9/11 Fact or Fiction...The Official Thread.

[John]

Can we get back on track?

 

[VaultZero4Me]

You can find many pictures of all the debris scattered about. Including the engine, the recorder, parts of the fuselage, a hankerchief, and other general debris expected to be found. Please go see the pictures of the debris they dug up that got buried in the ground, and the debris scattered every where that was flung up in the air. O wait, that just means that black surbans with men in black suits and sunglasses were parked nearby and unloaded their trucks with the debris as soon as the explosion happened.

It looks like you were wrong man.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZekosYOmXc

Which just showed the scenario I was talking about. You have a way of showing the evidence against your case and some how thinking it is for your case, or showing no evidence and some how thinking you are.

BTW there are pictures from the investigation which show the engine, pieces that WERE "larger than a phonebook" such as a section from a door.

 

[VaultZero4Me]

Can we get back on track?

No I think I am done here. Your tone shows little respect for the tragedy of that day and respect for the human life that was lost.

 

[John]

You can find many pictures of all the debris scattered about. Including the engine, the recorder, parts of the fuselage, a hankerchief, and other general debris expected to be found. Please go see the pictures of the debris they dug up that got buried in the ground, and the debris scattered every where that was flung up in the air. O wait, that just means that black surbans with men in black suits and sunglasses were parked nearby and unloaded their trucks with the debris as soon as the explosion happened.

It looks like you were wrong man.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZekosYOmXc

Which just showed the scenario I was talking about. You have a way of showing the evidence against your case and some how thinking it is for your case, or showing no evidence and some how thinking you are.

BTW there are pictures from the investigation which show the engine, pieces that WERE "larger than a phonebook" such as a section from a door.

How long after did they find this door? Government is sneaky man.

 

[John]

Can we get back on track?

No I think I am done here. Your tone shows little respect for the tragedy of that day and respect for the human life that was lost.

You keep running away from the topic at hand man. this thread is not about the deaths per say, but more about the other events that took place to cause those deaths.

 

[John]

More brain food.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Q8uKcVb ... re=related

 

[John]

Eyewitness accounts.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsCh_UGK ... re=related

 

[John]

So before i go to sleep lets conclude what we have so far.

1. a 124ft wide 45ft high and 150ft long HUGE aircraft smashed into the pentagon and made 2 16ft holes with zero convincing debris of any aircraft big or small.

2. another huge aircraft makes a crater about 20 long and 10 feet wide, minimal or HIGHLY questionable debris none that point to an aircraft. (stuff like what vaultzero said. "handkerchiefs? yes folks titanium engines disintegrate but flimsy cloth survives)

Goodnight and God bless

 

[VaultZero4Me]

So before i go to sleep lets conclude what we have so far.

1. a 124ft wide 45ft high and 150ft long HUGE aircraft smashed into the pentagon and made 2 16ft holes with zero convincing debris of any aircraft big or small.

2. another huge aircraft makes a crater about 20 long and 10 feet wide, minimal or HIGHLY questionable debris none that point to an aircraft. (stuff like what vaultzero said. "handkerchiefs? yes folks titanium engines disintegrate but flimsy cloth survives)

Goodnight and God bless

1. The jet may be 124 foot wide, but that is including the wings. The wings would have been ripped off on impact. They are not really designed to stay attatched in those conditions (hence why it didn't slice through....)

How do you rate what is convincing debris? Is this somone elses opinion? Do you have some kind of degree that specializes in the mechanics of a high velocity jet crash? All the people that do seem to be convinced. Maybe you have something else to bring to light?

2. Again refer back to my previous questions. And I never said anything disintergrates... you can drop that strawman for the 2nd time. I said gets blown up, kinda like if you drop a dusty rag, the particles shoot back up. Simple physics here....

Futher more, we know that 2 planes hit the twin towers (unless you don't even agree with that....)

That in and of itself would have been enough to send us to war. In fact, those are the images the american public remembers most. The towers falling. If the government was responsible for the planes hitting, why not just use another plane on the pentagon? Why make it more complicated in that you have to have the airlines in on it, risk someone seeing what actually hits it, risk some debris from a missile or whatever being found by someone, etc.

The same for flight 93. Why make up a 4th? Why risk it? Why not leave it at 3, or just do what they did with the first 2, down real planes?

Its just plain silly and completely out of the realm of logic. Stop spreading this nonsense you are finding with your search engine.

 

[Gabe]

according to a poll by the New York Times and CBS News, 53 per cent of respondents think the Bush administration is hiding something and 28 per cent believe it is lying.

EDIT#2: There was a poll in Canada and even more Canadians think Bush was lying i think it was 46%, i am looking for the link now.

28% think the Bush administration is lying? John, we are talking about politicians are we not? I'm not denying that they may have lied about a few things: they're politicians, that's pretty much expected! But for your particular theory to be correct, it would mean that President Bush is a terrorist and a mass-murderer of his own people! Those surveys do not ask whether people believe that the Bush administration is responsible for the slaughter of their own people and so the results have no relevance to your theory OR to your dubious claim that the majority of this world agree with THIS far-fetched conspiracy theory.

I can imagine Bin Laden hiding under some rock (probably accompanied by some smutty magazines) laughing so hard that his sides split: he has admitted to masterminding the biggest terrorist attack in American history and what do the Americans do? THEY BLAME THEMSELVES!!! This reminds me of something Christ once said "A Kingdom divided unto itself will not stand"

Please understand John, that more than 3,000 innocent people lost their lives on that day and countless others were ruined by it. This is not a game, there is no winning streaks and there are no winners.

 

[VaultZero4Me]

Photos of the plane debris mixed with building debris inside the pentagon.

http://www.rense.com/general32/phot.htm

Photos of the wreckage outside

Picture of US Air Flight 427 crash in 1994. Note the large similarities with flight 93.

 

[John]

That piece is not from the plane in the official report.

The fire vaporized engines but not these flimsy pieces of scrap? Eyebrow raiser. :wink:

Look at the long trail and LOT OF DEBRIS. Sorry but that wreck looks nothing at all like the supposed flight 93 site.

The quote below was for Handy but now its turned on you.

I just want to focus on the pentagon for now, i want a 100% honest and well thought out response from Handy.

Handy, from what i have read on this forum so far you would seem to be a smart individual, But please tell me how a 124ft wide 45ft tall and 150ft long aircraft made a 16ft hole in both the outer and inner sides of the pentagon, and the only wreckage found was a small scrap that was unburned and a small piece of a engine that did not even belong to the type of plane described in the official report.

Note this was after the collapse, the hole at first was 16ft in diameter.

Please explain why government officials seized all videos of the "plane" hitting the pentagon except for one that does not even show anything. All the government would have to do is released "ONE" video out of the dozens taken showing the plane and all this brewhaha would be silenced. Instead all we have is this.

Does that small thing look like a big ole plane?

How could this "Plane" even come close to restricted airspace without getting shot down by the military jets that were so close to the pentagon?

How come some "witnesses" say they saw a plane while other say they saw a rocket?

How did a plane knock over 5 light polls with out damaging them?

How did the 2 6 ton titanium and steel engines burn up in a kerosene fireball that lasted a few moments?

What was under the blue tarp? what were they trying to hide? WHY HIDE ANYTHING? last time i checked if i hide something its because i don't want anyone to see or find it. Is that bad thinking?

Should i stop here or write about 30 other hows, whys etc?

Just give me an honest answer, think about it for once. Answer each of my above questions in your own words. Please. :

I don't wish to start a civil forum war here, i just want the logic i speak to acknowledged.

EDIT: 1 more thing, what would it take for you to believe that the 9/11 attacks were false flag incidents, or at least part of the attacks I, E pentagon.

 

[Vic C.]

John, if you can't discuss this in a civil and Christian-like manner, then maybe this isn't the thread for you. Vault, who admits to not being a believer, has displayed more civility and practical sense.

I'd still like to see someone address Handy's concerns about how widespread a conspiracy this would be if what some of you say were true.

Now please bear with me as a attempt to clean up this thread a little.

 

[John]

John, if you can't discuss this in a civil and Christian-like manner, then maybe this isn't the thread for you. Vault, who admits to not being a believer, has displayed more civility and practical sense.

Sure i understand. my behavior has been know to be militant occasionally. My apologies everyone.

I'd still like to see someone address Handy's concerns about how widespread a conspiracy this would be if what some of you say were true.

Of course nothing in this debate is gonna be 100%, we simply don't have all the facts to play with as of yet.

But there are somethings that are set in stone. When you look at certain things then compare them to all the research and history that has taken place I and many, many others cannot accept that they took place as the government wants us to believe. I think the best reason is that the US is already guilty of many accounts of false flag incidents in the past.

And to Handy's claim above the answer is that there is much truth to what i speak (and many others), the conspiracy theory is so wide spread that i have never even encountered 1 person in my travels in Canada and the US that believes the official report, that's at least 500 military personal many of which are very high ranks and blow stuff up and research stuff like that for a job and about 600 civilians, (church members, school, random people) In fact the only people I've ever had believe the government was online.

This Conspiracy theory is global..and Bush is not very popular, especially by the people in Afghanistan, Iraq etc. Think of them, falsely accused and killed for defending themselves (don't get me wrong there are plenty of guilty terrorists out there) just so the US government can steal some oil.

My 2 cents.

I asked a few questions here before to Vault and Handy, but none were answered so I'll open them up to anyone following this thread.

please tell me how a 124ft wide 45ft tall and 150ft long aircraft made a 16ft hole in both the outer and inner sides of the pentagon, and the only wreckage found was a small scrap that was unburned and a small piece of a engine that did not even belong to the type of plane described in the official report.

(The only answer so far said, that that wings simply broke off, However the windows ware the wings would have hit are not even broken and the wall not even scared, logically the wings hit not hit there. )

Note this was after the collapse, the hole at first was 16ft in diameter.

Please explain why government officials seized all videos of the "plane" hitting the pentagon except for one that does not even show anything. All the government would have to do is released "ONE" video out of the dozens taken showing the plane and all this brewhaha would be silenced. Instead all we have is this.

Does that small thing look like a big ole plane?

How could this "Plane" even come close to restricted airspace without getting shot down by the military jets that were so close to the pentagon?

How come some "witnesses" say they saw a plane while other say they saw a rocket?

How did a plane knock over 5 light polls with out damaging them?

How did the 2 6 ton titanium and steel engines burn up in a kerosene fireball that lasted a few moments?

What was under the blue tarp? what were they trying to hide? WHY HIDE ANYTHING? last time i checked if i hide something its because i don't want anyone to see or find it. Is that bad thinking?

 

[MISFIT]

9/11 WAS AN INSIDE JOB!!!9/11 WAS AN INSIDE JOB!9/11 WAS AN INSIDE JOB!

 

[John]

9/11 WAS AN INSIDE JOB!!!9/11 WAS AN INSIDE JOB!9/11 WAS AN INSIDE JOB!

I have a t-shirt that says that, lol

 

[MISFIT]

I've said this before on a different thread, I build aircraft engines for a living. The "wreckage" at the pentagon was NOT a jet engine. I don't know what it was, but I know what it was not.

 

[VaultZero4Me]

I've said this before on a different thread, I build aircraft engines for a living. The "wreckage" at the pentagon was NOT a jet engine. I don't know what it was, but I know what it was not.

You were at the crash site?

 

[John]

I've said this before on a different thread, I build aircraft engines for a living. The "wreckage" at the pentagon was NOT a jet engine. I don't know what it was, but I know what it was not.

You were at the crash site?

Do you build aircraft engines Vault?

Its funny, people who spend their lives working on aircraft, forensics, construction, military etc etc say that 9/11 was an impossibility, yet a few guys say other wise and people will believe them even if they are in the minority, You see people believe them because they are saying what they wish to hear.

 

[MISFIT]

I've said this before on a different thread, I build aircraft engines for a living. The "wreckage" at the pentagon was NOT a jet engine. I don't know what it was, but I know what it was not.

You were at the crash site?

I live in Utah and was in AZ at the time so no to your smart @$$ question. I do however handle the very same engine parts on a daily basis, do you? Have you ever built one from scratch? I have. Do you know the specific type of titanium they are made of? I do. Do you even work in aerospace at all?