Bible Study Absent from the body...have a question

[Bob10]

Cor. 5:6-9, Phil. 1:23

"For I am hard-pressed from both directions, having the desire to depart and be with Christ, for that is very much better; yet to remain on in the flesh is more necessary for your sake.†---Phillipians 1:23-24 NAS / 2Timothy 4:6-8.

Notice, Paul did not say where he would go or when he would be with Christ.

There is not one word mentioning heaven here, nor is there one word saying that he would be with Christ immediately.

In 2Timothy 4:6-8 Paul wrote: "For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand. I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing."

Paul explains what he meant by being with Christ. He does not receive his reward immediately at death. But there is laid up a crown of righteousness which the Lord shall give him at that day. What day? At Christ's appearing----His second coming.

In Isaiah 40:10 we notice this same day mentioned: "Behold, the Lord God will come….behold, his reward is with him…." See also Revelation 22: 12.


To die is gain! In death, there is no knowledge of passing time (Eccl. 9: 5,6,10; Ps. 146: 4). THE NEXT MOMENT IS THE RESURRECTION!

 

[Bob10]

Rev 6:9-11

My comment on this is:

John was "in the spirit" (Rev. 4:2/ see Acts 10:10) during the entire duration of the opening of the Seven Seals. The events John saw in spirit were not happening! They were to happen "hereafter" (Rev. 4:1).

The tribulation came on the saints of God, in type, during the Middle Ages, and it will come yet again (Rev. 6:9, 11).

The souls crying "Avenge our blood" are analogous to Abel's blood "crying unto God from the ground" (Gen. 4:10). Blood doesn't talk. The representation is obviously not literal, but symbolic.

The "souls under the altar" are merely a symbolic representation of the martyrdom of saints.

Just as the blood of the bullock in the Old Testament sacrifices was poured under the altar (Lev. 4:7), so these saints appear to John to be under the altar.

Just as the prayers of saints are compared to incense brought to a heavenly altar (Rev. 5:8; 8:3), so the prayers of these martyred saints come up to God's altar, in symbolic vision.


These saints who have died in Christ are not in heaven. They are "asleep" in their graves, awaiting the resurrection at Christ's coming (1 Thess. 4: 15-17). At that time, they will "reign on the earth" (Rev. 5:10; 20:4).

 

[Bick]

Some have already discussed Phil. 1:20-24, but I would like to give my views.
In Bible study, it is so important to consider the context, rather than pull one verse out to make a decision.

From the RSV: "It is my eager expectation and hope that I will not put to shame in any way, but that by my speaking with all boldness, Christ will be exalted now as always in my body, whether by life or death."

Let's stop right here. Who does Paul want, whether by his life or death, to be exalted? to be glorified? to have the gain, if you will? Who? but Christ!

All through Paul's letters, his efforts, his work, his witnessing, was not for himself; it was for Christ.

Now, verse 21, "For to me, living is Christ and dying is gain." Not to Paul! He wants no gain. In this case a figure of speech, an "elipsis", can be added, certainly in our thoughts.

It could then be "For to me, living is Christ and dying is gain (to Christ).

Another verse that confirms that Paul would only want his death to be gain to Christ, and this attitude should be in each of us.

Rom. 14:7-9, "We do not live to ourselves, and we do not die to ourselves. If we live, we live to the Lord; so then. whether we live or whether we die, we are the Lord's. For to this end Christ died and lived again, so that the might be both Lord of the dead and the living."

Bick

 

[guibox]

Some have already discussed Phil. 1:20-24, but I would like to give my views.
In Bible study, it is so important to consider the context, rather than pull one verse out to make a decision.

From the RSV: "It is my eager expectation and hope that I will not put to shame in any way, but that by my speaking with all boldness, Christ will be exalted now as always in my body, whether by life or death."

Let's stop right here. Who does Paul want, whether by his life or death, to be exalted? to be glorified? to have the gain, if you will? Who? but Christ!

All through Paul's letters, his efforts, his work, his witnessing, was not for himself; it was for Christ.

Now, verse 21, "For to me, living is Christ and dying is gain." Not to Paul! He wants no gain. In this case a figure of speech, an "elipsis", can be added, certainly in our thoughts.

It could then be "For to me, living is Christ and dying is gain (to Christ).

Another verse that confirms that Paul would only want his death to be gain to Christ, and this attitude should be in each of us.

Rom. 14:7-9, "We do not live to ourselves, and we do not die to ourselves. If we live, we live to the Lord; so then. whether we live or whether we die, we are the Lord's. For to this end Christ died and lived again, so that the might be both Lord of the dead and the living."

Bick

Yes that is very correct, Bick. Another way to look at it is that Paul's 'dying being gain' was to bring glory to God. 'Whether I live or die'. In other words, martyrdom will water the seed of faith too. The more Christian blood that was spilled by the Romans, the more Christianity grew.

It is a complete fallacy to interpret 'to die is gain' to mean that 'Paul gets to go to heaven'. Nowhere is there an immediate or lingustic connection to a 'soul'. Instead we merely see that Paul is stating a fact and desire, not an immediate transition here. He blatantly tells us elsewhere when he will receive eternal life and in what form.

2 Timothy 4:6-8
1 Corinthians 15:13-23
1 Corinthians 15:51-54
2 Corinthians 5:1-5

We are to study the bible exegetically not esiegetically. Even if one believes in the immortality of the soul, you cannot glean that from the context of this passage. It is an unsupportable assumption read into it.

Why do so many insist on studying the bible this way and call it 'truth'?