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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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J
John the Baptist
Guest
I completely agree that the Sabbath commandment was based on God's resting on the 7th of creation. But note that God rested on thee 7th day, it doesn't say every 7 days. But as already been discussed and carefully noted in God's Word, Israel receives the Sabbath commandment later. In the humor & tradition of the 'changed Sabbath day challenge', this maybe a great place to issue the 'Biblically prove Adam, Noah or Abraham observed the Sabbath Challenge' and win $100.
****
I just am not in your class. (if you know what I mean)
Take care! 'Blessed' 'set aside for Holy use'?? that is kind of complicated, perhaps like one in seven women only being my or your 'blessed & set for Holy use wife'. (in that case, poor Mrs. Hammond or Mrs. Scott?
Whatever? forget it, on with your agenda. Daniel 7:25.
---John
****
I just am not in your class. (if you know what I mean)
Take care! 'Blessed' 'set aside for Holy use'?? that is kind of complicated, perhaps like one in seven women only being my or your 'blessed & set for Holy use wife'. (in that case, poor Mrs. Hammond or Mrs. Scott?
Whatever? forget it, on with your agenda. Daniel 7:25.
---John
S
SputnikBoy
Guest
Scott said:
Sputnik: And your position is, from what I understand, that at some point in time 'the Sabbath' will become a 'mark of the beast' issue ...right? Or, at least, this is an SDA position that you take exception to ...correct? Obviously, I know all about the SDA Revelation Seminars that deal with this topic and have actually participated in a couple of them way back in the last century (about 8 years ago). So, I'm well aware of the implications that pertain to the change of the Sabbath from the seventh-day to the first by ...whoever.
My personal take on this entire matter of the Sabbath is that I don't know what the future holds because it hasn't happened yet ...simple as that. I don't regard an SDA Revelation Seminar as the equivalent to a crystal ball or as information that we should carve into stone. I DO believe, however, that the SDAs have done some fine homework on Bible prophecy, probably the best I've seen and heard. I also believe that, in time, much of their interpretation of the prophesies will be revealed as having been pretty close to the truth. I CHOOSE to 'keep' the Sabbath (Saturday) for that reason alone and I don't push the Sabbath on to anyone else. I DO feel a need to defend it at times, however, on threads such as this.
But, that's just my take. I don't say that it should be everyone else's. And, of course, before one can criticize SDA beliefs on this and other problematic Christian issues, they first need to have an understanding as to WHAT, exactly, those SDA beliefs are. I wonder how many people, for instance, REALLY understand WHY and HOW SDAs arrive at the Sabbath in regard to the mark of the beast? Unless they do, they can hardly debate this issue based on the thread title.
I believe there are too many on forums such as this who base their opinions and prejudices on half-truths. On the other hand, others who know nothing about SDA beliefs might well be influenced by the mainstream 'theologians' on this forum who can present their case in an academic and impressive manner. Impressive presentation by academics, however, does not necessarily make it the truth. I say the same about SDA doctrines. They (the doctrines) either hold up as per scripture or they don't. If they don't, then I agree with those who say that they should be thrown out. Scriptural prophesies REALLY DO seem to make a case for obedience to God as being an important criteria in last day events!
Is there any chance that the SDA beliefs, as per scripture, that actually culminate in the Sabbath playing an important role in future events be presented on this forum for discussion purposes? Or, would that be seen as a TOS violation with regard to promoting a denomination? If so, why don't you, Scott, as an SDA oponent, present those particular doctrines yourself in their entirety in order to REALLY make your point as to how 'off the mark' Seventh-day Adventists really are? An opportunity for others to evaluate, criticize, and critique these doctrines surely wouldn't pose a problem, would it?
One thing seems pretty clear to me. Unless people know what the issue is to begin with, then how can it be properly debated? That is what is happening here ...few people really know what they're talking about and yet they come across as experts on the topic.
S
Servant_2000
Guest
Were SDA doctrines based on EGW visions and then confirmed in Scripture
or
were SDA doctrines found in Scripture and only then confirmed by EGW visions.
Which way is it?
or
were SDA doctrines found in Scripture and only then confirmed by EGW visions.
Which way is it?
servant_2000 said:
Certain Adventist doctrines (such as the investigative judgement and 1844) were validated by your second choice (Never the first option). However most of the other Adventist doctrines didn't need confirmation (nor received any as far as I know).
The Sabbath was kept throughout history and introduced by Seventh Day Baptists. Even Charles Wesley, the founder of Methodism kept the Sabbath. If you actually looked at early Adventism, you would merely see a reflection of early-Methodism, not some new cult as the most paranoid among us would have you believe.
Non-immortality of the soul was believed by some Reformers including William Tyndale and Martin Luther.
The belief that the Papacy is the Beast of Revelation and the Whore of Babylon was a Protestant Reformer staple belief
The validity of eternal torment has been an issue from the beginning of the church (even Origen brought up points about it)
It is interesting that many non-Adventist scholars for the last 100 years (and especially the last 20) are finding more and more biblical validity to what the SDAs have held dear for the last 150 years, and abandoning the traditional views.
Of course, the ignorant among us would say that is because they are being deceived and apostasizing from the 'truth'
It is also the ignorant and bitter opponent of the SDA church that lowers our doctrines as merely a product of the rantings of a deranged and senile 'false prophet' of a woman. :roll:
I do find this quite funny guibox, since you're among the reformed SDA's who are actually moving farther away from your SDA roots and trying to blend in with Christian denomintations. Funny how the 'scholars' are finding truths in SDA doctrine, and your little sect breakaway isn't anymore... ;-) . Are you sending us subliminal messages here? :-?
Scott said:
Not at all. I call it for how I see it. There has been enough scriptural and historical evidence for me to doubt some of our prophetic interpretation, particularily Daniel 8:14 and 1844. This is because I truly do believe in Sola Scriptura and am open minded enough to know that the Adventist church is not infallible.
This doesn't mean that all the other churches who try to interpret this are correct either. This is where the hypocrisy lies. The SDAs are brutally criticized for their stand on prophetic interpretation but yet nothing is said about the myriad of other intepretations even more far out and biblically unprovable then the SDAs. This lack of silence on that part and open criticism of the SDAs implies that the critics must believe that all the other interpretations are true and solid.
This is false and hypcritical.
I am in no way separating myself from my roots as most of the doctrine of the Adventists is biblically sound and if the SDAs renounced me and kicked me out tomorrow, I would still believe in the validity of the Sabbath, the non-immortality of the soul and annihilation. Why? Because they are completely biblical as more and more scholarly research from all denominations by open minded scholars is proving.
I believe in the 'prophetic' role of EGW. However, I don't view her as infallible or the be-all and end-all of theological interpretation. She herself didn't believe in this as her roles either. In so doing, I am following the roots of my faith as it should be. It is all the other 'EGW on a pedastal' Adventists who are wrong and moving away from the roots, not I!
I am not a Reformed Adventist but merely a progressive one. (As I believe even EGW said we should be).
S
SputnikBoy
Guest
Scott said:
Sputnik: I feel that to be a loaded question, Scott. It's loaded because you know as well as I do that the forum will not allow a complete explanation of all of the relevant (SDA? Scriptural?) points that lead to a 'yes or no' to your question. Having said that, no SDA interpretation of future prophesy is set into concrete and I hope that most SDAs know that.
I asked you previously, Scott, whether it would be permissable to present those SDA doctrines that point to the Sabbath as being an issue regarding last day events. Unless people know WHAT those beliefs are and HOW they were arrived at, a simple 'yes or no' to your question will not suffice. A 'yes' without the means to further explain, however, will only serve to give you more ammunition with which to attack the SDA Church.
S
SputnikBoy
Guest
As an addendum to my previous post ...WOULD it be permissable to present the SDA doctrines as supported by scripture that lead to the answer to your question, Scott? Or, can people be otherwise directed to a website that will explain WHY SDAs believe what they do? Unless this be permissable, the 'Sabbath debate' will not only remain unresolvable but it will always be extremely one-sided. Or, is this the way you prefer it?
J
John the Baptist
Guest
SputnikBoy said:
*****
What kind of material are you made of??? Can I do this or can I do that Scott? What on earth kind of reply do you now, look for?
GOD COMMANDED in Exodus 20:8-11! This loving E.G.W., converted, Adventist loving guy, was not even around then! (thank goodness) And you ask 'who' (see Genesis 4:7) for permission to post VIRGIN TRUTH!
: --John
In line with great cheap-shotters like Bill Romanowski and Todd Bertuzzi, JtB you really do spare no one at all, do you?!? Don't be so quick to jump all over people, especially when you don't like the question (or in this case who it was addressed to). He (Sputnik) just asked a question and was possibly confused since UR is a banned topic on these forums.
Let me first answer your questions Sputnik. As far as I'm aware, SDA is not a banned subject on these forums. JayT, Soma, guibox & JtB all have shared doctrine or posted links at one time or another. JayT even quotes EGW frequently and hasn't been banned yet by the Admins. So if you have something you'd like to post relevant to the subject, then by all means share it. Not to discourage you from using links, but most often I'm more interested in what you the individual has to say (generally speaking) as opposed to reading it off a website you give me a link to.
S
SputnikBoy
Guest
Scott said:
Sputnik: Thanks Scott. Sorry about JtB.
J
Jay T
Guest
When one understands Romans 6:16 fully !!!Moge said:
Romans 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Some Anti-Christian power set up Sunday worship services (Daniel 7:25....'think to change times and laws').....in opposition of God's 4th commandment (Exodus 20:8-11).
Also...the fact that Jesus Christ warns people about worshipping Himself...in vain ....following the traditions of men, (Matthew 15:3,9).
The 7th day Sabbath is a matter of life or eternal death....when the matter of the Mark of the Beast comes to view !
Grow up! If you get high-centered on something as meaningless as the Sabbath, what are you going to do when you have to judge angels? [/quote]
Had the Bible been studied as it should, the knowledge that satan, the most powerful and intelligent angel God ever created, is the mastermind behind Sunday worship services, as he has gotten to Christian world to disobey God, while at the same time, they believe they are loyal to Him !?!
J
Jay T
Guest
When one understands Romans 6:16 fully !!!Moge said:
Romans 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Some Anti-Christian power set up Sunday worship services (Daniel 7:25....'think to change times and laws').....in opposition of God's 4th commandment (Exodus 20:8-11).
Also...the fact that Jesus Christ warns people about worshipping Himself...in vain ....following the traditions of men, (Matthew 15:3,9).
The 7th day Sabbath is a matter of life or eternal death....when the matter of the Mark of the Beast comes to view !
Grow up! If you get high-centered on something as meaningless as the Sabbath, what are you going to do when you have to judge angels? [/quote]
Had the Bible been studied as it should, the knowledge that satan, the most powerful and intelligent angel God ever created, is the mastermind behind Sunday worship services, as he has gotten to Christian world to disobey God, while at the same time, they believe they are loyal to Him !?!
S
Servant_2000
Guest
Jay T...
You sound too good to be true. If you're for real, then there are many many answers which will be coming your way if you dare to continue on this website.
But if you're not for real, then you'll be wasting your time. You won't be wasting our time, for pharisaical or saddusaical "traps" only sharpen our skills in interpreting Scripture.
First of all: Have you been reading anything like the book "National Sunday Law" (Amazing Truth Publications, P.O. Box 68, Thompsonville, IL 62890, 1998) by A. Jan Marcussen?
If so, then all bets are off. Back off. Your dealing with occultism and sophistry at its most deceptive. "What the truth is" has no meaning to a bamboozled, cultified, mystified, eyes-glazed-over person. Only what feeds his addiction has meaning -- until he is confronted by the raw power of Christ.
In addition, you may be endangering yourself just trying to use us and your own intellectual prowess to break through and enlighten such a person.
My advice: Before you "ask us," prayerfully read the book of Mark. It's thrilling to read about how terrified the evil spirits were when they saw Jesus coming. For example, Mark 1:23 NIV: "A man in their synagogue who was possessed by an evil spirit cried out, 'What do you want with us, Jesus of Nazareth? Have you come to destroy us? I know who you are -- the Holy One of God!"
Feeling the thrill? There is safety, power, strength, and rest only in Jesus Christ when it comes to the occult. And make no mistake, you are dealing with powers far beyond yourself, even if you profess yourself to be a Christian.
For an example of how professed believers were literally beaten by the powers of the occult, read Acts 19:13-20 NIV:
***********
Some Jews who went around driving out evil spirits tried to invoke the name of the Lord Jesus over those who were demon-possessed. They would say, "In the name of Jesus, whom Paul preaches, I command you to come out." Seven sons of Scceva, a Jewish chief priest, were doing this. One day the evil spirit answered them, "Jesus I know, and I know about Paul, but who are you?" Then the man who had the evil spirit jumped on them and overpowered them all. He gave them such a beating that they ran out of the house naked and bleeding.
When this became known to the Jews and Greeks living in Ephesus, they were all seized with fear, and the name of the Lord Jesus was held in high honor. Many of those who believed now came and openly confessed their evil deeds. A number who had praciced sorcery brought their scrolls together and burned them publicly. When they determined the value of the scrolls, the total came to fifty thousand drachmas. In this way the word of the Lord spread widely and grew in power."
***********
What I believe is happening on this website is this: The word of the Lord is spreading more and more widely and growing in power. Thus we WILL attract the attention of the forces of evil.
But we must not fear, for we learn from the book of Mark, that the presence of Jesus Christ in the form of the Holy Spirit in our hearts is more than a match for all the forces of evil in the world. For, "the earth is the Lord's and the fullness thereof." And, "Be not afraid, for I have overcome the world," Jesus says.
In short, they're afraid of Him and they flee from Him. If they're lucky He'll take pity on them and send them into a herd of pigs (Matthew 8) which dumb brutes will seek cover by diving into a lake and drowning.
Remember, God is not mocked. And this website is no joke. Now, are you for real?
You sound too good to be true. If you're for real, then there are many many answers which will be coming your way if you dare to continue on this website.
But if you're not for real, then you'll be wasting your time. You won't be wasting our time, for pharisaical or saddusaical "traps" only sharpen our skills in interpreting Scripture.
First of all: Have you been reading anything like the book "National Sunday Law" (Amazing Truth Publications, P.O. Box 68, Thompsonville, IL 62890, 1998) by A. Jan Marcussen?
If so, then all bets are off. Back off. Your dealing with occultism and sophistry at its most deceptive. "What the truth is" has no meaning to a bamboozled, cultified, mystified, eyes-glazed-over person. Only what feeds his addiction has meaning -- until he is confronted by the raw power of Christ.
In addition, you may be endangering yourself just trying to use us and your own intellectual prowess to break through and enlighten such a person.
My advice: Before you "ask us," prayerfully read the book of Mark. It's thrilling to read about how terrified the evil spirits were when they saw Jesus coming. For example, Mark 1:23 NIV: "A man in their synagogue who was possessed by an evil spirit cried out, 'What do you want with us, Jesus of Nazareth? Have you come to destroy us? I know who you are -- the Holy One of God!"
Feeling the thrill? There is safety, power, strength, and rest only in Jesus Christ when it comes to the occult. And make no mistake, you are dealing with powers far beyond yourself, even if you profess yourself to be a Christian.
For an example of how professed believers were literally beaten by the powers of the occult, read Acts 19:13-20 NIV:
***********
Some Jews who went around driving out evil spirits tried to invoke the name of the Lord Jesus over those who were demon-possessed. They would say, "In the name of Jesus, whom Paul preaches, I command you to come out." Seven sons of Scceva, a Jewish chief priest, were doing this. One day the evil spirit answered them, "Jesus I know, and I know about Paul, but who are you?" Then the man who had the evil spirit jumped on them and overpowered them all. He gave them such a beating that they ran out of the house naked and bleeding.
When this became known to the Jews and Greeks living in Ephesus, they were all seized with fear, and the name of the Lord Jesus was held in high honor. Many of those who believed now came and openly confessed their evil deeds. A number who had praciced sorcery brought their scrolls together and burned them publicly. When they determined the value of the scrolls, the total came to fifty thousand drachmas. In this way the word of the Lord spread widely and grew in power."
***********
What I believe is happening on this website is this: The word of the Lord is spreading more and more widely and growing in power. Thus we WILL attract the attention of the forces of evil.
But we must not fear, for we learn from the book of Mark, that the presence of Jesus Christ in the form of the Holy Spirit in our hearts is more than a match for all the forces of evil in the world. For, "the earth is the Lord's and the fullness thereof." And, "Be not afraid, for I have overcome the world," Jesus says.
In short, they're afraid of Him and they flee from Him. If they're lucky He'll take pity on them and send them into a herd of pigs (Matthew 8) which dumb brutes will seek cover by diving into a lake and drowning.
Remember, God is not mocked. And this website is no joke. Now, are you for real?
J
John the Baptist
Guest
servant_2000 said:
***
Wow! "Ye take too much upon you, seeing all the congregation are holy, every one of them, and the Lord is among them." Huh? Numbers 16:1-5
---John
S
Servant_2000
Guest
John the Baptist said:
Thanks for so prompt a reply.
"I would rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God than dwell in the tents of Adventism." Psalm 84:10 NIV (with apology for changing one word).
J
John the Baptist
Guest
servant_2000 said:
Thanks for so prompt a reply.
"I would rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God than dwell in the tents of Adventism." Psalm 84:10 NIV (with apology for changing one word).[/quote:a7357]
*******My advice: Before you "ask us,"
John here: Are you speaking for the whole group here now? :angel: And you think that Korah will go to heaven???
Any way, your 'posting spirit' comes across sounding more as the one in Isaiah 14:12-16 than a heavenly Sanctuary door keeper or greeter, to me? Read your postings back to yourself?? You really like Adventists huh?
I think that you were defining Jay T. by name, even?? Whatever??
I suspect to see you as a sweet Born Again moderator door keeper, with warning bells in your posting for even me, before long, huh? You know, mother, may I,I,I,I,I! :fadein:
There are lots of us who are not Adventist's who Keep the Lords Blessed & set aside for Holy use 7th Day Sabbath!
He tells me that if I love Him, keep His commandments! And I do Love Him, how about you???
Is there enough evidence in the heavenly RECORD BOOKS to prove your door keeping positions worth?
You know, "Let us hear the conclusion of the WHOLE MATTER: Fear God and keep [HIS COMMANDMENTS]: for this is the WHOLE DUTY of man." (even door keepers?)
And the house of your God you say? Who is your God??? Honestly Speaking, I can not be sure!?? Give me some spiritual evidence please??
Is it Jay T. who is one of these below, or you?? And again: "Ask us"? Seems that there is already a conspiracy with these 'us' ones huh?
And surely being out in the open is not Christ's way for the evil one seen in Genesis 49:17. Can't you just hear the computor keys in the background?? :wink:
"He that saith, I know (LOVE?) Him, and keepeth not His Commandments, is a liar, and the TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM."!! But whoso keepeth his Word, IN him verily is the love OF GOD PERFECTED: hereby KNOW WE THAT WE ARE IN HIM."! 1 John 2:4-5. And "IN" CHRIST?? See Romans 8:1!
---John
S
Soma-Sight
Guest
John the Baptist,
That was a deep post man! 8-)
That was a deep post man! 8-)