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A Saviour unto Israel ?

The Church and the Temple the same thing !


That the Church Christ shall build Matt 16:18 and the Temple that God shall build in the latter days according to ancient prophecy are the same, is True when we consider this portion of scripture Zech 6:9-13

9 And the word of the Lord came unto me, saying,

10 Take of them of the captivity, even of Heldai, of Tobijah, and of Jedaiah, which are come from Babylon, and come thou the same day, and go into the house of Josiah the son of Zephaniah;

11 Then take silver and gold, and make crowns, and set them upon the head of Joshua the son of Josedech, the high priest;

12 And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh the Lord of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The Branch; and he shall grow up out of his place, and he shall build the temple of the Lord:

13 Even he shall build the temple of the Lord; and he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.

Lets begin with verse 9, for this is a typification of the Work of the Man Christ, who is the Branch as Per Jer 33:15

15 In those days, and at that time, will I cause the Branch of righteousness to grow up unto David; and he shall execute judgment and righteousness in the land.

Now this coming Branch will also be a Priest and King[Rule] upon His Throne which again is descriptive of Christ and as such He shall build the Temple of God as per fulfilled here Eph 2:20-22

20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ[The Branch] himself being the chief corner stone;

21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

Now understand that Eph 2:20-22 follows the exaltation of Christ to His Throne from Eph 1:20-23.

The same Temple is True here 1 Pet 2:4-5

To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,

5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

A Spiritual House here is another calling or designation for the Temple were the priesthood resides !

All those who are being begotten again by the Resurrection of Jesus Christ from the Dead as Per 1 Pet 1:3 these are become the Living stones that He [ Christ the Branch ruling on His Throne] uses to build the Temple of God, while upon His Meditorial Throne as Priest and King !
 
savedbygrace57 said:
agape



As stated earlier :

Too bad you have no scripture to base that statement on.

The Church, the Body of Christ, are the Children of Abraham Gal 3:29

29 And if ye be Christ's,[Body] then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise !

Now how can Believers in Christ, His Church be Abraham's Seed and Abraham not be part of the Same Body as His Children ?
Click to expand...

Thou hath not answered my questions.

Soooo :wave
God bless!
 
Abraham's Seed as Heirs !

Gal 3:29

And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed [Israel], and heirs according to the promise.

Lets get it straight, whenever the terminology Abraham's Seed or its variation is used in scripture, its Israel ! No exceptions ! Isa 41:8

But thou, Israel, art my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham my friend.

Abraham's Seed that were heirs of promise like here Heb 11:8-9

8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:

and as Per Gal 3:29 they were not his physical seed [Israel], no, not his physical and natural descendants, but his descendants only that were born to him in the manner of and typified by the birth of his natural son Isaac, for thats why Paul wrote to both believing Jews and Gentiles, this Gal 4:28

28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise[Israel]. Cp Gal 3:29

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Heirs to the same Promise as Heb 11:8-9 !

Abraham was given a seed by God that was analogous unto Isaac's supernatural birth, which typified the New Birth of the Spirit [Gal 4:29] and so they become Children of Faith as their Father Abraham Gal 3:7

Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

That is they were promised Children to Abraham, so they must follow in His footsteps of Faith Rom 4:12

And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.

And so they become Children of faith and of Abraham as Isaac did, by God's Word of Promise and Power, and not by human freewill or effort. And this is God's Israel ! Which is also the Church, they which belong to Christ Gal 3:29

29 And if ye be Christ's[His Body the Church], then are ye Abraham's seed[Israel], and heirs according to the promise.
 
Confidence in the flesh !

Those who believe in an special people Israel, the physical descendent's of Abraham, they are being guilty of having confidence in the flesh, which means their trust lies within being a mere physical jew or descendant of Abraham, their physical circumcision,just what an converted to God Paul calls confidence in the flesh Phil 3:3-8

3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.

Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:

5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;

6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.

7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.

8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,

And here its boasting in the flesh 2 Cor 11:18

18 Seeing that many glory after the flesh, I will glory also.

To have confidence in the flesh means that if one bases favor with God, salvation of themselves or others, on jewish ethnicity, circumcision, learning, ancestry things like what Paul points out in Phil 3:5

5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;

An Hebrew of Hebrew points to pure jewish ancestry, probably means as far as records were concerned, there were no mix marriages in Paul's family tree and certainly that would give him an advantage over other jews who had commingled with the Samaritans See Jn 4 !

These who believe this way do as Jeremiah writes of here Jer 17:5

Thus saith the Lord; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the Lord.

They trust in their physical relationship with the man Abraham Matt 3:9
 
The Mystery of the Church is it is Israel !


Rom 11:25,26

For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Jacob here is being Identified as the calling of the Gentiles in Vs 25.

The Mystery of the Church is also the Mystery of Israel. That God would through Christ save Gentiles in the latter times was not something completely unknown by the Prophets, for Isa 42:6

6 I the Lord have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;

Isa 45:22

22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.

However, the Mystery was that the Gentile Salvation, which did appear distinct from Israel's Salvation, for instance we read Isa 49:5-7

5 And now, saith the Lord that formed me from the womb to be his servant, to bring Jacob again to him, Though Israel be not gathered, yet shall I be glorious in the eyes of the Lord, and my God shall be my strength.

6 And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.

7 Thus saith the Lord, the Redeemer of Israel, and his Holy One, to him whom man despiseth, to him whom the nation abhorreth, to a servant of rulers, Kings shall see and arise, princes also shall worship, because of the Lord that is faithful, and the Holy One of Israel, and he shall choose thee.

And Lk 2:30-32

30 For mine eyes have seen thy salvation,

31 Which thou hast prepared before the face of all people;

32 A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel.

but all the time that Gentile Salvation was actually one with that of Israel.That is they were part of Israel to be saved also Rom 11:26, that was the Mystery, hence the Gentile Salvation was Christ [The Promise Seed of Abraham] in you the Hope of Glory Col 1:27 and that is the Glory of Isa 45:25

25 In the Lord shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory.

That Glory is the same as this one for the Gentiles Col 1:27

27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
 
Who exactly are God's People ? Those He foreknew!

Who exactly are God's People ? Many today have been deceived by satan as to who are God's People, even His Own Elect or Chosen. If you were to ask the majority of deceived religion who God's People are, they would reply, the jews as in ethnic jews , the physical descendants of Abraham, however they are all so wrong. No, God's People, His very own People of Choice, are all those He foreknew Rom 11:1-2

I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,

This verse should enlighten us that the nation of Israel in and of itself was not God's People of Choice or why cast it away ? That would contradict the point of the verse. Instead it is clear in Vs 2 that God's own People are those He foreknew, not the physical descendants of Abraham, even though some of Abraham's physical seed were amongst those He foreknew.

When scripture declares that Jesus shall save His People from their sins [a promise] Matt 1:21, it does not mean the physical descendants of Abraham [ They are not the Children of God Rom 9:8], BUT those whom He as God Man foreknew !

Yes, since Jesus is God incarnate, God with us, then His People would be the same as indicated in Rom 11:2

God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,

Now understand this, this foreknown People are the same ones Paul mentions here Rom 8:28-29

28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Its the same exact greek word. So Rom 8:29 gives more understanding as to who the ones Gd foreknew are [His People], and they are all those He did predestinate to be conformed to the Image of His Son who are also these Eph 1:4-5

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,


So in essence and in Truth, God's People are all whom He chose in Christ and predestinated before time began, to be conformed to the Image of His Son, jew or gentile !
 
savedbygrace57 said:
Jesus christ is only a Saviour to Israel, the chosen of God, His body..
Click to expand...

If by this you mean only "spiritual Israel" the Church, and that God has no future for literal Israel, then you are mistaken. Read how Christ was first announced to the world in Luke 1. A brief sample:

"Blessed be the Lord God of Israel,
For He has visited us and accomplished redemption for His people,
And has raised up a horn of salvation for us
In the house of David His servant—
As He spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets from of old—
Salvation from our enemies,
And from the hand of all who hate us;
To show mercy toward our fathers,
And to remember His holy covenant,
The oath which He swore to Abraham our father,
To grant us that we, being rescued from the hand of our enemies,
Might serve Him without fear,
In holiness and righteousness before Him all our days." (Luke 1:68-75)

There are two major and distinct Christian views on eschatalogical considerations for the nation of Israel, namely the Reformed/Calvinistic view (called Covenant Theology) and the Dispensational view. Those of the Reformed view spiritualize all Old Testament prophecies with future references to Israel and interpret them to refer to only the Church and they do not believe in a literal thousand year reign as mentioned in Revelation (a view called amillenialism). The Dispensational view takes the OT prophecies literally (as they should be) and sees a future literal fulfillment for Israel of all the things promised them which will culminate in Jesus sitting on the earthly throne of David during the millenium. Even Charles Spurgeon, a Calvinist and Reformed pastor, had the good sense to believe in Christ's literal earthly reign in the millenium which involves keeping God's promises to the nation of Israel.

I would describe my current position as in alignment with the "Progressive Dispensational" view (a modified Dispensational view) and I do take the promises in the OT to the nation of Israel literally, and I believe Romans 9-11 also makes it clear that God has not forgotten His specific promises to Israel. We cannot replace their specific blessing (promised by God, who can never lie) with a spiritualized one that only includes the Church.

God Bless,
~Josh
 
Who exactly are God's People ? Those He foreknew!2

So when Jesus proclaims to those in Matt 7:23

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

He is simply saying that they,irregardless of their sincere religious activities and lifestyles and deeds in His Name, that He never knew them to be amongst those that were foreknown and predestinated to be conformed to His Image Rom 8:29, nor did He know them to be of the foreknown of God's People Rom 11:2, He never knew them to of that number, they were not foreknown before hand. Thats what foreknow means, to know beforehand, Two Greek words:

pro = before

ginōskō= to learn to know, come to know, get a knowledge of perceive, feel


So Jesus never knew them that way . Now understand, this does not mean that Jesus did not know them in His Omniscience, but that He never knew them intimately as those Chosen in Him by the Father Eph 1:3-4 or as His Brethren that were predestinated to be conformed to His Image that He may be the Firstborn of many Brethren Rom 8:29


29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Heb 2:17

17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

The Brethren here are the same as those in Rom 8:29, and thats who God's People are and has always been world without end !
 
cyber

If by this you mean only "spiritual Israel" the Church, and that God has no
future for literal Israel, then you are mistaken.
Click to expand...

No I am not mistaken, you are. Literial israel is not the Children of God, nor His Chosen people. You need to read my posts throughout this thread, I have went over many things you are bringing up.
 
Who exactly are God's People ? Those He foreknew! 3


This knowing or foreknowing involves God's Special Choice of a People as indicated here Amos 3:2

2 You only have I known of all the families of the earth: therefore I will punish you for all your iniquities.

Cop with Deut 7:6-7

6 For thou art an holy people unto the Lord thy God: the Lord thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

7 The Lord did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:

And here we observe that God's Choice of a People is governed by His Love for them, and so that should tell us who they are in Jn 3:16. So now we can see the link between God's Knowing / Foreknowing a People or Christ also since He is God, and will be speaking as such in Matt 7:23, We therefore see the connection between Him knowing a Person or People and Him Loving them Amos 3:2; Deut 7:6-7, hence God's Love, Choice nd Knowing.

So in essence, Jesus the God Man is telling those in Matt 7:23, I never loved you, I never chose you !
 
savedbygrace57 said:
5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.

This promise was not in regard to Abraham's physical seed, but a Spiritual Seed of Faith, a Seed that would be Faithful to God as He was blessed to be, Hence Paul writes to to both believing Jew's and Gentiles this Gal 3:7-9
Click to expand...

Hold it right there! While there are spiritual seed, yes, the promise of many nations are to physical seed. Yahweh promised descendants as the dust or sand of the sea (physical ones) as well as spiritual ones (stars of heaven). The promise of many nations was part of the birthright. Now tell us all here at this forum, which tribe of Israel had the birthright according to scripture, and which tribe did Yahshua come from? I agree there are spiritual promises but let's not overlook the physical ones as well.
 
tim-from-pa said:
Hold it right there! While there are spiritual seed, yes, the promise of many nations are to physical seed. Yahweh promised descendants as the dust or sand of the sea (physical ones) as well as spiritual ones (stars of heaven). The promise of many nations was part of the birthright. Now tell us all here at this forum, which tribe of Israel had the birthright according to scripture, and which tribe did Yahshua come from? I agree there are spiritual promises but let's not overlook the physical ones as well.
Click to expand...

Gen 17:1-8 is Abraham's Spiritual Seed being promised. Cp Gen 17:5 with Rom 4:17

I agree there are spiritual promises but let's not overlook the physical ones as
well.
Click to expand...

There are none to Abraham's Physical Seed, for they are not the Children of God Rom 9:8

8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

God does not make promises to to people of the flesh, only of Faith ! Rom 4:16

16Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

Sorry friend, you have confidence in the flesh !
 
Last edited by a moderator:
savedbygrace57 said:
Gen 17:1-8 is Abraham's Spiritual Seed being promised. Cp Gen 17:5 with Rom 4:17



There are none to Abraham's Physical Seed, for they are not the Children of God Rom 9:8

8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

God does not make promises to to people of the flesh, only of Faith ! Rom 4:16

16Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

Sorry friend, you have confidence in the flesh !
Click to expand...

So.... who has the birthright? You did not answer. The children of the birthright have the promise of many nations!
 
tim-from-pa said:
So.... who has the birthright? You did not answer. The children of the birthright have the promise of many nations!
Click to expand...

I don't understand your question who has the Birth Right. All who Belong to Christ are the Heirs of Promise Gal 3:29

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Do you understand Gen 17:1-8 is not referring to Abraham's physical descendants, but His descendants of Faith !

When God promised Abraham here Gen 17:2

2 And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly.

God is speaking of multiplying His Spiritual descendants among all Nations Gen 17:5

5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.

Had nothing to do with his Physical descendants, but some of them would be included amongst his spiritual descendants !

If you are speaking of a physical birthright, that does not apply here, this is a spiritual matter !
 
savedbygrace57 said:
I don't understand your question who has the Birth Right. All who Belong to Christ are the Heirs of Promise Gal 3:29

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Do you understand Gen 17:1-8 is not referring to Abraham's physical descendants, but His descendants of Faith !

When God promised Abraham here Gen 17:2

2 And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly.

God is speaking of multiplying His Spiritual descendants among all Nations Gen 17:5

5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.

Had nothing to do with his Physical descendants, but some of them would be included amongst his spiritual descendants !

If you are speaking of a physical birthright, that does not apply here, this is a spiritual matter !
Click to expand...

Well then, if you don't understand the concept of birthright, or who has it, then you are not really in a position to extrapolate on the meaning of many nations despite your commendable zeal to do so. The promise of many nations is not fulfilled in the church. On the contrary, the church is a little flock of called out ones to rule and reign with Christ. They are the firstfruits of more to be saved later.

In an Israel analogy, the church can be thought of as those of the tribes of Judah and Levi--- and only the regal and priestly ones at that. (Revelation 1:6) But there were more to the nation as Judah and Levi were not the tribes these promises went to.
 
tim

Well then, if you don't understand the concept of birthright, or who has it,
then you are not really in a position to extrapolate on the meaning of many
nations despite your commendable zeal to do so
Click to expand...

Ok fine !
 
Israel and Church the same by the Resurrection !

1 Cor 15:20-22

20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

22 For as in Adam all die [OT and NT], even so in Christ shall all[OT and NT] be made alive.

The Resurrection of the dead, that even the OT Saints looked forward to by Faith, as Per Job 19:25-26

25 For I know that my redeemer liveth[Christ], and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:

26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:

Job's Redeemer and Hope of Resurrection comes through the Man Christ as Per 1 Cor 15:21


21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

And Christ is the Head of the Body, the Church in His Resurrection Col 1:18

18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

So Job as well as all OT Believers are Members of His Body the Church, and their Future Resurrection is through Him as the Head of the Church !
 
The Church !

The word church in the greek signifies called out, for the church is called out or separated from the rest of mankind or the world, that world which lieth in wickedness 1 Jn 5:19

19 And we[The Church] know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.

They [The Church ] are the ones whom God by His Spirit separates from darkness Acts 26:18; Col 1:13, and especially its seen here 1 Pet 2:9

9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

Thats the church called [kaleō] out of [ek]

You put them together you have the word ekklesia which is the word church !

So the church can be called a chosen people, a royal priesthood, an Holy Nation, a peculiar people !

Now all these apply to Israel Ex 19:5,6.

So those called out of darkness into marvelous light constitutes the Church, and the called out here as indicated were typified under old covenant Israel Ex 19:6, in fact they were even called by the Spirit the church in the wilderness Acts 7:38

38 This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:

Now understand this, the church in the wilderness was the seed of Abraham, a separated people from the rest of the nations of the world, for Stephen even begins His sermon with Abraham being called out Acts 7:2-3

2 And he said, Men, brethren, and fathers, hearken; The God of glory appeared unto our father Abraham, when he was in Mesopotamia, before he dwelt in Charran,

3 And said unto him, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and come into the land which I shall shew thee.

And this is the beginning of the official outward formation of the church, the called out ones, and this call came to Abraham as an Gentile or as Paul says in Uncircumcision Rom 4:9-13

9 Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.

10 How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.

11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:

12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.

13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

So its the Seed of Abraham that is the Church, the called out ones, and all who are called by Christ that are Abraham's Seed Gal 3:29

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

So the church in the wilderness which was Abraham's Seed, is the Church in the New Covenant that is Abraham's Seed Gal 3:29, the big difference now being, the church under the Old Covenant of Abraham's seed was primarily comprised of Abraham's physical seed who had been given Faith in Christ as he had been given [Jn 8:56], whereas under the New Covenant, it consist more of Abraham's non jewish seed of the gentiles who have been given faith in Christ. Lets remember that Ishmael was also Abraham's physical seed, and he was circumcised because that pictured a deeper truth Gen 17:22-25

22 And he left off talking with him, and God went up from Abraham.

23 And Abraham took Ishmael his son, and all that were born in his house, and all that were bought with his money, every male among the men of Abraham's house; and circumcised the flesh of their foreskin in the selfsame day, as God had said unto him.

24 And Abraham was ninety years old and nine, when he was circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin.

25 And Ishmael his son was thirteen years old, when he was circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin.

The message is this, that Abraham would be given a spiritual seed called out of both jews and gentiles alike, and they are simply the called as here Rom 9:24

24 Even us, whom he hath called[Seed of Abraham], not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

Even though this called people are from out among jew and gentile, its still restricted to Abraham's Seed Gal 3:29.

That Abraham has this exclusive Seed or Offspring from amongst all nations, not just one [national israel] is clear from God's word here when He changed his name from Abram to Abraham Gen 17:5

5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.

So technically his Name Abraham should be more connected to him being a Father of many nations more so to just one !

It cannot be made any more plainer that God made Abraham the Father of a Seed that comprised a multitude of nations, which included national Israel, but not limited to. And Paul interprets that here Rom 4:16-18

16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.

18 Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.

and thats the whole Church, called out of darkness, into the Marvelous light of God's Kingdom of His Dear Son Col 1:13, who by the way is Abraham's Seed. Matt 8:11

And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.

Thats Abraham's Seed, the Church/called out ones, God's Israel from all nations !
 
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