A Saviour unto Israel ?

[savedbygrace57]

Israel shall be saved in the Lord !cont

Gal 3:26

For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

So all whom have Faith in Christ Jesus belong to that Israel of Isa 45:17,25 !

Salvation of this Israel is based upon a Promise without conditions upon the ones going to be saved !

Remember Paul refers to the Promise of Isa 45:17 here Rom 11:25-26

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Israel here is the Israel of promise in Isa 45:17, 25

But again, Israel of Promise does not denote all Abraham's Physical Descendants of the Flesh, not that Israel. Remember Paul mentions Israel after the flesh here 1Cor 10:18

Behold Israel after the flesh: are not they which eat of the sacrifices partakers of the altar?

Thats not the Israel of Isa 45:17,25 nor Rom 11:26. Look If all Israel meant all ethnic jews without exception, there is a serious contradiction with Rom 9:27

27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel[National], Though the number of the children of Israel[National] be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:

The Promise for that Nation is not all without exception but a remnant ! The word remnant means:

Remains or what is left behind, which is equivalent to only a few, a small portion ! Read Isa 1:9

Except the Lord of hosts had left unto us a very small remnant, we should have been as Sodom, and we should have been like unto Gomorrah.

Ladies and Gentleman, out of Ethnic Israel, the Nation, Abraham's Children after the Flesh, God has promised to save only a small portion of them, a very small remnant !

Never is it all of them without exception ! Not even most of them !

This fact poses an big serious problem to those who falsely believe and teach, that all Israel of the Flesh or of that Nation shall be saved according to Rom 11:26, Isa 45:17,25.

All who believe such false teaching are deceived and probably will remain that way until Christ comes or their death !

The All Israel that shall be saved,are all the Children of God, who shall be made evident by their Faith in Christ, whether ethnic jew or Gentile, Abraham is the Father of us All, If we are of Faith !

Rom 4:16

Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

The Seed of Isa 45:25

25 In the Lord shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory.

 

[savedbygrace57]

For the Elect's Sake !

2 Tim 2:10

10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

Its God's Elect of both out of the jews and gentiles that God purposed them to obtain Eternal Salvation with Eternal Glory, which is In Christ Jesus !

Now that has always been God's Purpose, that a Elect People [Israel] would be saved with an Everlasting Salvation and Glory Isa 45:17,25

17 But Israel shall be saved in the Lord[Christ Jesus ] with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

25 In the Lord[Christ Jesus ] shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory.

Paul knows that their [ God's Elect from both jew and gentile] experientially obtaining Salvation was a sure thing because it rested upon God's Promise unto His Elect People Israel, which did include Chosen Gentiles which had been a Mystery, that means God's Israel, His Elect, the Seed of Israel of Isa 45:17,25, to whom the Promise pertained,were also Gentiles outside of the ethnic Israel jewish race Jn 10:16. It cannot be made more plainer that the Elect of 2 Tim 2:10 were inclusive of Gentiles, for His [Paul's] Apostleship and Ministry were unto the Gentiles, notice Paul's statement earlier to Timothy 2 Tim 1:10-11

10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

11 Whereunto I am appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles.

That was for the Gentile portion of the Israel that was promised Salvation with Glory Isa 45:17,25

17 But Israel shall be saved in the Lord with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

25 In the Lord shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory.

 

[savedbygrace57]

Israel the Election and the Church the same !

We know that Israel the Election as in Rom 11:5-7

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

And

Eph 5:25

25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

We know they are Identical when we consider that Jacob is His Inheritance Deut 32:9

9 For the Lord's portion is his people; Jacob is the lot of his inheritance.

which is also stated the same of the Church in the NT, The Church Chosen in Christ before the Foundation Eph 1:4, for whom Christ gave Himself Eph 5:25, is also the Lords inheritance Eph 1:18

18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,

Paul even Identifies the OT Saints, which were Elect Jews, as being of the same household with the NT Saints which is comprised of Gentiles and Jews Eph 2:19

19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

The Household of God is His Inheritance !

The Saints and Household of God here reaches to the OT Saints, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob along with the whole of the household of Faith Gal 6:10

10 As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.

The Household of Faith includes all the Spiritual seed of Abraham under both Testaments Rom 4:16

Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

 

[savedbygrace57]

Israel the Election and the Church the same ! 2

We know that Israel, the Election, and the Church, the Body of Christ are the same when we consider this:

Psalm 132:13

13 For the Lord hath chosen Zion; he hath desired it for his habitation. Compared to Eph 1:4

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

First of all, God's Chosen are His Chosen,there are no two groups of people that are God's Chosen !

All ethnic jews in Israel were not God's Chosen, Jesus makes that clear here Matt 22:14

14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

Paul as well here Rom 11:7

7 What then? Israel[National] hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election or Chosen of that Nationhath obtained it, and the rest[of National Israel] were blinded.

Nothing is more plainer here than that all national Israel was not God's Election or Chosen !

Now the Chosen Zion of Ps 132:13,4 is the same as the Chosen in Eph 1:4. Notice what is stated of this Zion "he[God] hath desired it for his habitation."

And that forever Vs 14 Which denotes permanently !

Now what does the same Cod Breathed scripture say of the Chosen of Eph 1:4 which we know is the Church [Eph 5:25], what says it here Eph 2:21-22

21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

Now interestingly the greek word for habitation here is katoikētērion and means:

an abode, a habitation, and it implies permanency Remember Jesus words here Jn 14:23

Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

That word abode also means:

lodging, dwelling-place, room, abode, mansion.


Notice again what is said of the Church Eph 2:22

"builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit."

Now is not that the same exact dwelling place of God referred to here Ps 132:13,14

13 For the Lord hath chosen Zion; he hath desired it for his habitation.

14 This is my rest for ever: here will I dwell; for I have desired it.

Yes it is, for God in both places is speaking of His Chosen, and they being His Dwelling forever ! How can this be ? Its because they are the same Eternal Tabernacle of God !

Rev 21:3


And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

Israel the Election and the Church the same ! 2

We know that Israel, the Election, and the Church, the Body of Christ are the same when we consider this:

Not going to join this discussion other than to say this: The Church and Israel are not the same. The promises given Abraham have not passed to the church. There is nothing in the Bible that can be shown to indicate this. The Church will be dealt with differently than Israel. Israel will come into its promised land again, without fear of strife or opposition (unlike now) in the Millenial Kingdom. The evidence for this is overwhelming.

 

[savedbygrace57]

Israel the Election and the Church the same ! 3

Also scripture saith that He, God The LORD, hath Chosen Jerusalem Zech 3:2

2 And the Lord said unto Satan, The Lord rebuke thee, O Satan; even the Lord that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?

Now What Jerusalem hath God Chosen, not that one which was compared with hagar the slave woman and her children as Per Gal 4:25

25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

But that Jerusalem from above which is free, which is the Mother of us all who are of Faith, the Israel of God Gal 4:26

26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

Gal 6:16

16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

Which is also the Jerusalem of Heb 12:22,23

22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

Which is also the church of the firstborn !

23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

That is to say, those whose names have been written in Heaven, are the Church, whom Christ is the firstborn and Head of !

Now who is the firstborn ? Col 1:18

18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

Col 1:15

15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

Now in the Heb 12:23 verse, the word is in the plural, which is fine because it means all the members of the body of the Firstborn from the dead, which is plainly called the Church, hence, The Church, the Body of Christ is Jerusalem whom God hath Chosen, also Mt Zion !

 

[savedbygrace57]

thisn

Not going to join this discussion other than to say this: The Church and
Israel are not the same.

Yes it is. Thats what I have been proving and giving evidence of with scripture which you have evaded. Like post 264. Do you understand the points I made about God's Chosen Habititation ? Care to discuss those points with me ?

 

[savedbygrace57]

Salvation is of the Jews !

Jn 4:22

Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

Almost everyone thinks that Jesus means here ethnic jews, Abraham's physical children according to the flesh. But He does not mean them, He means Abraham's Children of Promise, the Children of God, who first enter this world through the flesh. Rom 9:8

That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Salvation is of those Jews who constitute the Children of God, the Seed of the Children of the Promise !

What constitutes being a Jew or an Israelites indeed in God's Eyes ?

There at least three important guidelines in scripture that are typified by Abraham's Physical descendants of the flesh, ethnic Israel.

First to be a Jew or Israelite, one must have had a relationship with Abraham or to be considered the seed of Abraham !

The physical jew did have this relationship and often boasted of it Jn 8:33,37

33 They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?

37 I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.
Jesus was saying that He knew they were the Children of the Flesh Rom 9:8a

8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God:

Remember later Jesus said this to them Jn 8:42

42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

That confirms Rom 9:8 that mere physically being of Abraham's seed did not make God your Father !

Secondly, In order to be a jew or Israelite in the Covenant Community of Israel one had to be circumcised. Remember Paul rehearsing his fleshly confidences stated Phil 3:4-5

4 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:

5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;

See Lev 12:3; Gen 17:9-12


Thirdly, to be a Jew, and Israelite, one had to keep the law of God Exodus 20 Deut 5, 10:12

12 And now, Israel, what doth the Lord thy God require of thee, but to fear the Lord thy God, to walk in all his ways, and to love him, and to serve the Lord thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul,

These things constituted Israel , the Jews !

 

[Agape]

Salvation is of the Jews !

Jn 4:22

Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

Almost everyone thinks that Jesus means here ethnic jews, Abraham's physical children according to the flesh. But He does not mean them, He means Abraham's Children of Promise, the Children of God, who first enter this world through the flesh.

You [Gentiles] worship what you do not know; we [Jews] know what we [Jews] worship, for salvation is of the Jews.

It means what it says. The Jews worshiped God in a place appointed by Him and offered sacrifices in accordance with the direction and teaching of the prophets. On the other hand, the Samaritans rejected their teachings and worshiped God on Mount Gerizim. .

The promises of salvation, and of a Savior, were made to the Jews and the Messiah was to spring from them. The Samaritan woman knew that Jesus was a Jew (John 4:9) and that a Messiah was coming (John 4:25).

 

[savedbygrace57]

Salvation is of the Jews ! 2

Now what has been typified by ethnic Israel, is fulfilled in Christ Abraham's Seed Gal 3:16

16 Now to Abraham and his seed[Israel] were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed Israel, which is Christ.

#1. All who belong to Christ, that is which are believing in Him, they are Abraham's Seed Gal 3:29

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Thats an criteria for being Israel, a Jew which ethnic Israel typified !

This had nothing to do with race or ethnicity or even gender, but only Faith in Christ. For God had revealed to Abraham centuries earlier that he had a seed amongst the nations Gen 17:5

5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father[f a seed] of many nations have I made thee.

And Abraham's Fatherhood here in Gen 17:5 is here expressed by Paul here in Rom 13-18

13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:

15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.

18 Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.

This is Israel, Abraham's Seed consisting in both jew and gentiles who are made believers by supernatural birth which was typified by Isaacs Birth.

This is one of the criteria for being Israel, a Jew, that being, of Abraham's Seed ! In this, Abraham's Seed is the Body of Christ, the Church because it belongs to Christ Gal 3:29 ! Can this Israel be the Church here then ? Isa 41:18

But thou, Israel, art my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham my friend. Yes it can be, and it is !

 

[savedbygrace57]

agape

You [Gentiles] worship what you do not know; we
[Jews] know what we [Jews] worship, for salvation is of the
Jews.

She was actually a Samaritan, mixed with jewish blood. The woman had a physical connection with Abraham and Jacob and even called Jacob her Father because of it Jn 4:12

12 Art thou greater than our father Jacob, which gave us the well, and drank thereof himself, and his children, and his cattle?

Also, the statement " ye worship ye know not what " applied to ethnic jews also who were by their tradition ignorant of the True God and His Worship, Paul brings that out here Rom 10:1-3

Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.

2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge[So ignorant].

3 For they[National Israel as a whole] being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

The jews however that Salvation is from, are not ignorant of God and do and worship God in Spirit and in Truth !

So in Jn 4:22

22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

Jesus could not have been Identifying with ethnic and ignorant of God jews in the flesh because they knew not what they worshipped !

 

[Agape]

agape



She was actually a Samaritan, mixed with jewish blood. The woman had a physical connection with Abraham and Jacob and even called Jacob her Father because of it Jn 4:12

12 Art thou greater than our father Jacob, which gave us the well, and drank thereof himself, and his children, and his cattle?

Also, the statement " ye worship ye know not what " applied to ethnic jews also who were by their tradition ignorant of the True God and His Worship, Paul brings that out here Rom 10:1-3

Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.

2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge[So ignorant].

3 For they[National Israel as a whole] being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

The jews however that Salvation is from, are not ignorant of God and do and worship God in Spirit and in Truth !

So in Jn 4:22

22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

Jesus could not have been Identifying with ethnic and ignorant of God jews in the flesh because they knew not what they worshipped !

He did NOT say WE don't know what WE worship" and I did not say that the Lord identified Himself with the Samaritan. :angry2

I said that "We" meant we "Jews".

 

[savedbygrace57]

Salvation is of the Jews ! 3

#2. Also that which the ethnic jews typified as Israel is Circumcision, however this also is fulfilled in Christ, for the circumcision of Christ Col 2:11

11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

This circumcision is performed by the effects of Christ's Cross Work,its Heart circumcision by New Birth. This is the beginning of a New Life, the putting off of the old life through partaking of the New Life.

The Lord Jesus Christ as the Resurrected head of His Body, quickens or gives Life to all for whom He died 1 Cor 15:45

45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

ESV Thus it is written, “The first man Adam became a living beingâ€; the last Adam became a life-giving spirit.

This corresponds to what Peter wrote in being begotten again, and how ? By the Resurrection of Christ from the dead 1 Pet 1:3

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his abundant mercy has begotten us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

ESV 2001 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

And by this one is given a New Circumcised Heart, the circumcision of Christ Rom 2:28-29


28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:

29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Phil 3:3

3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.

The True Jews of Israel Rejoice in Christ Jesus !

Paul here in Phil 3:3 saying we are of the circumcision, is not speaking about ethnic jews though some may be included in those He was writing to, however He is speaking of both jew and gentile believers in Christ, who belong to Christ, and who are Abraham's Seed via that mode as Gal 3:29 .

This circumcision had nothing to do with with that he writes of in Vs 5 Phil 3:5, no, what constituted one to be of this circumcision, who worships by the Spirit of God [ New Birth] and Glory in Christ Jesus, meaning His Cross Gal 6:14

14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.

The word Glory is the same word rejoice in Phil 3:3 !

Also See Jn 4:23-24

23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers[Israel] shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

This comes through the Circumcision of Christ to the Israel of God !

 

[savedbygrace57]

Salvation is of the Jews ! 4

And thirdly or #3 Israel keeps the Law of God, the commandments of God. Remember it was said of the aged Saints early in NT History that they kept the commandments of God Lk 1:5-6

5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.

6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

This meant they had God given Faith in Jesus Christ, the coming seed of the Woman and seed of Abraham Gal 3:16. It means the Law had been their school master till Faith came, which was Christ Gal 3:23-24

23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

That was the purpose of the Law, to keep the Remnant of the Election of Grace in National Israel in expectation of the Messiah, the Seed of the Woman and of Abraham. Now notice Zacharias words here Lk 1:67-79

67 And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying,

68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,

69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;

70 As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:

71 That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us;

72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;

73 The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,

74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,

75 In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.

76 And thou, child, shalt be called the prophet of the Highest: for thou shalt go before the face of the Lord to prepare his ways;

77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,

Note, This shows that the Salvation the True Jews looked forward to was not national, but spiritual and to do with forgiveness of sins !

78 Through the tender mercy of our God; whereby the dayspring from on high hath visited us,

79 To give light to them that sit in darkness and in the shadow of death, to guide our feet into the way of peace.

Christ's birth, life and death under the Law is how believers / Israel keeps the law or the commandments of God, in that He was for them the end of the Law. God's Law would not have its ultimate magnification and honor until Christ would come, and for God's People Israel be made under the Law Gal 4:4-5, and all who are of the Faith of Jesus Christ, keep the Commandments of God, in that He came into the World to obey God's Holy Commandments for them, in their behalf, and to die its accursed death in their stead, and so we have Rom 10:4

4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Rev 14:12

12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

They that Keep the Commandments of God and the Faith of Jesus Christ is Israel, are the True Jews !

Its the Israel to whom all the Salvation promises pertain Isa 45:17,25

17 But Israel shall be saved in the Lord[Christ] with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

25 In the Lord[Christ] shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory.

All those of the Faith of Jesus Christ, jew or gentile, they are Abraham's Circumcised Seed and they keep the Law of God through the Faith of Christ !

 

[Agape]

The Church and Israel are not the same.

Yes it is. Thats what I have been proving and giving evidence of with scripture which you have evaded. Like post 264. Do you understand the points I made about God's Chosen Habititation ? Care to discuss those points with me ?

1) Matthew 16:18 "And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it."

This does not say:
"I will add to my church Israel"
"I will create a second church"
"I have built my church"

but
I will build my church, οἰκοδομήσω, future indicative active

2) Go here http://biblesuite.com/greek/strongs_1577.htm and see Acts 7:38. ekklésia is used in relation to Israel, in the sense of a congregation called out of Egypt.

Abraham was a saint of God not a member of the body of Christ. If you can find just one occurrence where ekklésia is used to speak of Israel as a part of "the body of Christ", please share.

 

[savedbygrace57]

That the Church is Israel is seen when we consider God's Words here to Israel His Glory Isa 43:7,21;46:13

7 Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him.

21 This people have I formed for myself; they shall shew forth my praise.

13 I bring near my righteousness; it shall not be far off, and my salvation shall not tarry: and I will place salvation in Zion for Israel my glory.

Now lets compare Isa 43:21 with 1 Pet 2:9

9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

Now what do they have in common ? Correct shewing forth God's Praises ! Now that this is speaking of the Church and its Salvation is seen here Eph 1:3-6

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

"To the praise of the Glory of His Grace " For this praise is the same as that spoken of in 1 Pet 2:9; Isa 43:7,21,For the Church is Israel His Glory Eph 1:12,14

12 That we[The Church] should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

Now how can the Glory He receives from the Salvation of His Church, a people Created in Christ Jesus Eph 2:10

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Now how are these Created any different than the Created in Isa 43:7

Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him.

How can the Glory He receives from the Salvation of the Church, His Chosen in Christ Eph 1:4 be any different or subordinate from His Glory in the Salvation of Israel Isa 46:13

13 I bring near my righteousness; it shall not be far off, and my salvation shall not tarry: and I will place salvation in Zion for Israel my glory.

Eph 3:21

21 Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.



They are the same !

 

[savedbygrace57]

agape

Abraham was a saint of God not a member of the body of Christ

Too bad you have no scripture to base that statement on.

The Church, the Body of Christ, are the Children of Abraham Gal 3:29

29 And if ye be Christ's,[Body] then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise !

Now how can Believers in Christ, His Church be Abraham's Seed and Abraham not be part of the Same Body as His Children ?

 

[Carolyn]

The land was promised to Abraham. Borders were defined for the children of Jacob/Israel. Those borders have never been completely fulfilled. This promise will still be fulfilled, perhaps when Christ returns.
A second promise in Romans was that all Israel will be saved. This may only be a surviving remnant, but at some point all of the nation of Israel will be saved. Let me say here, that we seem to be of the mind set that we are the original believers and that the Jews were grafted in, not us. But the fact is that if we become haughty about all of this, we gentiles are in danger of falling away while the Jews are once again grafted into the plant theý came from. Rom 11:20-26. There will be a cut off date when the fullness of the Gentiles will have come in or will have been saved. Then the blindness shall be taken from the natiòn of Israel and all Israel will be saved. Yes, we will all be part of God's family as believers. God's mystery was about making us equal to the Jews in our adoption. It was not about them becoming equal to us.
I keep hearing that the Jews are dispised by God because they rejected Christ. Jesus died for the whole world. That in particular was for the Jews and just happens to also include us. For God so loved the world. There is something terribly wrong if we can't perceive how much God loves the Jews and the natiòn of Israel. Jesus Himself being Jewish shòuld tell us that they are His chosen people. The fact that God so loves such headstrong people who wòuld turn fròm Him time and again only reinforcès the façt that He can love me.

 

[Agape]

agape



Too bad you have no scripture to base that statement on.

The Church, the Body of Christ, are the Children of Abraham Gal 3:29

29 And if ye be Christ's,[Body] then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise !

Now how can Believers in Christ, His Church be Abraham's Seed and Abraham not be part of the Same Body as His Children ?

You can't possibly look for a bible verse to contradict the Lord's words just because you believe you can't afford to be wrong.

Galatians 3:29 says that we are Abraham's heirs! What does that mean?
Believers in Christ are counted righteous by faith in the same way that Abraham was. Here is the orginal text http://biblos.com/galatians/3-29.htm. This is not saying that the church is the child of Abraham. We know that the church is the bride of Christ, but it is the first time I've heard that she was Abraham's daughter!

1 Corinthians 10:32
Give no offense, either to the Jews or to the Greeks or to the church of God.

There are three distinct groups: Jews, Greeks and the church
It does not say Jews and Greeks but Jews, Greeks and the Church.

Israel and the Church does not mean the same thing, and I am not going to insist. If you are comfortable believing that Christ promised to build a church (Matthew 16:18) to actually talk about Israel that had long existed, I am not!

 

[savedbygrace57]

agape

You can't possibly look for a bible verse to contradict the Lord's words just
because you believe you can't afford to be wrong.

As stated earlier :

Too bad you have no scripture to base that statement on.

The Church, the Body of Christ, are the Children of Abraham Gal 3:29

29 And if ye be Christ's,[Body] then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise !

Now how can Believers in Christ, His Church be Abraham's Seed and Abraham not be part of the Same Body as His Children ?