7 reasons gay ain't OK

[Christ_empowered]

I know, another gay thread. But I think another one is inevitable, so I may as well outline the top 7 reasons I've come to believe that gay behavior is not only sinful (which is bad enough), but destructive and ultimately causes harm to those involved and those around them...

1) Diseases are rampant; 2) rampant promsicuity--even solid relationships tend to be "open," which leads me to believe that many gay relationships are just roommates with sexual privileges; 3) obsession with youth--probably more a gay male thing, but seriously: after 25, you're not so hot; after 35, you're truly over the hill 4) rampant psychospiritual problems--suicide, drug+alcohol abuse, depression, all sorts of problems. Could be related to the individual narcissism that tends to drive gay behavior, but I think a lot of it comes from the behavior itself and the gay community......

5) pursuit of pleasure is the ultimate goal--let's face it: most gay relationships are based on lust, narcissism, and a sort of sexual re-enactment of psycospiritual problems. Heterosexual relationships at least have the normal female/male balance going for them, even if God isn't in the mix

6) exploitation--I don't just mean sexual, although that's an issue. Its that you're supposed to treat people as ends in and of themselves. Fornication, adultery, promsicuity...they're means to an end. On the individual level, it damages your soul and spirit, makes you cold and callous. At the group level, it makes ruthless pursuit of pleasure the ultimate aim.

7) wastes your life--the ultimate reason I cannot go back to being gay. Homosexuals--I'm most familiar with gay men--seem to have lots of fun when they're younger, but...sin carries a high price, right? A life spent in pursuit of pleasure and fun ends in bitterness and disillusionment.

 

[DarkHorseRising]

Interesting points, and some are undoubtedly true to varying degrees.

I'm curious, do you have any words for a person struggling with homosexual thoughts or tendencies? Or is it your plan to throw this in their face, and then set up a lawn chair at a good spot to cheer as you watch them burning in hell? Are you bringing the marshmallows?


I doubt many people in the Christian community would disagree that homosexuality is against God's plan. This isn't in dispute. We therefore might want to shift a bit more focus on to helping people escape sin and less focus on demonizing people who struggle with one specific area of sin.

 

[FrMattCH]

Thank you DarkHorseRising. Very well said, I once knew a Protestant pastor who was not making good decisions. I came down on him hard, Marine Corps Squad Leader Matt not Father Matt. This guy was absolutely destroyed that I had done these condescending things, such as blame and finger pointing to him. My friend left crying, after he left I was sitting in my chair and the Lord came to me and said, "How would you feel if I judged you like that?"
I found this man later that day and made amends. I took steps to reconcile my bitter wrong doing and helped him to get on a plan of reconciling himself with Jesus.
I know a young man who is gay. He was hyper erratic about his sin, "I am sure to go to Hell, I am an abomination, no hope for me ever!" he says.
I looked this man in the eyes and said, "Do you believe this is no good for you or continue this stuff?" I asked. He replies "Father, it's bad news and I don't like it but I can't stop."
"Do you wanna stop or do you feel guilty about last night?". "I wanna stop"
Ok, well Do you know of Jesus who washes away all sins with his blood, he traded his life for yours. The man loves you and wants to reveal himself to you, invite him and you'll see."
I was at a mall food court in my clergy gear by the Subway and we prayed The Jesus Prayer during lunch hour.
Jesus is fantastic at guiding ones tonge folks, just ask for help before ya speak. Stuff works wonders.

 

[Chris.]

A thought came to me today to look in the bible at how much is dedicated to discussing gay matters vs other topics. From my looking at it it discusses it very little in comparison to other things.


There could be a lesson in that for us or a president to follow....

Just a thought!

 

[GojuBrian]

I wish people would quit saying 'gay' and call it what it is, homosexual. The homosexual's STOLE gay!!

They also STOLE the rainbow! They stole the sign from God that he would never flood the earth again.........and now it represents what?????

 

[Milk-Drops]

1) Diseases are rampant;

Based on what statistics? HIV is on the decline thanks to many people's efforts to enforce safe sex and better choices. Also, herpes is a legitimate problem for all heterosexuals. HIV is a legitimate problem for heterosexuals. All STDs are rampant just as much in heterosexuals.

2) rampant promsicuity--even solid relationships tend to be "open," which leads me to believe that many gay relationships are just roommates with sexual privileges;

I doubt this is true because all we have is your anecdote of this. I've watched most of my friends relationships with the oposite sex crumble for several reasons. Promiscuity is actually a huge marketing campaign aimed at men of all sexual persuasions from the ages of 14 to 40.

3) obsession with youth--probably more a gay male thing, but seriously: after 25, you're not so hot; after 35, you're truly over the hill

This is just a stereotype wrapped up with extreme exaggeration. Considering I've never met a Gay male that truly acts in this fashion. I bet they exist, but I think its mostly just a character trope used to insight discus against gay people. Most of the gay people that I see like this, are on television next to actor and actresses with equal amounts of self obsession.

4) rampant psychospiritual problems--suicide, drug+alcohol abuse, depression, all sorts of problems. Could be related to the individual narcissism that tends to drive gay behavior, but I think a lot of it comes from the behavior itself and the gay community......

Or it could be because gay people are still a minority where most feel isolated and misunderstood because most people still prefer to listen to stereotyped nonsense and hate mongering then get to know them. Causing many to feel socially isolated which since we are a social species, causes many mental health problems.

5) pursuit of pleasure is the ultimate goal

This is the entire US culture at this point. We live in the culture of Instant gratification from Facebook, Twitter, Iphones, 24 hr McDonald, internet access almost everywhere. An advertising system that markets with Half naked women everywhere and stoic strong men. News programs that tell us who to hate or why only you are correct. etc.
This problem you listed is the easiest to refute.

6) exploitation--

Welcome to US advertising and Business again. Ever wanted to get that promotion at work? Ever wanted to insult an entire group of people for petty reasons? Ever insult the intelligence of others? You have been a problem of exploitation. Welcome to American culture.

7) wastes your life-

Subjective personal opinion.



Here is my point. Christianity holds that having sex with the same gender is a sin. That is fine and more power to you guys. Preach it all you like, I don't care.
My problem comes from posts like these that is nothing but hate mongering. Most of these claims are stereotypes or hoisted to make PEOPLE seem horrible. Being attracted to the same gender does not lead to any of that.

Especially since most of the issues presented are not exclusive in anyway to gay people at all. Most social problems that do come out form observing homosexual "culture" was caused do to social isolation or are massive exaggerations to dehumanize these people.

I'll give a quick example. We as a people are very social and need that social activity. We feed off of positive encouragement and kindness to one another. For a long time Gay people have had to put up with extreme social harassment. With issues of being kicked out of the house, attacked, socially isolated, humiliated, demonized. etc.

Many make it out with character building life experiences and don't succumb to destructive behavior. Those that do, do it to escape the harsh reality that people hate them. So many people that do go into destructive behavior do so to fill a void that society has caused them.

Like I said, I'm not saying you guys can't say its a sin. I'm not promoting homosexuality. I'm just sick and tired of reading posts where people want to make vast sweeping judgments against a group of people, but don't seem to understand the basics of human interaction.

There is not reason to lie about gay people. Just state the truth. God said its bad. There is no need to go further.

 

[Christ_empowered]

This thread was as much for me as anyone else. Listen, I was just running through my own thoughts, which is why its in "general talk."

And no, I don't plan on any hellfire judgments. I'm starting to lean towards universalism anyway.

 

[GojuBrian]

I just saw on yahoo news that the Air Force has graduated it's first openly gay cadet.
Did the cadet do anything significant? No
Is he a super cadet? No

What are we reproting and celebrating exactly? The fall of the United States..... look out for the fireballs.......

 

[CalledToServe]

I just saw on yahoo news that the Air Force has graduated it's first openly gay cadet.
Did the cadet do anything significant? No
Is he a super cadet? No

What are we reproting and celebrating exactly? The fall of the United States..... look out for the fireballs.......

Christians had the same view when the first Black soldiers were integrated into the US military. There was a massive news articles about it. Just food for thought, since these Christians used the Bible as an excuse for their racism.

 

[sesantek]

This thread was as much for me as anyone else. Listen, I was just running through my own thoughts, which is why its in "general talk."

And no, I don't plan on any hellfire judgments. I'm starting to lean towards universalism anyway.

I agree with your views. I think meatballsub got it all wrong. You only gave reasons that may just help someone who is into it to have a rethink.

Really, I don't know why lots of people come against some xtians when they explain what their bible teaches them. I have seen lots of threads on forums where christians have been attacked based on their beliefs and most times the world did not come to an end.

Everybody is free to come to the open to proclaim what he believes (gays are not exempted). As for me I won't really get involved in what I am not bold to show the whole world.

One of your reasons however struck me - the lifespan of a gay relationship, can it last for a long time?

I don't really love to get involved in discussions of this form because I am a strong believer in the fact that whatever you love to do, do it well...the rewards of any action of anybody is certain either in this life or after death.

Lastly, I would also love to point out that no human being is permitted to condemn anybody or write off anybody. Anyone can become anybody in the future.

Thanks.

 

[GojuBrian]

Christians had the same view when the first Black soldiers were integrated into the US military. There was a massive news articles about it. Just food for thought, since these Christians used the Bible as an excuse for their racism.

Two different things. The Bible is against racism! SOME christians USE the bible as excuses for all sorts of evil, does that make it right?

I'm offended that homosexuals are liking themselves to minorities. It's a spit in the face to all the achievements of minorities since before my time!

 

[CalledToServe]

Two different things. The Bible is against racism! SOME christians USE the bible as excuses for all sorts of evil, does that make it right?

I'm offended that homosexuals are liking themselves to minorities. It's a spit in the face to all the achievements of minorities since before my time!

Christians have used the Bible to promote slavery, racism, mass murder, torture, etc... against whatever group they hate.

I hate to tell you this, but gays are a minority in regards to population density. They are entitled to equal rights just like everyone else. Let's do a quick review of the Declaration of Independence.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

Hmm it says that all people are created equal and are given unalienable rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

What does the Constitution of the United States say?

Article I Section X Clause I

No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility.

Says that no state shall pass any Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts. Marriage is a contract, so a state government cannot pass a law that removes people from entering into contracts.

Article IV Section II Clause I

The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States.

It says here that every citizen is entitled to all privileges and immunities enjoyed by citizens in other states.

What does the Bill of Rights say?

Amendment IX

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

Marriage is a right that cannot be denied or restricted. See Loving v. Virginia.

Amendment XIV

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

What do you know this says the same thing as Article IV Section II Clause I in the Constitution, but adds additional teeth by making every state citizen a US citizen.

The long and the short of it is that you cannot deny rights to a group of people you dislike. They are created equal by the same God that we worship and to do so runs contrary to what Christ taught of loving your neighbors as yourself and as He loves us. Are you willing to give up your rights to marriage out of love for gays? No, I didn't think so.

 

[GojuBrian]

Well, that's your take on it.......

 

[CalledToServe]

Well, that's your take on it.......

That's not my take on it, but the one from scripture and the laws of the United States. Are you willing to be like Christ and love them as He loves you? That's the crux of the matter regardless of the laws. Are you willing to deny yourself the same rights gays are denied to show that you love them like Christ loves you?

 

[Matthew6]

This speaks for itself, it is the answer of Ravi Zacharias one of my favorite evangelists:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIw6ngIqaD0

 

[evenifigoalone]

-snip-

I do believe homosexuality is a sin and unnatural, but I do agree with you. That said, I'm told there actually are secular reasons to be against gay marriage.

Currently my position on this is neutral. I'm planning to do some research sometime...I keep puting it off, though. Partly because it's not a pleasant topic and people will blast you either way.
So I'm much more comfortable being neutral. (Though my family wouldn't approve of me being neutral, either. But whatcha gonna do?)

 

[CalledToServe]

I do believe homosexuality is a sin and unnatural, but I do agree with you. That said, I'm told there actually are secular reasons to be against gay marriage.

Currently my position on this is neutral. I'm planning to do some research sometime...I keep puting it off, though. Partly because it's not a pleasant topic and people will blast you either way.
So I'm much more comfortable being neutral. (Though my family wouldn't approve of me being neutral, either. But whatcha gonna do?)

I can understand your neutrality on this and I do respect you for it.

The same secular reasons will just be a rehash of the same reasons that were used to prevent women from voting, granting minorities any rights, etc... All of those reasons have one thing in common, which is that they all dehumanize and make whatever group to be less than human as a basis to deny x citizens rights. It may be 2012, but the same excuses that were first uttered in the early 17th century and earlier are still here. When will we learn that we cannot treat x citizens as if they weren't human?

 

[jasoncran]

well i will chime in. christ_empowered pm me. universalism isnt the way..

that said it. to those who are christians and for gay marriages being allowed. let me ask you this? if you are dying on the battlefield whom do you want to be the chaplain there while you die? a liberal chaplain who doesnt believe in sin or one who believes in the bible and loves the sinner?

that is what the soldiers face. if doma is lifted and chaplains are made to marry them then all godly chaplains will leave the services in mass.

if marriage is contract? then i must have sex with my wife x amount of times? or things of that nature?

is our relationship with god a contract. for you see if marriage is a contract and you believe that god is reflected in a marriage to the kids and each other what does that mean?

 

[Free]

This speaks for itself, it is the answer of Ravi Zacharias one of my favorite evangelists:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIw6ngIqaD0

Fantastic response by Ravi.

Christians have used the Bible to promote slavery, racism, mass murder, torture, etc... against whatever group they hate.

While people have used the Bible to support such ideas, they clearly go against the Biblical teachings for Christians. That is far different from practicing homosexuality which is clearly mentioned in Rom 1 as a sin.

I wish people would quit saying 'gay' and call it what it is, homosexual. The homosexual's STOLE gay!!

I just saw on yahoo news that the Air Force has graduated it's first openly gay cadet.

:D

 

[DarkHorseRising]

that is what the soldiers face. if doma is lifted and chaplains are made to marry them then all godly chaplains will leave the services in mass.

You can't force a chaplain/priest/minister/rabbi/whatever to perform a marriage. There's strong protections for religious freedom in every jurisdiction that has allowed gay marriage.