About money again

[jasonc]

I'm w/ WIP. I think wealth can also complicate things on a whole society wide level. Look at the US and other wealthy nations and how we/they have gone "post-Christian" as a whole, just as an individual might go "post-Christian" w/ lots of resources.

its never easy, gee temptations are there. if you are poor there are drugs, gangs an violence and will have to work hard to rear your kids from that stuff. its not impossible. Abraham, paul(paul was a roman citizen and wasn't poor those aren't for the poor) he was born or bought into that. in either case he had more rights then most in the church legally. that is why he wasn't crucified

 

[Christ_empowered]

"neither poverty nor riches"

 

[jasonc]

"neither poverty nor riches"

middle class and sustaining that is a type of rat race. been there and I am there. working so much just to have little.

 

[Christ_empowered]

Proverbs 30:8.

Its tough to be middle class these days. Tough to get there, tough to stay there, tough to get your kids there. Its the Middle Class slide, I think its called...changes in how the US does business since the 70s.

www.paulcraigroberts.org

 

[KevinK]

How much money does a Christian need?

I like to address this issue with a slightly different question, if that's acceptable. I ask "How little money can a Christian get by on?" I like to look at it this way- the more money you have, the less likely you will make it into Heaven. There's no discrete value per se. It's more a matter of giving yourself the best chance possible. If your salvation is important to you, this isn't something you would play around with any more than you have to. The consequences are too staggering.

As far as the camel through a needle, isn't there a theory that this the result of a simple mistranslation? Apparently the word for "camel" is very similar to the word for "rope", which makes the analogy a lot more sensical. And still very, very difficult.

 

[dianegcook]

there was NO narrow gate of jersusalem for camels. that has never been found.

http://www.learnthebible.org/the-eye-of-a-needle.html
http://www.biblicalhebrew.com/nt/camelneedle.htm[/QUOTE

there was NO narrow gate of jersusalem for camels. that has never been found.

http://www.learnthebible.org/the-eye-of-a-needle.html
http://www.biblicalhebrew.com/nt/camelneedle.htm

Hi Jason
I also have a study Bible, with commentaries, with a very good scholar.
Even scholars disagree, lol.
He states it is a small door fixed in a gate and opened after dark, to pass through the camel must be unloaded.
He must be unloaded, and hence the proverb, common in the East.
In Palestine the "camel" , in the Babylonian Talmud it is the elephant.

Blessings of obedience
Deut.28:1-14
Blessed shalt thou be in the city, and blessed shalt be in the field.
Blessed shall be the fruit of thy body, fruit of the ground, fruit of thy cattle, the increase of thy kind, and the flocks of thy sheep.
Blessed shall be thy basket and thy store.
Blessed shalt thou be when thou comest in, and blessed shalt thou be when thou goest out.
The Lord shall command the blessings upon thee in thy storehouses, and all that thou settest thine hand unto, and He shall bless thee in the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee.

The lesson, I think, do not trust in riches, but put your trust in God.

 

[Kenny_ms]

For those of you who think money corrupts and it does if you let it, I would suggest you not have a lot of it. I know I don't have a lot but it's no because I'm the least bit worried about it corrupting me. I can think of all kinds of good things to do if I had a lot of money.

As far as It being biblical that we absolutely can't be rich and make it to heaven, it is not. Yes there are warnings and for good reason and once again, if one is too weak to handle it, I'd agree, they should not set out to get rich or maybe even do well.

Let's continue reading the nest couple verses from that story in Matthew 19. NKJV

25 When His disciples heard it, they were greatly astonished, saying, “Who then can be saved?”
26 But Jesus looked at them and said to them, “With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

I see what you are saying but I still think the eye of the needle is most likely as Diane said. Prove beyond a doubt if it's worth your trouble that it is not and I'll listen. It wouldn't be worth my trouble to convince me.

Anyway, you say read on, but lets read back from those verses for a moment:

instructs the young man how to attain eternal life

16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. 18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, 19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

and how to be perfect

20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet? 21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. 22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.

This is how my bible software breaks it up and just what I was going to do anyway to make my point. You will notice the rich man didn't have to sell all he had and follow Jesus to achieve eternal life, but only to be perfect, at least that's what the Bible says.

I'm not saying this is any of you but I'm careful with this stuff because I know a man that goes on and on about how good he must be because he stays poor but when it comes down to it, and it's not just me that thinks that, I once heard another say he was "The laziest man in the world" lol. I couild probaly say I'm lazy at this point as I could make a lot of money or, it could just be that I'm tired at 60 and handicapped and just don't have the ambition anymore even though I am still capable of doing most anything, even something that includes labor. We all need to just be honest with ourselves, If we "really" think it will hurt our walk with God, don't do it, if we are just lazy, admit it and don't bother, if we don't have enough faith in our abilities, fine, I/we won't be the first to have that happen. Those and several other reasons, again, just be honest about it and if we are honest, and don't like what we hear...change it.

I always liked what was said in the movie "The Edge" when the odds were so much against them..."What one man can do, another man can do" so, go out and make a lot of money and if you are worried about corruption, give not just part but all of it to the poor and tell me that's not a good thing you do. Gotta admit, that's at least one fair way of looking at this.

 

[jasonc]

Hi Jason
I also have a study Bible, with commentaries, with a very good scholar.
Even scholars disagree, lol.
He states it is a small door fixed in a gate and opened after dark, to pass through the camel must be unloaded.
He must be unloaded, and hence the proverb, common in the East.
In Palestine the "camel" , in the Babylonian Talmud it is the elephant.

Blessings of obedience
Deut.28:1-14
Blessed shalt thou be in the city, and blessed shalt be in the field.
Blessed shall be the fruit of thy body, fruit of the ground, fruit of thy cattle, the increase of thy kind, and the flocks of thy sheep.
Blessed shall be thy basket and thy store.
Blessed shalt thou be when thou comest in, and blessed shalt thou be when thou goest out.
The Lord shall command the blessings upon thee in thy storehouses, and all that thou settest thine hand unto, and He shall bless thee in the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee.

The lesson, I think, do not trust in riches, but put your trust in God.

Jewish or christians.the outer wall isn't gone but was climbed over and is under the newer city.what do you think is the wailing wall?my point isn't that you can't be rich and serve God only that there us no eye gate

 

[Kenny_ms]

Jewish or christians.the outer wall isn't gone but was climbed over and is under the newer city.what do you think is the wailing wall?my point isn't that you can't be rich and serve God only that there us no eye gate

Scripture please. I mean scripture that states that without a doubt we cannot do both and not just scripture that warns of possibilities for someone weak in that area.

Just a point of possible interest, we may well be able to serve God better if we were rich, I use the word "better" but just for the lack of a better one. Will anyone deny that is true? Can't anyone see how it would be possible to get to more people and see that more souls were saved if we had more money? And that's just one thing. How bout feeding people so their minds aren't so absorbed with lack of nourishment, they can't receive the word of God or much of anything else for that matter?

The reason I was looking for a better word than "better" was none of that is to say a poor persons efforts go unnoticed by God because they aren't as much as someone who is rich and can do more.

 

[Kenny_ms]

Jason, I apologize, I misread your post to say you were saying one can't be rich and and serve God, when you really said you weren't saying that.

Sorry.

 

[jasonc]

Scripture please. I mean scripture that states that without a doubt we cannot do both and not just scripture that warns of possibilities for someone weak in that area.

Just a point of possible interest, we may well be able to serve God better if we were rich, I use the word "better" but just for the lack of a better one. Will anyone deny that is true? Can't anyone see how it would be possible to get to more people and see that more souls were saved if we had more money? And that's just one thing. How bout feeding people so their minds aren't so absorbed with lack of nourishment, they can't receive the word of God or much of anything else for that matter?

The reason I was looking for a better word than "better" was none of that is to say a poor persons efforts go unnoticed by God because they aren't as much as someone who is rich and can do more.

I have already said that was no problem being rich, only I was discussing a small 2ft gate that never existed,

I can post large homes of the billionaires here and millioniares. I already did see my thread route pics, those are condos but those condo rooms are way bigger then my home in sq ft.

 

[Kenny_ms]

I think we are on the same page, Jason.

When I see these huge homes and all the stuff some of these Television preachers own, I think what I do, but IMO, they are what they are and don't even count in what I'm saying. They get a lot of money because they reach a lot of people. TV means money and I have my low opinion of them but I guess in the end it's up to God where there hearts really are at.

Any preacher that lives high like that, IMO shouldn't, it sends a wrong message and they should know that. Wrong message as it may cause their brother to stumble.

As far as individual Christians go, and all this is, once again, is JMO, they can do what they want and God bless them if they do a lot of good with their money, but in the end, same with them, God knows their heart and if they did right by him....that's what really matters. Some will do just enough to get in and other will go beyond that and have a lot of riches once they get in..

 

[jasonc]

its a decision that only YOU and God knows. there is no one size fits all approach to this.if I have 19 kids my needs will be greater then those that don't.

 

[Kenny_ms]

I'm w/ WIP. I think wealth can also complicate things on a whole society wide level. Look at the US and other wealthy nations and how we/they have gone "post-Christian" as a whole, just as an individual might go "post-Christian" w/ lots of resources.

Hi, CE,

Some might say this country became wealthy because of their belief in God but that doesn't mean what you say isn't true.

It could be, the US as a whole has either moved away from God and/or let the money go to their heads...I won't deny that absolutely does happen....hence all the warnings about it in the Bible.

 

[WIP]

Please don't misunderstand me. Jesus didn't say it was impossible for a rich man to get to heaven. He didn't say it was wrong to be rich. Neither do I.

In fact there are those whom God blessed with wealth such as Job, Joseph, David, Solomon, and others. The problem is not the wealth. The problem is our greed and where we put our faith.

The rich young ruler claimed to be righteous and Jesus showed him the truth that he wasn't as righteous as he thought. This was evident when He told him that in order to be perfect he would have to get rid of his idol (his wealth) and then follow Him. He went away sad because he realized he couldn't do what Jesus asked.

 

[Malachi]

Its tough to be middle class these days.

Don't forget that it was Marx who decided that destroying the
bourgeoisie (middle class) would lead to a Communist Paradise. Guess who trained Obama and Hillary and influenced all the liberals in America, and then see why the middle class is being deliberately destroyed. The middle class is generally destroyed in most countries.

Getting back to money -- money is neutral. How people think about wealth is not neutral. It can either become a god or a valuable tool to do some major good for God.

 

[Kenny_ms]

He went away sad because he realized he couldn't do what Jesus asked.

What confuses me about this set of verses is after knowing the Rich man did enough at least to be saved but not to be perfect, Jesus next went on to the verse about the Camel, which would indicate the rich man wasn't saved/wouldn't enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

Maybe it's just me or a bad interpretation by King James but, something seems amiss there.

 

[YosefHayim]

As are hunger pangs and bill collectors so, just try to ignore them.

How about doing without all 3. 1 of them is the reason for the other 2. Solve for x.

 

[KevinK]

the Rich man did enough at least to be saved but not to be perfect

Wait, where do you get that? The Rich Man was never saved; Scene 2 finds him across the chasm in Hades.

 

[Kenny_ms]

How about doing without all 3.

I'll pass, I like to eat, among other things.

Do you do without all three?