1 Peter 1:23 is about eternal security

[LovethroughDove]

What does that have to do with a person being "in Christ", then being removed from Christ and cast into the fire and burned.

Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit.
John 15:2

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6


These were "in Christ", then later, they were cast into the fire and burned.

• How does a person come to be "in Christ"?

What more does a person have to do, to be "in Christ", than believe?




JLB

JLB, I kept posting "abide in me" verse in reference to him as the (Word of God). You must disagree with this? This verse is specifically in reference to him as the Word, not Him with the Holy Spirit.


See............ John 15:7 If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be given you.

 

[gr8grace3]

1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.

They left the faith. Meaning, those who stopped with the faith were deceiving themselves that they were even in the faith. You will not stop believing if you've been given the Spirit. It's a moot point.

Or It could be that John was a doctrinal teacher, and had many believers who were Growing in Grace and knowledge and maturing. And many people didn't like the work and discipline it takes to ADVANCE in the Christian way of life.................so they left his church. Not their salvation.

Many believers will leave churches that teach truth, pride swallowing,work and discipline. And that was what John taught in his churches. So they left him..........but they are stilled saved.

 

[LovethroughDove]

Or It could be that John was a doctrinal teacher, and had many believers who were Growing in Grace and knowledge and maturing. And many people didn't like the work and discipline it takes to ADVANCE in the Christian way of life.................so they left his church. Not their salvation.

Many believers will leave churches that teach truth, pride swallowing,work and discipline. And that was what John taught in his churches. So they left him..........but they are stilled saved.

I think it means what is says. This verse happens to be in the middle of anti-christs verses.

 

[gr8grace3]

I think it means what is says. This verse happens to be in the middle of anti-christs verses.

Yeah, a baby Christian who rejects advancing in the Christian way of life is anti-Christ. That baby Christian is just going to be, well, a baby in heaven.

 

[Mustard Socks]

What does that have to do with a person being "in Christ", then being removed from Christ and cast into the fire and burned.

Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit.
John 15:2

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6


These were "in Christ", then later, they were cast into the fire and burned.

• How does a person come to be "in Christ"?

What more does a person have to do, to be "in Christ", than believe?




JLB

I believe the answer to your query is in the red you added to verse 8.
John 15:5-6

 

[LovethroughDove]

Yeah, a baby Christian who rejects advancing in the Christian way of life is anti-Christ. That baby Christian is just going to be, well, a baby in heaven.

I don't think scripture says that. The spirit of the anti-christ wants to down play Jesus himself. The anti-christ spirit spiritualizes until it doesn't even matter if there was a real Jesus that walked the earth. This spirit doesn't want to reveal the flesh and blood Christ, you can believe in an abstract version and it's okay.

1 John 4:2-3 This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.

 

[Mustard Socks]

13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:13

Those who believe for a while, then return to unbelieving, no longer meet the biblical requirements of having the Holy Spirit.

Do you presume they had the Holy Spirit in the first place?

 

[FreeGrace]

This is patently false. Take crime scenes for example. There can be evidence pointing in various directions, even though one thing happened in one way. J. Warner Wallace was a homicide detective in LA, and he turned his investigative techniques toward Christianity with an apologetics ministry called Cold Case Christianity. His books and weekly podcasts are great.

There is always evidence of various things. Some are valid, and some are not, but they are all collected and considered evidence. For you to declare that no evidence has been presented at all appears disingenuous.

My point has been "no evidence that is valid" for their claims. Does that help?

Show how their evidence is wrong, but don't say they have no evidence at all.

OK, I'll add "valid" to the statement, when their evidence doesn't lead to a loss of salvation doctrine.

 

[Jim Parker]

I am patiently waiting for someone to provide any verse that teaches this clearly.

So you are patiently waiting for something that you have already decided you will ignore.
That's like patiently waiting for a gift that you have already decided to return unopened.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

That's like patiently waiting for a gift that you have already decided to return unopened.

No, he's stuck with it.
He says it's impossible to give back a gift.

 

[gr8grace3]

No, he's stuck with it.
He says it's impossible to give back a gift.

No, Not even CLOSE. Salvation/eternal life is not a gift we can give back. He bought us with a price and we are not our own.

You still think you are your own? Why fight so hard to give His gift back?

 

[gr8grace3]

So you are patiently waiting for something that you have already decided you will ignore.

Ignore? The verses folks use to "prove" loss of salvation has been gone over and over. But the clear verses for eternal security.............are ignored.

I am with Freegrace. The Lord Jesus Christ tells us plainly,clearly and in definite terms that we have passed from death into life. That we shall NEVER perish. That we will NOT come into judgement. That we are born-again(PERFECT tense) from imperishable seed. That we are sealed for the day of redemption. And many other CLEAR verses and Words.

John 5:24 should be enough for anyone who is walking in the Spirit and is filled with the Spirit. That "truly, truly" or "Amen,amen" that starts that verse is a LISTEN, AND LISTEN GOOD verse. Because He knew that satan and the kingdom of darkness would ATTACK it's clear message.

New American Standard Bible
"Truly, truly(listen to Me , because there are going to be those who try to tell you your not really saved or can lose salvation), I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

 

[JLB]

Do you presume they had the Holy Spirit in the first place?

13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory. Ephesians 1:13-14

What is it this verse teaches us, we must do, to receive the Holy Spirit?

I believe Paul is teaching us that we must believe, in order to have the Holy Spirit.


What is it, according to your understanding, that a person must do, to have the Holy Spirit?



JLB

 

[Jim Parker]

The verses folks use to "prove" loss of salvation has been gone over and over. But the clear verses for eternal security.............are ignored.

That's the conclusion an OSAS must derive as a result of ignoring any and all scripture which does not fit his religion.
In short, you don't want to know.
That's what happens when someone's religion takes the place of scripture.
So why bother trying to tell you what you've already clearly stated you don't want to know?
It's a useless exercise.

 

[JLB]

the gifts of God are irrevocable.

False!

The gifts and the calling are irrevocable.

For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. Romans 11:29

eternal life is a gift of God.

False!

For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:23

• The gift of God is eternal life "in Christ Jesus" our Lord.
• The wages of sin is death.

Paul warns these Christians that the wages of sin is death.

Paul warns these Christians, not to become a slave again to sin, as your master is the one you obey:

• Whether sin leading to death.
• Obedience unto righteousness.

...you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?


Quoting half verse's out of context is the mark of a false teacher!


JLB

 

[JLB]

I believe the answer to your query is in the red you added to verse 8.
John 15:5-6

Please explain what this means.



JLB

 

[JLB]

JLB, I kept posting "abide in me" verse in reference to him as the (Word of God). You must disagree with this? This verse is specifically in reference to him as the Word, not Him with the Holy Spirit.


See............ John 15:7 If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be given you.

Not Him with the Holy Spirit?

What does this mean?


JLB

 

[LovethroughDove]

Not Him with the Holy Spirit?

What does this mean?

JLB

John 14:20 On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you.

This is the moment you are born of the Spirit.

 

[FreeGrace]

I said this:
"I am patiently waiting for someone to provide any verse that teaches this clearly."

So you are patiently waiting for something that you have already decided you will ignore.

Apparently my statement hasn't been understood. I'm not sure what part of "any verse that teaches this clearly" wasn't clear.

That's like patiently waiting for a gift that you have already decided to return unopened.

It's difficult to make any kind of comparison when the statement wasn't understood

No, he's stuck with it.
He says it's impossible to give back a gift.

If there is the possibility of giving back the free gift of eternal life (Rom 6:23), where is this taught in the Bible?

I never addressed gifts in general, but only the specific gift of eternal life. So your comment is irrelevant to the discussion.

And speaking of 'giving back' a gift, how about we focus on the actual discussion of whether the free gift of eternal life can be REVOKED, which is quite a different thing than just giving back. To be REVOKED means to take away, not give back.

It seems your position just keeps flip-flopping on the subject.

It goes from losing eternal life by God revoking it, to losing eternal life by giving it away, to losing it by a list of behaviors.

 

[FreeGrace]

I said this:
"the gifts of God are irrevocable."

False!

Rom 11:29 directly refutes your claim.

The gifts and the calling are irrevocable.

What does that mean? That the gifts all by themselves are not irrevocable? That would be nonsensical.

For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. Romans 11:29

Do you not realize that Paul is identifying TWO THINGS that EACH are irrevocable?

Both the gifts of God AND the calling of God are irrevocable.

If your position is that "gifts and calling" represent just ONE thing, then please explain what that means.

Then I said this:
"eternal life is a gift of God."

False!

Once again, your claim is directly refuted by Rom 6:23.

For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:23

Why don't you see the plain words of Scripture "but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord".

The gift of God is eternal life "in Christ Jesus" our Lord.

• The wages of sin is death.

Paul warns these Christians that the wages of sin is death.

You have sorely misunderstood what Paul was saying. Those who have believed ARE in Christ Jesus, and HAVE the gift of eternal life. So there is NO WARNING of death from the wages of sin.

Don't you know that Jesus Christ PAID the sin debt??

Paul warns these Christians, not to become a slave again to sin, as your master is the one you obey:

• Whether sin leading to death.
• Obedience unto righteousness.

• Since you've made it quite clear that every occurence of "death" means only "eternal death" there is no use in further discussion. Your position lacks the doctrine of divine discipline that includes physical death. And those verses have been shown, so I'll not irritate you any farther by reminding you of them.

Quoting half verse's out of context is the mark of a false teacher!
JLB

As if a plain statement in the verse means something else if not including every word in the verse? Nonsensical, again.