99.9% Holiness won't take you to Heaven.

[Down Yokel]

I know the staying power of the Holy Spirit from my own experience, but I'm not convinced everyone who is genuinely saved can't walk away from trust in Christ's blood for the forgiveness of their sins.



I'm not offended in the least...but thank you for your apologies anyway.

No problem. Let's just say i misunderdstood.

 

[Adullam]

I'm really sorry, but you are completely wrong. Even the plain reading of it is clear. He's addressing Christians and showing that those who claim to have no sin are those that are not of them.

Can you find one biblical commentator that takes your position?

Go to google and find out who John was addressing in his epistle. This is a good exercise. There is a popular return to Gnosticism today in that people are looking to be not responsible for their own actions. It is the sign of the times.

People who have not experienced Christ think that sin is impossible to overcome.

But he who sins is a slave to sin. It is impossible to sin if we abide in Christ...
1Jn 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

John wrote this to the Gnostics too!! It is saying the same thing as the verse you quoted...so you have misunderstood the purpose of the verse.

 

[Adullam]

if i could acheive sin less perfection there would be the verses for that. the law was meant to force men to look to god for mercy. our perfection was never required.

oh i am NOT an osaser. i believe that one can walk away from christ.

Our perfection is to abide in Christ who is our perfection. If we walk in the Spirit we will not do the deeds of the flesh. With every temptation we are provided a way out. So through Christ we are commanded to seek a holiness without sin....

Mat 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

 

[Adullam]

Heb_6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

This is not speaking of what humans can do in and of themselves but what God is doing THROUGH His people. God empowers us to perfection through His Spirit in us. We can do this by putting aside unbelief and looking to God who is the perfecter of our faith.

2Co_7:1 Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

Eph_4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

 

[Sparkey]

... And I will betroth thee unto me forever; yea, I will betroth thee unto me in righteousness, and in judgment, and in lovingkindness, and in mercies. I will even betroth thee unto me in faithfulness: and thou shalt know the LORD."

The Promises of God do not fall short. Consider it this way: We are the reward to Jesus for His sinlessness and obedience. He became poor so that we might be rich. Recall that Jesus is the FirstFruit of the earth. This is the work that is being done: the full reconcilliation of man and God. Man fell from Grace in the beginning and the process of restoration was begun immediately. What now? Is Jesus not the author and finisher of our faith? Will our unbelief frustrate the Grace of God?

Did Jesus ask that we might be One with the Father even as He is? Did his prayer fall on deaf ears or is it possible that God will do what He has declared from the beginning and restore us so that we are in a better state than Adam before sin entered the world? How great is your God?

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

Is a person who struggles with drugs or sex or whatever single/particular sin (if sin should be the right word...perhaps addiction) heavenworthy? I think this kind of clarifies the OP. Thanks all... for you replys

First of all, I can tell you absolutely that 1) no one is "heavenworthy." "All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God ... " (Romans 3:23). We aren't worthy, we can't earn worthiness, we can't earn heaven, and 2) we are seen as righteous only through the shed blood of Jesus Christ that covers our sins and only by that way are we "righteous" or "holy" in any way shape or form.

As an addictions counselor who shares his faith with his clients when they ask me about it (I can't proactively talk about Jesus in relation to them, only through my own experience and hope they ask a question), I can also tell you that no one, no matter how deep in their sins, no matter how addicted to all sorts of vile chemicals (or behaviors, as with compulsive gamblers or pornography addicts), no one is beyond the reach of Christ. I've seen these men and women be lifted out of the depths of their despair and addiction and find Jesus waiting for them with open arms.

No one is worthy. But there is no one who cannot be saved, either.

 

[Classik]

Yes. but they should repent and make right first. I mean, who is totally without sin ? heaven would be empty if 00.1% Sin gets you permanently locked out ,with no chance to make ammends ever , right ? Christ is very forgiving.

I wonder how that 0.01% impurity would be allowed in God's presence - knowing He's a perfect God. Welcome

 

[Classik]

How about the quotes: without Holiness no eye shall see the Lord; Be ye Holy For I (God) am Holy?

 

[jasoncran]

Our perfection is to abide in Christ who is our perfection. If we walk in the Spirit we will not do the deeds of the flesh. With every temptation we are provided a way out. So through Christ we are commanded to seek a holiness without sin....

Mat 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

moses didnt enter into the promised land because of his actions and disobedience. he hit the rock rather then speak to the rock.yet he was seen in the transfiguration. the more i learn of christ and see him the more I SEE how unHOLY i am and i need of his BLOOD. i dont get better with time. he shines the more as i yield. paul says the same. "i,m the least of these etc" why would paul say that if he could be perfect? paul died saying he never attained.

 

[Sparkey]

Christians claim to have exchanged their shame for righteousness. The very righteousness of Christ. The plan of God includes a wedding feast, where a robe of righteousness is provided. Consider the first miracle that Jesus performed, was this not also at a wedding? Did wine flow there?

What does the wine at the wedding typify? Is this not to be fulfilled by the outpouring of the Holy Spirit? Read Ephesians chapter 5. Start with verse 18. Let those with an ear to hear, hear this good news. Remember what it means to hear with childlike faith. Men are not doomed so that they will continue throughout eternity enslaved to sin. God will perform this.

Many will come and quote John the Apostle who taught, "If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us." They will skip a verse and continue the quote, "If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us." Why skip the verse that contains the promise? Did the leper who was cleansed become clean? Don't skip 1 John 1:9 --> "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

paul died saying he never attained.

Does this mean that Paul taught that we should give up and die in our unbelief? Is that what Paul did?

What does it mean, "the last shall be first":
20Then the mother of the sons of Zebedee came to Jesus with her sons, bowing down and making a request of Him. 21And He said to her, “What do you wish?†She said to Him, “Command that in Your kingdom these two sons of mine may sit one on Your right and one on Your left.†22But Jesus answered, “You do not know what you are asking. Are you able to drink the cup that I am about to drink?†They said to Him, “We are able.†23He said to them, “My cup you shall drink; but to sit on My right and on My left, this is not Mine to give, but it is for those for whom it has been prepared by My Father.â€
24And hearing this, the ten became indignant with the two brothers. 25But Jesus called them to Himself and said, “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their great men exercise authority over them. 26“It is not this way among you, but whoever wishes to become great among you shall be your servant, 27and whoever wishes to be first among you shall be your slave; 28just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many.â€
________________________________________________

Those who hear the message of Perfection do not necessarily think that it is a message for themselves personally. This the hope, but it is a hope born of faith. When young, I asked the Lord to extend my life so that I might see her - the one spoken of by the Prophet Hosea, "And it shall be at that day, saith the LORD, that thou shalt call me ISHI, and shalt call me no more BAALI." What does the Prophet mean when He declares the promise -- that she will be betrothed in righteousness, betrothed in judgment, betrothed in mercies and even betrothed in faithfulness? Is marriage unable to make us one? We know not what we shall be, but we shall be like HIM. We are commanded, Be thou HOLY for I am HOLY.

 

[Down Yokel]

I wonder how that 0.01% impurity would be allowed in God's presence - knowing He's a perfect God. Welcome

Because that impurity which comes from the sin nature inside us dies and will not enter heaven. When we die our soul will be separated from this body of sin and we can enter into heaven as pure through Christs purty which applied to us and sin can no longer lay claim to us or tempt us. We will be clean.

The whole thing about trying to be pure here is to do with fellowship. When Jesus washed the deciples feet and Peter asked to be washed all over, Jesus replied " He that is washed needs not except to wash his feet, but is clean completely"

As we live day by day resisting temptation we will still sin . But we are bot as those that practice sin. The difference being, we may sin and regret it and confess to god for forgiveness . When we do this daily, it is like Jesus washing our feet. We are already bathed in Jesus blood at the moment we are saved but we still need this daily confession and washing, not for salvation but to remain in fellowship with god.

If we continue daily without repentance and confession we will find that our walk with god will diminish and his will for our life will become blurred. The end of this process is a backslidden state. To remain in close fellowship with god is to be praying and confessing often just as Paul teaches in romans and first john shows us.

 

[Danus]

*** Moved to A&T section since we are dealing with issues of a theological nature

 

[Sparkey]

Because that impurity which comes from the sin nature inside us dies and will not enter heaven. When we die our soul will be separated from this body of sin and we can enter into heaven as pure through Christs purty which applied to us and sin can no longer lay claim to us or tempt us. We will be clean.

The whole thing about trying to be pure here is to do with fellowship. When Jesus washed the deciples feet and Peter asked to be washed all over, Jesus replied " He that is washed needs not except to wash his feet, but is clean completely"

As we live day by day resisting temptation we will still sin . But we are bot as those that practice sin. The difference being, we may sin and regret it and confess to god for forgiveness . When we do this daily, it is like Jesus washing our feet. We are already bathed in Jesus blood at the moment we are saved but we still need this daily confession and washing, not for salvation but to remain in fellowship with god.

If we continue daily without repentance and confession we will find that our walk with god will diminish and his will for our life will become blurred. The end of this process is a backslidden state. To remain in close fellowship with god is to be praying and confessing often just as Paul teaches in romans and first john shows us.

Well said, and true.

... and yet the hope that we can become one with the Father, even as Christ is one with Him remains.

 

[Down Yokel]

I appologise for my awful spelling and grammar. I use an I pad and tend to shortcut. I think I'll go back to the laptop lol

 

[jasoncran]

Christians claim to have exchanged their shame for righteousness. The very righteousness of Christ. The plan of God includes a wedding feast, where a robe of righteousness is provided. Consider the first miracle that Jesus performed, was this not also at a wedding? Did wine flow there?

What does the wine at the wedding typify? Is this not to be fulfilled by the outpouring of the Holy Spirit? Read Ephesians chapter 5. Start with verse 18. Let those with an ear to hear, hear this good news. Remember what it means to hear with childlike faith. Men are not doomed so that they will continue throughout eternity enslaved to sin. God will perform this.

Many will come and quote John the Apostle who taught, "If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us." They will skip a verse and continue the quote, "If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us." Why skip the verse that contains the promise? Did the leper who was cleansed become clean? Don't skip 1 John 1:9 --> "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

Does this mean that Paul taught that we should give up and die in our unbelief? Is that what Paul did?

What does it mean, "the last shall be first":
20Then the mother of the sons of Zebedee came to Jesus with her sons, bowing down and making a request of Him. 21And He said to her, “What do you wish?†She said to Him, “Command that in Your kingdom these two sons of mine may sit one on Your right and one on Your left.†22But Jesus answered, “You do not know what you are asking. Are you able to drink the cup that I am about to drink?†They said to Him, “We are able.†23He said to them, “My cup you shall drink; but to sit on My right and on My left, this is not Mine to give, but it is for those for whom it has been prepared by My Father.â€
24And hearing this, the ten became indignant with the two brothers. 25But Jesus called them to Himself and said, “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their great men exercise authority over them. 26“It is not this way among you, but whoever wishes to become great among you shall be your servant, 27and whoever wishes to be first among you shall be your slave; 28just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many.â€
________________________________________________

Those who hear the message of Perfection do not necessarily think that it is a message for themselves personally. This the hope, but it is a hope born of faith. When young, I asked the Lord to extend my life so that I might see her - the one spoken of by the Prophet Hosea, "And it shall be at that day, saith the LORD, that thou shalt call me ISHI, and shalt call me no more BAALI." What does the Prophet mean when He declares the promise -- that she will be betrothed in righteousness, betrothed in judgment, betrothed in mercies and even betrothed in faithfulness? Is marriage unable to make us one? We know not what we shall be, but we shall be like HIM. We are commanded, Be thou HOLY for I am HOLY.

justification and santification are two different things. will there be IM more holy club then you in heaven? I think NOT.

i ask you alll name a sinless living christian who has been saved the longest. BILLY graham still says hes a sinner.
its god not YOU that does it. but at one point you will die with some sin in your life. we are that wicked without him and it would take a lifetime or two or three to be sinless. no man lives that long. all have sin.

 

[Down Yokel]

justification and santification are two different things. will there be IM more holy club then you in heaven? I think NOT.

i ask you alll name a sinless living christian who has been saved the longest. BILLY graham still says hes a sinner.
its god not YOU that does it. but at one point you will die with some sin in your life. we are that wicked without him and it would take a lifetime or two or three to be sinless. no man lives that long. all have sin.

here here

 

[Adullam]

Because that impurity which comes from the sin nature inside us dies and will not enter heaven. When we die our soul will be separated from this body of sin and we can enter into heaven as pure through Christs purty which applied to us and sin can no longer lay claim to us or tempt us. We will be clean.

The whole thing about trying to be pure here is to do with fellowship. When Jesus washed the deciples feet and Peter asked to be washed all over, Jesus replied " He that is washed needs not except to wash his feet, but is clean completely"

As we live day by day resisting temptation we will still sin . But we are bot as those that practice sin. The difference being, we may sin and regret it and confess to god for forgiveness . When we do this daily, it is like Jesus washing our feet. We are already bathed in Jesus blood at the moment we are saved but we still need this daily confession and washing, not for salvation but to remain in fellowship with god.

If we continue daily without repentance and confession we will find that our walk with god will diminish and his will for our life will become blurred. The end of this process is a backslidden state. To remain in close fellowship with god is to be praying and confessing often just as Paul teaches in romans and first john shows us.

This makes the way of God unequal...likes heads I win tails you lose.

If we can repent of dead works and come to Christ we can also repent of living works in order to get on with our own lives.

Jesus is speaking of real people in the book of Rev. concerning the church in Laodicea. In fact, These sound like most evangelicals I know...

The time is now to turn away from dead works and be empowered by the Holy Spirit to walk in holiness. Christians will be judged on what they have done with the grace they have been given.

Of course the mercy of God is very real...but we must be careful to not be believing in an unreality,
His patience towards us is not in His willingness to have us overlook our own sins!!!


But He is being patient with us to get with the holiness program....

 

[Adullam]

justification and santification are two different things. will there be IM more holy club then you in heaven? I think NOT.

i ask you alll name a sinless living christian who has been saved the longest. BILLY graham still says hes a sinner.
its god not YOU that does it. but at one point you will die with some sin in your life. we are that wicked without him and it would take a lifetime or two or three to be sinless. no man lives that long. all have sin.

Actually sanctification is a continuation of our salvation into the fulness of God. The holy club are called saints and even these have differing levels of authority.

We can walk in sinlessness in a moment...because we are cleansed from ALL sin by the blood of Christ. The trick is to REMAIN in that intimate fellowship with God. This is what we are exhorted to do...to abide in Christ so that our fruit is brought to maturity (perfection).

 

[jasoncran]

Actually sanctification is a continuation of our salvation into the fulness of God. The holy club are called saints and even these have differing levels of authority.

We can walk in sinlessness in a moment...because we are cleansed from ALL sin by the blood of Christ. The trick is to REMAIN in that intimate fellowship with God. This is what we are exhorted to do...to abide in Christ so that our fruit is brought to maturity (perfection).

so we can beat our chests to the sinners that died and repented at their death. IM MORE HOLY then you?

if a pharisee were to be alive today , they would shame most christians. they wouldnt sit with sinners like we do, talk using GOD names fully. nor would they do pagan holidays. yet jesus said to the apostles , you MUST be more HOLY then them.

the pharisees were devils but had the appearance of rightoeuness and jesus said that had to be passed. yet if they didnt repent they died and are in hell.

i dont deny that part on cleansing. how many times a day do you think about sin? did jesus have thought about being in love with a man or being gay? i have. jesus didnt have the struggle from within but without from satan. we cant say satan has no part in us but jesus can and still could.

 

[jasoncran]

if i shared my revalation of how being unholy i am from god most of you wouldnt believe it from my posts.

i know that some of you this very site takes away from God. it has happened to me and i know of others.