What's new
By:
Filters
Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

A Saviour unto Israel ?

OT Church and NT Church the Same !

We know [if we are spiritual] that the Church under the New Covenant is the same as the Church under the Old Covenant, by their connection to the Resurrection of Christ. You see, the Resurrection of the dead was the Hope of the Israel of God in OT times, we know this by Paul's Testimony Acts 24:14-15

14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

Acts 26:6,22-23

6 And now I stand and am judged for the hope of the promise made of God, unto our fathers:

22 Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come:

23 That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.

Paul's Ministry to Church / Gentiles fulfills Prophecy which Moses and the Prophets did say would come, and that Hope centered in the Resurrection of Christ, the Head of the Church !

This Hope of Israel, of the Resurrection of the dead Acts 24:15 is fulfilled partially now in the Resurrection of Christ, again who is the Head of the Church 1 Cor 15:21-22

21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

All the OT Saints that looked to and expected the Resurrection of the dead, as stated here by Paul Acts 24:15-16 is in Christ 1 Cor 15:21-22, whose Resurrection is that of a Head of His Body Col 1:18

18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead/His Resurrection; that in all things he might have the preeminence. CP

1 Cor 15:20

20 But now is Christ [The Head of the Church,His Body] risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

Who are the ones who slept ? Its all the Saints prior who fell asleep in the Hope of His Resurrection. Job was one of them Job 19:25-26

25 For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:

26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:[The Resurrection]

Those who have fallen asleep comprises all Saints since the beginning of the World, all who died in Faith Heb 11:13

These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

If they died in Faith, the Faith, that was once delivered to the Saints, they died in Hope of the Resurrection in Christ. David wrote Ps 17:15

As for me, I will behold thy face in righteousness: I shall be satisfied, when I awake, with thy likeness.

Which blessing comes through 1 Cor 15:21-22

20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ[Their Head] shall all[OT Saints and NT Saints] be made alive.
 
OT Church and NT Church the Same ! 2

Abraham, the Father of the Faithful [Israel of God] was taught by God the Resurrection of Christ from the dead, by his ordeal with his son Isaac, Hebrews indicates that Heb 11:17-19

17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,

18 Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:

19 Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.

Many may argue that Christ was not intended here in this testing of Abraham with Isaac, however with the writer stating that it was in figure, coupled with Paul's Testimony that his Faith followed that of his Fathers Acts 26:6-8

6 And now I stand and am judged for the hope of the promise made of God, unto our fathers:

7 Unto which promise our twelve tribes, instantly serving God day and night, hope to come. For which hope's sake, king Agrippa, I am accused of the Jews.

8 Why should it be thought a thing incredible with you, that God should raise the dead?

Abraham would be one of the our Fathers in Vs 6 , for he is the Father of the Faithful whomever they are Rom 4:12

12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.


The Resurrection of the bodies of the OT Saints, as well as the NT Saints are risen from the dead because of their union with and being members of Christ 1 Cor 6:15

15 Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid.

And remember , the Resurrection of the Dead depends on the Resurrection of Christ 1 Cor 15:12-13

12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?

13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:

The fact that Job knew that he would rise and see the Lord in his Flesh Job 19:25-26

25 For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:

26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:

It was because his body had been bought with a price through his Redeemers blood.

Again Covenant Israel [True Believers] and the Church, the Body of Christ are the same because of the resurrection of the purchased members of Christ, for Paul writes to the Church at Corinth, that they should Glorify God in their bodies, they being bought with a price 1 Cor 6:19-20

19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

The Body, Soul and Spirit belong to the Lord, and so in the Last day He shall raise up His Church, His Saints, the whole Household of Faith since the beginning of the World, then should come to pass 1 Cor 15:53-57, which is actually a fulfillment to a Prophecy regarding Israel Hos 13:14, hence Israel and the Church are the same, no not national Israel, but the saved jews in national Israel, which also was Israel Rom 9:6

6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
 
All the OT Saints, the Seed of Abraham, did die in Hope to obtain a better Resurrection as Per Heb 11:35

35 Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:

And that better Resurrection is only to be found in the Man Christ Jesus 1 Cor 15:21

For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

The man Christ Jesus, the Mediator 1 Tim 2:5

5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

And His Resurrection is that as of a Head to His Body the Church. So there is no Resurrection of the Dead outside of His.

Remember the sister of Lazarus Jn 11:24-25

24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

And Jesus is the Head of the Church in His Resurrection ! Col 1:18

And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

He is the Firstborn from the dead for all whom shall take part in the Resurrection of the Just, and so they have to be members of His Church. They shall be raised in His Likeness , as here Rom 8:29

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Now that word image, its the greek word eikōn and means:
an image, figure, likeness,be like

Now, remember when David says , whom is an Old Testament Saint Ps 17:15

15 As for me, I will behold thy face in righteousness: I shall be satisfied, when I awake, with thy likeness.

That word also means image ! See Job 4:16

So Davids faith rested in being conformed unto the Image and Likeness of God's Son, the Firstborn of Many Brethren, and the Head of the Church. That nails it, that all whom had Hope of an better Resurrection must obtain to it through the resurrection of Christ the Head of the Body, His Church, whether OT Saint or NT Saint !
 
Rom 9:6

Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

National Israel, Abraham's Children of the flesh, in and of itself was not God's Chosen People Deut 7:6-7

6 For thou art an holy people unto the Lord thy God: the Lord thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

7 The Lord did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:


Only some individual's of it were, which God calls the foreknown, those God foreknew, A People which had been Chosen in Christ and by Grace, and had been Predestined unto the Adoption of Children Rom 11:2

2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,

God's Elect People Chosen in Christ before the foundation is Israel, So Paul says in the words of my text Rom 9:6

6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

All National Israel are not Israel Chosen in Christ, the foreknown to be conformed to the Image of Christ Rom 8:29

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Elect Israel are the Chosen in Christ regardless of race, Its an Israel based upon Grace, not race !

Now none of God's People [Foreknown Israel] could be cast away, for they are all Predetermined to be conformed to the Image of Christ Rom 8:29, Remember David said Ps 17:15

15 As for me, I will behold thy face in righteousness: I shall be satisfied, when I awake, with thy likeness.

This word Likeness also means:

form, image, likeness, representation, semblance

David as a Member of the Chosen foreknown Israel was speaking about the same thing as Rom 8:29, being conformed to God's Image, which is in Christ Jesus and is Christ Jesus 2 Cor 4:4

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
 
savedbygrace57 said:
acts 13:

Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:

This was not peter here, but paul, the apostle unto the gentiles, who makes this very important statement, and sheds much light upon for whom Jesus christ came to save as according to promise..

Another important scripture that lends to the truth of this is lk 1:


68Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people, [see matt 1 21]

69And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David; 70As he spake [or promised] by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:

This promise of redemption of His people, as the Lord God of Israel, hath been revealed and promised since the world began..

This takes us back to the first proclamation of the promised salvation or redemption to gen 3:

15And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel

This seed of the women would be Israel [christ and his people]..and the which, salvations first promise is to and for this seed Israel, the seed of the women..

This is some what typed out or signified in rev 12:


1And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

2And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered. [the birth of Jesus christ]

This women had also a seed as we see later in this chpt 12 of rev:

17And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. [ so christ and his members are the seed of the women gal 3 16]

So salvation and redemption from the conception of the world, had only a particular seed in view, which later became known as Israel..

But now, its important to understand, that the Israel paul is referring to in acts 13 23..is not israel according to the flesh..but Israel according to promise..

Lets show here how paul discerned another Israel other than national Israel rom 9:

Not as though the word [or promise] of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel [acts 13:23,] which are of Israel [nationally]:

You see, the promises of redemption and salvation as stated in lk 68-70, to the people of God, the God of Israel, the promise was not to national israel..but a spiritual remnant within that nation, and as we will find out, a spiritual remant among the nations of the world, which constituted Israel,[rom 11] the one paul preached in acts 13:

Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:

Now paul had the Israel of God [rom 9:6] in view when he made this statement in the above..

Now get this next point, for its tricky, but nevertheless its extremely important because of the symmerty and anology of scripture.

The difference between what paul preached here in acts 13 23 and what peter taught here in acts 5:

Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

The difference is this..for peter was correct in that Jesus was exalted to the right hand of God to give repentance to a certain chosen people Israel..but what peter did not know but what paul did know..is this:

That Israel was no longer viewed as a mere physical ethnic nation, but that israel was comprised of gentiles as well, who became israel..

Notice..eph 2:

12That at that time ye [gentiles] were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

19Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

They [gentiles] are now no more strangers and aliens, but fellowcitizens [of Israel Gods chosen people] and so now they too have the same right to be called Israel,

in fact, even more of a right than the non elect jews of that nation..because the israel of God was never non elect Jews, but elect jews like jacob over easu or Isaach over ishmael..children of promise..

So salvation and redemption has always been limited unto Israel as a people, but the mystery that was not clearly unveiled since the world began [gen 3 15]

eph 3:


3How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

4Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

5Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

6That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel: [lk 1 68-70]

In that Israel was made up of Gentiles too.. Yes thats the unveiling in more detail by paul of this mystery..[Israel of God was never a physical nation but a spiritual people rom 2]

but nevertheless, true to promise, salvation and redemption is and has always been limited to a chosen people [Israel]..not limited to a certain geogrpaphical location as national israel in the middle east or a certain ethical people [respect of persons], but the scope of this Israel of God is world wide..but nevertheless its only to the world of Gods Israel, all others, are blinded..

You know how paul says in rom 9 6

For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

So likewise, they are not all the world [for whom christ died] which are of the world [the inhabited earth]

Just like there was an Israel within israel that God had a respect and favor too, likewise there is a world within the world that God has a special regard too, and that world is the Israel of God, the spiritual seed of abraham..
Click to expand...
This interpretation is an absolutely fundamental misreading of Romans 9-11 inserting replacement theology so that the term Israel now refers to "spiritual Israel" which pertains to Jews and Gentiles in Christ. This is NOT his argument is Romans 9.

In Romans 3-4, Galatians 2-3, Ephesians 1-3, Paul goes into detail about how the Gentiles have been grafted in through Christ to OT Covenant promises so that they are fellow heirs and children of God. In Romans 9:6 some read this to be pertaining to this very issue and they will insert what they have learned from other passages to change the meaning of this text.. But notice, that is NOT where Paul's argument leads. Indeed he goes back to the election of Isaac and Jacob. Why were these particular men important to Israel's history? Perhaps because Jacob later became known as ISRAEL, and it was showing God's right that even though Ishmael and Isaac were Abraham's physical descendants, God had the right to choose one and not the other to bring a people from.

You need to understand that Romans 9-11 is a UNIT, and that in the front portion of Romans 11 Paul describes that God has not rejected (entirely) the people whom he has foreknown. Why.. or how? Did he go on to say.. "well that's because Gentiles as well as Jews now comprise what we know as 'Israel' so God's totally off the hook on this.." NO! He goes on to say that he HIMSELF is an Israelite of the tribe of Benjamin and that God has an elect Remnant of the people of Israel chosen by grace to fulfill his purposes.

There is indeed two vessels that have been made from the same lump of Israel, you indeed must understand that the Potter's right over the clay in Romans 9 is a direct allusion to Jeremiah 18:6 where God says you ISRAEL are the clay.. and I am the Potter. In that passage he doesn't mention that he is going to just do with them whatever he pleases, but rather that he will indeed respond to if they repent or if they relent of doing good. In Romans 9 God is fashioning from that same lump of Israel one vessel for honorable use and one vessel for dishonorable use. The vessel for dishonorable use is those of unbelieving Israel, that God is using their unbelief to bring the gospel to the Gentiles, and he has hardened them in their unbelief (Note that Israel is the ONLY group mentioned in the whole NT as having been hardened by God). The other elect remnant of Israel is being used for honorable use to bring the gospel message to the Gentiles, namely the apostles are of this group as they are ALL Jews by natural descent. The key point to notice is that all these vessels are being used for the purposes of furthering God's mercy to the whole world.

Your conclusion is further confused because in Acts 13 we see the distinct shift where the gospel is THEN preached to the Gentiles because the Israelites deemed themselves unworthy of eternal life.
 
Only a Remnant was God's Chosen !

Now even though National Israel in and of itself was not the Chosen of God, yet in her was housed for the most part the actual Chosen People of God, which was always a very small remnant Isa 1:9

Except the Lord of hosts had left unto us a very small remnant, we should have been as Sodom, and we should have been like unto Gomorrah.

That's the point of Rom 11:4

4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.

Now with the presence of the Remnant in National Israel, the Nation as a whole benefited and could be called corporately God's People or by Covenant, however that was a derivative of the actual Chosen People having National and Physical ties with that Nation, but the Gospel would be that which would separate the wheat from the tares, the precious from the vile, which is what John meant here Matt 3:9-12

9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down[or cut off See Jn 15:6], and cast into the fire.

11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.
 
Only a Remnant was God's Chosen !cont

That it was only a remnant of National Israel that was the Israel of Promise is shown by Paul's Illustration with Elijah Rom 11:3-4

3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.

4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.

God was only vested in a Remnant, those by His Power He reserved for Himself, to keep from Idolatry, BTW, God does that for all True Believers that belong also to the Israel of God/Promise !
 
δοῦλος Ἰησοῦ


Simply stating that does not make it so
Click to expand...

I have a whole Thread here proving my points !

I have demonstrated in detail where you have erred.
Click to expand...

You only think you have, what I have posted remains True !
 
Only a Remnant was God's Chosen !cont 3

Corporate Israel, that is Israel National comprised of merely Abraham's physical descendants, that is not the Israel that God made promises to, for they were flesh, God makes no Promises to the natural man in the flesh, The Israel God made promises to was an Spiritual Remnant within corporate Israel so Paul says Rom 9:6

6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

The Nation Israel was a Type, a picture of God's Chosen that were originally in Adam, the Father of all the Living !

The Nation of Israel was not God's People but only a remnant was, and that was God's Teaching to Elijah in his day Rom 11:3-4 !
 
Rom 9:6 and 11:7

Rom 9:6 and 11:7

6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

Rom 11:7

7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

These scriptures clearly point out the different Israels. In these verses we have a National Israel, and a Elect Israel which is of National Israel, Rom 11:7 confirms the same, National Israel was blinded, Elect Israel obtained that which he seeketh for, because sought by Faith.

Two Israel's here, The Election, and the rest ! The Election Israel sought Salvation and Righteousness in the Right Place, the Messiah, an example of such is here, which said of the Messiah Child Lk 2:25-32

25 And, behold, there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon; and the same man was just and devout, waiting[in Faith] for the consolation of Israel: and the Holy Ghost was upon him.

26 And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord's Christ.

27 And he came by the Spirit into the temple: and when the parents brought in the child Jesus, to do for him after the custom of the law,

28 Then took he him up in his arms, and blessed God, and said,

29 Lord, now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace, according to thy word:

30 For mine eyes have seen thy salvation,

31 Which thou hast prepared before the face of all people;

32 A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel.

Elect Israel, jews in National Israel at the time, understood [spiritually] the Nature of the Salvation of Israel, that it was Spiritual, and that it had to do with Holiness and Forgiveness of sins, and deliverance from not natural but spiritual enemies [the fear of death] Lk 1:68-79

68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,

69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;

70 As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:

71 That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us;

72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;

73 The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,

74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,

75 In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.

76 And thou, child, shalt be called the prophet of the Highest: for thou shalt go before the face of the Lord to prepare his ways;

77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,

78 Through the tender mercy of our God; whereby the dayspring from on high hath visited us,

79 To give light to them that sit in darkness and in the shadow of death, to guide our feet into the way of peace.

Now the other Israel, the Nation in General full of Abraham's physical descendants in the flesh, were blinded to this Spiritual Understanding of Righteousness and Salvation and sought it by the Works of the law !
 
savedbygrace57 said:
Only a Remnant was God's Chosen !cont 3

Corporate Israel, that is Israel National comprised of merely Abraham's physical descendants, that is not the Israel that God made promises to, for they were flesh, God makes no Promises to the natural man in the flesh, The Israel God made promises to was an Spiritual Remnant within corporate Israel so Paul says Rom 9:6

6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

The Nation Israel was a Type, a picture of God's Chosen that were originally in Adam, the Father of all the Living !

The Nation of Israel was not God's People but only a remnant was, and that was God's Teaching to Elijah in his day Rom 11:3-4 !
Click to expand...
Agreed. And i would go a little further and even say that most of the "Jews" of Israel are not descendents of Abraham physically either...they are Ashkenazi Jews mostly from Eastern Europe which are descendents of the Khazars a Gentile people which reached it's height of power in 700s AD.
 
Now God's Israel under the Old Covenant was mostly comprised of Abraham's Physical seed [who had been born again] and ever so often a gentile was grafted in like a Rahab and a Ruth, however now under the New Covenant, God's Israel is mostly comprised of Gentiles, whom with Abraham's physical seed being grafted in ever so often, however with either, God's Israel is not a mere physical or ethnic people, but always has been a spiritual People, Those who worship Him in Spirit and in Truth. Ps 51:6

Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward parts: and in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know wisdom.

Ps 73:1

Truly God is good to Israel, even to such as are of a clean heart. Or pure heart.

We should know by this, Israel in view is the regenerated, one with a New Heart !
 
Abraham's Heirship !

Rom 4:13

13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

Heb 11:8-9

8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:


Abraham's Heirship was not given to Him as the Father of His Physical Seed, National Israel, which was that People constituted a Nation at the Giving of the law Ex 20 Cp Rom 4:13, but to Him as the Father of the Faithful, to His Children that partake with him in the Righteousness of Faith [2 Pet 1:1], which Faith he had while yet being in uncircumcision Rom 4:11-13

11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:

12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.

13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

Now what Inheritance or heirship is meant here in Rom 4:13, the Heir of the World ? Its that Inheritance of the Everlasting Canaan Promised to Abraham and his seed according to the Righteousness of Faith, as seen here Gen 17:5-8

5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.

6 And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.

7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.

8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.

The word possession here means:


possession, property

a) land

b) possession by inheritance

Now Abraham first received this revealed Promise here Gen 12:1-4

Now the Lord had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:

2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:

3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

4 So Abram departed, as the Lord had spoken unto him; and Lot went with him: and Abram was seventy and five years old when he departed out of Haran.

This we know by Heb 11:8,16

8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

And it was Heavenly Vs 16

16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

And at that point in Abraham's Life Gen 12:1-4 he was uncircumcised, a Gentile !

So the Heirship is Established not according to his seed according to the Law, but that Seed of the Righteousness of Faith which he had while being uncircumcised !
 
The mistake of most religionists concerning Israel !


The mistake of most religionists regarding national Israel is that God at no time promised to save that whole nation which they believe. God's promise to that physical nation was only to save a remnant, this cannot be more clearer than Rom 9:27

27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:

Some other translations properly add the word only as the ESV:

27 And Isaiah cries out concerning Israel: “Though the number of the sons of Israel[a] be as the sand of the sea, only a remnant of them will be saved,

Only a remnant shall be saved regardless of how many else of them there shall be of that nation !

Now in light of that Truth, the cutting off of the nation as whole because of religious apostasy, which has been an issue with that nation since its formation, remember the golden calf incident ? Except for a small remnant , they were guilty !

This cutting off of them had been foretold of prophesied of Rom 11:8

8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear ) unto this day.

Also Isa 29:10

10 For the Lord hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes: the prophets and your rulers, the seers hath he covered.

Isa 6:9-10

9 And he said, Go, and tell this people[National Israel], Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not.

10 Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed.

Paul was mindful of this prophecy here Acts 28:24-28


24 And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not.

25 And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers,

26 Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive:

27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

28 Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.

National Israel doing this is described in Rom 10:2-3


2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.

3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

This is the result of what is prophesied in Isa 6:9-10. Yes their being ignorant of the Righteousness of God, and their seeking to establish their own Righteousness, their not submitting to God's Righteousness through and by Jesus Christ, that was God's will for them, for He had no intention or desire in converting them, which is summed up in both Isa 6:10 and Jn 12:39-40

39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,

40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

That word heal is the same word Peter uses of those Christ bare their sins and the result it effected 1 Peter 2:24

24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.


This Israel that God had promised to save as Per Isa 45:17

17 But Israel shall be saved in the Lord with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

Was not national Israel, or that would conflict with Rom 9:27, but that Israel was an Israel comprised of saving both jews and gentiles of the Election of Grace. Israel's Salvation Isa 45:17 would come through Gentile Salvation Acts 28:28

28 Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.

What Salvation of God is here being referred to ? Why this one Isa 45:17

17 But Israel shall be saved in the Lord with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.
 
God Purposed to harden National Israel !

Matt 13:13-15

10 And the disciples came and said to Him, “Why do You speak to them in parables?â€

11 He answered and said to them, “Because it has been given to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given.

12 For whoever has, to him more will be given, and he will have abundance; but whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him.

13 Therefore I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand. 14 And in them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled, which says:

‘Hearing you will hear and shall not understand,
And seeing you will see and not perceive;

15 For the hearts of this people have grown dull.
Their ears are hard of hearing,
And their eyes they have closed,
Lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears,
Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn,
So that I should[a] heal them.’

Notice again Jesus stating God's purpose in hardening and cutting off national Israel, for this passage looks back to Isa 6:9-10.

Yes in Christ's day on earth which commenced the New Covenant era and was terminating the Old Covenant era, and so God's word was being fulfilled in national Israel among the major majority of Abraham's physical seed.

Even the prophet David, by the same Spirit of Prophecy as Isaiah spoke of the same to the destruction of that nation Rom 11:9-10

9 And David says:


“Let their table become a snare and a trap,
A stumbling block and a recompense to them.
10 Let their eyes be darkened, so that they do not see,
And bow down their back always.â€[e]

What here is their table ? Its their religion, their beliefs about God, God turns it into a snare to them, so that it prevents them from submitting them unto God's only way of Salvation Rom 10:2-4

2 For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. 3 For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

Christ and His Gospel is a snare to them, a stumblingblock, for remember Paul's words concerning them the jews in regards to the Gospel of Christ 1 Cor 1:23

23 but we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumbling block and to the Greeks[a] foolishness,

And they were appointed to is nationally writes Peter 1 Pet 2:8

8 and


“A stone of stumbling
And a rock of offense.â€[a]

They stumble, being disobedient to the word, to which they also were appointed.

The ESV reads:

They stumble because they disobey the word, as they were destined to do.

And so God's words are fulfilled Matt 13:14 In them. Now David's words that Paul cites in Rom 11:9 are found here Ps 69:21-24 !
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top