1000 year reign

[for_his_glory]

And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives,
Which faces Jerusalem on the east.
And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two,
From east to west,
Making a very large valley;
Half of the mountain shall move toward the north
And half of it toward the south.
Then you shall flee through My mountain valley,
For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal.
Yes, you shall flee
As you fled from the earthquake
In the days of Uzziah king of Judah.
Thus the Lord my God will come,
And all the saints with You.
Zechariah 14:4-5




JLB

Why would the saints of God who are still alive at His coming have to flee? IMO I think this is speaking about the future event that came in 70AD.

I see Zechariah 14 as being prophetic of Jerusalem being destroyed in 70AD and also how Christ will return by the description mentioned in Matthew 24:27 and Acts 1:11 not literally planting His feet on the Mt. of Olives, from the air as He destroys the beast and false prophet and all the nations that followed after them.

The Mt. of Olives has much significance in the OT and NT. King David worshipped God on the summit and later how the Tenth Roman Legion camped on the Mt of Olives when they destroyed Jerusalem in 70AD. Jesus prayed there and taught from the Mt of Olives. It's a place of great Jewish history.

I see the prophetic of Jesus not actually stepping foot on the Mt of Olives, but that He returns with great power and authority as He fights the last battle of the evil stronghold the beast (Satan) has against Jerusalem. Rev 19:11-21

I just have to dig deeper into this one of these days.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

I am talking about two separate resurrections done at the same time per John 5:28, 29 being done on the last day when Christ returns. The two different judgments are they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation as all, which means saint and sinner laying in their graves, will hear the voice of Christ calling them to raise up from their graves.

I just can't understand why you can not simply give me those scriptures that state two different resurrections at two different times. How can we teach if we do not give others the scriptures so they can go and read them.

Revelation 20:6 - Satan Bound

Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection! The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and will reign with Him for a thousand years.

biblehub.com

Do you believe this verse thwt speaks of the first resurection in which those who did not worship the beast or his image and were put to death for thier testimony of Christ?
Do you acknowledge they are resurrected and reign with Christ for 1000 years or do you dispute this?

 

[JLB]

Why would the saints of God who are still alive at His coming have to flee? IMO I think this is speaking about the future event that came in 70AD.

And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives,
Which faces Jerusalem on the east.
And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two,
From east to west,
Making a very large valley;
Half of the mountain shall move toward the north
And half of it toward the south.
Zechariah 14:4



Is the mount of Olives split in two today?



JLB

 

[JLB]

I see Zechariah 14 as being prophetic of Jerusalem being destroyed in 70AD

That’s Preterist Doctrine and is very dangerous.


Then the Lord will go forth
And fight against those nations,
As He fights in the day of battle.
And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives,
Which faces Jerusalem on the east.
And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two...
Zechariah 14:3-4



Did General Titus and the Roman army get destroyed by the Lord in 70 AD?


And this shall be the plague with which the Lord will strike all the people who fought against Jerusalem:
Their flesh shall dissolve while they stand on their feet,
Their eyes shall dissolve in their sockets,
And their tongues shall dissolve in their mouths.
Zechariah 14:12


As I recall, He returned to Rome as a conqueror and went on to become Emperor of Rome.




JLB

 

[JLB]

Why would the saints of God who are still alive at His coming have to flee?

All the saints of God will be gathered together in the air, in the clouds at His coming, both the resurrected ones and the raptured ones.



Those who flee are Jews who are fleeing from the armies that the surround Jerusalem, that the Lord is fighting for.


Behold, the day of the Lord is coming,
And your spoil will be divided in your midst.
For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem;
The city shall be taken,
The houses rifled,
And the women ravished.
Half of the city shall go into captivity,
But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
Then the Lord will go forth
And fight against those nations,
As He fights in the day of battle.
And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives...
Zechariah 14:1-4




JLB

 

[Nathan12]

And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives...

This passage is about the Second Coming of Christ, not the Rapture. Now contrast this with the Rapture: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. (1 Thess 4:17)

To say the least, it would be bizarre if Christ comes to bring salvation to His saints on the same day as He brings damnation to His enemies. Particularly when there is a proper sequence of events involved.

Not only that, but you are consistently ignoring the Marriage of the Lamb when you keep blending everything into a mishmash. Not to mention the Judgment Seat of Christ before the Marriage, which can only be fulfilled when all the saints are in Heaven.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

This passage is about the Second Coming of Christ, not the Rapture. Now contrast this with the Rapture: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. (1 Thess 4:17)

To say the least, it would be bizarre if Christ comes to bring salvation to His saints on the same day as He brings damnation to His enemies. Particularly when there is a proper sequence of events involved.

Not only that, but you are consistently ignoring the Marriage of the Lamb when you keep blending everything into a mishmash. Not to mention the Judgment Seat of Christ before the Marriage, which can only be fulfilled when all the saints are in Heaven.

Theres nothing bizzare about letting both the wheat and weeds grow together utill the harvest.Then gather the weeds to be burned and gather the wheat into the barn.
Jesus said that is how it will be.

 

[Randy]

I could understand it if you were to give the scriptures I have asked you to give that say there are two resurrection at two different times, but you have yet to show me them.

Yes, in regard to two
no, in regard to two of the saints.
There is one resurrection of the saints as you correctly noted. (of us all)
Therefore those not raised on that day must be those who suffer.
There is one resurrection of the "unrighteous" a 1000 years later and you know the scripture that states so about a later resurrection.
The beast and false prophet are thrown into the lake of fire at Jesus's 2nd coming.
Satan is not. He is bound for those 1000 years.

So clearly because of the testimony given in REV I am premil. And as noted elsewhere post trib as I do hold to a pretrib or midtrib rapture. (harvest)

The book of Rev is one of the most hotly contested in regard to meaning of those who have eyes to see.

I add my understanding into the mix for all but rather not spend two weeks and countless replies debating literal vs figurative meanings.

 

[Nathan12]

Theres nothing bizzare about letting both the wheat and weeds grow together utill the harvest.Then gather the weeds to be burned and gather the wheat into the barn. Jesus said that is how it will be.

And that needs to be properly interpreted in the light of all Scripture. According to you Jesus would be says "Never mind about the Judgment Seat of Christ and the Marriage of the Lamb. We will have the Resurrection/Rapture, the Second Coming, the Battle of Armageddon, and the establishment of the Millennium all in one day". Some would even include the Great White Throne Judgment on that Day to hurry things up!

 

[Randy]

So clearly because of the testimony given in REV I am premil. And as noted elsewhere post trib as I do hold to a pretrib or midtrib rapture. (harvest)

This should have been
So clearly because of the testimony given in REV I am premil. And as noted elsewhere I am post trib as I do NOT hold to a pretrib or midtrib rapture. (harvest)

 

[for_his_glory]

Yes, in regard to two
no, in regard to two of the saints.
There is one resurrection of the saints as you correctly noted. (of us all)
Therefore those not raised on that day must be those who suffer.
There is one resurrection of the "unrighteous" a 1000 years later and you know the scripture that states so about a later resurrection.
The beast and false prophet are thrown into the lake of fire at Jesus's 2nd coming.
Satan is not. He is bound for those 1000 years.

So clearly because of the testimony given in REV I am premil. And as noted elsewhere post trib as I do hold to a pretrib or midtrib rapture. (harvest)

The book of Rev is one of the most hotly contested in regard to meaning of those who have eyes to see.

I add my understanding into the mix for all but rather not spend two weeks and countless replies debating literal vs figurative meanings.

There lays our indifference's because as I do not see it as being a literal 1000 years but only symbolic in it's numbering like that of Deuteronomy 7:9; 1Chronicles 16:15; Psalms 50:10; 90:4; 105:8 Ecc 6:6; 7:28; Daniel 5:1; 2Peter 3:8.

Well, you and I have been round and round on this many times, but yet you nor anyone else can answer a question I have. Here is that question.

According to Rev 19:11-21 Jesus returns on the last day and destroys the beast and false prophet casting them into the lake of fire and then destroys all that have followed after the beast and false prophet taking it's mark. Also at this time the saints, in the grave and alive at His coming, are caught up to meet Him in the air. Satan is bound for a 1000 years.

The question is what are we going to be doing in the air for a literal 1000 years as we will not be coming back to this present earth until it is renewed and the New Jerusalem is ushered down. What is the purpose of a literal 1000 years? Does anyone really think that God will wait another 1000 years after Satan is bound before He ushers down the New Jerusalem?

 

[for_his_glory]

That’s Preterist Doctrine and is very dangerous.

I don't even know what Preterist doctrine is. It's like I said, I see Zechariah 14 as prophecy given for the destruction of Jerusalem that was fulfilled in 70AD. But yet a prophecy connection to Jesus returning in the air and destroying that which reigns evil in Jerusalem.

Upon His second coming Jesus destroys the the enemy that stands before the saints that have always persecuted His people. The enemy is the beast and the false prophet whom Jesus will cast into the lake of fire and will then slain all the world leaders and those who followed after the beast and took its mark. This is all done while Jesus is in the air as it never mentions Him actually setting foot on the Mt of Olives and telling the saints to flee when He returns. Why would the saints flee when they see Jesus coming with the clouds in the air. Don't you think they would run towards Him!

 

[Nathan12]

According to Rev 19:11-21 Jesus returns on the last day and destroys the beast and false prophet casting them into the lake of fire and then destroys all that have followed after the beast and false prophet taking it's mark.

This is not "the last day" but the first day of the Second Coming of Christ to earth (which is guaranteed in Scripture). This will begin the 1,000 year reign of Christ (and there is no reason in the world to regard this as symbolic of anything else). It is a real, literal, one thousand years (repeated six times in seven verses).

You asked "What is the purpose of a literal one thousand year reign?" There are several critical reasons for the Millennium:
1. Ever since the Fall Satan has been deceiving the world and inciting sin and rebellion. That will come to a halt. There will be no evil or evildoers on earth. If that is not reason enough, then nothing is. Christ will rule "with a rod of iron" which means nothing evil will be tolerated.
2. The world has never seen the literal reign of Christ on earth, wherein there will be universal peace and righteousness. What we have on earth today is an unmitigated disaster spiritually, politically, and economically. The earth will be totally transformed under Christ, and will experience that for 1,000 years, as a prelude to the eternal Kingdom of God on earth.
3. God has promised to redeem and restore the kingdom of Israel, the believing remnant of Jews after the Second Coming, and then establish the 12 tribes in the land of greater Israel. Israel will finally be the nation which God planned -- regenerated, and totally obedient to God and Christ.
4. There will be saved nations surrounding redeemed Israel. All sinners and rebels will have been destroyed at the Second Coming, along with the Beast and the False Prophet.

Anyway I will address your question further.

The question is what are we going to be doing in the air for a literal 1000 years as we will not be coming back to this present earth until it is renewed and the New Jerusalem is ushered down.

1. Christians will not be floating in the air. Their permanent and eternal home will be in the New Jerusalem.
2. Christ will give Christians governmental responsibilities to rule on earth. We do not have all the details, which will be revealed at the right time.
3. Whether Christians will *teleport* themselves from earth to Heaven (and back) at will is not disclosed, but they will have important business on earth. Some may have rule over cities, others over provinces, others over larger areas. We will know all this later.
4. The New Jerusalem is a cubic city the size of a continent (1500 cubic miles). Therefore it will not be placed on earth but will orbit over the earth as a heavenly body giving light to the earth. But this happens only after the New Heavens and the New Earth are established.

The Scriptures to support all this are in the Bible. We simply have to believe what God has revealed (which is certainly not the whole story).

 

[for_his_glory]

Revelation 20:6 - Satan Bound

Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection! The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and will reign with Him for a thousand years.

biblehub.com

Do you believe this verse thwt speaks of the first resurection in which those who did not worship the beast or his image and were put to death for thier testimony of Christ?
Do you acknowledge they are resurrected and reign with Christ for 1000 years or do you dispute this?

John 5:28 Marvel not at this for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. 30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

In the first resurrection coincides with those who are raised first unto the resurrection of life while the second part of the resurrection will be of the second death being that of damnation. Same day, same hour, two different resurrected results.

 

[for_his_glory]

This is not "the last day" but the first day of the Second Coming of Christ to earth (which is guaranteed in Scripture). This will begin the 1,000 year reign of Christ (and there is no reason in the world to regard this as symbolic of anything else). It is a real, literal, one thousand years (repeated six times in seven verses).

You asked "What is the purpose of a literal one thousand year reign?" There are several critical reasons for the Millennium:
1. Ever since the Fall Satan has been deceiving the world and inciting sin and rebellion. That will come to a halt. There will be no evil or evildoers on earth. If that is not reason enough, then nothing is. Christ will rule "with a rod of iron" which means nothing evil will be tolerated.
2. The world has never seen the literal reign of Christ on earth, wherein there will be universal peace and righteousness. What we have on earth today is an unmitigated disaster spiritually, politically, and economically. The earth will be totally transformed under Christ, and will experience that for 1,000 years, as a prelude to the eternal Kingdom of God on earth.
3. God has promised to redeem and restore the kingdom of Israel, the believing remnant of Jews after the Second Coming, and then establish the 12 tribes in the land of greater Israel. Israel will finally be the nation which God planned -- regenerated, and totally obedient to God and Christ.
4. There will be saved nations surrounding redeemed Israel. All sinners and rebels will have been destroyed at the Second Coming, along with the Beast and the False Prophet.

Anyway I will address your question further.

1. Christians will not be floating in the air. Their permanent and eternal home will be in the New Jerusalem.
2. Christ will give Christians governmental responsibilities to rule on earth. We do not have all the details, which will be revealed at the right time.
3. Whether Christians will *teleport* themselves from earth to Heaven (and back) at will is not disclosed, but they will have important business on earth. Some may have rule over cities, others over provinces, others over larger areas. We will know all this later.
4. The New Jerusalem is a cubic city the size of a continent (1500 cubic miles). Therefore it will not be placed on earth but will orbit over the earth as a heavenly body giving light to the earth. But this happens only after the New Heavens and the New Earth are established.

The Scriptures to support all this are in the Bible. We simply have to believe what God has revealed (which is certainly not the whole story).

I really can not address any of this unless you present the scriptures to support what you are saying. Anyone can say the supporting scriptures are in the Bible, but if you are not going to give those scriptures so others can read and study them then I am not going to believe what you say. I take no mans word for anything they teach unless they have scriptural proof.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

John 5:28 Marvel not at this for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. 30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

In the first resurrection coincides with those who are raised first unto the resurrection of life while the second part of the resurrection will be of the second death being that of damnation. Same day, same hour, two different resurrected results.

I guess you dispute the verse then because it didnt say all of that which you had added to the verse.

Revelation 20:6 - Satan Bound

Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection! The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and will reign with Him for a thousand years.

biblehub.com

Personally i like the verse just as it is without adding to it.Now if you didnt like that verse or the verses before it you definately wouldnt like the one following it.

 

[Randy]

There lays our indifference's because as I do not see it as being a literal 1000 years but only symbolic in it's numbering like that of Deuteronomy 7:9; 1Chronicles 16:15; Psalms 50:10; 90:4; 105:8 Ecc 6:6; 7:28; Daniel 5:1; 2Peter 3:8.

Well, you and I have been round and round on this many times, but yet you nor anyone else can answer a question I have. Here is that question.

According to Rev 19:11-21 Jesus returns on the last day and destroys the beast and false prophet casting them into the lake of fire and then destroys all that have followed after the beast and false prophet taking it's mark. Also at this time the saints, in the grave and alive at His coming, are caught up to meet Him in the air. Satan is bound for a 1000 years.

The question is what are we going to be doing in the air for a literal 1000 years as we will not be coming back to this present earth until it is renewed and the New Jerusalem is ushered down. What is the purpose of a literal 1000 years? Does anyone really think that God will wait another 1000 years after Satan is bound before He ushers down the New Jerusalem?

I think we will be on earth during those 1000 years. As in a bodily resurrection. Yes as I read I do believe in a 1000 year period between Satan being bound and released to deceive the nations the saints are ruling over to attack Jerusalem. Those nations will be destroyed. No one is left but God and His children. Then the end will come, when Jesus hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.

Randy

 

[Shilohsfoal]

I think we will be on earth during those 1000 years. As in a bodily resurrection. Yes as I read I do believe in a 1000 year period between Satan being bound and released to deceive the nations the saints are ruling over to attack Jerusalem. Those nations will be destroyed. No one is left but God and His children. Then the end will come, when Jesus hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.

Randy

Have you ever paid attention to just who it is that is resurrected in the first resurrection?
Its not everyone.Its not even all christians.It only mentions those who died because of thier testimony of Christ ,whohad not worshiped the beast.

Revelation 20:4 - Satan Bound

Then I saw the thrones, and those seated on them had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image, and had not received its mark on their foreheads or...

biblehub.com

It doesnt mention the billions of other Christians who have died before the beast had reappeared.It doesnt mention all the christians who had died of natural causes over the last 2000 years.It only mentions those who had died for thier witness of Jesus and who had not worshiped the beast.

 

[Randy]

Have you ever paid attention to just who it is that is resurrected in the first resurrection?
Its not everyone.Its not even all christians.It only mentions those who died because of thier testimony of Christ ,whohad not worshiped the beast.

Revelation 20:4 - Satan Bound

Then I saw the thrones, and those seated on them had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image, and had not received its mark on their foreheads or...

biblehub.com

It doesnt mention the billions of other Christians who have died before the beast had reappeared.It doesnt mention all the christians who had died of natural causes over the last 2000 years.It only mentions those who had died for thier witness of Jesus and who had not worshiped the beast.

Jesus stated He would gather from the ends of the earth to the ends of the heavens.
It was well understood and taught that was on the last day the resurrection of us all and it was a bodily resurrection. Therefore those not raised on that day must be those that suffer.

But if I am unable to convince you the two witnesses in Rev are of God then a doubt I will change your outlook in this matter.

 

[JLB]

I don't even know what Preterist doctrine is. It's like I said, I see Zechariah 14 as prophecy given for the destruction of Jerusalem that was fulfilled in 70AD.

Well, as I pointed out, Zechariah 14 is certainly not about 70 AD.


In Zechariah 14, the Lord Jesus destroys the surrounding armies that He has gathered for the Day of the Lord.


In 70 AD the Romans destroyed the city and went home as conquering hero’s.


The Day of the Lord is when Jesus Christ returns to gather His people at the resurrection and rapture in which He destroys the wicked, putting an end to all other rule and authority, in which He takes His throne in Jerusalem as King over the whole earth.


Obviously this did not happen in 70 AD.


And the Lord shall be King over all the earth.
In that day it shall be—
“The Lord is one,”
And His name one.
Zechariah 14:9



JLB