9/11 Fact or Fiction...The Official Thread.

[VaultZero4Me]

I've said this before on a different thread, I build aircraft engines for a living. The "wreckage" at the pentagon was NOT a jet engine. I don't know what it was, but I know what it was not.

You were at the crash site?

I live in Utah and was in AZ at the time so no to your smart @$$ question. I do however handle the very same engine parts on a daily basis, do you? Have you ever built one from scratch? I have. Do you know the specific type of titanium they are made of? I do. Do you even work in aerospace at all?

My qualifications are not in question. I am not making the claim. The hundreds of workers who are well qualified (think FAA) who were there do say they recovered alot of an aircraft.

You are the one disagreeing with their findings. I was making a rhetorical remark about your unequivical claim that it was not a plane and pointing out you have no basis on which to disgree with the experts there.

Unless you have some information above what you have shown.

 

[VaultZero4Me]

I've said this before on a different thread, I build aircraft engines for a living. The "wreckage" at the pentagon was NOT a jet engine. I don't know what it was, but I know what it was not.

You were at the crash site?

Do you build aircraft engines Vault?

Its funny, people who spend their lives working on aircraft, forensics, construction, military etc etc say that 9/11 was an impossibility, yet a few guys say other wise and people will believe them even if they are in the minority, You see people believe them because they are saying what they wish to hear.

You still have yet to show that I am in any minority. Why do you continue to make baseless claims?

 

[MISFIT]

My qualifications are not in question. I am not making the claim. The hundreds of workers who are well qualified (think FAA) who were there do say they recovered alot of an aircraft.

You are the one disagreeing with their findings.

So in other words, you don't know squat, and I just put you in your place. FAA is a government entity, if the government was behind it they were in on it too.

 

[MISFIT]

Here's a good read:http://nomoregames.net/index.php?page=911&subpage1=we_have_holes

 

[VaultZero4Me]

My qualifications are not in question. I am not making the claim. The hundreds of workers who are well qualified (think FAA) who were there do say they recovered alot of an aircraft.

You are the one disagreeing with their findings.

So in other words, you don't know squat, and I just put you in your place. FAA is a government entity, if the government was behind it they were in on it too.

What is with all of the childish antics? "put you in your place"

The question pointed out you don't know if it was or wasn't becuase you were not there nor were you part of the investigative team. Though you may know jet engines, side line investigation hardly makes you an expert on this case. And this is the case we are talking about, hence you are not an expert.

To support you claim your web has to grow ever so big. The FAA, all of the airlines involved, all of the families, the eye witnesses, the hundreds of people who investigated,, etc. etc.

All of which leads back to Doras original question. Someone please answer it...

How can you account for the huge web you weave with these stories?

Further more, since we are debating on if flight 93 and 77 were real planes, why would the government make up crashes? If they had the capacity to control the planes and hit the two towers, why not just do the same again? Wouldn't that have been the easier and safer bet? It doesn't make sense to me.

 

[VaultZero4Me]

John, here is part of the post I am working on in response to yours. I will do more when I have time.

That piece is not from the plane in the official report.

Which piece? Looks like a pile of metal to me with many pieces. Investigators even said it was very difficult to distinguish pieces from each other because the debris from the plane and building mixed together. Sort of like slamming two lego pieces together.

The fire vaporized engines but not these flimsy pieces of scrap? Eyebrow raiser

It isn’t an eyebrow raiser….

Who said any metal was vaporized? Some of it was charred, but I do not recall anyone saying anything was vaporized. How do you vaporize metal anyway? Are the temperatures needed to turn metal into vapour even achievable on earth?

Further more are you suggesting these people in the pictures were planting evidence?

Look at the long trail and LOT OF DEBRIS. Sorry but that wreck looks nothing at all like the supposed flight 93 site.

It looks a lot like it. The debris is more concentrated, but that plane really shattered when it hit.

Heres another one for you. The top is a photo of all of the recovered parts from the site of the crash below it. Also note, and I can cite this tomorrow if you wish, 95% of flight 93's remains were recovered.

that is from a large plane that crashed in a similar way 93 is suspected to have crashed. Looks like a bunch of little pieces.

Here is the full article with more pictures:
http://web.ukonline.co.uk/lait/site/Can ... 0WD991.htm

Also, look up flight 585. very similar as well. Lots of small pieces from a high speed deep angle upside down crash.

The pieces are very similar in size and scattering concentration to flight 93.

Here is a small photo

*edit its not pulling the right photo so I will just link the site. http://www.airdisaster.com/special/special-ua585.shtml

Witnesses said the plane hit the ground and did not bounce or move, it just dissapeared in a cloud of dirt and debris. You can find some videos of it as well on you tube and the site looks very similar to 93.

Passenger jets are surprisingly fragile crafts. They are built to be light and efficient. I will have to look into this to remember exactly, but I am pretty sure they are sheets of metal built around a frame. There are lots of rivets and bolts holding pieces together, therefore when they crash, they break up alot.

That is why you see a 16' diamter hole in the pentagon, and no cut through where the wings hit. The wings are bolted and weilded to the main compartment. It just ripped them off and shattered them. Interestingly enough, a 757 is about 16' in diamter or thereabouts. I do not know of any missile outside of a large booster like they use on shuttle launches or ICBMs that have that large of a diameter.

As for the telephone poles being knocked down, which seems more likely, a small diameter missile hitting those poles, or a low flying 757 with a 130' wingspan clipping them and knocking them over?

 

[Vic C.]

John, thanks for the apology. Keep it straight up and civil and all will be fine.

Misfit, the warning I gave to John about conduct and civility applies to you too. There was no need to attack Vault. The "in your face" attitude stops now. If you can't present your beliefs without the "put you in your place" comments, then maybe you shouldn't be posting in this thread. Also, be reminded of this, from the ToS:

2 - No pornography links or photos. No vulgar sexual remarks. No foul language or symbols to suggest such remarks. This is a Christian site, plus, there may be young ones on the board.

Anyone professing to be a follower of Jesus should be acting as such; anyone not a believer must respect that this is a Christian site. Believers... remember, if you act like the "world" and you're going to be disrespectful to others, you're going to get the same right back.

Please don't make us lock the thread and delete just about everything all the way back to page 1 or 2. :-?

 

[Vic C.]

To support you claim your web has to grow ever so big. The FAA, all of the airlines involved, all of the families, the eye witnesses, the hundreds of people who investigated,, etc. etc.

All of which leads back to Doras original question. Someone please answer it...

How can you account for the huge web you weave with these stories?

I have the same concerns and am still waiting for an intelligent and responsible answer.



Also, in passing, flight accidents, crashes and disasters are investigated by the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB), which is an independent agency.

The National Transportation Safety Board was established in 1967 to conduct independent investigations of all civil aviation accidents in the United States and major accidents in the other modes of transportation. It is not part of the Department of Transportation, nor organizationally affiliated with any of DOT's modal agencies, including the Federal Aviation Administration. The Safety Board has no regulatory or enforcement powers.

http://www.ntsb.gov/Abt_NTSB/invest.htm

 

[MISFIT]

This is my last post in this thread.

Here's why I believe 9/11 was an inside job. As a follower of Jesus I believe that one day a charismatic world leader will rise and rule the entire earth. I also believe that he is alive today, and those that work for him are setting the wheels in motion for his rein. What does this have to do with 9/11 you ask? Well I'll tell you. The new world order. Think about this, in many nations it would not be hard at all to think of a one world government taking over very easily with promises of peace, freedom, and that all people will be taken care of. Now what about America? We Americans are the most opinionated, stubborn my-way-or-the-highway types on the planet! So how do you get people like that to agree to anything? The "war on terror" you tell people we have been attacked and that in order to prevent it from happening again they must do as the leaders tell them, they must give up their privacy, and many freedoms all for the sake of "peace." Satan is real people, and he has been allotted a short time in which he will rule, and it's closer then most think.

He who testifies to these things says, "Yes, I am coming soon."
Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.

I know I get a little too "heated" on this subject, heck it's this subject that made me stop posting here for several months, and for that I'm sorry if I offend or anger anyone. I love this nation, and just don't want to see it fall to those that would destroy all our founding fathers fought so hard for, all that my family and close friends have fought so hard for. I also love my GOD with all my being and watch ever vigilantly for his return, when I see what I take as a sign of his return I can't help but share it.

PEACE~MISFIT

 

[handy]

John, you asked a direct question of me on Monday, and I've not answered it yet. I've been gone all week due to a downturn with my dad. I was actually beginning a response to your post when I got the call from my sister. You can check the thread on the Prayer forum. Anyway, maybe someday, probably someday, I'll be in the mood to answer your post, but not today, I'm not up for this debate now.

But, I did want to let you know that I wasn't deliberatly ignoring you, as we were both on-line in this discussion when I left Monday.

 

[destiny]

This is my last post in this thread.

Here's why I believe 9/11 was an inside job. As a follower of Jesus I believe that one day a charismatic world leader will rise and rule the entire earth. I also believe that he is alive today, and those that work for him are setting the wheels in motion for his rein. What does this have to do with 9/11 you ask? Well I'll tell you. The new world order. Think about this, in many nations it would not be hard at all to think of a one world government taking over very easily with promises of peace, freedom, and that all people will be taken care of. Now what about America? We Americans are the most opinionated, stubborn my-way-or-the-highway types on the planet! So how do you get people like that to agree to anything? The "war on terror" you tell people we have been attacked and that in order to prevent it from happening again they must do as the leaders tell them, they must give up their privacy, and many freedoms all for the sake of "peace." Satan is real people, and he has been allotted a short time in which he will rule, and it's closer then most think.

He who testifies to these things says, "Yes, I am coming soon."
Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.

I know I get a little too "heated" on this subject, heck it's this subject that made me stop posting here for several months, and for that I'm sorry if I offend or anger anyone. I love this nation, and just don't want to see it fall to those that would destroy all our founding fathers fought so hard for, all that my family and close friends have fought so hard for. I also love my GOD with all my being and watch ever vigilantly for his return, when I see what I take as a sign of his return I can't help but share it.

PEACE~MISFIT

And..
We are fighting a "war on terror" with open borders and illegal aliens pouring in. Think about it.

 

[John]

John, you asked a direct question of me on Monday, and I've not answered it yet. I've been gone all week due to a downturn with my dad. I was actually beginning a response to your post when I got the call from my sister. You can check the thread on the Prayer forum. Anyway, maybe someday, probably someday, I'll be in the mood to answer your post, but not today, I'm not up for this debate now.

But, I did want to let you know that I wasn't deliberatly ignoring you, as we were both on-line in this discussion when I left Monday.

Its okay, sorry to hear about your dad, peace be with you and your family Handy.