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9/11 Fact or Fiction...The Official Thread.

Were the events on 9/11/01 reported truthfully and accurately?

  • Yes, I am convinced they were

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    7
Hello johnmuise:

Forgive me if I have overlooked something in your posts, but if Flight 77 didn't hit the pentagon, what happened to it? Did the US government coldly murder 80 people (or however many there were on the plane) to cover its tracks? How would this be possible? Flight 77 is known to have taken off. There was cell-phone contact with it in flight, if not cockpit and radar records. What happened to this plane and its passengers if it was not flown into the Pentagon?
 
Drew said:
Hello johnmuise:

Forgive me if I have overlooked something in your posts, but if Flight 77 didn't hit the pentagon, what happened to it? Did the US government coldly murder 80 people (or however many there were on the plane) to cover its tracks? How would this be possible? Flight 77 is known to have taken off. There was cell-phone contact with it in flight, if not cockpit and radar records. What happened to this plane and its passengers if it was not flown into the Pentagon?

Honestly i don't know, but they never crashed into the pentagon.

here is some helpful resources.

http://www.apfn.org/apfn/flight77.htm
 
John, just because you don't understand things, it doesn't provide evidence for your case.

I understand logic and that governments are already guilty of false flags acts.

*EDITED*

Click the popular mechanics link I provided and it goes over each issue with you. Now, unless the majority of the people involved and anyone whos done real research on this topic is in on it to....
Yes, anyone who disagrees with the "official report" must not have done any real research.

Really think about the ins and outs of there being no real plane that hit the building and what all that involves in covering up. You have to admit it is pretty ridiculous.

Erm, ITS LOGICALLY IMPOSSIBLE THAT A PLANE HIT THE PENTAGON :crazyeyes:
 
At what point were you trying to make any sense?

Further more read about the real people who died on flight 77

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/200 ... ight77.htm

These people existed and they died in a horrible act. Just because you do not trust the government does not give you any right to make these claims.

These claims create so many pitfalls that the answer "I do not know." to all of the hard ones just isn't sufficient. Further more all of the sites you list have ALL been debunked as false or ignorant.

Do you also believe that the towers were brought down by explosives and flight 93 was shot down?
 
Do you also believe that the towers were brought down by explosives and flight 93 was shot down?

Yes to the first.

Not sure on the second, IMHO the impact zone in Pennsylvania did not look anything remotely close to what a plane crash looks like.
 
johnmuise said:
Do you also believe that the towers were brought down by explosives and flight 93 was shot down?

Yes to the first.

Not sure on the second, IMHO the impact zone in Pennsylvania did not look anything remotely close to what a plane crash looks like.

In what way did the crash zone not resemble an impact? An outline can clearly be seen in it.

And further more, there is no singular way a crash looks. There are many factors as to what it looks like, including trajectory, size, speed, and fuel load.

93 was a big plane, going very fast, and had alot of fuel. That is exactly what experts would expect it to look like at that trajectory.
 
VaultZero4Me said:
johnmuise said:
Do you also believe that the towers were brought down by explosives and flight 93 was shot down?

Yes to the first.

Not sure on the second, IMHO the impact zone in Pennsylvania did not look anything remotely close to what a plane crash looks like.

In what way did the crash zone not resemble an impact? An outline can clearly be seen in it.

And further more, there is no singular way a crash looks. There are many factors as to what it looks like, including trajectory, size, speed, and fuel load.

93 was a big plane, going very fast, and had alot of fuel. That is exactly what experts would expect it to look like at that trajectory.

But all the debris was small enough to fit in your hand, that's never happened before, for example this summer i went out with ammo techs and engineers from my unit and we took out buildings, buses, and smaller planes for training purposes. We used a lot of C4 because, heck we had extra and were guys, lol and as huge as the explosion was there was many large pieces, You will never disintegrate the engines completely and yet nothing at all, bodies, engines, wings tires etc NOTHING was present at the flight 03 crash site.

BUT, i have seen impact zones from various missiles while working with a FOO (forward observation officer) and after a missile impacts there are many hand sizes pieces, nothing bigger then a coke can.

Also if the missile had a delay type fuse it would have left a huge trail in some cases.

Also if they are launch at very low altitude, radars have a VERY hard time picking them up.

Flight 93 landing, just look at it, it makes me thin kan arty round landed there :-?

flight93.jpg


Your more typical plane crash.

0803W_CRASH_wideweb__470x253,0.jpg

2547059274_699a747f0b.jpg


Please note planes do not always blow up upon a crash and if they do the fuel will burn up VERY quickly in 1 fireball. the twin tower planes would have burned up more but not completely, if a plane crash in Pennsylvania or the pentagon more ALOT more debris would be needed.
 
93_crater.jpg


That is a picture of flight 93's crash zone. Note how you can see in much detail the outline of a large passenger jet.

The pictures of the plane crashes you posted look like low energy type crashes. A plane at landing speeds, or one on a trajectory that is not steep, etc.

Imagine a 757 on a sharp barrel roll down going at nearly top speed with full tanks of jet fuel. That is a tremendous amount of energy that is released upon impact.

It is not hard to imagine that plane shattering like glass and throwing the pieces back into the air.

I would like for you to find one credible source that says a plane crash like that would not leave a crash site like we see in the picture.

And we have the video and numerous witnesses of the twin towers. Note in the video you do not see in intact plane come out the other side, or any large piece at all. It enters and is disintegrated in the large amount of energy that is released from the impact and the jet fuel.
 
That is a picture of flight 93's crash zone. Note how you can see in much detail the outline of a large passenger jet.

Looks just like the outline of an angled missile or arty shell impact.

Here is a Arty crater.

normandy-26.jpg


Today's artillery can engage targets at over 27km away. :wink:

The pictures of the plane crashes you posted look like low energy type crashes. A plane at landing speeds, or one on a trajectory that is not steep, etc.

The first one no, the second one yes.

Imagine a 757 on a sharp barrel roll down going at nearly top speed with full tanks of jet fuel. That is a tremendous amount of energy that is released upon impact.


Wow now its barrel rolling? Top speed? you mean terminal velocity?
Regardless it is a tremendous amount of energy your correct, however all that would do would fling debris over a larger surface and create a bigger crater. Please note that the 2 6 ton titanium and steel engines are still uncounted for these would not disintegrate. and because of there weight they would bury themselves rather then fly away due to the kerosene fireball (kerosene does not posses enough heat or energy to destroy items like that, The shock wave is simply not strong enough to vaporize steel, because the explosion was so brief and heat to little.

It is not hard to imagine that plane shattering like glass and throwing the pieces back into the air.

First of all not one plane ever in the history of the world "shattered like glass"

And even if they did your forgetting one thing, gravity. What goes up must come down....wheres the debris?

Heck I've found 1/8" think fuses that were attached to a 100 pound 155mm artillery round still intact and barley scratched, explain that?

I would like for you to find one credible source that says a plane crash like that would not leave a crash site like we see in the picture.

*EDITED* But if you wish. and i quote " that was no plane crash, Never in the history of the world has any plane crashed like that" Major Jennings at 0800hrs THIS MORNING.

And we have the video and numerous witnesses of the twin towers. Note
in the video you do not see in intact plane come out the other side, or any large piece at all. It enters and is disintegrated in the large amount of energy that is released from the impact and the jet fuel
Yes of course, because the plane got wrapped around the steel pillars inside, however small debris still made it through and they found many, many remains while cleaning up the tower site.

So in conclusion, a plane can crash into a huge tower, endure intense heat and a collapse and there is plenty of big pieces of debris, yet a plane of the same size can hit the ground, leave a small crater, disintegrate the engines (the most dense part, times 2) the fire ball dissipated quickly leaving small fires and yet the only remains are coke can sized? Hmmmm :lol:

Edit:

Here you go, factor this into your considerations.

Remember this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_10T4UYpzV8

Lets look at what they found from this "high energy" crash.

image538935x.jpg

6465339.jpg

080509-shuttledrive-vmed-10a.widec.jpg


photo2.jpg


Did you notice the "WORKING" black box? After all that, the Black Box survived, Hmm flight 93 must have been nuked to disintegrate like it did.

Hmm what else can survive ( well not quite ) a high energy blast?

AHA! This house!

nw062a.jpg


nw064.jpg


" Heat radiation charred the paint on this house, which had been painted white to reflect heat rays. The charring instantaneously produced the smoke. However, precautions had been taken to prevent this typical U.S. house from being destroyed by fire, because the test was made to enable engineers to study the effects of blast, rather than fire. The house was demolished by the 5-psi overpressure blast that struck seconds later, but it did not burn. "

Source: http://nukealert.net/free_book/s73p918.htm

Hmm heat so intense it vaporized the paint on that house and a show wave so powerful it blew it to splinter, yet look at all the debris.
 
For one i have the majority of the world believing the same things i do, and for 2 most of the stuff involves stuff that i see and do in my career, so i know when people are lying.

In case anyone wants to know I am in the Canadian military, i started as an engineer then i moved and i switched to artillery ware i am now a Bombardier (Corporal) and i will soon be a lieutenant when i finish my year in collage and finish my C.A.P. (officers course) I am also a registered Pyro Junkie, so needless to say i know my bombs and explosions.
 
johnmuise said:
For one i have the majority of the world believing the same things i do, and for 2 most of the stuff involves stuff that i see and do in my career, so i know when people are lying.

In case anyone wants to know I am in the Canadian military, i started as an engineer then i moved and i switched to artillery ware i am now a Bombardier (Corporal) and i will soon be a lieutenant when i finish my year in collage and finish my C.A.P. (officers course) I am also a registered Pyro Junkie, so needless to say i know my bombs and explosions.

As you should know (seeing that you are a Creationist) what the majority believe is true has no bearing on what is actually true and what is actually false. I also find it hard to believe that there are more people out there that believe YOUR particular version of events as opposed to the official story. Have you any proof to back up this statement?
 
As you should know (seeing that you are a Creationist) what the majority believe is true has no bearing on what is actually true and what is actually false. I also find it hard to believe that there are more people out there that believe YOUR paticular version of events as opposed to the official story. Have you any proof to back up this statement?
*EDITED*

My whole view or partial that is.

I will dig up more polls later,here is one for starters.

http://www.911truth.org/page.php?page=zogby_2006
 
johnmuise said:
For one i have the majority of the world believing the same things i do, and for 2 most of the stuff involves stuff that i see and do in my career, so i know when people are lying.

In case anyone wants to know I am in the Canadian military, i started as an engineer then i moved and i switched to artillery ware i am now a Bombardier (Corporal) and i will soon be a lieutenant when i finish my year in collage and finish my C.A.P. (officers course) I am also a registered Pyro Junkie, so needless to say i know my bombs and explosions.

John you do not debate. :)

First of all, "shatter like glass" is a metaphor.

I never once stated that the plane vaporized....you are confused there. Heat creates pressure as air expands. As you know the mechanics of a bomb relies on the mechanism to exert pressure forcing projectiles out from the center. This thing was like a bomb when it hit. Some of the debris got flung into the grounds, the rest up into the air. I did not even imply it vanished or vaporized.

You can find many pictures of all the debris scattered about. Including the engine, the recorder, parts of the fuselage, a hankerchief, and other general debris expected to be found. Please go see the pictures of the debris they dug up that got buried in the ground, and the debris scattered every where that was flung up in the air. O wait, that just means that black surbans with men in black suits and sunglasses were parked nearby and unloaded their trucks with the debris as soon as the explosion happened.

Then of course they had to return to base in order to cart away the people they wanted us to believe died to a remote island prison.

At any rate, this is not a topic that needs debate because you have provided no evidence to claim anything than what it appears, much less count for the mess you create when there are no planes.

Its laughable to be honest and not worth debating.

I just don't think it is fair to the people who died and lost family for people to spread wild ideas that have little bearing in reality.

I mean seriously, don't you think the government would be smart enough to realize that an explosive round could not be mistaken for an air plane? Or were all the investigators in on it as well?
 
johnmuise said:
As you should know (seeing that you are a Creationist) what the majority believe is true has no bearing on what is actually true and what is actually false. I also find it hard to believe that there are more people out there that believe YOUR paticular version of events as opposed to the official story. Have you any proof to back up this statement?
My whole view or partial that is.

I will dig up more polls later,here is one for starters.

http://www.911truth.org/page.php?page=zogby_2006
Did you even read the polls John? They do not back up what you claim, in that people are behind you.

I believe that the governement covered up a few things. Like the things that likely showed inept departments.

Please provide a survey that actually does back you up in that the majority of people believe that there were no planes that hit the pentagon or no flight 93. Stated in certain terms.

Your idea of evidence leaves me dumb founded sometimes.
 
*EDITED*
At any rate, this is not a topic that needs debate because you have provided no evidence to claim anything than what it appears, much less count for the mess you create when there are no planes.
Yes, because logic is the devil

Its laughable to be honest and not worth debating.
Are you giving up?
I just don't think it is fair to the people who died and lost family for people to spread wild ideas that have little bearing in reality.
Its sad yes, but its not an excuse to stop looking for justice.
 
johnmuise, I have been following this topic for the last day or so and it seems to me that you are being very rude in your posts. There is a way to give your opinion without belittling others with laughing smileys and sarcastic remarks, and by doing so you just make people want to believe you less and less. Why does it bother you so much that people on this forum don't believe the conspiracy theories?
 
caromurp said:
johnmuise, I have been following this topic for the last day or so and it seems to me that you are being very rude in your posts. There is a way to give your opinion without belittling others with laughing smileys and sarcastic remarks, and by doing so you just make people want to believe you less and less. Why does it bother you so much that people on this forum don't believe the conspiracy theories?
Yeah your right i should simmer down a bit, i just find it so irritating that people can believe what they believe in spite of overwhelming evidence.
 
You can find many pictures of all the debris scattered about. Including the engine, the recorder, parts of the fuselage, a hankerchief, and other general debris expected to be found. Please go see the pictures of the debris they dug up that got buried in the ground, and the debris scattered every where that was flung up in the air. O wait, that just means that black surbans with men in black suits and sunglasses were parked nearby and unloaded their trucks with the debris as soon as the explosion happened.
It looks like you were wrong man.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZekosYOmXc
 
johnmuise said:
according to a poll by the New York Times and CBS News, 53 per cent of respondents think the Bush administration is hiding something and 28 per cent believe it is lying.

EDIT#2: There was a poll in Canada and even more Canadians think Bush was lying i think it was 46%, i am looking for the link now.
I have to point out the differences between "think the bush admin is hiding something" and the laughable stuff you suggest?

And you really wonder why I think this debate is pointless?

At any rate, your tone of disrespect to me, I dont care really. But this was just sadistic and makes me concerned for you:

They dies, but it was not from a plane crash. :lol:

A laughing face when you are talking about the people who died on that day? How old are you seriously? That is pathetic.
 
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