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2 beast, two Babylons

lost there right to be called Gods chosen people
Glory, I find no where in Scripture where God says the disobedient have "lost the right to be called God's chosen people"? Here is what God told Israel: (Deut. 30:1-20) Be sure to read this, especially verse 4 & 5. To get the full heart of God, you should study Deuteronomy chapters 27-30. God has always, I mean always left Israel with a path back home. The only people lost are those who chose to do so. I believe Nebuchadnezzar was also saved by God (Dan. 3:26-4:3). You have missed all the grace and power of His mercy to save all Israel (this is all of Israel) not The Israel of God, ( of which are the faithful) but The God of Israel. (Jer. 31:31-40). Even after the sins King David piled up, Christ said, "He is a man after my own heart", (1 Sam. 13:14) (Acts 13:22), And even promised A continual throne that is irrevocable. (2 Sam. 7:4-19) (Psalms 89:20-37)
Study ( Ezk. 33:10-20). This prophecy is already in progress and started around 1948. Study these scriptures for I could fill this post up with a multitude of God's word that proves this, along with actual fulfilled prophecies. The joy of teaching something you have perceived is not from the Holy Spirit, nor is it joy, but it is the pride of man and void of Spiritual grace but full of talking points that do not magnify the Lord our God, but the author of interpretation. (Me, myself and I).

The called and gifted teacher / pastor always glorifies and presents Christ, and hides himself.
 
Smaller said... quote "Scripture does depict the unseen, which is why it is so fascinatingly unique. Better than any science fiction novels ever written, IF one considers the reality of it."

Seeing the unseen spiritual things is a good point, because we know by scripture the beasts come up out of the "bottomless pit", or hell. We know this cannot be a physical resurrection because that does not occur until the last day. So this resurrection of the beasts has to be spiritual, as like the spirits of past Kings and Princes working in the world through men in power with the same mind set, or spirit.

We know by scripture the god of this world is the Devil, but the Devil is also the Angel and King over the children of hell, or the bottomless pit.

Jesus called the religious folk who had played the harlot with the ways of the world, the children of their father the devil, and Jesus also called them children of hell in Matthew 23:15 “Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.”

In this we can see how the harlot church system can wrongly lead one to being a citizen of hell instead of being a citizen of heaven. Which brings us to who is presently reigning in this wicked world in Luke 4:5-6 “And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time.6 And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it.”

So Satan is like the god, Prince, or King of this present evil world system, but he is also shown as the King of the bottomless pit, whose is also known as the Destroyer or Destruction. We know he has the power of death as is written in scripture. And we also know that death has reigned on this earth by sin ever since Adam. Romans 5:21

So where could the great city of Babylon of old be now that reigns over the kings of the earth if Destruction is their King, who also reigns over them by sin and death? I believe we are given the answer here below, Notice the relocation of the king of Babylon and how the golden city ceased, and also notice where the chief ones of the earth and all the kings of the nations are located below….

Isaiah 14:4-15 “
That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!5 The Lord hath broken the staff of the wicked, and the sceptre of the rulers.
6 He who smote the people in wrath with a continual stroke, he that ruled the nations in anger, is persecuted, and none hindereth.7 The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet: they break forth into singing. 8 Yea, the fir trees rejoice at thee, and the cedars of Lebanon, saying, Since thou art laid down, no feller is come up against us.

9 Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.
10 All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us?11 Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.

12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell,to the sides of the pit.
 
Smaller said... quote "Scripture does depict the unseen, which is why it is so fascinatingly unique. Better than any science fiction novels ever written, IF one considers the reality of it."

Seeing the unseen spiritual things is a good point, because we know by scripture the beasts come up out of the "bottomless pit", or hell. We know this cannot be a physical resurrection because that does not occur until the last day. So this resurrection of the beasts has to be spiritual, as like the spirits of past Kings and Princes working in the world through men in power with the same mind set, or spirit.

We know by scripture the god of this world is the Devil, but the Devil is also the Angel and King over the children of hell, or the bottomless pit.

Jesus called the religious folk who had played the harlot with the ways of the world, the children of their father the devil, and Jesus also called them children of hell in Matthew 23:15 “Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.”

In this we can see how the harlot church system can wrongly lead one to being a citizen of hell instead of being a citizen of heaven. Which brings us to who is presently reigning in this wicked world in Luke 4:5-6 “And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time.6 And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it.”

So Satan is like the god, Prince, or King of this present evil world system, but he is also shown as the King of the bottomless pit, whose is also known as the Destroyer or Destruction. We know he has the power of death as is written in scripture. And we also know that death has reigned on this earth by sin ever since Adam. Romans 5:21

So where could the great city of Babylon of old be now that reigns over the kings of the earth if Destruction is their King, who also reigns over them by sin and death? I believe we are given the answer here below, Notice the relocation of the king of Babylon and how the golden city ceased, and also notice where the chief ones of the earth and all the kings of the nations are located below….

Isaiah 14:4-15 “
That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!5 The Lord hath broken the staff of the wicked, and the sceptre of the rulers.
6 He who smote the people in wrath with a continual stroke, he that ruled the nations in anger, is persecuted, and none hindereth.7 The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet: they break forth into singing. 8 Yea, the fir trees rejoice at thee, and the cedars of Lebanon, saying, Since thou art laid down, no feller is come up against us.

9 Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.
10 All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us?11 Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.

12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell,to the sides of the pit.

I pretty much cut the mustard of who hears Gods Words and who might be a partial hearer with these Words from Jesus, during His temptations, spoken to the "tempter." This is The Directive Of God:

Matthew 4:
4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Witnessed here by the classic 2nd witness, Luke, a gentile. So we have the witness of both Jew in Matthew and Gentile in Luke:

Luke 4:
4 And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.

This leaves us with some very deep questions. Many in fact. Why for example do believers fear to hear every Word of God? Supposedly, for we who hear, there is LIFE. Yet the supermajority fears Gods Words on the dire side of the ledgers and they hear "possible eternal death" to themselves.

This dilemma is solved when we HEAR the Words of Death and APPLY them to the devil and his messengers. IN this we will ALSO HEAR LIFE.

Practical example:

Matthew 7:23
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

If we understand that our flesh is contrary to and against the Spirit, IT IS, Gal. 5:17. IF we understand that "evil" is present with us, that is, in our flesh as a working that is not us as believers, IT IS, Romans 7:21. IF we understand that sin dwells in our own flesh as an adverse spiritual agent/demonic, IT IS no longer I, Romans 7:17-20. IF we understand that we can not say we "have" present tense NO SIN and be in truth, because WE DO, 1 John 1:8. And IF we understand that sin is of the devil, 1 John 3:8, SIN IS OF THE DEVIL....

The deceptions this other working/worker brings literally FORCES "flesh hearing" believing people away from the Words of Jesus Above, even though we are supposed to KNOW all the other citings I just provided, and such will hear the voice of the deceiver in their flesh saying "YOU DO NOT WORK INIQUITY" which can not be further away from the TRUTH! YOU is not "just YOU" in the Light of Scripture, of Gods Words. We do have an adversary. That adversary works in the FLESH, our own flesh.

Here, Paul shows this internal reality IN his OWN FLESH, another party that was NOT Paul.

2 Corinthians 12:7
And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

The fact is, that if we LISTEN to Jesus Words, we WILL hear LIFE...because those Words, "depart from me" ARE going to be spoken to US, against our adversaries in the FLESH.

Therefore there is LIFE for us therein, even in those DIRE WORDS. Just as Jesus said in Matt. 4:4 and Luke 4:4. And simultaneously there is DEATH to our adversaries, which is our eventual HOPE. The Word of LIFE is meant to DESTROY our adversaries. They hate Mercy, Grace, Love, Hope, Forgiveness, Kindness, Eternal Life, FAITH! These are Gods Eternal weapons of THEIR DESTRUCTION.

Revelation 9:6
And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.


Not everything is at it appears on the surface. The believer who is still under the adverse influencer, our adversary in the flesh can NOT HEAR Words of Life on that side of the ledgers and will instead DENY them and RUN AWAY from His Words.

Isaiah 42:16
And I will bring the blind by a way that they knew not; I will lead them in paths that they have not known: I will make darkness light before them, and crooked things straight. These things will I do unto them, and not forsake them.
 
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That is why we must put to death the deeds of the flesh= sin; and destroy the body of sin=man of sin that was at work in us. What we see being raised back up and brought to life by the false prophet spirit working in many deceivers these days is the old man of sin image as in the first Adam be preached, embraced, and believed upon by the sinful masses.

Here are the 2 main opposing beasts of good vs. evil and their nature (sin vs. righteousness) shown here in our first man being flesh, who is like a natural brute beast because of a sin nature in Adam. And then in the born again man who passes from flesh to Spirit, and from the power of death to the power of Life, we see the new man in Christ who is created in righteousness, and he also has the Lambs nature.

1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

So if one wants to live they must put to death the deeds of flesh by the Spirit, put off the old man of sin as in Adam,(being crucified with Christ) and put on Jesus Christ by being raised up a new man in Christ by the power of the Spirit, thus walking in newness of Life.
 
That is why we must put to death the deeds of the flesh= sin; and destroy the body of sin=man of sin that was at work in us. What we see being raised back up and brought to life by the false prophet spirit working in many deceivers these days is the old man of sin image as in the first Adam be preached, embraced, and believed upon by the sinful masses.

Here are the 2 main opposing beasts of good vs. evil and their nature (sin vs. righteousness) shown here in our first man being flesh, who is like a natural brute beast because of a sin nature in Adam. And then in the born again man who passes from flesh to Spirit, and from the power of death to the power of Life, we see the new man in Christ who is created in righteousness, and he also has the Lambs nature.

1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

So if one wants to live they must put to death the deeds of flesh by the Spirit, put off the old man of sin as in Adam,(being crucified with Christ) and put on Jesus Christ by being raised up a new man in Christ by the power of the Spirit, thus walking in newness of Life.

There will be no avoiding hearing this: "Depart from me ye workers of iniquity" for any believer.

Paul shows us this in 2 Cor. 12:7, proving the adversary remained in his flesh.

The deeds of the flesh, of the adversary, are any works of darkness that are against the Spirit, which are these, in brief:


The Word of LIFE is meant to DESTROY our adversaries. They hate Mercy, Grace, Love, Hope, Forgiveness, Kindness, Eternal Life, FAITH!

Do believers have works of darkness to put off? Assuredly.

Romans 13:12

The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.

Who are works of darkness from?

Acts 26:18
To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

I don't think our adversaries will be cooperating. In fact "they" will do the opposite.

Where is the location of Satan's bruising?

Romans 16:20
And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.


 
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Workers of iniquity are not workers of righteousness, so I would disagree that "all believers" will hear those words. Also the thorn in the flesh Paul spoke of was not sin, but a physical infirmity sent to humble him, which I believe had to do with his physical eyesight.
 
Workers of iniquity are not workers of righteousness, so I would disagree that "all believers" will hear those words. Also the thorn in the flesh Paul spoke of was not sin, but a physical infirmity sent to humble him, which I believe had to do with his physical eyesight.

See the proofs as you will. It is certainly not unusual for Jesus to speak to Satan in man, even in disciples:

Matthew 16:23
But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

Paul was abundantly clear that a messenger of Satan was in his own flesh.

2 Corinthians 12:7
And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

This also led Paul to conclude that he was the chief of sinners, after salvation. Because Paul was not just looking at "himself."

1 Timothy 1:15
This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

I am, not "was" or "used to be."

There is no way for any believer to justify our adversaries in the flesh. And yes, we do bear our own adversaries in our own flesh, just as Paul did. But THEY will not hear that truth. And will in fact 'resist' their disclosure. Their 'hiding place' in clay.
 
Jesus said those words to Peter before Peters conversion and being born again of the Holy Spirit. And in Paul's case that physical infirmity in his body was sent to humble him. Satan is the King over the children of pride, and so humbling a person is not Satan's desire, but causing people to be lifted up in pride and rebellion toward God is. There are several instances in scripture where we see Satan physically afflicting people, as in the case of Job, so I believe this is also the case with Paul.

And remember it is written....
1 John 5:18
We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

Scripture does not contradict, we just need to know what is spoken of as in past, present and future tense sins.
 
Jesus said those words to Peter before Peters conversion and being born again of the Holy Spirit.

Peter was used to show the reality of Mark 4:15, which is a reality for all of us as well.
And in Paul's case that physical infirmity in his body was sent to humble him.

Satan and his messengers are adverse spiritual entities.

Paul speaks exactly to "his infirmity" in his flesh, here:

Galatians 4:
13 Ye know how through infirmity of the flesh I preached the gospel unto you at the first.
14 And my temptation which was in my flesh ye despised not, nor rejected; but received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus.

Don't look like no physical malady to me. Does the messenger of Satan tempt in the flesh? Uh, yeah.

For a closer look at this "infirmity" read Romans 7:7-13 and we'll find sin, empowered by the law, causing every manner of concupiscence (lust) IN Paul's flesh.

The messenger of Satan in Paul's flesh was in fact the "evil present" with him. Romans 7:21.

Just so you know I don't consider any believer claiming they have no sin to be speaking truthfully. Regardless of what else they may see very well. This particular matter is much more difficult to see, Divinely So.
 
The messenger of Satan in Paul's flesh was in fact the "evil present" with him. Romans 7:21.

Just so you know I don't consider any believer claiming they have no sin to be speaking truthfully. Regardless of what else they may see very well. This particular matter is much more difficult to see, Divinely So.

Again I have to disagree, I believe it was an actual physical infirmity in Paul's body, not an evil spirit. Also a lot of people misunderstand what Paul is saying in Romans 7 and try to use it as a proof to support ongoing sin, even in a born again Christian. But if you read Romans 6 and 8 Paul explains how a born again believer can be set free from that condition. I might start another thread on that in the future, but no need to get into that here in this thread and derail the thread, out of respect for the OP.

Let me ask you something, did you use to post under another screen name as "Squint" at CF? You seem familiar.
 
Again I have to disagree, I believe it was an actual physical infirmity in Paul's body, not an evil spirit.

You can believe whatever. Paul told us exactly what the infirmity of/in his flesh was. Temptation. Gal. 4:13-14. Romans 7:7-13 shows the same thing. Both internal. Whether believers see this for themselves or not it doesn't matter. It's just a fact.

When Paul said the flesh, yes including his own, is against the Spirit and contrary to the Spirit and vice versa, he was not kidding around. It's a fact. Gal. 5:17.

But of course we all tend to love our own sorry hides don't we?

As it pertains to Mystery Babylon, that worker, that working, will have his/it's destruction within us by Jesus when the time for their destruction comes.
 
I Corinthians 5:5 KJV
To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

The intent of Satan is to steal kill and destroy.

No teaching ways of righteousness by nature,
But
If God uses uses his limiting force on Satan's effects on us we may change for the better.

If you turn someone over to Satan, you better set limits or you will possibly have a dead Christian on your hands.

Babylon was used to punish Israel for their betterment. (70 years). Also Babylon was in charge of the 400 year dispersion for idol worship.

The king of Babylon was himself kept out of pride (limited) so he could be used for good. Not become saved (?) but directed in the path of use.

So a bad spirit is used to physically punish God's chosen people (with limits - wherever they went they had a santuary), were helped. On the day of Pentecost those who heard were from the countries they were sent to. The ones sent out of Jerusalem were the ones grieved over the sins of Israel (good guys).

All things work to good for those who love the Lord ......

eddif
 
The king of Babylon was himself kept out of pride (limited) so he could be used for good. Not become saved (?) but directed in the path of use.

So a bad spirit is used to physically punish God's chosen people (with limits - wherever they went they had a santuary), were helped. On the day of Pentecost those who heard were from the countries they were sent to. The ones sent out of Jerusalem were the ones grieved over the sins of Israel (good guys).

All things work to good for those who love the Lord ......

eddif

This note from Peter brings some difficulties to literalists:

1 Peter 5:
13 The church that is at Babylon, elected together with you, saluteth you; and so doth Marcus my son.

Babylon as a physical city was razed by it's enemies and didn't exist during the time of the Apostles.

This does of course refer to Mystery Babylon.
 
Ezekiel 11:16 KJV
Therefore say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Although I have cast them far off among the heathen, and although I have scattered them among the countries, yet will I be to them as a little sanctuary in the countries where they shall come.
24 Afterwards the spirit took me up, and brought me in a vision by the Spirit of God into Chaldea, to them of the captivity. So the vision that I had seen went up from me.

Other translations use Babylonia for Chaldea.

Since the exiles were the ones who mourned over the sins of Israel, the Jews would / could have planted some of the first seeds among the Gentiles.

eddif
 
Are you a Preterist?

Tell me your teaching of the destruction of the temple in 70 A.D. in Luke and it's (if any) relation to Christ prophecy Starting with Matthew chapter 24.

Since your being very pointed with your question to determine the state of one's beliefs, then I must ask if you have heard the law come forth from Zion as described in Isaiah 2:1-4 and Micah 4:1-4? What is your teaching on these particular scriptures?
 
Since your being very pointed with your question to determine the state of one's beliefs, then I must ask if you have heard the law come forth from Zion as described in Isaiah 2:1-4 and Micah 4:1-4? What is your teaching on these particular scriptures?
Roughly 30 AD ish.

The law of heart and mind.

eddif
 
When was the 2nd (?) temple destroyed? About 400 BC.

Herrod's temple. Let me think. It comes to mind that Elihu (in the book of Job) made a lot of comments, but was not recognized by anyone. Out of Herrod's temple came all sorts of false statements, but I really think it is a similar situation. Oh some make all sorts of claims, but.....?

The temple of the Holy
Spirit gets more comments.

Then I wander around the briar patches of Mississippi.

eddif
 
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