99.9% Holiness won't take you to Heaven.

[farouk]

Do they?

That is the issue. How real is our faithfulness to God. Is it optional?

We are only reckoned righteous when we are actually abiding in Him and the power of His resurrection.

We can tell how our faithfulness is by whether we are still sinning or not. If we are still sinning then we are not yet arrived at His righteousness. It means we are to keep seeking.

It is like a bell at a fair. The weight is too heavy for anyone to hit the bell. But with the power of Christ we can ding the bell that no man can in his own strength. So no "ding" no strength of Christ yet.

So we are to be divested of our own strength in order to depend on His. THEN we see the purpose of the gospel...to overcome and destroy sins that get in the way of an ongoing intimacy with God.

A:

Again, you seem to be reading into my post the idea that faithfulness to God is optional for the believer. Please don't add ideas to what people say and then attribute them to them.

It's faith in the Lord Jesus Who was obedient unto death even the death of the Cross (Philippians 2) that reckons the believer just before God. It's not the amount of faithfulness to God that we can try to produce in order to try to become acceptable to Him. But as James says, faith without works is dead.

But it's not the works themselves that save.

 

[Adullam]

A:

Again, you seem to be reading into my post the idea that faithfulness to God is optional for the believer. Please don't add ideas to what people say and then attribute them to them.

It's faith in the Lord Jesus Who was obedient unto death even the death of the Cross (Philippians 2) that reckons the believer just before God. It's not the amount of faithfulness to God that we can try to produce in order to try to become acceptable to Him. But as James says, faith without works is dead.

But it's not the works themselves that save.

It is faithfulness to a faithful Jesus that saves. A one time faithfulness produces a spark of life that a continued faithfulness fans into a flame.

 

[Adullam]

One act of faith produces a one time event. But an ongoing faithfulness produces an ongoing event we call...relationship with God.

If we love Jesus then we would obey His commandments...that is faithfulness.

We are saved by grace through faithfulness...

 

[for_his_glory]

We are all sinners saved by the grace of God through confession and faith that is Christ Jesus to believe that he is who he said he was and is as we can never earn our way to heaven on our own merits as our righteousness is as a filthy rag to God. Only God knows the intents of our heart and this flesh will always sin until that of a corruptible body puts on that of an incorruptible body as the mortal puts on that of immortality when Christ returns and we are changed in the twinkling of an eye. Grace pardons us while mercy loves us, but grace does not give us a license to sin, but will forgive us when we do.

1 Corinthians 15:
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.

Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

Ephesians 2:
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

 

[farouk]

It is faithfulness to a faithful Jesus that saves. A one time faithfulness produces a spark of life that a continued faithfulness fans into a flame.

A:

Wrong; you seem to be teaching salvation by works. Ephesians 2,9 says: 'not of works, lest any man should boast'.

My faithfulness isn't worth anything before God. He graciously strengthens me day by day, and encourages me through His Word, with faith in the Savior Whom by His grace I have known for many years. But if it depended on me supposedly somehow producing enough 'faithfulness' and merit to achieve being and abiding in Him, then there would be no hope: this would be works, not faith.

 

[Adullam]

A:

Wrong; you seem to be teaching salvation by works. Ephesians 2,9 says: 'not of works, lest any man should boast'.

My faithfulness isn't worth anything before God. He graciously strengthens me day by day, and encourages me through His Word, with faith in the Savior Whom by His grace I have known for many years. But if it depended on me supposedly somehow producing enough 'faithfulness' and merit to achieve being and abiding in Him, then there would be no hope: this would be works, not faith.

Faithfulness is what we are learning. The Holy Spirit is doing a work in us that are being prepared as the Bride. Don't look down on this work in an effort to defend a past work of the Spirit.

Your faithfulness is actually very precious to God. Otherwise there would be no need of training. We cannot abide in Him without faithfulness. Faithfulness is our response to His faithfulness.

Otherwise the verse would say.. "He loves because He first loved us"

But it is... WE love Him because He first loved us. So He is looking for faithfulness in us as a return for His love.

Without faithfulness it is impossible to please God.

 

[Adullam]

We are all sinners saved by the grace of God through confession and faith that is Christ Jesus to believe that he is who he said he was and is as we can never earn our way to heaven on our own merits as our righteousness is as a filthy rag to God. Only God knows the intents of our heart and this flesh will always sin until that of a corruptible body puts on that of an incorruptible body as the mortal puts on that of immortality when Christ returns and we are changed in the twinkling of an eye. Grace pardons us while mercy loves us, but grace does not give us a license to sin, but will forgive us when we do.

1 Corinthians 15:
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.

Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

Ephesians 2:
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

so we learning to be faithful IN Him. Jesus Christ is not being faithful instead of us. If that were the case then no man could be judged as unrighteous.

 

[Adullam]

1Co 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
1Co 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
1Co 3:12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
1Co 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
1Co 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1Co 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Who is responsible for the materials we are building with????

 

[farouk]

Faithfulness is what we are learning. The Holy Spirit is doing a work in us that are being prepared as the Bride. Don't look down on this work in an effort to defend a past work of the Spirit.

Your faithfulness is actually very precious to God. Otherwise there would be no need of training. We cannot abide in Him without faithfulness. Faithfulness is our response to His faithfulness.

Otherwise the verse would say.. "He loves because He first loved us"

But it is... WE love Him because He first loved us. So He is looking for faithfulness in us as a return for His love.

Without faithfulness it is impossible to please God.

..but it's not my faithfulness that earns me a place in heaven.

It's faith in the work of Christ, Whose perfect obedience unto death (Philippians 2) conquered death and Satan for time and eternity.

 

[Adullam]

..but it's not my faithfulness that earns me a place in heaven.

It's faith in the work of Christ, Whose perfect obedience unto death (Philippians 2) conquered death and Satan for time and eternity.

Yes it is. The robes the saints wear are called...the robes of righteousness...which is the righteousness of the saints. To have a belief in what Jesus did on the cross prepares you for nothing save having an accurate opinion.

We must appropriate the righteousness of God through the death of the old sin nature and the putting on of Christ. As we walk in His righteousness IT BECOMES OUR OWN. We will all be judged by what we have done. Have we overcome sin through faithfulness in abiding in Christ? Or have we walked in the futility of our own minds and continued to sin?

 

[farouk]

Yes it is. The robes the saints wear are called...the robes of righteousness...which is the righteousness of the saints. To have a belief in what Jesus did on the cross prepares you for nothing save having an accurate opinion.

We must appropriate the righteousness of God through the death of the old sin nature and the putting on of Christ. As we walk in His righteousness IT BECOMES OUR OWN. We will all be judged by what we have done. Have we overcome sin through faithfulness in abiding in Christ? Or have we walked in the futility of our own minds and continued to sin?

False doctrine.

'Not of works' is the basis for salvation; 'by grace..,through faith' (Ephesians 2.8&9). Verse 10 says: 'we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them". So the good works are evidence of the faithful Christian, but they don't achieve one jot of the salvation itself, because it's all of Christ.

SOLA FIDE (by faith alone); SOLA GRATIA (by grace alone); SOLI DEO GLORIA (to God alone be the glory).

 

[Adullam]

False doctrine.

'Not of works' is the basis for salvation; 'by grace..,through faith' (Ephesians 2.8&9). Verse 10 says: 'we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them". So the good works are evidence of the faithful Christian, but they don't achieve one jot of the salvation itself, because it's all of Christ.

SOLA FIDE (by faith alone); SOLA GRATIA (by grace alone); SOLI DEO GLORIA (to God alone be the glory).

You are putting you faith in man called Luther...not Christ.

The truth is that what God has started in us He looks to us to remain faithful by giving Him our lives in order to finish what He started. We don't stay at the beginning and just squat there claiming salvation. We don't keep our precious talent safe by putting it in our pockets or burying it in the ground. No we use it and invest it...


John_8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;

We are called to overcome and overcoming is not a one time event. Overcoming takes CONTINUED FAITHFULNESS.
We are only HIS disciple INDEED if we CONTINUE IN HIS WORD. And continuing in His Word does not mean "reading" it everyday, it means Walking in it and Obeying it. The thought of this is so repugnant to religious flesh that it has dreamed up the justification that "Continuing in His Word" is somehow "Works that will DAMN YOU".

There is an ongoing continuance in the Lord.

Act_13:43 Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.

We must continue even through tribulation. If we draw back God will have no pleasure in us.



Act_14:22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

This one is pretty easy to understand.
Rom_11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

Why do you think the Holy Spirit kept emphasizing this concept of continuing in the faith, in the grace of God, and His Word to His servants? The ALTERNATIVE is obvious, NOT CONTINUING IN THE FAITH.

Col_1:23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

You will CONTINUE in the SON and the FATHER if you continue in what you heard in the beginning of your walk.
1Jn_2:24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.

When people come to the Lord (in the beginning) they are full of His love (first love), and have a hatred for sin. Then somewhere along the way they are deceived by a nice sounding doctrine coupled with being a little weary from trials and temptations and they then begin to slow down in the "race" they are running. The Enemy fools them into thinking that God expects them to sin and and even tells them that everything is IMPUTED so just relax and accept the strongholds in your life that you cannot get free from. And this is how Love waxes Cold and many become LUKEWARM and yet think they are FINE.

It is the biggest deception in the Church, today. The Church has FAILED to FULFILL GOD'S LAW THROUGH CHRIST.

THROUGH CHRIST we fulfill the Law, but if you draw back, don't continue, fail to abide in Christ then you are under judgement.

 

[farouk]

Man cannot glory in his own works, however 'religious'; it's all of grace, all of God that anyone is saved.

To attribute this to Luther only and not the Bible is very inaccurate.

'Not of works' (Ephesians 2,9) is plainly what it says and plainly what it means.

Paul could say: 'God forbid that I should glory save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world' (Galatians 6.14).

 

[Adullam]

Man cannot glory in his own works, however 'religious'; it's all of grace, all of God that anyone is saved.

To attribute this to Luther only and not the Bible is very inaccurate.

'Not of works' (Ephesians 2,9) is plainly what it says and plainly what it means.

Paul could say: 'God forbid that I should glory save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world' (Galatians 6.14).

But you are stuck at the very beginning of a Christian walk. Grace is the empowering to walk as Jesus walked.

Remember the parable of the 10 lepers...all were healed but only 1 came back to Jesus to thank Him. The others were perfectly happy to go with their lives as they saw fit. Jesus asked...where are the other 9????

So it is with those who begin in the Spirit but then go off half cocked in their own strength rejoicing no doubt in what God did for them..but not returning to give their lives to the one who saved them.

This is the condition of the modern church. Exploiting God for what He can give...and then only returning lip service to God. That's why they call the Sunday services...services. It is about lip service.

But we are called into a close walk of discipleship in order to walk as Jesus walked. God wants to make us into saints...not just pretend we are.

 

[Down Yokel]

Yes.
but they should repent and make right first.
I mean, who is totally without sin ?
heaven would be empty if 00.1% Sin gets you permanently locked out ,
with no chance to make ammends ever , right ?
Christ is very forgiving.

Is a person who struggles with drugs or sex or whatever single/particular sin (if sin should be the right word...perhaps addiction) heavenworthy? I think this kind of clarifies the OP. Thanks all... for you replys

If 100 per cent holiness in this life is possible then the following scripture s wrong:

1john ch 1 vs
8If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us

 

[Adullam]

If 100 per cent holiness in this life is possible then the following scripture s wrong:

1john ch 1 vs
8If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us

This is one of the most misused and dishonestly used verses in the bible.

It was written concerning gnostics who claimed it was their bodies sinning..not them. Read the rest of the epistle and see that john was stressing that Christians can't sin...because they abide in Christ. Quite a different conclusion!!

 

[Nick]

We think it's difficult? The Holy Spirit is there to guide us.

True, but that doesn't make the Christian walk easy. It's still the narrow path.

A:

Wrong; you seem to be teaching salvation by works. Ephesians 2,9 says: 'not of works, lest any man should boast'.

My faithfulness isn't worth anything before God. He graciously strengthens me day by day, and encourages me through His Word, with faith in the Savior Whom by His grace I have known for many years. But if it depended on me supposedly somehow producing enough 'faithfulness' and merit to achieve being and abiding in Him, then there would be no hope: this would be works, not faith.

Ah, but verse 10 says that, and to quote Danus's signature, "we are not good to be saved, we are saved to be good." God has prepared works beforehand for us to walk in. If we are not walking in these works, we are not saved, as our faithfulness, made only poss8ible by the Holy Spirit, produces good works and fruits of the spirit.

So yeah, salvation by faith, but if nothing's changed, and you are not continuing to grow in Him....where's that faith? Your faith in that chair holding your weight is only real faith when you decide to sit down on the chair.

 

[Down Yokel]

This is one of the most misused and dishonestly used verses in the bible.

It was written concerning gnostics who claimed it was their bodies sinning..not them. Read the rest of the epistle and see that john was stressing that Christians can't sin...because they abide in Christ. Quite a different conclusion!!

I'm really sorry, but you are completely wrong. Even the plain reading of it is clear. He's addressing Christians and showing that those who claim to have no sin are those that are not of them.

Can you find one biblical commentator that takes your position?

 

[jasoncran]

if i could acheive sin less perfection there would be the verses for that. the law was meant to force men to look to god for mercy. our perfection was never required.

oh i am NOT an osaser. i believe that one can walk away from christ.

 

[Down Yokel]

if i could acheive sin less perfection there would be the verses for that. the law was meant to force men to look to god for mercy. our perfection was never required.

oh i am NOT an osaser. i believe that one can walk away from christ.

Leaving the oaser aside, I completely agree. The closer we walk with God , the more holy we become. But that is not to say we can be 100 per cent holy. No one is, 100 percent justified yes. The first chapter of corinthians describes the security of the believers at corenth. But then goes on to describe the troubles they are having. That is referring to their state. Their standing is justified but their state is sinful and Paul is telling them how to behave and get on with it.