99.9% Holiness won't take you to Heaven.

[Codger]

I have been thinking about this issue for quite a long time now. I think, since God is Holy, we must be Holy, too. Of course we know the popular verse: Be ye Holy; for I Am Holy

Lev 11:44
For I am the LORD your God: ye shall therefore sanctify yourselves, and ye shall be holy; for I am holy

Moses was almost perfect - but the sin of disobedience denied him the Promised Land.


How about the foolish virgins? They were faithful all the while - but a little moment of delay locked them out of glory.


James 2:10
For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point , he is guilty of all.


Lev 5:5
And it shall be, when he shall be guilty in one of these things , that he shall confess that he hath sinned in that thing


How long shall we remain in that little sin, so-called little sin??? If 99.9% holiness can take you to heaven....how about the 0.1% sin or impurity in you. Would God, Who is Pure and Holy permit a 0.1% impurity in His presence?


Acts 5
Ananias and Sapphira were faithful. Along the way they left the track. A tiny lie...it was all over...

Sorry but this is pure legalism.

 

[Adullam]

so we can beat our chests to the sinners that died and repented at their death. IM MORE HOLY then you?

if a pharisee were to be alive today , they would shame most christians. they wouldnt sit with sinners like we do, talk using GOD names fully. nor would they do pagan holidays. yet jesus said to the apostles , you MUST be more HOLY then them.

the pharisees were devils but had the appearance of rightoeuness and jesus said that had to be passed. yet if they didnt repent they died and are in hell.

i dont deny that part on cleansing. how many times a day do you think about sin? did jesus have thought about being in love with a man or being gay? i have. jesus didnt have the struggle from within but without from satan. we cant say satan has no part in us but jesus can and still could.

One would have to assume that we need to be holy as God is holy in order to be saved..which I don't.

The standard of salvation is not the same as the standard to rule with Christ. Admitting one is a sinner and in need of forgiveness has never been the requirement to become a ruler for eternity.

I think this is a big error to not see that there is a difference between barely escaping death and being a king in God's kingdom forever.

The error of the Pharisees was to claim too much for themselves. They claimed they could see the truth...but were blind. This was the judgment against them. Had they admitted their own blindness they could have been shown the truth.

This is the dividing point for Christians as well. Do we claim more than we are? Do we claim to be saved sinners who still walk in the same powerlessness and weakness we have always walked in? Are we truly walking as disciples who are learning to walk according to the Spirit putting the deeds of the flesh to death while walking in close fellowship with God and the brethren?

If our righteousness is to exceed that of the Pharisees then we need MORE reality in our claims. Are we teaching others to walk in His power forsaking our old strength? Or are we encouraging others to claim a salvation that is self-promoted?

Where are the crowds that used to follow the empowered of the Spirit ones? Where is the manifestation of God's approval towards the saints that makes the world turn upside down?

Are we not Laodiceans?

 

[Down Yokel]

if a pharisee were to be alive today , they would shame most christians. they wouldnt sit with sinners like we do, talk using GOD names fully. nor would they do pagan holidays. yet jesus said to the apostles , you MUST be more HOLY then them.

QUOTE]

This is what i said at the start. this was the mystery . From We are more holy than them because we have been saved and redeemed through Christ. That is our standing.

Our state however, is the thing that fluctuates and why we are not 100 % holy.

Read the first chapter of corinthians to see the contrast between state and standing. I find it illustrates it very well.

 

[Down Yokel]

Sorry but this is pure legalism.

Indeed. The law etc was given to show us our sinfulness. It was never ment to be kept. As Paul explains in romans.

 

[Sparkey]

justification and santification are two different things. will there be IM more holy club then you in heaven? I think NOT.

i ask you alll name a sinless living christian who has been saved the longest. BILLY graham still says hes a sinner.
its god not YOU that does it. but at one point you will die with some sin in your life. we are that wicked without him and it would take a lifetime or two or three to be sinless. no man lives that long. all have sin.

Name a sinless living Christian? His Name is Jesus. This is the Name above all names, the One that we profess belief in, but some have forgotten that He is alive and waiting for the fruit of the earth. I say this, not to condemn but to stir the memory of the truth that is planted in your heart.

You mentioned Paul. But what did Paul seek to attain to? Was holiness a mere "status" or did it involve identity and behavior? Give me Scripture for your statement that at some point all Christians must die in sin. What did God mean when He declared, "As I live, saith the Lord, my Glory shall fill all heaven and all earth." If the purpose of God is for Jesus to wait for the rotted fruit of the earth there is no longer hope that we will be like Him.

 

[Sparkey]

Indeed. The law etc was given to show us our sinfulness. It was never ment to be kept. As Paul explains in romans.

The whole Law was kept by Jesus. We are to be like Him. If we are filled with the Holy Spirit, in no wise will we fullfill the flesh. This promised holiness will not be attained by the work of man but it is the promise of God. Peter was told to wait in Jerusalem for the Promise. The Holy Spirit is that very promise. Not by might, nor by power, but by my Spirit saith the Lord of Hosts.

We are approaching the Day of the Lord, the very time that has been spoken of in days past by the Ancient of Days Himself. What is the first promise? Was it the promise that was given to the seed of the woman? What does it mean? If his heel was bruised at Calvary, will there yet be a time when the head is crushed?

The question becomes, "When will the wedding of the Lamb happen?"
We can look to Rev 19 and if we don't try to play games with the timeline we see that the Wedding preceeds the Return of Christ. Verse 7: “Let us rejoice and be glad and give the glory to Him, for the marriage of the Lamb has come and His bride has made herself ready.â€

We see in the Song of Songs that she turn her eyes upon him and causes him to come to her, skipping over the mountains like a roe...



10“My beloved is dazzling and ruddy,
Outstanding among ten thousand.
11“His head is like gold, pure gold;
His locks are like clusters of dates
And black as a raven.
12“His eyes are like doves
Beside streams of water,
Bathed in milk,
And reposed in their setting.
13“His cheeks are like a bed of balsam,
Banks of sweet-scented herbs;
His lips are lilies
Dripping with liquid myrrh.
14“His hands are rods of gold
Set with beryl;
His abdomen is carved ivory
Inlaid with sapphires.
15“His legs are pillars of alabaster
Set on pedestals of pure gold;
His appearance is like Lebanon
Choice as the cedars. 16“His mouth is full of sweetness.
And he is wholly desirable.
This is my beloved and this is my friend,
O daughters of Jerusalem.â€

This Bride adores her husband and has no room left in her heart for adulterous behaviors.

 

[jasoncran]

Name a sinless living Christian? His Name is Jesus. This is the Name above all names, the One that we profess belief in, but some have forgotten that He is alive and waiting for the fruit of the earth. I say this, not to condemn but to stir the memory of the truth that is planted in your heart.

You mentioned Paul. But what did Paul seek to attain to? Was holiness a mere "status" or did it involve identity and behavior? Give me Scripture for your statement that at some point all Christians must die in sin. What did God mean when He declared, "As I live, saith the Lord, my Glory shall fill all heaven and all earth." If the purpose of God is for Jesus to wait for the rotted fruit of the earth there is no longer hope that we will be like Him.

ok that is GOd at our deaths changing us or at his return NOT us being in holiness so perfect that we can condemn sinners to death and judge men this side of the cross.


if we can be that holy we didnt need the cross as its not needed. we need the blood to cleanse us dialy. paul spoke of dying to self daily. he didnt say one day that will stop and then christ will come. it stopped when we die.

his holiness not ours. and christian cant follow himself. that is kinda like saying christ followed the torah when he wrote the torah and empitomised the torah in action and in deed and word.

 

[jasoncran]

One would have to assume that we need to be holy as God is holy in order to be saved..which I don't.

The standard of salvation is not the same as the standard to rule with Christ. Admitting one is a sinner and in need of forgiveness has never been the requirement to become a ruler for eternity.

I think this is a big error to not see that there is a difference between barely escaping death and being a king in God's kingdom forever.

The error of the Pharisees was to claim too much for themselves. They claimed they could see the truth...but were blind. This was the judgment against them. Had they admitted their own blindness they could have been shown the truth.

This is the dividing point for Christians as well. Do we claim more than we are? Do we claim to be saved sinners who still walk in the same powerlessness and weakness we have always walked in? Are we truly walking as disciples who are learning to walk according to the Spirit putting the deeds of the flesh to death while walking in close fellowship with God and the brethren?

If our righteousness is to exceed that of the Pharisees then we need MORE reality in our claims. Are we teaching others to walk in His power forsaking our old strength? Or are we encouraging others to claim a salvation that is self-promoted?

Where are the crowds that used to follow the empowered of the Spirit ones? Where is the manifestation of God's approval towards the saints that makes the world turn upside down?

Are we not Laodiceans?

again you stated we must be holy., if its christ we didnt do it. now then we must allow the holy spirit to work. but we in our power cant do it. the standard was set so that we would lean on christ to make it. the laws job and purpose was to do that for the hebrews.

the law does that for them today and us(though i can use the sage's seven noahide laws)

no one is saying we can live in sin or not grow. but why does it say that abraham believed and righteousness was imputed and yet later we see him a doubting?

 

[Sparkey]

ok that is GOd at our deaths changing us or at his return NOT us being in holiness so perfect that we can condemn sinners to death and judge men this side of the cross.


if we can be that holy we didnt need the cross as its not needed. we need the blood to cleanse us dialy. paul spoke of dying to self daily. he didnt say one day that will stop and then christ will come. it stopped when we die.

his holiness not ours. and christian cant follow himself. that is kinda like saying christ followed the torah when he wrote the torah and empitomised the torah in action and in deed and word.

You state, "If we can be that holy, we didn't need the cross..."

But the fact is, we have all sinned. We all need the death of the sinless one and need to join in the suffering of Christ so that we can rise and walk in the newness of faith. What is the hope, the expectation of our calling?

The word "hope" means expectation. Expectation – "…Christ in you, the hope of glory" (Col 1:27). It does not mean that He just GIVES you some hope. It means Christ in you IS the expectation of glory. He is the glory that is waiting. He is the glory held in expectation. It is Christ in You. And a whole creation is waiting on His appearing. Glory to God. Paul says, "For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed IN US" (Rom 8:18, emphasis added). I Peter 4 verse 13, "But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy."

Where is his glory going to be revealed? - IN YOU! Peter and Paul are both talking about the same thing: the glory that shall be revealed in you. Listen, creation of God. There is a glory waiting to be revealed in you; the Lord of Glory come to be magnified and glorified IN his saints, in his saints. The word "glory" as noted before, by Greek definition means "the self revelation of God" and secondly it means "the divine nature of God in expression". Therefore the word "glory" is not a stagnant, dormant term, but an active term.

"Now unto Him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh IN us, unto him be glory IN the Church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen" (Eph 3:20-21, emphasis added).

Jesus was holy, on this we both agree. But you seem to be stumbled by the conclusion that if we are like him, we will necessarily "condemn sinners to death and judge men this side of the cross" - I agree with you: That kind of "holiness" isn't what any here is speaking of. Holiness did not show itself in our savior that way - but rather we are commanded that we love others as ourselves.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

I have been thinking about this issue for quite a long time now. I think, since God is Holy, we must be Holy, too. Of course we know the popular verse: Be ye Holy; for I Am Holy

Lev 11:44
For I am the LORD your God: ye shall therefore sanctify yourselves, and ye shall be holy; for I am holy

Moses was almost perfect - but the sin of disobedience denied him the Promised Land.


How about the foolish virgins? They were faithful all the while - but a little moment of delay locked them out of glory.


James 2:10
For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point , he is guilty of all.


Lev 5:5
And it shall be, when he shall be guilty in one of these things , that he shall confess that he hath sinned in that thing


How long shall we remain in that little sin, so-called little sin??? If 99.9% holiness can take you to heaven....how about the 0.1% sin or impurity in you. Would God, Who is Pure and Holy permit a 0.1% impurity in His presence?


Acts 5
Ananias and Sapphira were faithful. Along the way they left the track. A tiny lie...it was all over...

In Eph 1:4 Paul said the Christian is one who is "holy and without blame" and Peter said the Christian is to be "without spot and blameless", 2 Pet 3:14. Jesus once said "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.", Mt 5:48.

Man in and of himself can never be perfect, spotless, holy or blameless. What man has to do is be in Christ. When one obeys the gospel by submitting to baptism, baptism puts him into Christ, Gal 3:7; Rom 6:3 and being in Christ one is then covered by Christ's perfect righteousness, perfect holiness. But it takes obedience to God's will to be clothed in Christ's perfect holiness, perfect righteousness. Even under the OT one could be blameless, Lk 1:6, but it took obedience to God's will. Even though John's parents sinned they were still seen by God as righteous and blameless for they walked (present tense) in God's will. Likewise, even though the Christian sins, he can still be blameless, spotless and holy if he walks (present tense) in the light for Christ's blood will cleanse (present tense) him from all sin and that present tense cleasning is what keeps the Christian spotless, holy and blameless, 1 Jn 1:7. And Christ's blood continuously cleanses away all 100% of sins not just 99.9% of them.

 

[jasoncran]

You state, "If we can be that holy, we didn't need the cross..."

But the fact is, we have all sinned. We all need the death of the sinless one and need to join in the suffering of Christ so that we can rise and walk in the newness of faith. What is the hope, the expectation of our calling?

The word "hope" means expectation. Expectation – "…Christ in you, the hope of glory" (Col 1:27). It does not mean that He just GIVES you some hope. It means Christ in you IS the expectation of glory. He is the glory that is waiting. He is the glory held in expectation. It is Christ in You. And a whole creation is waiting on His appearing. Glory to God. Paul says, "For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed IN US" (Rom 8:18, emphasis added). I Peter 4 verse 13, "But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy."

Where is his glory going to be revealed? - IN YOU! Peter and Paul are both talking about the same thing: the glory that shall be revealed in you. Listen, creation of God. There is a glory waiting to be revealed in you; the Lord of Glory come to be magnified and glorified IN his saints, in his saints. The word "glory" as noted before, by Greek definition means "the self revelation of God" and secondly it means "the divine nature of God in expression". Therefore the word "glory" is not a stagnant, dormant term, but an active term.

"Now unto Him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh IN us, unto him be glory IN the Church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen" (Eph 3:20-21, emphasis added).

if i killed you and repented does that mean im not a murderer and never ever commited that crime our would mean that this murderer found grace?

you just defeated your own argument. we become like him because he TRANSFORMED US. HOW DOES THAT HAPPEN? WE GO TO HIM. BUT WE will die with something wrong and god shows mercy when that happens.

so if l live till 120 could in theory before any rapture(hate that word) judge and condomn men because of my attained holiness? if yes why? if not why not? let him who is WITHOUT SIN BE the first to cast the stones. in that case im sin free.

 

[Sparkey]

let him who is WITHOUT SIN BE the first to cast the stones. in that case im sin free.

Neither will I cast stones (said the sinless one). Go and sin no more.

 

[jasoncran]

Neither will I cast stones (said the sinless one). Go and sin no more.

yet you claim we can that holy.

 

[Sparkey]

yet you claim we can that holy.

Either that or Jesus lied when He said, "Go and sin no more."

In that day, a leper humbly implored Jesus to help him, confident that if Jesus wills it, Jesus could make him clean. The leper wondered about the compassion of Christ. Would it extend even to him? Today, we no longer wonder about His compassion. Instead we wonder about his capacity and power. Can he truly cleanse of sin just the same as he did the leper of his day? He can.

 

[Adullam]

again you stated we must be holy., if its christ we didnt do it. now then we must allow the holy spirit to work. but we in our power cant do it. the standard was set so that we would lean on christ to make it. the laws job and purpose was to do that for the hebrews.

the law does that for them today and us(though i can use the sage's seven noahide laws)

no one is saying we can live in sin or not grow. but why does it say that abraham believed and righteousness was imputed and yet later we see him a doubting?

In Christ we DIE to our own ability so that we can be raised into His ability through us. It is no longer I who tries...but Christ who DOES through me.

Only God can justify us...and He does so where we are presently at. A man can become unrighteous afterwards if he does not continue in obedience and humility. No one can privately own an eternal salvation. We must please God through the doing of His will.

 

[Danus]

In Christ we DIE to our own ability so that we can be raised into His ability through us. It is no longer I who tries...but Christ who DOES through me.

Only God can justify us...and He does so where we are presently at. A man can become unrighteous afterwards if he does not continue in obedience and humility. No one can privately own an eternal salvation. We must please God through the doing of His will.

There is a delima in your thought here. On the one hand you say trust in the righteousness of Jesus, then you say you have to please God. What is it you do to please God? Trust in Jesus? Or does it go beyond that? If so, what?

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Indeed. The law etc was given to show us our sinfulness. It was never ment to be kept. As Paul explains in romans.

As far as the OT law is concerned, Lk 1:6 "And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless."

It would have been impossible for John's parents to be righteous/blameless without walking in God's laws, commandments.


It would be impossible for one today to be righteous or blameless without keeping God's NT law/commandments.

Psa 119:172 "...for all thy commandments [are] righteousness."

God's commandments = righteousness.

So when one keeps God's NT law/commandments (such as being water baptized - see my prior post) then he is doing righteousness and is reckoned to be righteous, as John said 'He that doeth righteousness is righteous, 1 Jn 3:7.

Not keeping God's NT law is disobedience/sin/law breaking and God will have vengeance, wrath, indignation upon those that "obey not" the truth/the gospel of Christ, 2 Thess 1:8; Rom 2:8,9.

 

[Down Yokel]

I see your point, but johns parents offered up sacrifice for any transgressions they have. It is impossible to keep the law. No mam can. The whole teaching of Paul in Romans is that the law was given in order to show men that they were sinful. Of course we should try and keep them, but we can't . The only one ever to be without sin is Christ and no one an keep the commandments after they are saved. Period.

Just as an aside. David the murdering adulterator was a man after gods own heart.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

I see your point, but johns parents offered up sacrifice for any transgressions they have. It is impossible to keep the law. No mam can. The whole teaching of Paul in Romans is that the law was given in order to show men that they were sinful. Of course we should try and keep them, but we can't . The only one ever to be without sin is Christ and no one an keep the commandments after they are saved. Period.

Just as an aside. David the murdering adulterator was a man after gods own heart.

It was not impossible for John's parents to keep the law for Luke said they walked "in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless."


Were they perfectly sinless by keeping the OT law perfectly? No, so why does Luke say they were "blameless"? For they kept God's law in offering the appropriate sacrfices for sins as God's law required. So it would have been impossible for them to ever be "blameless" if they did not continue to walk in God's laws and commandments.

One can never be blamesless outside of God's law for outside of God's law is being a disobedient law breaker.

 

[Down Yokel]

And just as they offered sacrifices to remain blameless, so do we confess daily to remain holy.