Abandon Ship!

[Jethro Bodine]

On this forum, not many understand where I’m coming from either.

With a name like 'Former Christian' what do you expect? As bad as many of us think the church is, it's still understood that 'Christian' means you are trusting in the blood and body of Christ for the forgiveness of sins. When one says they are not a 'Christian' it is immediately understood that you do not believe in Jesus.

That I’m actually expressing the simplicity of the faith as it’s presented in the bible. That those caught up in the web of biblical interpretation and denominationalism think should be as complex as their own ideas of things.

As much as I hate it too, complex, Spirit-less, Biblical interpretation and denominationalism does not automatically equate to being a false Christian, or that Christianity is man made. IOW, doctrine does not determine who is true and who is not. Character does. This is why you are so terribly wrong to make judgments according to denomination and doctrine instead of by the standard Jesus and the Apostles said we discern spirits. You are as wrong as the people you condemn by measuring Christianity and the people in Christianity by denomination and doctrine. The very thing you condemn in the church is the very thing you yourself are doing.

It’s in that sense that I see Christianity as a man-made religion. Just like anything else created by man, much more complex than it really needs to be.

That doesn't make a person's faith false, or Christianity man made. Christians are entitled to their traditions. The problems come in when the traditions become the truth, and the real truth is lost. Even then it still doesn't categorically mean a person or a group of person's are fake. You are using the wrong standard of judgment. Denomination and doctrine is NOT how you ultimately discern spirits. And neither is Mosaic law keeping. The fruit of the Spirit--character--is how you discern spirits.

In the Old Testament, God gave his Law to Moses. And through Moses to a group of people chosen to be examples of that Law to the world. But by the time of Christ, they had turned it into a religion for the Jews alone. By the first century, the simple pattern of the Tabernacle had become a huge edifice that turned the tabernacle ritual as originally given into something very complex. They turned a way of living into what was in Jesus’ own words a Tradition of men. That Tradition continues in modern Judaism today.

Perhaps you can see how ludicrous it would be to decide not to call the historic life and religion Moses gave the Israelites 'Judaism' anymore because it has been misrepresented by so many Israelites for so many centuries.

 

[Former Christian]

Jethro Bodine

by Former Christian
On this forum, not many understand where I’m coming from either.

With a name like 'Former Christian' what do you expect? As bad as many of us think the church is, it's still understood that 'Christian' means you are trusting in the blood and body of Christ for the forgiveness of sins. When one says they are not a 'Christian' it is immediately understood that you do not believe in Jesus.

There isn’t really a category for someone like me on this forum. And at the time I signed up, I didn’t foresee the dilemma common to you and some others. I don’t blame you for thinking like you do. Since you’re not the only one to be confused.

But I do find myself wishing you were a bit more like the Jethro Bodine on the Beverly Hillbillies. Like you, that Jethro wasn’t stupid, though others sometimes thought he was. He was trained all his life to look at things in a simple and straightforward way. But at least he did make the effort to understand the thinking of people around him. Especially folks as different from him as his Beverly Hills neighbors. The whole family was like that. But I think only Jed had the wisdom to see it. And even he sometimes misunderstood what them Beverly Hills people were saying. Banker Drysdale and his secretary, by the end of the first season, began to understand and appreciate them. And so did I.

Shoot, if I ever meet up with a family like them, which is highly unlikely if I haven’t before now, they’re probably going to get tired of seeing me around so much. I don’t think they’ll wonder why, being such neighborly folks and all. Already being married, it wouldn’t be for any of the women folk. Ellie May sure was beautiful, And cousin Pearl cute as a bugs ear. Even Granny had a certain charm, and charms of potions to make up for what she lacked otherwise. And all three were good people inside, just like Jed and Jethro. Jethro said in one episode that Jed could quote just about any part of the bible. But I don’t know if that would make them Christian or not. I don’t remember if they ever attended a Church. But they sure acted more like Christians than some I’ve known.

If you wish, and if you care, I can try and explain it to you again.

FC

 

[Elijah674]

Jethro Bodine



There isn’t really a category for someone like me on this forum. And at the time I signed up, I didn’t foresee the dilemma common to you and some others. I don’t blame you for thinking like you do. Since you’re not the only one to be confused.

But I do find myself wishing you were a bit more like the Jethro Bodine on the Beverly Hillbillies. Like you, that Jethro wasn’t stupid, though others sometimes thought he was. He was trained all his life to look at things in a simple and straightforward way. But at least he did make the effort to understand the thinking of people around him. Especially folks as different from him as his Beverly Hills neighbors. The whole family was like that. But I think only Jed had the wisdom to see it. And even he sometimes misunderstood what them Beverly Hills people were saying. Banker Drysdale and his secretary, by the end of the first season, began to understand and appreciate them. And so did I.

Shoot, if I ever meet up with a family like them, which is highly unlikely if I haven’t before now, they’re probably going to get tired of seeing me around so much. I don’t think they’ll wonder why, being such neighborly folks and all. Already being married, it wouldn’t be for any of the women folk. Ellie May sure was beautiful, And cousin Pearl cute as a bugs ear. Even Granny had a certain charm, and charms of potions to make up for what she lacked otherwise. And all three were good people inside, just like Jed and Jethro. Jethro said in one episode that Jed could quote just about any part of the bible. But I don’t know if that would make them Christian or not. I don’t remember if they ever attended a Church. But they sure acted more like Christians than some I’ve known.

If you wish, and if you care, I can try and explain it to you again.

FC

What gets my conviction stired up is for the ones of Rev. 17:1-5 calling their denominations Christian. Sure there are Christians in these denominations, but there is no way to be honest & call rome + her daughters Christian.

Yet, when these ones do not know better, their folds are indeed Christian to them. Rev. 18:4 has not arrived for them yet, huh? Note James 4:17

--Elijah

 

[Former Christian]

Elijah674

What gets my conviction stired up is for the ones of Rev. 17:1-5 calling their denominations Christian. Sure there are Christians in these denominations, but there is no way to be honest & call rome + her daughters Christian

Revelations 17:1-5
1 ¶ And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:
2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.
3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
(KJV)

Let me see if I’m understanding you clearly. You’re saying that these verses are referring to the RCC, right? You’re saying that the RCC is Babylon, and that the RCC isn’t Christian, right?

FC

 

[Elijah674]

Elijah674



Revelations 17:1-5
1 ¶ And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:
2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.
3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
(KJV)

Let me see if I’m understanding you clearly. You’re saying that these verses are referring to the RCC, right? You’re saying that the RCC is Babylon, and that the RCC isn’t Christian, right?

FC

THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND [[ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH]].

There is NO WAY that 'i' could call these ex/Christians CHRISTIAN Folds today. And yes, I agree with Inspiration of what is daily documented & what has been false doctrine taught for truth for well past any 120 years to the pre/flood ones. Gen. 6:3's STRIVINGS + Noah's preaching with NO AVAIL.

And these ones of Rev. 17 have not changed for the better in any way, except they are returning back to mother!

And that is why we see the mandatory the WARNING of Rev. 18:4 for 'MY PEOPLE' if they will obey?

Rev. 18

[4] And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that [[ye be not partakers]] of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

Yet, remember, many of these ones know not yet that they are PARTAKERS of these abominal sins!

--Elijah

 

[Former Christian]

Elijah674

Now, if you please, answer my questions clearly, straightforwardly. Without equivocation. So there can be no doubt.

FC

 

[Elijah674]

Elijah674

Now, if you please, answer my questions clearly, straightforwardly. Without equivocation. So there can be no doubt.

FC

Boy, your [posting] surely is dense!
How much more CLEARLY COULD IT BE SAID???

--Elijah

 

[Former Christian]

Elijah676

Thank you for your "unambiguous" answer.

Live long and prosper.

FC

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Jethro Bodine



There isn’t really a category for someone like me on this forum. And at the time I signed up, I didn’t foresee the dilemma common to you and some others. I don’t blame you for thinking like you do. Since you’re not the only one to be confused.

But I do find myself wishing you were a bit more like the Jethro Bodine on the Beverly Hillbillies. Like you, that Jethro wasn’t stupid, though others sometimes thought he was. He was trained all his life to look at things in a simple and straightforward way. But at least he did make the effort to understand the thinking of people around him. Especially folks as different from him as his Beverly Hills neighbors. The whole family was like that. But I think only Jed had the wisdom to see it. And even he sometimes misunderstood what them Beverly Hills people were saying. Banker Drysdale and his secretary, by the end of the first season, began to understand and appreciate them. And so did I.

Shoot, if I ever meet up with a family like them, which is highly unlikely if I haven’t before now, they’re probably going to get tired of seeing me around so much. I don’t think they’ll wonder why, being such neighborly folks and all. Already being married, it wouldn’t be for any of the women folk. Ellie May sure was beautiful, And cousin Pearl cute as a bugs ear. Even Granny had a certain charm, and charms of potions to make up for what she lacked otherwise. And all three were good people inside, just like Jed and Jethro. Jethro said in one episode that Jed could quote just about any part of the bible. But I don’t know if that would make them Christian or not. I don’t remember if they ever attended a Church. But they sure acted more like Christians than some I’ve known.

If you wish, and if you care, I can try and explain it to you again.

FC

How do you know I'm not like Jethro? The gospel is very simple. Faith in Christ is not about denominations, and how you worship, and the the doctrines you hold dear, nor is it about thinking correctly about the law and what must be obeyed and what is optional. It's about being a new creation that loves as God loves through the forgiveness of sins. That's what Christianity is. And people who believe and trust in the blood of Christ are Christians. No matter how many masquerade as those who believe but really don't, or mistakenly think one's doctrine and worship practices and traditions determine your status as 'Christians' (you are in that category), 'Christianity' and 'Christians' are still the correct identifiers for the people who genuinely belong to God.

I understand your argument very well.

 

[Elijah674]

How do you know I'm not like Jethro? The gospel is very simple. Faith in Christ is not about denominations, and how you worship, and the the doctrines you hold dear, nor is it about thinking correctly about the law and what must be obeyed and what is optional. It's about being a new creation that loves as God loves through the forgiveness of sins. That's what Christianity is. And people who believe and trust in the blood of Christ are Christians. No matter how many masquerade as those who believe but really don't, or mistakenly think one's doctrine and worship practices and traditions determine your status as 'Christians' (you are in that category), 'Christianity' and 'Christians' are still the correct identifiers for the people who genuinely belong to God.

I understand your argument very well.

James 2
[26] For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

So it requires one to be Born Again to be [REAL CHRISTIANS].

And doctrine matters none to God you post?? Surely that IS NOT WHAT THE GODHEAD [[REQUIRE!]]

They DOCUMENT that it is not possible to even BE BORN AGAIN WITHOUT OBEDIENCE!! Acts 5​

[32] And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom [[God hath given to them that obey him]].

And Matt. 4:4 has been trashed by your post!
Matt. 4
[4] But HE answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by [[every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God]].

And NO doctrine! 2 Tim. 3
[16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and [[is profitable for doctrine]], for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
[17] That [[the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works]].

And what 'bugs' me most, is that some on here, say foolish stuff as if it were Inspired fact! Rev. 22:18-19.
Yet, these ones surely had the Holy Spirit's New Birth to begin with.

--Elijah

PS:
And former Christian, you need to understand that because all of the Rev. 17:1-5's church fold's stink, that does not mean that there are no Christians in them. See John 10:16, & then ask yourself that if Christ had been in these 'folds', what need is there for Him to bring them out?

What needs to be said perhaps is that NO ONE CAN READ ANOTHERS MIND! Yet we can & must find false doctrinal truths for what they are! All are accountable to God alone, and when they surrender up the stubborn 'will' to Him in Obedience, it is then that they can be LED! Rom. 8:14. (IF THEY WILL BE)

 

[Jethro Bodine]

And doctrine matters none to God you post?? Surely that IS NOT WHAT THE GODHEAD [[REQUIRE!]]

I knew someone would misunderstand this, lol. I didn't say doctrine doesn't matter to God.

Correct doctrine never saved a single soul, and never will. But this is what so many people think 'believing' means; that you are saved because you believe correct things about the facts of the faith, or worship correctly, or belong to a denomination that believes correctly, etc. Trust in Christ's blood is what saves. Faith that turns you into one who loves like God loves, forgiving others and having mercy and compassion for them, thus fulfilling the law. Possessing correct doctrines does not fulfill the requirements of the law of Moses and show one to belong to God through faith in Christ.

 

[Elijah674]

Re: Abandon Ship!

Originally Posted by Elijah674​

And doctrine matters none to God you post?? Surely that IS NOT WHAT THE GODHEAD [[REQUIRE!]]

__________

Jethro comes back with..



I knew someone would misunderstand this, lol. I didn't say doctrine doesn't matter to God.

Correct doctrine never saved a single soul, and never will. But this is what so many people think 'believing' means; that you are saved because you believe correct things about the facts of the faith, or worship correctly, or belong to a denomination that believes correctly, etc. Trust in Christ's blood is what saves. Faith that turns you into one who loves like God loves, forgiving others and having mercy and compassion for them, thus fulfilling the law. Possessing correct doctrines does not fulfill the requirements of the law of Moses and show one to belong to God through faith in Christ.
___________

NONE will be saved who do not follow the Holy Spirits leading into all truth! How far that is, is for Him to convict. Yet, the Eph. 4:4-5 verse will be REQUIRED regardless of what you post up!

Eph. 4
[4] There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
[5] One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

And that does not mean one having faith, but one true fold! And they are identified in Rev. 12:17!

Rev. 17
[17] And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

And that is not the law of Moses!

--Elijah


​

 

[Jethro Bodine]

...I do find myself wishing you were a bit more like the Jethro Bodine on the Beverly Hillbillies.

I almost forgot to tell you...I can shoot flies off a wall at 100 yards just like Jed and Jethro:

http://youtu.be/JkbzYRuVtk4 (scroll up to 6:55, where Miss Hathaway and Mr. Drysdale are pulling up in her '62 Chrysler)

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Re: Abandon Ship!

Originally Posted by Elijah674​

And doctrine matters none to God you post?? Surely that IS NOT WHAT THE GODHEAD [[REQUIRE!]]

__________

Jethro comes back with..



I knew someone would misunderstand this, lol. I didn't say doctrine doesn't matter to God.

Correct doctrine never saved a single soul, and never will. But this is what so many people think 'believing' means; that you are saved because you believe correct things about the facts of the faith, or worship correctly, or belong to a denomination that believes correctly, etc. Trust in Christ's blood is what saves. Faith that turns you into one who loves like God loves, forgiving others and having mercy and compassion for them, thus fulfilling the law. Possessing correct doctrines does not fulfill the requirements of the law of Moses and show one to belong to God through faith in Christ.
___________

NONE will be saved who do not follow the Holy Spirits leading into all truth! How far that is, is for Him to convict. Yet, the Eph. 4:4-5 verse will be REQUIRED regardless of what you post up!

Eph. 4
[4] There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
[5] One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

And that does not mean one having faith, but one true fold! And they are identified in Rev. 12:17!

Rev. 17
[17] And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

And that is not the law of Moses!

--Elijah


​

You're like FC in that you don't come right out and say specifically why everyone who doesn't believe like you is wrong, either. But he is apparently like you in that it has to do with what the church thinks about the law of Moses. But, as I've been showing, the church, and Christianity, aren't as terribly wrong about it as some would have us believe.

 

[Elijah674]

You're like FC in that you don't come right out and say specifically why everyone who doesn't believe like you is wrong, either. But he is apparently like you in that it has to do with what the church thinks about the law of Moses.

????
secret rapture, immortal soul, eternal hell burning, OSAS, only believe, Peter the pope, sun worship, saved in sin, not from sin, No law, and on & on! ='s THE ABOMINATION OF THE EARTH as denominations! WAY WAY past Gen. 6:3 with the Holy Spirits STRIVING to get it right before the ARK Door Closed for these repeat of Eccl. 3:15 denominations. Matt.25:10

And believe like me??

Can you not read scripture?

--Elijah

 

[Jethro Bodine]

????
secret rapture, immortal soul, eternal hell burning, OSAS, only believe, Peter the pope, sun worship, saved in sin, not from sin, No law, and on & on! ='s THE ABOMINATION OF THE EARTH as denominations! WAY WAY past Gen. 6:3 with the Holy Spirits STRIVING to get it right before the ARK Door Closed for these repeat of Eccl. 3:15 denominations. Matt.25:10

And believe like me??

Can you not read scripture?

--Elijah

If you think the 'believing' that saves is believing correctly about the things you listed, you are deceived. You may be guilty of having this kind of 'believing' that so many in the church thinks gains them God's approval, but who remain oblivious to what really does solicit God's approval.

Believing correctly about various doctrines never saved a single soul, and never will. You have your confidence in the wrong place. If you think you've abandoned one sinking vessel just to find refuge on one that is sea worthy, I'd say to you, "think again".

 

[Elijah674]

If you think the 'believing' that saves is believing correctly about the things you listed, you are deceived. You may be guilty of having this kind of 'believing' that so many in the church thinks gains them God's approval, but who remain oblivious to what really does solicit God's approval.

Believing correctly about various doctrines never saved a single soul, and never will. You have your confidence in the wrong place. If you think you've abandoned one sinking vessel just to find refuge on one that is sea worthy, I'd say to you, "think again".

__________________


I agree with your assesment of your faithlessness.
[26] For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
James 2.

And before ANYTHING comes along! Acts 5:32's 'total 100% Submission' to Christ is REQUIRED to be Born Again!!

 

[Jethro Bodine]

__________________


I agree with your assesment of your faithlessness.
[26] For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
James 2.

Do you think for a moment the 'faith' that James is speaking of here is the correct believing about things like the rapture, and OSAS, etc?

And before ANYTHING comes along! Acts 5:32's 'total 100% Submission' to Christ is REQUIRED to be Born Again!!

And do you think for a moment that the submission to Christ that saves means accepting and believing correct doctrines about the rapture, OSAS, hell, proper church leadership, etc?


If that is where your confidence is you are in for a very, very big surprise on the Day of Wrath. My friend, I know time is shorter for you than for many of us here. You would do well to make sure you're prepared to leave this life. Correct doctrine about the things you listed is not the 'obedience' that will enable a man to stand in the judgment.

You need fruit, not mere doctrinal facts about the kingdom, to stand before Him unashamed and able to enter into that kingdom. This is where the Israelites went wrong. They thought possessing correct doctrine about God alone is what pleased God, when what God was looking for was the image of himself etched into the character of their lives. That is what we are to take confidence in, and shows us to have God's stamp of approval and acceptance on our lives. Don't be deceived!

39 You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them (having them, possessing them, knowing them) you have eternal life." (John 5:39 NIV)

 

[Elijah674]

Do you think for a moment the 'faith' that James is speaking of here is the correct believing about things like the rapture, and OSAS, etc?




And do you think for a moment that the submission to Christ that saves means accepting and believing correct doctrines about the rapture, OSAS, hell, proper church leadership, etc?


If that is where your confidence is you are in for a very, very big surprise on the Day of Wrath. My friend, I know time is shorter for you than for many of us here. You would do well to make sure you're prepared to leave this life. Correct doctrine about the things you listed is not the 'obedience' that will enable a man to stand in the judgment.

You need fruit, not mere doctrinal facts about the kingdom, to stand before Him unashamed and able to enter into that kingdom. This is where the Israelites went wrong. They thought possessing correct doctrine about God alone is what pleased God, when what God was looking for was the image of himself etched into the character of their lives. That is what we are to take confidence in, and shows us to have God's stamp of approval and acceptance on our lives. Don't be deceived!

39 You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them (having them, possessing them, knowing them) you have eternal life." (John 5:39 NIV)

??You do not READ well either!

 

[Jethro Bodine]

??You do not READ well either!

I don't know if English is your original language or not, but you do not write very well and it takes more than a little effort to figure out what you're trying to say. I'm not holding it against you, and I've been putting in that extra effort instead of just ignoring your posts, but it should be known that effective communication is a 2-way street. You can't expect people to respond appropriately if you have failed to make your point clear.

Effective communication means taking your responsibility in the communication process. Which includes monitoring the feedback of your audience (how they're responding, etc.) and making your communication clearer if necessary.

Now, if you want to continue the discussion, respond to my post as is fitting--both grammatically (as you're able), and spiritually in accordance with the fruit of the Spirit (kindly, gently, patiently, compassionately, etc.). For that is what being a Christian is all about. Christianity is not all about the accuracy of our beliefs about things like hellfire, church leadership, OSAS, etc. Those things will prove to be a foundation of sand for the house that must endure the coming judgment.