A Saviour unto Israel ?

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son of I:

but in any case, Christ came to fulfill the O.T. prophecies to redeem Israel, and all those who enter into Christ are Israel saved!

Its not about entering into christ, one had to be chosen in christ before the world began to be of Israel..eph 1:

4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love

In Him is In His Son, which is Israel ..Lets look at that from scripture.. Here is the prophecy hos 11:

When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt.

This is applied to Jesus christ here Matt 2:15

And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.

So Gods Son is Israel as well as those chosen in Him before the world began..
 
savedbygrace57 said:
vet asked:

And what would our Lord Jesus say to those of flesh Israel that did believe on Him?

They would be of the Israel of God, children of promise..Israel finds its True Identity through Jesus christ who is Israel isa 49:

1Listen, O isles, unto me; and hearken, ye people, from far; The LORD hath called me from the womb; from the bowels of my mother hath he made mention of my name.

2And he hath made my mouth like a sharp sword; in the shadow of his hand hath he hid me, and made me a polished shaft; in his quiver hath he hid me;

3And said unto me, Thou art my servant, O Israel, in whom I will be glorified.


Yes, for the word Israel has always been about those who prevail with God. Jacob was given that title because he wrestled with the Angel of The Lord and prevailed, but also because it is a title for God's Birthright Promise to the seed of Israel, which has always involved Salvation through The Saviour, Jesus Christ. That Birthright is still manifested on this earth today, especially among the remnant of Israel called according to the election of grace (Rom.11:1-5). Believing Gentiles of course are included with that remnant, and both are to become one in Christ Jesus.

The Message continues there about the tribes of Jacob's seed being restored with Salvation also going to Gentiles...

Isa 49:6
6 And He said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be My servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be My salvation unto the end of the earth.
(KJV)
 
vet says:

Yes, for the word Israel has always been about those who prevail with God.

Jesus is Israel, do you believe that or not, I showed you scripture..
 
veteran said:
savedbygrace57 said:
vet :

Rom 9:7-13
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.


The children of the flesh, that is, those jews who are jews merely by birth naturally, they are not the children of God, God has no promises for such..

Jesus too makes a distinction, He admits by nature that jews were children of abraham, right here:

jn 8:

37I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.

But then He says this:

39They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.

You see that ? Jesus said, if ye were abrahams children [offspring] ye would do the works of abraham.

So right here Jesus does not see these jews as being connected with abraham and the promises..He is saying the same thing, though under different circumstances, as paul is in rom 9 : 6-8

And Jesus adds the deminsion that these jews he spake with, not only did not have God as their Father per Jn 8:

42Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

Jesus tells them who their Father really is:

Jn 8:

44Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do

Now, you tell me, what promises does God have for the devils children ? No matter what race they are, God does not promise the devils children nothing but hell..

Matt 23:

31Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.

32Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.

33Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?


And what would our Lord Jesus say to those of flesh Israel that did believe on Him? What Promises would the believing seed of Israel then continue in?

They'd continue in the original Promises first given to Israel. So all I'm trying to show is that what Paul taught in Romans 9 about spiritual seed is too often used to try and replace what God promised to believing Israel first. But when study in Romans 10 through 11 is continued, Paul reminds believing Gentiles of that point, and even warns Gentile believers to not get puffed up against even the seed of Israel that still... hasn't believed, for he says all Israel will be saved.

The problem in John 8, is that not all those who have historically claimed... to be flesh Israel, were actually of the flesh seed of Israel.


Esth 8:17
17 And in every province, and in every city, whithersoever the king's commandment and his decree came, the Jews had joy and gladness, a feast and a good day. And many of the people of the land became Jews; for the fear of the Jews fell upon them.
(KJV)

Rev 3:9
9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
(KJV)

Some have yet to understand how there were Canaanites that crept in among Israel (Joshua 9; Judges 2 & 3), and several later instances of non-Israelites that crept in and began calling theirselves Jews (like Esther 8:17). So our Lord was not simlply speaking of flesh Israelites that only refuse Him with the "synagogue of Satan" label; it applies to others that never were of Israel.

Being the seed of Abraham doesn't benefit me "in the flesh" anymore than it did Ishmael Verteran! LOL.
This is the ONLY TRUE SEED OF ABRAHAM... (you really need to know this it appears...)

Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ

Now you know that all those in Christ are the ONLY Seed of Abraham. Whether Jew or Greek, bond or free, male or female.

The simplicity in Christ! Astounding isn't it :)

Son of Israel
 
SOI says:

This is the ONLY TRUE SEED OF ABRAHAM... (you really need to know this it appears...)

Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ

This is correct, Jesus is the True Vine Israel, and all those elected in Him are the True children of Israel..
 
Jn 15:

1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.

Jesus here is intimating that He is the True Israel..for vine represents Israel in scripture. Now remember how that the Son out of egypt intimated Jesus as Israel i.e Hos 11:

1When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt.

Matt 2:

15And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.

Now there is more scripture confirmation that this son called out of egypt, which was christ typified, also is typified by a vine, lets look at ps 80:

8Thou hast brought a vine out of Egypt: thou hast cast out the heathen, and planted it.

This vine out of egypt, is Jesus the True Israel, the True vine of Jn 15: 1

And it serves to reason, all those chosen in Him before the foundation are the true Sons of Israel..
 
savedbygrace57 said:
son of I:

but in any case, Christ came to fulfill the O.T. prophecies to redeem Israel, and all those who enter into Christ are Israel saved!

Its not about entering into christ, one had to be chosen in christ before the world began to be of Israel..eph 1:

4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love

In Him is In His Son, which is Israel ..Lets look at that from scripture.. Here is the prophecy hos 11:

When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt.

This is applied to Jesus christ here Matt 2:15

And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.

So Gods Son is Israel as well as those chosen in Him before the world began..

It's not about entering into Christ? Did you really say that??

You have been doing pretty good, but what is your point here savedbygrace?
Are you countering my statement about "entering into Christ" for some reason?
Are you saying by being "Chosen" as opposed to "entering in" there is a distinction between God's Son and those "Chosen" concerning God's Promise to Israel??
Are you trying to make a distinction between those "chosen" and God's Son Israel?
I don't understand why you say "its not about entering into Christ"... lol
It's not??
That is news to me LOL

Was Christ/Israel not speaking to Israel in these verses, to "enter in"...??

(Mat 5:20) For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
(Mat 7:13) Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

Is Christ not the "Gate"?

(Heb 4:11) Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

This is where I am entered...

(Heb 10:19) Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
 
veteran said:
savedbygrace57 said:
vet asked:

And what would our Lord Jesus say to those of flesh Israel that did believe on Him?

They would be of the Israel of God, children of promise..Israel finds its True Identity through Jesus christ who is Israel isa 49:

1Listen, O isles, unto me; and hearken, ye people, from far; The LORD hath called me from the womb; from the bowels of my mother hath he made mention of my name.

2And he hath made my mouth like a sharp sword; in the shadow of his hand hath he hid me, and made me a polished shaft; in his quiver hath he hid me;

3And said unto me, Thou art my servant, O Israel, in whom I will be glorified.


Yes, for the word Israel has always been about those who prevail with God. Jacob was given that title because he wrestled with the Angel of The Lord and prevailed, but also because it is a title for God's Birthright Promise to the seed of Israel, which has always involved Salvation through The Saviour, Jesus Christ. That Birthright is still manifested on this earth today, especially among the remnant of Israel called according to the election of grace (Rom.11:1-5). Believing Gentiles of course are included with that remnant, and both are to become one in Christ Jesus.

The Message continues there about the tribes of Jacob's seed being restored with Salvation also going to Gentiles...

Isa 49:6
6 And He said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be My servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be My salvation unto the end of the earth.
(KJV)

Fulfilled...

(Joh 1:5) And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

(Joh 1:6) There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.

(Joh 1:7) The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.

(Joh 1:8) He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.

(Joh 1:9) That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

(Joh 1:10) He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

(Joh 1:11) He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

Just because fleshly Israel didn't comprehend the fulfillment of Isaiah 49 doesn't mean it isn't fulfilled lol.
 
soi says:

Excuse me Saved... Are you not understanding that all those who enter into Christ are His "Elect

Wrong, all those who were chosen in Him before the foundation are His elect..

What you mean enter into ? If you are taking about entering into by faith to become an elect thats heresy, is that what you mean ? If not I apologize and you can tell me what you mean by enter into..
 
savedbygrace57 said:
soi says:

Excuse me Saved... Are you not understanding that all those who enter into Christ are His "Elect

Wrong, all those who were chosen in Him before the foundation are His elect..

What you mean enter into ? If you are taking about entering into by faith to become an elect thats heresy, is that what you mean ? If not I apologize and you can tell me what you mean by enter into..

Um... I already gave those "enter into" scriptures earlier. It's what Jesus "means"...
I'm getting a bad feeling about you, sorry to say. Something isn't right here...
I thought you knew what you were talking about at first...

But now you appear are twisting words around to mean something no one else can follow, so just what is your point?

"if you are talking about entering into by faith to become an elect thats heresy, is that what you mean"...

wow! What kind of grinding up and rearranging words and meanings are you attempting to assert here?
I think I know what Glorydaz was dealing with... bye now!
 
savedbygrace57 said:
soi says:

Excuse me Saved... Are you not understanding that all those who enter into Christ are His "Elect

Wrong, all those who were chosen in Him before the foundation are His elect..

What you mean enter into ? If you are taking about entering into by faith to become an elect thats heresy, is that what you mean ? If not I apologize and you can tell me what you mean by enter into..

LOL There you go throwing that heresy word around again. :wave

You twist and distort the Word of God so bad you wouldn't know the truth if it came up and bit ya on the behind. Of course you have no idea what entering into Christ means. It's a foreign concept to you because it quite apparent you have never been born again. You're an "old man" trying to pretend like you're one of the elect. God calls all men every where to repent, and you just can't stand that. So the first words out of your mouth when you feel trapped by the Word of God is to yell heresy as though everyone will turn and look at the other guy. You only call attention to your lack of spiritual understanding.....You need to repent of your pride, and call on the name of the Lord. Then you, too, can become a new man.
 
Son of Israel said:
savedbygrace57 said:
soi says:

Um... I already gave those "enter into" scriptures earlier

Are you going to tell me again or not ?

Scroll back and read them if you like.

Hi Glorydaz, I understand what you meant.

:wave You'll need to get a copy of SBG"s personal Bible dictionary if you want to carry on a conversation. Just remember, whenever you read "all men everywhere" or "whole world" or "they" or "them"...that all means the elect and only the elect. Oh, and God hates all the others...He didn't die for them at all...only the elect. :screwloose If it weren't such a travesty to twist the Word, it might even be humorous. As it is, it's a blight on the Gospel message. :bigfrown
 
Son of Israel said:
savedbygrace57 said:
soi says:

Um... I already gave those "enter into" scriptures earlier

Are you going to tell me again or not ?

Scroll back and read them if you like.

Hi Glorydaz, I understand what you meant.

Thats ok, I will assume that you mean that one becomes elect by their Faith in Christ, which if you do, thats error..
 
glory says:

Just remember, whenever you read "all men everywhere" or "whole world" or "they" or "them"...that all means the elect and only the elect.

Thats right..

Oh, and God hates all the others...He didn't die for them at all...only the elect

Right again..
 
Name-calling is a violation of the TOS as is saying something just to get a rise out of people. Now that the worst is cleaned up, it stops here. :grumpy
 
savedbygrace57 said:
glory says:

Just remember, whenever you read "all men everywhere" or "whole world" or "they" or "them"...that all means the elect and only the elect.

Thats right..

[quote:avwgk3s0]Oh, and God hates all the others...He didn't die for them at all...only the elect

Right again..[/quote:avwgk3s0]
Wrong again..."God so loved the world"...and here we have people right and left choosing to come into the light and others choosing to stay in darkness. They choose to stay in darkness because they love the darkness...no one can see their sin, but, oops, it still shows through in spite of their best efforts to cover it up. :yes
John 3:16-21 said:
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
And here we see God deciding not to punish people when they turned from their evil ways.
It's too bad not every one does that, but it does prove that it's the sin God hates...not the sinner. :amen
Jonah 3:10 said:
And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.
 
Son of Israel said:
Being the seed of Abraham doesn't benefit me "in the flesh" anymore than it did Ishmael Verteran! LOL.
This is the ONLY TRUE SEED OF ABRAHAM... (you really need to know this it appears...)

Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ

Now you know that all those in Christ are the ONLY Seed of Abraham. Whether Jew or Greek, bond or free, male or female.

The simplicity in Christ! Astounding isn't it :)

Son of Israel


I think you might want to study those verses you quoted again, and get all of what Paul was saying there, not just the part you want to use...

Galatians 3:14-29
14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Here's Paul's main subject, The Promise. It's about 1) the blessing of Abraham, and 2) that it might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ, and 3) it is a Promise of The Spirit through Faith.

That's three objects Paul gave in that, so we're not supposed to leave any one of them out of Paul's Message.

15 Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto.
16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, 'And to seeds', as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

Paul is covering object 1) the blessing of Abraham, in that 16th verse. That Promise did not come through Ishmael, nor any of Abraham's other kin, like his brothers Nahor or Haran, but only through Isaac. And from Isaac through Jacob whom God named Israel. That's what Paul is talking about there, and also in Romans 9:7 when he said, "...but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called." In other words, Paul is not speaking of the Promise going to others outside Israel just yet, but gets to that part later on in the chapter. Christ was to be born through a specific flesh seed, that of Israel. That was part of the Promise to Abraham, that God would send The Saviour through His literal seed, out of Abraham's loins.

Paul is also including the "promises" God made through Abraham to Israel. If we believe on Christ Jesus by Faith, then those promises first given to Abraham that flowed down to Israel MUST still be in effect today. They simply won't be found among un-believing Israel, as long as they are cut-off through unbelief.

17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
(KJV)

The Old Covenant law, even though given 430 years after The Promise, cannot disannul The Promise by Faith. The Promise by Faith was always given first before the law.

18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

What is that "inheritance" Paul speaks of? It's God's Promise of Salvation through His Son Jesus Christ. It is not of the law, and never was. And notice God gave it to Abraham by Promise. That means God promises to give the Gift of Salvation, and to receive it one must believe. And it includes a specific inheritance which God declared through His servants the prophets.

19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

God's law was given because of Israel's trangressions. It included the Old Covenant religious dogma and ritual, animal sacrifices, etc. And when "the seed" would come, meaning Jesus of Nazareth The Christ, the Old Covenant was to be put away.

20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

God's law never was against The Promise of sending His Salvation through Jesus Christ. It's simply that the law could never accomplish eternal Life. The law is a different working altogether.

22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

Only ONE born in the flesh was without sin, our Lord Jesus Christ. This is WHY we ALL have been put under sin, so that we might be saved through The Promise first given to Abraham, which is by Faith on Jesus Christ The Saviour.

23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

I think those verses are pretty clear. We're not to be under the law since Christ came, but Paul says later in Galatians that is only IF... we are led by and walk by The Spirit, and not by our flesh.

27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
(KJV)

All Paul is saying there, is that all those of Faith on Jesus Christ, are the spiritual children of Abraham through The Promise, and we all become one in Christ Jesus. He is NOT saying that God's promises to Israel are no more, for to think that would mean throwing away the very things God included in the inheritance part of The Promise to Abraham! Inheriting the earth with the wicked subdued is one of the things in that inheritance when Christ returns.