119 Ministries

[JLB]

The Passover lamb wasn't about salvation. In fact, salvation, Heaven and eternal life aren't mentioned in the law. That's not what it's about. It's about how to live life hear on earth. You really should learn more before you start criticizing.

The problem with your "understanding", The Law is for the lawless.

God gave us His Spirit to leads us in the paths of righteousness.

Abraham walked with God, in His presence, and obeyed His Voice. No written Law.

You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. John 5:39


JLB

 

[JLB]

Take away the shadows and you have the Light of World.

 

[Ryan]

[MENTION=90220]JLB[/MENTION] did you realize what you are so vehemently opposed to, is right in line with the lawless one?

Daniel 7:25
He will speak out against the Most High and wear down the saints of the Highest One, and he will intend to make alterations in times and in law; and they will be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time.

Matthew 24:12
Because lawlessness is increased, most people’s love will grow cold.

1 John 3:4
Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness.

Matthew 7:21-23 21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. 22 Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.’


I just wanted to make sure you knew what you were doing before you got going again. I strongly urge you to be very cautious about what you are saying and telling others.

You are essentially telling people to not walk in Jesus's footsteps. Did you know that?

 

[JLB]

@JLB did you realize what you are so vehemently opposed to, is right in line with the lawless one? Daniel 7:25 He will speak out against the Most High and wear down the saints of the Highest One, and he will intend to make alterations in times and in law; and they will be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time.

When this Lawless one goes to the Temple in Jerusalem, posing as the Messiah, He will put an end to sacrifice and offering.

He will come under the guise of the Law of Moses, the Temple and the animal sacrifices.

Judaism, and the men who follow that religion, as well as the "offshoots" such as Messianic Judaism, who teach that we should keep the Law of Moses, will be the driving force behind this deception.

Returning to the Law of Moses, when the Messiah has come and fulfilled all the Law, is the very definition of "doing what is right in your own eyes", which is what lawlessness is.

I have actually had a moderator from Psalm 119 ministries say to me, that if there was a temple he would go and offer animal sacrifices.

This is when they had the old format, when you could dialog with them on an open Forum.

The Lawless one will confirm a covenant that will give the authority to the Jews to build another Temple for the purpose of sacrificing animals, then he will put an end to sacrifice and offering.

Lawlessness is trying to establish your own righteousness, by changing God's Kingdom Law.

Which the essence of doing what is right in your own eyes.

as it is written -

1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is that they may be saved. 2 For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. 3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes. 5 For Moses writes about the righteousness which is of the law, "The man who does those things shall live by them." Romans 10:1-5


JLB

 

[Elijah674]

if a Jewish Rabbis is unsaved then how can he possibly make disciples?





Brother, that is not even close to what I said.

Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. (I John 3:4 KJV) That's right. The very definition of sin is disobedience to God's law.

So if a ministry says that the reason that they teach people to keep the Law of Moses is not for Salvation, but rather to obey God, that is the same as saying if you don't keep Moses Law it is sin.

Which is exactly the point I am trying to make with you.

They are making the keeping of the Law of Moses a requirement for being righteous before God, For not keeping the Law would be sin.


JLB

Well now, the reason that I follow Christ is because I LOVE HIM! Who that does so will go against his will??? (NO ONE!)

And you talk of Moses law to death! The Eternal Ten Commandments are NOT THE law of Moses! Heb. 13:20 They are long long & LONG before Moses was thought of! (except in for/knowledge)

--Elijah

 

[Ryan]

@JLB did you realize what you are so vehemently opposed to, is right in line with the lawless one? Daniel 7:25 He will speak out against the Most High and wear down the saints of the Highest One, and he will intend to make alterations in times and in law; and they will be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time.

When this Lawless one goes to the Temple in Jerusalem, posing as the Messiah, He will put an end to sacrifice and offering.

He will come under the guise of the Law of Moses, the Temple and the animal sacrifices.

Judaism, and the men who follow that religion, as well as the "offshoots" such as Messianic Judaism, who teach that we should keep the Law of Moses, will be the driving force behind this deception.

Returning to the Law of Moses, when the Messiah has come and fulfilled all the Law, is the very definition of "doing what is right in your own eyes", which is what lawlessness is.

I have actually had a moderator from Psalm 119 ministries say to me, that if there was a temple he would go and offer animal sacrifices.

This is when they had the old format, when you could dialog with them on an open Forum.

The Lawless one will confirm a covenant that will give the authority to the Jews to build another Temple for the purpose of sacrificing animals, then he will put an end to sacrifice and offering.

Lawlessness is trying to establish your own righteousness, by changing God's Kingdom Law.

Which the essence of doing what is right in your own eyes.

as it is written -

1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is that they may be saved. 2 For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. 3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes. 5 For Moses writes about the righteousness which is of the law, "The man who does those things shall live by them." Romans 10:1-5


JLB

My mouth is wide open and cannot believe you just said the things you just said. The Torahless one will come out of a movement that has at its foundation Torah? Can you really see the absurdity of what you just said? Your blinders are so binded shut that you cannot see the truth.

"Doing what is right in your own eyes" is actually in the bible. Did you know that smack dab in the very centre of the bible is a Psalm that speaks to what you just said. Of another note, the shortest chapter in the bible is Psalm 117. The longest is? You guessed it, Psalm 119. So what is the exact middle verse in the bible JLB?

Psalm 118:8 It is better to take refuge in Adonai than to trust in human beings;

I find it incredible that people who are putting their trust in God to live by his ways, you are saying that is now completely backwards? That is now evil to do so? This was prophecied as well.

Isaiah 5:20 Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil; Who substitute darkness for light and light for darkness; Who substitute bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter!

You are literally walking out prophecy before my eyes, yet you cannot see the error of your ways, thoughts, views, etc. I pray you do not turn people from the truth, because the truth is very far away from your lips at the moment.

 

[JLB]

@JLB did you realize what you are so vehemently opposed to, is right in line with the lawless one? Daniel 7:25 He will speak out against the Most High and wear down the saints of the Highest One, and he will intend to make alterations in times and in law; and they will be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time.

When this Lawless one goes to the Temple in Jerusalem, posing as the Messiah, He will put an end to sacrifice and offering.

He will come under the guise of the Law of Moses, the Temple and the animal sacrifices.

Judaism, and the men who follow that religion, as well as the "offshoots" such as Messianic Judaism, who teach that we should keep the Law of Moses, will be the driving force behind this deception.

Returning to the Law of Moses, when the Messiah has come and fulfilled all the Law, is the very definition of "doing what is right in your own eyes", which is what lawlessness is.

I have actually had a moderator from Psalm 119 ministries say to me, that if there was a temple he would go and offer animal sacrifices.

This is when they had the old format, when you could dialog with them on an open Forum.

The Lawless one will confirm a covenant that will give the authority to the Jews to build another Temple for the purpose of sacrificing animals, then he will put an end to sacrifice and offering.

Lawlessness is trying to establish your own righteousness, by changing God's Kingdom Law.

Which the essence of doing what is right in your own eyes.

as it is written -

1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is that they may be saved. 2 For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. 3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes. 5 For Moses writes about the righteousness which is of the law, "The man who does those things shall live by them." Romans 10:1-5


JLB

My mouth is wide open and cannot believe you just said the things you just said. The Torahless one will come out of a movement that has at its foundation Torah? Can you really see the absurdity of what you just said? Your blinders are so binded shut that you cannot see the truth.

"Doing what is right in your own eyes" is actually in the bible. Did you know that smack dab in the very centre of the bible is a Psalm that speaks to what you just said. Of another note, the shortest chapter in the bible is Psalm 117. The longest is? You guessed it, Psalm 119. So what is the exact middle verse in the bible JLB?

Psalm 118:8 It is better to take refuge in Adonai than to trust in human beings;

I find it incredible that people who are putting their trust in God to live by his ways, you are saying that is now completely backwards? That is now evil to do so? This was prophecied as well.

Isaiah 5:20 Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil; Who substitute darkness for light and light for darkness; Who substitute bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter!

You are literally walking out prophecy before my eyes, yet you cannot see the error of your ways, thoughts, views, etc. I pray you do not turn people from the truth, because the truth is very far away from your lips at the moment.

Brother, you opened up this line of dialog, not me.

@JLB did you realize what you are so vehemently opposed to, is right in line with the lawless one?

The Lawless one will be embraced by Jews who have conspired to build another Temple.

Judaism will embrace this Lawless one because they refuse to love the truth.


Will the Lawless one go to a Temple in Jerusalem?

Will the Lawless in fact be a Jew who is embraced by the Jews, and accepted as the Jewish Messiah.

Will the Lawless one confirm a covenant with many that will allow animal sacrifices?

Establishing their own righteousness in Lawlessness.

1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is that they may be saved. 2 For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. 3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes. Romans 10:1-4

You might want to consider what Paul said of those who turn back to the Law.

You might want to consider that it was the religion of Judaism and its followers, that murdered Christ Jesus.

It doesn't get any more anti Christ than that.

Something for you to think about before you start in condemning me again.


JLB

 

[Ryan]

[MENTION=90220]JLB[/MENTION] thank you for letting me know where your heart and mind is at. In Jesus's own words:

John 10:11-18 11 “I am the good shepherd; the good shepherd lays down His life for the sheep. 12 He who is a hired hand, and not a shepherd, who is not the owner of the sheep, sees the wolf coming, and leaves the sheep and flees, and the wolf snatches them and scatters them. 13 He flees because he is a hired hand and is not concerned about the sheep. 14 I am the good shepherd, and I know My own and My own know Me, 15 even as the Father knows Me and I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep. 16 I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will hear My voice; and they will become one flock with one shepherd. 17 For this reason the Father loves Me, because I lay down My life so that I may take it again. 18 No one has taken it away from Me, but I lay it down on My own initiative. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This commandment I received from My Father.”

You still have absolutely no idea who really killed Christ? WE DID! YOU DID! I DID! We all had a part in his death. Your anti-semitism is so clear now it is beyond words and explanation. When a brother is wrong, they are wrong and I am pointing out the error of your thinking. Not my place to condemn, but to point out error and hope I have gained a brother.

Let's think about it this way. You committed a crime and sentenced to death. You are in the firing line ready to be executed and Jesus pushes you out of the way and says I will die for you. Do you care anymore about which people were in the firing squad, or more eternally grateful for the one that took the bullet for you?

 

[Ryan]

Brother me. The lawless one will be one who preaches against following God's law, not those who teach and keep it.

Romans 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the Law sin? May it never be! On the contrary, I would not have come to know sin except through the Law; for I would not have known about coveting if the Law had not said, “You shall not covet.”

Yet you are saying it is now sinful to follow the law. Misguided and misinformed.

 

[JLB]

[MENTION=90220]JLB[/MENTION] thank you for letting me know where your heart and mind is at. In Jesus's own words:

John 10:11-18 11 “I am the good shepherd; the good shepherd lays down His life for the sheep. 12 He who is a hired hand, and not a shepherd, who is not the owner of the sheep, sees the wolf coming, and leaves the sheep and flees, and the wolf snatches them and scatters them. 13 He flees because he is a hired hand and is not concerned about the sheep. 14 I am the good shepherd, and I know My own and My own know Me, 15 even as the Father knows Me and I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep. 16 I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will hear My voice; and they will become one flock with one shepherd. 17 For this reason the Father loves Me, because I lay down My life so that I may take it again. 18 No one has taken it away from Me, but I lay it down on My own initiative. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This commandment I received from My Father.”

You still have absolutely no idea who really killed Christ? WE DID! YOU DID! I DID! We all had a part in his death. Your anti-semitism is so clear now it is beyond words and explanation. When a brother is wrong, they are wrong and I am pointing out the error of your thinking. Not my place to condemn, but to point out error and hope I have gained a brother.

Let's think about it this way. You committed a crime and sentenced to death. You are in the firing line ready to be executed and Jesus pushes you out of the way and says I will die for you. Do you care anymore about which people were in the firing squad, or more eternally grateful for the one that took the bullet for you?

27 And when they had brought them, they set them before the council. And the high priest asked them, 28 saying, "Did we not strictly command you not to teach in this name? And look, you have filled Jerusalem with your doctrine, and intend to bring this Man's blood on us!" 29 But Peter and the other apostles answered and said: "We ought to obey God rather than men. 30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus whom you murdered by hanging on a tree. Acts 5:27-30



JLB

 

[JLB]

Brother me. The lawless one will be one who preaches against following God's law, not those who teach and keep it.

Romans 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the Law sin? May it never be! On the contrary, I would not have come to know sin except through the Law; for I would not have known about coveting if the Law had not said, “You shall not covet.”

Yet you are saying it is now sinful to follow the law. Misguided and misinformed.

I am saying that obedience is the standard of righteousness.

I am saying obedience is the primary element of faith.

I am say the Law is not of faith.

I am saying without faith it is impossible to please God.

I am saying Christ is the end of the Law for righteousness.

Trying to keep the Law of Moses will not make you righteous, saved, justified, healed, delivered.


JLB

 

[Ryan]

The Jews had no authority to kill Jesus. Hence bringing him to Pontius. It was the Romans who crucified him. But what was the greater sin? Condemning in their hearts the Messiah, or carrying out the physical act itself of nailing an innocent man to the cross?

You are taking Peter's words over Jesus's when Jesus said clearly that "No one has taken it away from Me, but I lay it down on My own initiative. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again." Jesus is speaking to you JLB not to blame the Jews because he laid down his life on his own volition. Yet, you want to continue to perpetuate this hatred towards the Jews for killing the Christ. Hatred is at the core of that thinking, plain and simple. We ALL had a part of the crucifixion. Mankind did, not a religion, group, ethnic race or whatever.

Maybe put into context what Peter was saying to the Council. At the very least, do not put Peter's words to be in contradiction to Jesus's. Same thing you do with Paul. You have no idea the context of what Paul is telling the readers of the Epistle's and you distort them because you don't understand the background of what and where Paul is teaching from. Paul was a Torah observant Jew till the day he died, and he taught only from the OT. He didn't create a new theology or way to live. He was providing commentary and interpretation of OT principles to Gentiles who had no knowledge of Torah. Yet when something doesn't add up that isn't in line with Words that came out of Jesus's mouth, or out of God's mouth, we use Paul as the final authority. Not God or Jesus. That is your error, thinking Paul taught contrary to the Law of Moses, which was Jesus made flesh, instead of trying to reconcile Paul's words so they are in line with the Word's from God and Jesus.

 

[reba]

Reading through some of the AM posts ,, I am reminding you of the ToS.

2.4: No Trolling. Do not make an inflammatory remark just to get a response. Address issues not personalities. Respect where people are in their spiritual walk, and respect all others in general. Respect where others are in their spiritual walk, do not disrupt the flow of discussion or act in a way that affects others negatively including when debating doctrinal issues, in the defense of the Christian faith, and in offering unwelcome spiritual advice.
Not necessarily directed at the last poster.

 

[TOG]

Luk_22:19 And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.

Jews have blessings for practically every situation. There is an ancient blessing that is said before every meal that includes bread. It is so old, that Jesus probably said it before each meal. If we insert the blessing before they ate the bread, it would have gone something like this...

Blessed are you, Lord our God, King of the universe, who causes bread to spring forth from the earth.
This bread is my body...
​

Is it just me, or does somebody else see the resurrection in there?

The TOG
​

 

[JLB]

The Jews had no authority to kill Jesus. Hence bringing him to Pontius. It was the Romans who crucified him. But what was the greater sin? Condemning in their hearts the Messiah, or carrying out the physical act itself of nailing an innocent man to the cross?

You are taking Peter's words over Jesus's when Jesus said clearly that "No one has taken it away from Me, but I lay it down on My own initiative. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again." Jesus is speaking to you JLB not to blame the Jews because he laid down his life on his own volition. Yet, you want to continue to perpetuate this hatred towards the Jews for killing the Christ. Hatred is at the core of that thinking, plain and simple. We ALL had a part of the crucifixion. Mankind did, not a religion, group, ethnic race or whatever.

Maybe put into context what Peter was saying to the Council. At the very least, do not put Peter's words to be in contradiction to Jesus's. Same thing you do with Paul. You have no idea the context of what Paul is telling the readers of the Epistle's and you distort them because you don't understand the background of what and where Paul is teaching from. Paul was a Torah observant Jew till the day he died, and he taught only from the OT. He didn't create a new theology or way to live. He was providing commentary and interpretation of OT principles to Gentiles who had no knowledge of Torah. Yet when something doesn't add up that isn't in line with Words that came out of Jesus's mouth, or out of God's mouth, we use Paul as the final authority. Not God or Jesus. That is your error, thinking Paul taught contrary to the Law of Moses, which was Jesus made flesh, instead of trying to reconcile Paul's words so they are in line with the Word's from God and Jesus.

Could you answer any of these questions, or comment on any of these statements.

The Lawless one will be embraced by Jews who have conspired to build another Temple.

Judaism will embrace this Lawless one because they refuse to love the truth.


Will the Lawless one go to a Temple in Jerusalem?

Will the Lawless in fact be a Jew who is embraced by the Jews, and accepted as the Jewish Messiah.

Will the Lawless one confirm a covenant with many that will allow animal sacrifices?

Establishing their own righteousness in Lawlessness.


JLB

 

[JLB]

[MENTION=90220]JLB[/MENTION] thank you for letting me know where your heart and mind is at. In Jesus's own words:

John 10:11-18 11 “I am the good shepherd; the good shepherd lays down His life for the sheep. 12 He who is a hired hand, and not a shepherd, who is not the owner of the sheep, sees the wolf coming, and leaves the sheep and flees, and the wolf snatches them and scatters them. 13 He flees because he is a hired hand and is not concerned about the sheep. 14 I am the good shepherd, and I know My own and My own know Me, 15 even as the Father knows Me and I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep. 16 I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will hear My voice; and they will become one flock with one shepherd. 17 For this reason the Father loves Me, because I lay down My life so that I may take it again. 18 No one has taken it away from Me, but I lay it down on My own initiative. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This commandment I received from My Father.â€

You still have absolutely no idea who really killed Christ? WE DID! YOU DID! I DID! We all had a part in his death. Your anti-semitism is so clear now it is beyond words and explanation. When a brother is wrong, they are wrong and I am pointing out the error of your thinking. Not my place to condemn, but to point out error and hope I have gained a brother.

Let's think about it this way. You committed a crime and sentenced to death. You are in the firing line ready to be executed and Jesus pushes you out of the way and says I will die for you. Do you care anymore about which people were in the firing squad, or more eternally grateful for the one that took the bullet for you?

I believe we are called to walk with God in righteousness, as Abraham did, and obey His voice, His commandments, statutes and laws.

You will find this to be the central theme of my post's.

If you consider this to be the work of Lawlessness, then you are certainly entitled to your opinion.

JLB

 

[Deborah13]

Let's think about it this way. You committed a crime and sentenced to death. You are in the firing line ready to be executed and Jesus pushes you out of the way and says I will die for you. Do you care anymore about which people were in the firing squad, or more eternally grateful for the one that took the bullet for you?

Ryan, can one believe with faith in the saving blood of our Lord Jesus AND participate in lamb/bullock blood atonement for sin sacrifices, as well?

Which one is their atonement for sin? Which one is their faith in?

Hebrews 10:28-29 Orthodox Jewish Bible
28 Anyone who was doiche (rejecting or setting aside) the Torah of Moshe Rabbeinu, upon the dvar of SHNI EDIM O AL PI SHLOSHA EDIM ("Testimony of two or three witnesses" DEVARIM 19:15), dies without rachamim.
29 By how much worse onesh (penalty) do you think the one will be considered worthy who trampled on the Ben HaElohim and also treated as mechallel kodesh (profane) the Dahm HaBrit which set him apart mekudash and also committed Chillul Hashem gidduf against the Ruach Hakodesh of Hashem’s chesed?
30 For we have da’as of the One who said, LI NAKAM V’SHILEM ("Vengeance is mine and I will repay") [DEVARIM 32:35] and again YADIN HASHEM AMMO ("The L-rd will judge his people" DEVARIM 32:36).

KJV
28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.

Any Messianic who would do this is breaking the blood convent he/she has been made a part of, in Christ.
I think you know I do not hate the Jews or the Torah. The Torah gave me the best image of what actually transpired at the Cross. There is so much understanding in the OT, it is good and holy, it is of God. But not to the putting away of the Cross. When I read Torah I am always looking to how it points me to the Messiah, Jesus. Who has the very nature, character of the Abba Father.

May He bless you and keep you, in His peace.

 

[Ryan]

I just learned there is a principle in Jewish literature called "The Light to the Heavy." Or a smaller truth and bigger truth. The smaller truth is that anyone who rejects or disobeys the Torah dies without mercy based on the testimony of two to three credible witnesses. The writer is referring to those commandments in the Torah that carry the death penalty such as abducting a slave and selling them. And only after a legitimate trial as prescribed by Torah of course. The bigger truth is those who have rejected Jesus and his sacrifice will more severely punished then physical death, the consequence will be eternally punished. That is what the understanding of those passages are, not to rebuke those still offering sacrifices.
[MENTION=93058]Deborah13[/MENTION] the sacrifice of bulls and goats never, ever took away sin. If it did, Jesus died needlessly. If Jesus was the fulfillment of the sacrifices in the Levitical system, then all the more reason to study what he fulfilled. There was never a sacrifice for an intentional sin. The only remedy was repentance, or teshuvah which is sadly misunderstood in our thinking and we have removed ourselves from the origin of that word and what it meant.

What was John the Baptist's words to the Pharisees and Sadduccees? It was repent or teshuvah. What was Paul's words to the unbelieving Gentiles? Believe. Paul didn't tell them to teshuvah because they would of had no concept of what teshuvah meant. And I would say most of Christianity doesn't have an idea what this means as well. Repentance doesn't have the idea of answering an altar call, confessing sins, bawling on the pastor's shoulder just to return back to the sinful behaviours we just confessed. Teshuvah at it's foundation is found in the root shov first mentioned in Genesis 3:19 it is used twice. This is the foundational setting for what true repentance truly means, it means to return back to where you came from. 2 Corinthians 7:10 is teaching Gentiles now they are believers, the concept of repentance.

Shov also has the idea to restore as in Daniel 9:25; Joel 2:25; Psalm 51:12 and any word search can show the function of this word. Meaning to restore back to it's original purpose, or bringing it back to the way it was before. So why am I bringing up this word? The sacrificial system is so removed from our biblical foundation, we have no idea what the Levitical system is. If Jesus is now our Melchizedek and High Priest, wouldn't it be good to learn what he is now overseeing in the temple in Heaven and go back to the beginning where it started. Animal sacrifice was less about atoning for sin as it was about drawing near to God. If there was a breach in the covenant, the only remedy was always teshuvah, not sacrifice because no amount of bulls could ever right our wrong.

If the temple sacrifices that were still going on up to the day the temple was destroyed, and it was now an abomination to continue offering a sacrifice, do you think very clear and precise instructions were to of been given to stop? But nothing from Jesus. Paul even continued to make sacrifices. Extra biblical literature has Jesus's very own brother James offering sacrifices at the temple (Epiphanius Panarion 29.4). Hebrews was written from what I understand around 60 ADish? Almost thirty years after the death of Jesus. Pretty late to tell people to stop what they are doing I reckon. What would be a sin would be offering a sacrifice outside the prescribed provisions of an operating temple without the Shekinah glory present.

 

[Ryan]

[MENTION=90220]JLB[/MENTION] thank you for letting me know where your heart and mind is at. In Jesus's own words:

John 10:11-18 11 “I am the good shepherd; the good shepherd lays down His life for the sheep. 12 He who is a hired hand, and not a shepherd, who is not the owner of the sheep, sees the wolf coming, and leaves the sheep and flees, and the wolf snatches them and scatters them. 13 He flees because he is a hired hand and is not concerned about the sheep. 14 I am the good shepherd, and I know My own and My own know Me, 15 even as the Father knows Me and I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep. 16 I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will hear My voice; and they will become one flock with one shepherd. 17 For this reason the Father loves Me, because I lay down My life so that I may take it again. 18 No one has taken it away from Me, but I lay it down on My own initiative. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This commandment I received from My Father.”

You still have absolutely no idea who really killed Christ? WE DID! YOU DID! I DID! We all had a part in his death. Your anti-semitism is so clear now it is beyond words and explanation. When a brother is wrong, they are wrong and I am pointing out the error of your thinking. Not my place to condemn, but to point out error and hope I have gained a brother.

Let's think about it this way. You committed a crime and sentenced to death. You are in the firing line ready to be executed and Jesus pushes you out of the way and says I will die for you. Do you care anymore about which people were in the firing squad, or more eternally grateful for the one that took the bullet for you?

I believe we are called to walk with God in righteousness, as Abraham did, and obey His voice, His commandments, statutes and laws.

You will find this to be the central theme of my post's.

If you consider this to be the work of Lawlessness, then you are certainly entitled to your opinion.

JLB

Praise the Lord you agree with me.

KJV_Strongs(i)
5 H6118 Because H85 that Abraham H8085 obeyed [H8804] H6963 my voice H8104 , and kept [H8799] H4931 my charge H4687 , my commandments H2708 , my statutes H8451 , and my laws

Abraham could not possibly have been obeying Torah yet, cause law here in Genesis 26:5 is the same Torah used throughout the bible.

The Jews had no authority to kill Jesus. Hence bringing him to Pontius. It was the Romans who crucified him. But what was the greater sin? Condemning in their hearts the Messiah, or carrying out the physical act itself of nailing an innocent man to the cross?

You are taking Peter's words over Jesus's when Jesus said clearly that "No one has taken it away from Me, but I lay it down on My own initiative. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again." Jesus is speaking to you JLB not to blame the Jews because he laid down his life on his own volition. Yet, you want to continue to perpetuate this hatred towards the Jews for killing the Christ. Hatred is at the core of that thinking, plain and simple. We ALL had a part of the crucifixion. Mankind did, not a religion, group, ethnic race or whatever.

Maybe put into context what Peter was saying to the Council. At the very least, do not put Peter's words to be in contradiction to Jesus's. Same thing you do with Paul. You have no idea the context of what Paul is telling the readers of the Epistle's and you distort them because you don't understand the background of what and where Paul is teaching from. Paul was a Torah observant Jew till the day he died, and he taught only from the OT. He didn't create a new theology or way to live. He was providing commentary and interpretation of OT principles to Gentiles who had no knowledge of Torah. Yet when something doesn't add up that isn't in line with Words that came out of Jesus's mouth, or out of God's mouth, we use Paul as the final authority. Not God or Jesus. That is your error, thinking Paul taught contrary to the Law of Moses, which was Jesus made flesh, instead of trying to reconcile Paul's words so they are in line with the Word's from God and Jesus.

Could you answer any of these questions, or comment on any of these statements.

The Lawless one will be embraced by Jews who have conspired to build another Temple.

Judaism will embrace this Lawless one because they refuse to love the truth.


Will the Lawless one go to a Temple in Jerusalem?

Will the Lawless in fact be a Jew who is embraced by the Jews, and accepted as the Jewish Messiah.

Will the Lawless one confirm a covenant with many that will allow animal sacrifices?

Establishing their own righteousness in Lawlessness.


JLB

I cannot comment on these statements because the onus is on you to prove it from the Word.

 

[John 8:32]

I recently ran across 119 Ministries. Are they speaking Truth? Or are they men of whom Paul wrote about in Galatians?

Looking at their website, they say we need to keep the Law of Moses.
I read no further, they are wrong.

Along with Christ who said the same thing...

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Mat 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

I gotta go with Christ on this one.