10-28-2023 Daytona Seventh Day BAPTIST Pastor Ben “What Happens When People Die?” Gen 2;7

[Mr. G Lee]

Do you believe our spirit and soul never die?

As new creatures yoked with Christ yes.

These persons wake up to a changed life for God.

What kind of a changed life. Born again?

Changed life from which god? The god of lying signs to wonder after? Or the God of prophecy as it is written.

When Jesus experienced the lying wonder in Mathew 4 the father gave him words to rebuke Satan three times as it is written. . . as it is written and again as it is written to establish sola scriptura the sword of the Spirit of Christ

 

[reddogs]

Taken from the perspective of the living, I'm sure it all appears that way in all those verses. That does not mean that is the way it is on the other side. NDEs have shown there is eternal life.

I have to go by Gods Word on this, everyone has to choose....

 

[reddogs]

If we read it with an open mind rather than prejudiced by mans ideas we can see what it tells us. We can begin with Gen 2:7
"And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."

When God united His breath, or spirit with man, man became a living soul. A living soul is composed of body and spirit.

05397 hmvn n@shamah nesh-aw-maw'

from 05395; n f; {See TWOT on 1433 @@ '1433a'}

AV-breath 17, blast 3, spirit 2, inspiration 1, souls 1; 24

1) breath, spirit
1a) breath (of God)
1b) breath (of man)
1c) every breathing thing
1d) spirit (of man)

How was man formed? (Body + breath = living soul)

When one dies, their spirit goes back to God who gave it, at which point, one is no longer a living soul. This is why humanity is not immortal, and must receive the same from God as a gift of salvation.

What is the breath? Breath is equated with the spirit of God.

Job 27:3 All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of God is in my nostrils.

At death the body returns to dust while the spirit is said to return to God who gave it. (Silver cord = spine, golden bowl = skull, pitcher = heart, wheel = lungs)

Ecclesiastes 12:6 Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern.
7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

When we are born our breath, as drawn from the surrounding atmosphere, may be said to come from or be given by God and with the same propriety may it be said, when it leaves the body at death to return unto Him. At death the breath or spirit of man is said to be gathered unto God.

Job 34:14 If he set his heart upon man, if he [God] gather unto himself his spirit and his breath;
15 All flesh shall perish together, and man shall turn again unto dust.

Christ understood that his spirit would return to God at death.

Luke 23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.

Once a mans spirit or breath is gone his thoughts perish.

Psalm 146:3-4 Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help.
4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.

The dead know nothing they are unconscious. All their thoughts and feelings are gone.

Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.

So their feelings perish also, the dead are silent, they do not praise God.

The dead praise not the Lord, neither any that go down into silence. Psalms 115: 17

This state of unconsciousness is equated with sleep. Job says,

So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more; they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep. Job 14:12

Mans life only remains while he has breath.

Isaiah 2:22 Cease ye from man, whose breath is in his nostrils: for wherein is he to be accounted of?

Man has no pre-eminence over animals. We all die the same. It cannot be proved whether the spirit goes up or downward. The pagan belief was that the spirit of man goes up and the spirit of animals goes down but Solomon says we have the same spirit as the animals and it can’t be proved where the spirit goes at death.

Ecclesiastes 3:19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.
20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.
21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?

The breath of life is the spirit which God has given both man and beast. It is common to all living things and is not a distinguishing characteristic of man. It lets us live and once it stops, we die, and we go to the grave and await the resurrection at the end.

 

[Mr. G Lee]

Where is a personal relationship with the Lord allowed in your viewpoints?

Personal as two walking in agreement to His living.

There are no laws missing by which we could know eternal God not seen anymore intimately or adequately.

It is perfect sealed with7 seals till the end of time. Under the Sun

 

[Josef]

Hey All,
If the visions and dreams do not agree with God's Word they are not from God. So be careful with them.
There is no new prophecy (Old Testament or Revelation tyle) being given today. Paul tells us the gift of prophecy is not to see into the future. But is as the verse reads:

1 Corinthians 14:3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.

Edification - a building up, a progress of the mind
Exhortation - encouragement, to stimulate

So prophecy should build a person up, encourage, stimulate, and comfort them. As such, even this type of prophecy has to match up with, or not go against, God's Word. The Bible is our judge, and final authority on any prophecy spoken.

Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz

 

[hawkman]

If the visions and dreams do not agree with God's Word they are not from God. So be careful with them.

We are told to test the spirits .
1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

There is no new prophecy (Old Testament or Revelation tyle) being given today.

Josef , do you think we are living in the last days ? I do .

17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

Paul tells us the gift of prophecy is not to see into the future. But is as the verse reads:

1 Corinthians 14:3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.

Edification - a building up, a progress of the mind
Exhortation - encouragement, to stimulate

Would it not be a building up and an encouragement to be comforted by someone giving an insight to the future through the gift of prophecy ?

 

[Mr. G Lee]

We are told to test the spirits .
1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

Josef , do you think we are living in the last days ? I do .

17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

Would it not be a building up and an encouragement to be comforted by someone giving an insight to the future through the gift of prophecy ?

We test the spirits by seeing if someone is adding the the word of God Lo is Christ I had a vison or heard a word

The elect were warned before time to not believe in signs that some wonder after

God was still adding at the time of Acts . He finished with John the last apostle sent with prophecy

 

[daninthelionsden]

While it is true that all dreams, visions, prophecies and words of knowledge need to line up with the Word in order to have validity, these given to a believer by God for his own edification doesn't invalidate them just because one chooses to share this most intimate and personal encounter with the Lord.

 

[Josef]

Hey All,
"do you think we are living in the last days ? I do." Quote from hawkman

Who can say? I have living in the last days since the 1970s. Hasn't happened yet! I believe there are more real prophecies still to be fulfilled. For example, the European Union is not in the right configuration. The Bible says it will be 10 countries. If it were the last days, what would the prophecy be about? Prophesy in Acts 2:17 means to proclaim the truth. In the last days, what truth would there be?
"Jesus has not come back yet. There is still time. Repent and receive Jesus. That is the proclamation.

"Would it not be a building up and an encouragement to be comforted by someone giving an insight to the future through the gift of prophecy ?" Quote from hawkman

Prophecy is not like going to a fortune teller. It isn't for personal use. It is God telling us what must happen, and making us aware. We have The Revelation of John. God knows that is all we need.

Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz

 

[GodsGrace]

Now thats the question, is our opinions what is true, or is Gods Word what gives us truth. Lets look
at what is says on death, and we clearly see it is a state of non-being or unconsciousness, and is described as such in the Scriptures.

His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish. Psalms 146:4

For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not anything. Ecclesiastes 9:5

The dead are oblivious to what is happening on earth they know nothing.

Also their love, and their hatred and their envy is now perished. Ecclesiastes 9:6

For in death there is no remembrance of You; in the grave who will give you thanks? Psalm 6:5

So their feelings perish also.
The dead praise not the Lord, neither any that go down into silence. Psalms 115: 17

This state of unconsciousness is equated with sleep. Job says,

So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more; they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep. Job 14:12

We die and go to the grave until the resurrection at the end of time. Thus what Christ said when it came to Lazarus in the grave..

​

24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: John 11:24-25

All your verses are from the OT.
I'm sure you're aware that not all believed in life after death.
The Pharisees believed.
The sadducees did not believe in any life after death.

Do you believe in ongoing revelation and that Jesus was the ultimate revelation of the truth?

At the end of your post you quoted John 11:25 when Jesus tells Martha that whoever believes in Him will live even though he is dead.
What does this mean?

If God not the God of the living?
Matthew 22:31-33
31“But regarding the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was spoken to you by God:
32‘I AM THE GOD OF ABRAHAM, AND THE GOD OF ISAAC, AND THE GOD OF JACOB’? He is not the God of the dead but of the living.”
33When the crowds heard this, they were astonished at His teaching.

At the Mount of Transfiguration, Moses and Elijah are alive, not dead.

Orthodox Christianity teaches that we never die.

 

[GodsGrace]

As new creatures yoked with Christ yes.


What kind of a changed life. Born again?

Changed life from which god? The god of lying signs to wonder after? Or the God of prophecy as it is written.

When Jesus experienced the lying wonder in Mathew 4 the father gave him words to rebuke Satan three times as it is written. . . as it is written and again as it is written to establish sola scriptura the sword of the Spirit of Christ

Attributing to God powers of satan is blasphemy.
This is what you are doing.
Please stop.

 

[reddogs]

All your verses are from the OT.
I'm sure you're aware that not all believed in life after death.
The Pharisees believed.
The sadducees did not believe in any life after death.

Do you believe in ongoing revelation and that Jesus was the ultimate revelation of the truth?

At the end of your post you quoted John 11:25 when Jesus tells Martha that whoever believes in Him will live even though he is dead.
What does this mean?

If God not the God of the living?
Matthew 22:31-33
31“But regarding the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was spoken to you by God:
32‘I AM THE GOD OF ABRAHAM, AND THE GOD OF ISAAC, AND THE GOD OF JACOB’? He is not the God of the dead but of the living.”
33When the crowds heard this, they were astonished at His teaching.

At the Mount of Transfiguration, Moses and Elijah are alive, not dead.

Orthodox Christianity teaches that we never die.

Elijah was taken up alive as the saints living at the end will, and Moses was brought up by Christ himself as the saints in the grave will be at the resurrection.

2 Kings 2:11
And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

Jude 1:9
Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

 

[GodsGrace]

Elijah was taken up alive as the saints living at the end will, and Moses was brought up by Christ himself as the saints in the grave will be at the resurrection.

Are you saying that Moses was taken to heaven alive?
If so, this is incorrect. Moses was buried.
Gabriel and satan contended for Moses' BODY. He was dead.

2 Kings 2:11
And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

Jude 1:9
Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

Ditto.

 

[reddogs]

Are you saying that Moses was taken to heaven alive?
If so, this is incorrect. Moses was buried.
Gabriel and satan contended for Moses' BODY. He was dead.


Ditto.

Gods Word makes it plain that the dead will live again..
Acts 4:2
Being grieved that they taught the people, and preached through Jesus the resurrection from the dead.

 

[hawkman]

Hey All,
"do you think we are living in the last days ? I do." Quote from hawkman

Who can say?

When the "last days " began would be something to debate about . I can only say that dreams and visions are happening in my life now for the last decade or so .

Prophecy is not like going to a fortune teller.

Have you used the services of a fortune teller before ? I have not and have NO plans to do so !

It isn't for personal use.

It can be for personal use as we will see in what I will share with you .

Did Mary the mother of Jesus receive a personal prophecy ?

Question for you Josef , Why wasn't Mary's prophecy proclaimed in public ?

John the Baptist's father Zacharias received a prophecy and he told no one as far as we know , surely not verbally .
13 But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John.

Timothy had prophecy he was to follow .
1 Timothy 1:18 This charge I commit unto thee, son Timothy, according to the prophecies which went before on thee, that thou by them mightest war a good warfare;

Good link on more personal prophecy .

Personal Prophecy: Is Personal Prophecy Biblical?

It is God telling us what must happen, and making us aware.

It can be by dreams , visions a word of knowledge . God can communicate with us in so many ways !

 

[GodsGrace]

Gods Word makes it plain that the dead will live again..
Acts 4:2
Being grieved that they taught the people, and preached through Jesus the resurrection from the dead.

??
The sadducees were very upset BECAUSE Peter and John were preaching the resurrection.

 

[Mr. G Lee]

Attributing to God powers of satan is blasphemy.
This is what you are doing.
Please stop.

How did you come to that conclusion as to that is what I am doing ??

 

[Mr. G Lee]

While it is true that all dreams, visions, prophecies and words of knowledge need to line up with the Word in order to have validity, these given to a believer by God for his own edification doesn't invalidate them just because one chooses to share this most intimate and personal encounter with the Lord.

If he does not validate them as it is written. Then how would we know they are not with all power lies signs to woner after . Like with jeus in Mathew 4 .when the father gave words to rebuke the father of lies .God called those who do seek after signs before they will believe a evil generation .

It can be seen with many other examples. Sign seekers making Jesus into a circus seal. Rather than follow prophecy.

 

[daninthelionsden]

Attributing to God powers of satan is blasphemy.
This is what you are doing.
Please stop.

I wasn't brave enough to say that....

 

[daninthelionsden]

If he does not validate them as it is written. Then how would we know they are not with all power lies signs to woner after . Like with jeus in Mathew 4 .when the father gave words to rebuke the father of lies .God called those who do seek after signs before they will believe a evil generation .

It can be seen with many other examples. Sign seekers making Jesus into a circus seal. Rather than follow prophecy.

You are leaving out the gift of Discernment as given by the Holy Spirit. You are also deciding whether or not the Comforter is at work in a very personal intimate way.
When someone tries to prophecy in a general way concerning all the you are most likely correct, but when the Holy Spirit is working personally in someone's life.....do you have the right, as a Christian, to call this the work of Satan? What is the UNFORGIVABLE sin? Are you treading on thin ice? What do you think the power of the Holy Spirit is? When they make a show of it.....then it is most likely false, but if they're only sharing an experience.......I'd hold my tongue if they seem sincere and I'd only make my own personal opinion of it.