolerable to you that someone doesn't concede they must believe what you think you know in order to know God in a way you approve.

Does Humility post in this forum?
What I see is a whole lot of Bro. Arrogant and his brothers and sisters who, though lacking any formal training, consider themselves expert theologians.
What I see is people more dedicated to whatever their pastor teaches or their denomination teaches or what their favorite televangelist teaches than to what scripture teaches.
What I see is people without a clue as to the languages, literature, logic, hermeneutics, culture, political context, religious context, etc. of the scriptures pontificating and "proof-texting" about how "The Bible say's so."

Pardon me for being profoundly underwhelmed.

 

[dirtfarmer]

Good question.
Those previous sins are forgiven and God does not go back on His word.
But everything after apostasy remains for the apostate.
Someone who is apostate is someone who has disconnected from God and, therefore, no longer has eternal life in Christ Jesus which is the only place that a person can find eternal life. (IN Christ Jesus)
Rom 3:21-26
But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference; for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

Fall from grace; back at square one.

Good question.
Those previous sins are forgiven and God does not go back on His word.
But everything after apostasy remains for the apostate.
Someone who is apostate is someone who has disconnected from God and, therefore, no longer has eternal life in Christ Jesus which is the only place that a person can find eternal life. (IN Christ Jesus)
Rom 3:21-26
But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference; for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

Fall from grace; back at square one.

hello Jim Parker, dirtfarmer here

You need to study the phrase;" Because in his forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed". "Forbearance" refers back to the old testament in which God did not remit sins, only "forbear" punishment to them, until Christ was crucified and the atonement for those sins should be made by the sacrifice of Christ. What was the manifestation of God's righteousness under the old economy? God has set forth Christ as the propitiation for sin, not the blood of bulls and goats, or even heifers. God winked at sin before but now requires all men to repent: Acts 17:30

 

[Mike]

Seriously?

Ok. If eternal security is not true. And if loss of salvation is not true. What is the 3rd alternative?

And if that is a stupid question.......which of the 2 is Truth?

If EVERYTHING is just someones interpretation. Is there really truth out there then?

I'd suggest you read my previous post again. I never suggested or even hinted that there is no absolute Truth.

 

[JLB]

Eternal security is the topic. We are eternally one with Christ those that believe.

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6

Jesus taught us that there will be those who are in Him, however they do not remain in Him.

JLB

 

[Mustard Socks]

1 John 2:
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.

21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.

22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

 

[Mike]

Debate involves (or should) 2 things: presenting evidence that does support your position, AND challenging the opposing side's evidence by showing that it doesn't support their position. That's the nature of debate.

Correct, but you repeatedly refuse to acknowledge that the opposing side has any evidence, so you are not even engaging them in what you define as debate. There is a difference between pointing out why you believe someone is wrong and refusing to acknowledge that they've shown anything at all. I've watched too many hours to count of world class apologists debate at the highest level. I've never see one of them dismiss anything, let alone everything, their opponent presented as opinion. That's a cop out.

Of course I'd expect you to argue for what you interpret scripture to say. You can take my friendly given advice or not. I'm just telling you that this tactic of yours tends to weaken your otherwise strong defense.

 

[JLB]

1 John 2:
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.

21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.

22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

What does that have to do with a person being "in Christ", then being removed from Christ and cast into the fire and burned.

Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit.
John 15:2

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6


These were "in Christ", then later, they were cast into the fire and burned.

• How does a person come to be "in Christ"?

What more does a person have to do, to be "in Christ", than believe?




JLB