10 reasons WHY the Quran is NOT from God

[Sissy]

I caught your interpretation of it.

Thanks for citing a NT verse to prove your point, but theres no OT verse that can be pointed to showing a triune God without doing some acrobatic feats of interpretation, and or completely ignoring the way the Hebrew language works.

Ummm.
Jesus was quoting an OT verse!!!!
Psalms 110.

Thanks for pointing out that God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow - so why didnt Moses or Noah or any other Prophet speak about Jesus directly,

You mean like NOT talking about mohammed directly????
And yet muslims interpret Moses and the Prophets as referring to mohammed!!!!

Muslims want to enforce restrictive standards of interpreting scripture on Christians that they do not enforce upon themselves!

or even speak about the coming SON of God (not the coming messiah) - why does the OT never explicitly mention such a fundamental core belief?

It does.

Isaiah 9
(6) For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
​

Notice the difference?

A child is born. (The WORD made flesh)
A son is given. (The WORD given to the world)

John 1
(1) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.


(14) And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
​

And the same John records:

John 3
(16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
​

It all throughout scripture for those who do not turn a blind eye and follow made up doctrines of men who's motive is to corrupt the holy scripture into a new doctrine.

 

[theLords]

I caught your interpretation of it.

My interpretation? I didn't interpret it, all I did was simply quote the Scripture! No commentaries of my own.

Thanks for citing a NT verse to prove your point, but theres no OT verse that can be pointed to showing a triune God without doing some acrobatic feats of interpretation, and or complettely ignoring the way the Hebrew language works.

For someone who has read the OT, I'm surprised that you didn't catch the various forms that Elohim took throughout it's many pages. No acrobatics. No need to understand the Hebrew language. Simply, Scripture. The written Word. So that any man whether learned or unlearned, can seek the God of Abraham and find Him.

Here is the Scripture that Jesus quotes:

Psalm 110:1
The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

There the OT. Does that make you feel better?

Thanks for pointing out that God is the same yesterday, today na dtommorow - so why didnt MOses or Noah or nay other Prophet speak about Jesus directly, or even speak about the coming SON of God (not the coming mesiah) - why does the OT never explicitly mention such a fundemental core belief? If it is SOOOOO important that one must accept Jesus(AS) into ones heart - that he is god - that he died for our sins - that he is the begotten Son, Today. Why is it yesterday, God never mentioned anything about the SON he has up in heaven with him waiting to come back - why is it he never mentions anything about needing a bllod thirsty sacrafise for the sins of man? - More importantly, why is it Jesus(AS) himself never mentions that he is God incarnate or that he is in any way equal to God? in fact, he says the opposite.

Noah is not a prophet.

Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and Moses believed in the Lord (Jesus Christ). It's all over the OT and their interactions with God. Omitting the concept of the Trinity for the sake of this discussion, the Jews still recognize the forms that Elohim can take and that He is not limited in His interactions with man. The OT speaks of the coming Messiah. The Jews rejected Jesus as the Messiah and are still awaiting a Savior. They don't reject the Messiah they reject Christ as the Messiah. The OT prophesies the coming of Christ but in the OT the Lord makes it a point not to give out His name.

Why would He do that?

Remember, BELIEF, is what the Lord of Abraham values.

So if the God of Abraham values belief so much, why does He set up the OT in the way He does? He speaks in parables and metaphors. Why? What is He trying to weed out? Or who is He trying to weed out?

I'm not sure what you're on about in reference to the need for a sacrifice for human sins as the Jewish Law makes it explicitly clear? The Jews still practice this concept to this day. The OT God of Abraham and the NT God of Abraham go hand in hand when it comes to atonement. The God of Abraham is "blood thirsty" from Genesis, beginning with Cain and Abel, to Abraham, to the Mosiac Law, to the fulfillment of the Law through Jesus Christ.

This again brings us back to the point of the OP. The God of Abraham is not the God of Mahammed. The God of Abraham requested blood sacrifices for the atonement of sin. The Christians follow the God of Abraham and the practice of blood atonement for the forgiveness of sins.

Jesus many times says He is God, and never corrects those who claims He is, but instead honors them for their, wait, what's that word? Oh, yeah... BELIEF. So it seems Jesus Christ values belief in the same manner that the God of Abraham does. Jesus speaks to the people in parables and metaphors. Why? What is He seeking? Who is He trying to weed out? Can it be what the God of Abraham sought?

The nature of the God of Abraham and the nature of Jesus Christ seem to be One and the same. They seem to go hand in hand.

Now - lets talk about the "sacrafises" Paul made for his faith.

After inciting a riot in Jerusalem - he is the mysteriously escorted by guards to ceasara - to stand before the governor felix - why caesara? What authority does Caesara have over Jerusalem? Now the imagination forms an image of Paul in chains before the governor - but strangely, Paul is invited by the governor to stay at his palace - what a rough time Paul mustve had sleeping in a big gubernatorial palace. Then felix summons him, and rather than bringing him in chains - he freely goes before the governor and has a polite conversation. Sounds more like a debriefing than an inquisition.

(Acts 21?) Inciting a riot? Why can't you at least state the truth? You don't have to twist the Scriptures to make your argument look good. You are capable of legitimate debate. Your account of Paul is blatantly false.

The accurate account is that Paul was minding his own business and was attacked by some of the other Jews while in the temple.

As for Caesarea- you do remember that Jerusalem was under Roman rule right? And that Paul was a Roman citizen by birth. The reason he was sent to Felix by guard was because he was a Roman citizen and the arresting commander feared the repercussions he would face if he mistreated Paul. The Lord presented an opportunity for Paul to minister to the governor Felix as well as the King and other high officials. He was held in prison and when he stood before Felix and the King he stood before them in chains. You also forget to mention that Paul was held in prison and left there because he was forgotten.

He spent alot of time in prison and in chains. How did he handle it? In one of his prison stays, with his arms tied behind his back, he sang the praises of God and a Roman soldier and his whole family became believers. He was beaten, flogged, shipwrecked, homeless, poor, persecuted, and murdered because of his desire to serve the Lord. His Lord. The Lord of his forefathers and the Lord of his people. The first followers of Christ were all Jews. They looked into their Scriptures and believed. They saw what we as Christians today see. Many Jews are still coming to the faith. They search their own Scriptures and see that they testify and proclaim Jesus Christ as the Lamb of God.

 

[Alabaster]

#1 – Of primary importance: the Bible was NOT altered before the time of Mohammed.
These are “the Scriptures†that Allah, Gabriel, and Mohammed are referring to.
God orchestrated thousands of years of history to produce His precious Scriptures.
God did NOT fail to preserve them, and He was NOT defeated by Satan and/or man in this.
If alteration had actually happened:
-- Muslims could have produced a portion of some Bible to prove alteration.
-- the Christian world would certainly have been screaming warnings about it.
-- Gabriel would also have been screaming warnings about it to Mohammed.
I have 13 quotes from Muslim scholars who say the whole idea is just ridiculous.
To insist that thousands of Bible verses were altered is just wishful thinking.
Note: Muslims use the Triune God as their #1 excuse for rejecting Christianity, but
the basic Christian gospel (which they also reject) contains nothing about the Trinity.

#2 -- Allah is NOT the God of the Bible, but he says he is in 29:46.
OT: God chose the Israelites to represent humanity for what He wanted to prove
to the world about humanity, and for bringing forth His Messiah-Redeemer-Savior.
God had to be a very strict task-master. And in order to protect His chosen people,
He was forced to destroy some of their enemies. Even so, there are verses such as:
“... you shall love your neighbor as yourself†(Leviticus 19:18)
NT:God’s unconditional love shines through loud and clear.
“You shall love your neighbor as yourself†(Matthew 22:39), love your enemies,
bless those who curse you, lay down your life for your friend, fulfil the Law
by loving other people. “God is love†(1 John 4:8), etc.
Quran: There is a big difference here because of Allah’s conditional love.
There are dozens of verses which say, “Allah does not love those who ___________â€.

#3 -- Quran does NOT carry on with the religion of the Bible, but it says it does in 42:13.
Quran says Allah has given “the same religion†as given to Abraham, Moses, Jesus, etc.
But, this is not true because it condemns some of the Bible’s major doctrines.

#4 -- Quran is NOT free from contradictions (inconsistencies), but it says it is in 4:82.
Some verses praise the Bible, and some verses condemn major doctrines.
Other major contradictions are in points #2 and #3.

#5 -- Quran stories are NOT the same at all as the Torah stories.
How and Why could the original Torah stories be in error?

#6 -- Quran does NOT admit that everyone is a sinner, but obviously everyone is.
In the Bible, many verses say this, and the “original sin†verses explain why it is so.
In the Quran, there are no such verses, it just mentions “those†who choose to sin.

#7 -- Quran does NOT have a plan of salvation that is even close to that of the Injil.
The Bible teaches certain people are saved by God’s gift of grace through faith,
and this is not as a result of any good deeds.

#8 -- Quran does NOT carry on with God’s ancient blood covenants.
OT: Taught that the sacrificial blood of animals shed on the altar
is the sin offering for the atonement (forgiveness)of peoples' sins.
NT:Teaches the sacrificial blood of Jesus Christ on the cross
is the sin offering for the atonement (forgiveness)of peoples' sins,
and this sinless human being was God’s perfect and final blood sacrifice.

#9 -- Islam is NOT nearly as strict as the Bible re: the Ten Commandments.
After the Ten Commandments, man is commanded not to lie, commit adultery or murder,
and there are NO exceptions (unless God specifically orders it, e.g. killing in war).

#10 – “Gabriel†was NOT given the Injil test to determine if he was from God.
The New Testament provides us with a spiritual test in 1 John 4:1-3 for determining if spirits,
angels, etc. are from God or from Satan. We are warned that this is necessary
because “Satan transforms himself into an angel of light†(2 Corinthians 11:14),
and “there is no truth in him ... he is liar and the father of it (lies)†(John 8:44).
The false angel “Moroni†deceived Joseph Smith, resulting in Mormonism.

Good job, John.

 

[Lance_Iguana]

None of the above.
I wrote this for Muslims, and thought it might be interesting to post here also.
It's been corrected.

You did not write this. Unless you have over 10 screen names and have posted on several boards for the last 4 years.

I typed your little title into google and found quite a few hits and check the ones on the just first page. This is a copy paste and you are not the owner.

Nice try.

Here is a link to the google search
http://www.google.com/search?q=10+r...s=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

 

[John Zain]

I'd like to expand just a little on point #10 in the original post #1.

Note1: This is another topic which Muslims choose to ignore.

Note2: Muslims use the word "Injil" to mean different parts of the Bible.
They cannot agree if it means Jesus' gospel, or the whole NT, etc.

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Injil warns that Satan can come as an angel of light.[/FONT]
Injil warns that Satan is the greatest liar and deceiver.
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Injil warns about the coming of false angels.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Injil warns about the coming of false prophets. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Injil warns about the coming of false teachers.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Injil warns about the coming of false gospels.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Injil warns about the coming of false doctrines.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Injil instructs how to test for false angels, false spirits, etc.[/FONT]

What are we to think about all of this?
Better still, what did Mohammed and his buddies think of all of this?
Did they even know about all of this? If so, did they even care?
etc.

 

[Sissy]

Noted Muslim commentator Ibn Kathir’s statements are most interesting. Commenting on S. 3:55, he writes:

"This is what happened. When Allah raised ‘Isa to heaven, his followers divided into sects and groups. Some of them believed in what Allah sent ‘Isa as, a servant of Allah, His Messenger, and the son of His female-servant.

However, some of them went to the extreme over ‘Isa, believing that he was the son of Allah. Some of them said that ‘Isa was Allah Himself, while others said that he was one of a Trinity. Allah mentioned these false creeds in the Qur’an and refuted them. The Christians remained like this until the third century CE, when a Greek king called, Constantine, became a Christian for the purpose of destroying Christianity. Constantine was either a philosopher, or he was just plain ignorant. Constantine changed the religion of ‘Isa by adding to it and deleting from it. He established the rituals of Christianity and the so-called Great Trust which is in fact the Great Treachery. He also allowed them to eat the meat of swine, changed the direction of the prayer that ‘Isa established to the east, built churches for ‘Isa, and added ten days to the fast as compensation for a sin that he committed, as claimed. So the religion of ‘Isa became the religion of Constantine, who built more than twelve thousand churches, temples and monasteries for the Christians as well as the city that bears his name, Constantinople (Istanbul). THROUGHOUT THIS TIME, the Christians had the upper hand and dominated the Jews. ALLAH AIDED THEM AGAINST THE JEWS BECAUSE THEY USED TO BE CLOSER TO THE TRUTH THAN THE JEWS, even though both groups were and still are disbelievers, may Allah’s curse descend on them." (Tafsir Ibn Kathir (Abridged), Volume 2, Parts 3, 4, & 5 (Surat Al-Baqarah, Verse 253, to Surat An-Nisa, Verse 147), abridged by a group of scholars under the supervision of Shaykh Safiur-Rahman Al-Mubarakpuri [Darussalam Publishers & Distributors Riyadh, Houston, New York, Lahore; First Edition: March 2000], p. 171; bold and capital emphasis ours; cf. online edition)

Ibn Kathir’s explanation doesn’t solve the problem since if the Quran is correct then the Christianity that Ibn Kathir attacks is indeed the truth. Otherwise, Ibn Kathir’s comments imply that Allah either allowed a false form of Christianity to prevail, or failed to grant Christ’s true believers dominance over those seeking to pervert the true teachings of Christ!

Another renowned commentary, Al-Qurtubi, says of Surah 61:14:

It was said that THIS VERSE was revealed about the apostles of Jesus, may peace and blessing be upon him. Ibn Ishaq stated that of the apostles and disciples that Jesus sent (to preach) there were Peter AND PAUL who went to Rome; Andrew and Matthew who went to the land of the cannibals; Thomas who went to Babel in the eastern lands; Philip who went to Africa; John went to Dac-sos(?) which is the tribe to whom the sleepers of the cave belonged; Jacob went to Jerusalem; Bartholomew went to the lands of Arabia, specifically Al-Hijaz; Simon who went to the Barbarians; Judas and Barthas(?) who went to Alexandria and its surrounding regions.

Allah supported them (the apostles) with evidence so that they prevailed (thahirin) meaning they became the party with the upper hand. Just as it is said, "An object appeared on the wall" meaning it is clearly visible (alu-wat) on the wall. Allah, who is glorified and exalted, knows the truth better and to Him is the return and retreat. (Source; translated into English by Dimitrius, bold and capital emphasis ours)

Notice how al-Qurtubi had no qualms in admitting that Paul was a legitimate follower of Christ! If al-Qurtubi is correct, then this means that Paul was one of the followers whom God gave the power to overcome the unbelievers and prevail!

That's a big switch from the Muslims on this site that call the servant of Christ, Paul, a big fat liar.

Isaiah 5
(20) Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
​

 

[Mike]

Locking this thread until major reconstructive surgery can be performed. Posts will be deleted and any member who is guilty of violating our ToS will be dealt with.

 

[Mike]

Numerous posts were deleted. Some were in violation of our ToS, and others were responding to those posts. This thread will now be opened up again, and the expectation will be that our ToS are more closely adhered to.

Thank you.

 

[tiwtiwtiw]

After the Ten Commandments, man is commanded not to lie, commit adultery or murder, and there are NO exceptions (unless God specifically orders it, e.g. killing in war).

"NO exceptions" is right. You should stick to that. Regarding the "unless..." God does not command people to murder, God commands them to kill.

You mentioned earlier that Quran is contradicting. This actually weakens your argument by suggesting that God contradicts His own commandments.

Kill: For justice
...is different from
Murder: For selfish motivation

Same can be applied to all other "specifically ordered" by God that seems to violate God's own commandments. It's always our own misunderstanding of God's commandments, not God contradicting Himself.

 

[mcmurry]

Numerous posts were deleted. Some were in violation of our ToS, and others were responding to those posts. This thread will now be opened up again, and the expectation will be that our ToS are more closely adhered to.

Thank you.

Glad I saw this! I couldn't figure out who this person with the Arabic sounding name was, as I didn't see the original post everyone was quoting!

 

[RoadDebris]

Um. . . . no one has the original biblical manuscripts either.

We don't have the original Iliad either. No-one complains about this fact because it doesn't make moral demands on it's readers.

 

[RoadDebris]

Nowhere in the OT does God ever say "I am a Triune God" or even a hint at it

Oy Vey!

As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and lighting on him. And a voice from heaven said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.†- Matt. 3:16-17

 

[Stormcrow]

Nowhere in the OT does God ever say "I am a Triune God" or even a hint at it.

{26} Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth." Genesis 1:26 (NASB)
​

Interesting choice of words, no?

 

[AKJVReader]

Matthew 28:

18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.