A WRATHFUL GOD & THE ATONEMENT

[gordon777]

So the moral of the story is, the ones who are immediate to respond, how are they the ones who are quick to hear ?

I will go and let you think, ( or not think) about it.

 

[gordon777]

The way of Jesus Christ is to not have guile found in His mouth, (Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth: 1 Peter 2:22.) and those who are not afraid to speak out, are the very ones who seek to have men's persons in advantage. ( their wisdom is foolishness they use here in the threads, they are the disputers who are nowhere to be found as they have fulfilled God's word of taking the wise in their own craftiness,.)



Jude 1:8 Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.

Jude 1:16 These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage.




1 Corinthians 1:20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?


1 Corinthians 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

A new thread in theology just now, explains testimony of who has fear of God and who has not, by the speed they respond.

That is certainly not God’s standard but an excellent example of the fear of man.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

So the moral of the story is, the ones who are immediate to respond, how are they the ones who are quick to hear ?

I will go and let you think, ( or not think) about it.

Uh, quick to hear does not equal quick to write. Hearing is not writing. They aren’t at all the same. (Didn’t consider that, did you?)

 

[atpollard]

Those scriptures do not explain the fear of the Lord but show, instead, the results of having the fear of the Lord. I know you are trying to attack the rest of us writing posts although you write do many posts it is rather hypocritical.

I am glad that I was not the only one to see the IRONY in MANY LONG POSTS about the need to REMAIN SILENT as “fear of the Lord”.

(Does that mean, by his own yardstick, he has no “fear of the Lord” … but “itching ears”?)
He said it, not me.

 

[Elteqay]

God Almighty has many names in many languages. He doesn't have one "first name."

God Almighty has many names in many languages. He doesn't have one "first name."

YHVH appears in the Hebrew Older Covenant over 7 thousand times the short form Yah appears as a stand alone NAME over 45 times and the phrase HalleluYah is said the same all over the world in any language, so Yah is Elohiym's Name whether you believe it or not.....Flavius Josephus 1st century historian gives the vowels as long(e) short(a) long(u) short(a) and is spelled YAHUAH....

 

[Dorothy Mae]

YHVH appears in the Hebrew Older Covenant over 7 thousand times the short form Yah appears as a stand alone NAME over 45 times and the phrase HalleluYah is said the same all over the world in any language, so Yah is Elohiym's Name whether you believe it or not.....Flavius Josephus 1st century historian gives the vowels as long(e) short(a) long(u) short(a) and is spelled YAHUAH....

Doesn’t change the fact God Almighty is known by different names to different peoples over the millennia. What the Hebrews used in only one of many…..which Jesus refused to teach his followers.

 

[Elteqay]

Doesn’t change the fact God Almighty is known by different names to different peoples over the millennia. What the Hebrews used in only one of many…..which Jesus refused to teach his followers.

It seems as Apostle John disagrees with you, he said; Messiah Yahusha Ha' Masheiac said; John 17:25-26...O' Righteous Father, the World has not known thee, but I have known thee; and these know that thou has sent Me. I have made known thy NAME to them and I will make it known, that the love with which thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.(John 17:6, also)...Messiah didn't speak Greek to them but Hebrew and He didn't use lord.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

It seems as Apostle John disagrees with you, he said; Messiah Yahusha Ha' Masheiac said; John 17:25-26...O' Righteous Father, the World has not known thee, but I have known thee; and these know that thou has sent Me. I have made known thy NAME to them and I will make it known, that the love with which thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.(John 17:6, also)...Messiah didn't speak Greek to them but Hebrew and He didn't use lord.

Ah no, it’s you who disagree with me. I know it sounds a lot better to say the apostle John does.

Please notice he didn’t use YHWH. He spoke Aramaic to them. Now since there is NO COPY of John’s writing in Hebrew, you cannot say He spoke out YHWH, which ALL scholars agreed was unable to be pronounced at that time.

Second, making his name know doesn’t ever mean, “btw, God’s name is YHWH and so now that you know that one word, you know His name and Since I spoke it, I made His name known.” Just teach that one word and easy as pie, the command is fulfilled by pronouncing one word.

I know there’s a contingency who think they know what God spoke to Moses regarding the name “I am” and feel superior for using it, Jesus always called Him “Father” and literally taught his followers to do so.

Third, those who’ve never been with christians from other languages are more tempted to think God has one universal name to distinguish him from other gods (like Hermes and Zeus) but it isn’t so, Other language groups have different names but they are nevertheless Him. YHWH was simply what the Hebrews used. One language group but not the only one.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

I respectfully disagree. If he cared about what people thought of him, mocking would hurt. He did not have the fear of man and did not care what people thought of Him.

I'm sure our Lord wasn't offended by what people thought of him as a man.

True prophets of God do not care what people think of them personally.

And none but One is God.

They care what God thinks of them. I think you are thinking what the worst would be for you if you were in his place.

It's fine that your feelings wouldn't be hurt if your children spit in your face and beat you to death.

The price our Lord paid was the personal loss he experienced during the whole procedure and afterwards. There was to be, of course, gain, but the loss was real and he felt it deeply.

What personal loss are you referring to.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I'm sure our Lord wasn't offended by what people thought of him as a man.

He didn’t care what they thought of him at all. He cared about other matters.

And none but One is God.

What does this have to do with my statement that true prophets of God don’t really care what men think of them?

It's fine that your feelings wouldn't be hurt if your children spit in your face and beat you to death.

Jesus was crucified to death, not beaten. Jesus had no children. But as they were killing him, he was more concerned about God forgiving them than what they were doing to him.

What personal loss are you referring to.

Considering the answers above, you’re not in a frame of mind to receive this information. But you could think about the answer yourself.

 

[gordon777]

I am glad that I was not the only one to see the IRONY in MANY LONG POSTS about the need to REMAIN SILENT as “fear of the Lord”.

(Does that mean, by his own yardstick, he has no “fear of the Lord” … but “itching ears”?)
He said it, not me.

Fear of the Lord was taught always by the Lord God, and letting our words be few. ( the fool is known by their multitude of words.)

The thread ironically is about a wrathful God. It is th wrath of man ( many words, quick to speak, slow to hear, having no fear of the Lord.) that brings the wrath of God. ( no atonement)


Ecclesiastes 5:1 Keep thy foot when thou goest to the house of God, and be more ready to hear, than to give the sacrifice of fools: for they consider not that they do evil.
2 Be not rash with thy mouth, and let not thine heart be hasty to utter any thing before God: for God is in heaven, and thou upon earth: therefore let thy words be few.
3 For a dream cometh through the multitude of business; and a fool's voice is known by multitude of words.

Matthew 12:36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

James 1:19 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath:
20 For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.

 

[gordon777]

I am glad that I was not the only one to see the IRONY in MANY LONG POSTS about the need to REMAIN SILENT as “fear of the Lord”.

(Does that mean, by his own yardstick, he has no “fear of the Lord” … but “itching ears”?)
He said it, not me.

Now that mockers are here as predicted, causing strife, contention, debate, dispute, are they not the ones who have the itching ears, turning from the truth to fables ?

Fables are the contention, the strife, the debate, the perverse disputes of men, they are predicted, they are fulfilled, and they are what no fear of God is.

If you agree with the scriptures, to not have strife, and for all to be of the same mind and judgement, to consent to the wholesome words of Jesus Christ, you would not be a mocker, I consent to them.

Long posts of testimony may be for those of itching ears, and may be teachers with fables, but it cant be me, as nobody pays attention, including you, and definitely not Dorothy Mae.

Mockers cant be covered up from being what thy are by more mockery, only fools would agree to that method.



1 Corinthians 1:10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

1 Timothy 6:3 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,
5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.

 

[gordon777]

I am glad that I was not the only one to see the IRONY in MANY LONG POSTS about the need to REMAIN SILENT as “fear of the Lord”.

(Does that mean, by his own yardstick, he has no “fear of the Lord” … but “itching ears”?)
He said it, not me.

Which is better, long posts of scriptures, in a time when men do not endure sound doctrine, or posts shared together, of our own opinions ?

The way to not have faith is revealed on tis forum, all talking, all daily sharing knowledge that has no value to anyone else, as the life is in the blood of Jesus Christ, and death is in the words when we do not have that life in us, to give to anyone else.

Full proof of the ministry is in afflictions, the proud have no afflictions, no chastisement of God. No reason to stop their mouth as told below by Gods word.

Psalm 73:3 For I was envious at the foolish, when I saw the prosperity of the wicked.
4 For there are no bands in their death: but their strength is firm.
5 They are not in trouble as other men; neither are they plagued like other men.
6 Therefore pride compasseth them about as a chain; violence covereth them as a garment.
7 Their eyes stand out with fatness: they have more than heart could wish.
8 They are corrupt, and speak wickedly concerning oppression: they speak loftily.
9 They set their mouth against the heavens, and their tongue walketh through the earth.

2 Timothy 4:I1 charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.

 

[gordon777]

Charity edifies, knowledge puffs up.

What is learned by those who daily share that puffed up knowledge ?

Is non self seeking learned from them?

Kindness ?

Humility ?

Long suffering ?


1 Corinthians 8:1Now as touching things offered unto idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth.

1 Corinthians 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.
3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.
4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,



Also false signs and wonder are shared by the false teachers ( many false prophets predicted)

The wonders they do with all power and signs and lying wonders, is the deceiving knowledge that is used, which is not the charity of Jesus Christ at all. Nobody is fooled by it any more, or they do not have to be any longer, it is well and truly known and seen.




Matthew 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

2 Thessalonians 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

2 Thessalonians 2:10-13 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Revelation 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

 

[gordon777]

Apostle Paul cared about what others thought of him, to never give offence to others, to not be in the strife, questioning, debating, disputing, contending of this forums daily love.

We can see easily who is true, they did what the Apostle showed they did, read below and follow it, or follow the way of the false apostles, who do nothing but cause strife because of having no charity in them.

Acts 24:15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.
16 And herein do I exercise myself, to have always a conscience void to offence toward God, and toward men.

1 Corinthians 4:11 Even unto this present hour we both hunger, and thirst, and are naked, and are buffeted, and have no certain dwellingplace;
12 And labour, working with our own hands: being reviled, we bless; being persecuted, we suffer it:
13 Being defamed, we intreat: we are made as the filth of the world, and are the offscouring of all things unto this day.
14 I write not these things to shame you, but as my beloved sons I warn you.
15 For though ye have ten thousand instructers in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.
16 Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me.

1 Corinthians 10:32 Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:
33 Even as I please all men in all things, not seeking mine own profit, but the profit of many, that they may be saved.

2 Corinthians 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

 

[Elteqay]

Ah no, it’s you who disagree with me. I know it sounds a lot better to say the apostle John does.

Please notice he didn’t use YHWH. He spoke Aramaic to them. Now since there is NO COPY of John’s writing in Hebrew, you cannot say He spoke out YHWH, which ALL scholars agreed was unable to be pronounced at that time.

Second, making his name know doesn’t ever mean, “btw, God’s name is YHWH and so now that you know that one word, you know His name and Since I spoke it, I made His name known.” Just teach that one word and easy as pie, the command is fulfilled by pronouncing one word.

I know there’s a contingency who think they know what God spoke to Moses regarding the name “I am” and feel superior for using it, Jesus always called Him “Father” and literally taught his followers to do so.

Third, those who’ve never been with christians from other languages are more tempted to think God has one universal name to distinguish him from other gods (like Hermes and Zeus) but it isn’t so, Other language groups have different names but they are nevertheless Him. YHWH was simply what the Hebrews used. One language group but not the only one.

YHVH is Gods Name....but as with 95 % of christians they wear a Roman collar and see with the lins of Hellenist Greeks.

Messiah didn't speak Aramaic, He spoke Hebrew, and if Apostle Paul used Hebrew speaking

Ah no, it’s you who disagree with me. I know it sounds a lot better to say the apostle John does.

Please notice he didn’t use YHWH. He spoke Aramaic to them. Now since there is NO COPY of John’s writing in Hebrew, you cannot say He spoke out YHWH, which ALL scholars agreed was unable to be pronounced at that time.

Second, making his name know doesn’t ever mean, “btw, God’s name is YHWH and so now that you know that one word, you know His name and Since I spoke it, I made His name known.” Just teach that one word and easy as pie, the command is fulfilled by pronouncing one word.

I know there’s a contingency who think they know what God spoke to Moses regarding the name “I am” and feel superior for using it, Jesus always called Him “Father” and literally taught his followers to do so.

Third, those who’ve never been with christians from other languages are more tempted to think God has one universal name to distinguish him from other gods (like Hermes and Zeus) but it isn’t so, Other language groups have different names but they are nevertheless Him. YHWH was simply what the Hebrews used. One language group but not the only one.

As with 95% of christians (IMHO) wear the Roman doctrines as a collar and see with the lins of Greek hellenism. If Paul spoke Hebrew to the masses in Acts 21:40- 22:2... then most assuredly Messiah spoke Hebrew to His Disciples and to those He taught in Yahudah and in Yashar'el.

And NO, not all scholars agree they didn't know how to pronouce the True Name of Yahuah Elohyim. As I said Flavius Josephus who witnessed the burning of the Temple and its destruction knew the pronunciation of the YHVH.

As I also said the term HALLELUYAH which means Praise Yah is said HALLELUYAH no matter what language you speak and yes Yah is the Name

 

[Dorothy Mae]

YHVH is Gods Name....but as with 95 % of christians they wear a Roman collar and see with the lins of Hellenist Greeks.

Sigh!! I know His name in Korean. No Greek influence.

Messiah didn't speak Aramaic, He spoke Hebrew, and if Apostle Paul used Hebrew speaking

No NT written in Hebrew and he spoke Aramaic. It’s not in dispute.

As with 95% of christians (IMHO) wear the Roman doctrines as a collar and see with the lins of Greek hellenism. If Paul spoke Hebrew to the masses in Acts 21:40- 22:2... then most assuredly Messiah spoke Hebrew to His Disciples and to those He taught in Yahudah and in Yashar'el.

I see you have made up your mind.

And NO, not all scholars agree they didn't know how to pronouce the True Name of Yahuah Elohyim. As I said Flavius Josephus who witnessed the burning of the Temple and its destruction knew the pronunciation of the YHVH.

Did he leave a tape? The jews stopped speaking that word in the 6th century BC….hundreds of years before Jesus. Your information is faulty.

As I also said the term HALLELUYAH which means Praise Yah is said HALLELUYAH no matter what language you speak and yes Yah is the Name

We’re done. Yah, I’m moving on..

 

[journeymanisnothing]

He didn’t care what they thought of him at all. He cared about other matters.

What does this have to do with my statement that true prophets of God don’t really care what men think of them?

Every believer should care about how we present ourselves for this reason,

they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation. 1Pet.2:12

Dorothy Mae:

Jesus was crucified to death, not beaten.

Well, he died after the nails were beaten into him.

Dorothy Mae:
Jesus had no children.

God has many children. Even as elders in Christ we have children,

Rebuke not an elder, but intreat him as a father.....The elder women as mothers 1Tim.5:1-2

Dorothy Mae:
But as they were killing him, he was more concerned about God forgiving them than what they were doing to him.

Where our Lords death is concerned, many people seem to think of him as someone other than God.

Considering the answers above, you’re not in a frame of mind to receive this information. But you could think about the answer yourself.

My frame of mind is this,

they...hated both Me and My Father. Jn.15:24
Ye call me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for so I am. Jn.13:3

I'm not your master and you're not mine, or are any of the prophets. And people may have a legitimate reason for hating us, or any of the prophets, because we're imperfect. If your frame of mind is lumping our Savior in with us, don't bother.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Every believer should care about how we present ourselves for this reason,

Only about what God thinks of your presentation. Only Him. Otherwise other people control you.

they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation. 1Pet.2:12

That’s good works, not what you say, look like or how you present yourself.

Well, he died after the nails were beaten into him.

No, he hung for some hours. The nails never killed the victim.

God has many children. Even as elders in Christ we have children,

Well, Jesus didn’t refer to his disciples as his “children” which was your point.

Rebuke not an elder, but intreat him as a father.....The elder women as mothers 1Tim.5:1-2

Where’s “as your children” in there?

Where our Lords death is concerned, many people seem to think of him as someone other than God.

Why should we care?

My frame of mind is this,

they...hated both Me and My Father. Jn.15:24
Ye call me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for so I am. Jn.13:3

If he’s the Master, we are obeying him. If we don’t, He isn’t.

I'm not your master and you're not mine, or are any of the prophets. And people may have a legitimate reason for hating us, or any of the prophets, because we're imperfect. If your frame of mind is lumping our Savior in with us, don't bother.

I don’t recall a single verse saying the prophets were hated because they were imperfect.

Now you thought Jesus’ main suffering was being mocked etc. by other people. That is definitely lumping him with us. That comes straight from thinking what would hurt us the most.