According to Jesus...

[watchman F]

Well at one point you could have considered me "saved", but then I renounced christian beleifs, and eventually became muslim. So according to OSAS, even though I rebuke almost all of the core princibals of christianity, I am still saved? thats crazy talk.

It is crazy talk Mujahid, it is crazy talk.

 

[Danus]

The Bible says you can fall away, the o.p. has presented scripture for this. Maybe you should read the christian unbeliever thread. You must believe all of scripture. Hypothetical argument against scripture have no place in a biblical discussion.

I'm not arguing against scripture. Just on the interpretation of it perhaps. I asked several questions in hopes you might back up some of that scripture so that I might defend OSAS. Can you answer some of those or put something out in opposition to OSAS? Your still my brother. We're just talking.

 

[watchman F]

Well at one point you could have considered me "saved", but then I renounced christian beleifs, and eventually became muslim. So according to OSAS, even though I rebuke almost all of the core princibals of christianity, I am still saved? thats crazy talk.

Nope, that's not according to OSAS. That's not saved to begin with. That's someone with a said faith. Anyone can pledge their belief in something, does that mean they believe?

However, OSAS aside, if people are not always saved once they are saved, then how are they saved? How does one have and keep salvation?

Scripture is clear on that. We are saved by enduring until the end, not being moved away from the faith. So in a since I do believe in OSAS (not how it is taught in your churches of course). But if we are not really saved until we have endured then once we have endured and finished the race entering into eternity as a believer then we will remain saved forever.

Back to the enduring part.

Matthew 24
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved

Mark 13:13 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Colossians 1
21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

2nd Timothy 4:7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:

Hebrews 3
6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, IF we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end
14 For we are made partakers of Christ, IF we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

Revelation 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:


Here are 7 passage of scripture that says we must finish the race/endure until the end to obtain eternal life as Paul says in Philippians 3
Philippians 3
11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

And again in 1st Corinthians
1st Cor 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.


Paul knew starting the race meant nothing, but finishing the race brought about eternal life.


I have shown you many passages that says we must endure to be granted eternal life, now you give me one that says starting the race is all we must do.

 

[Danus]

[quote="Mujahid Abdullah":1o4xggf4]Well at one point you could have considered me "saved", but then I renounced christian beleifs, and eventually became muslim. So according to OSAS, even though I rebuke almost all of the core princibals of christianity, I am still saved? thats crazy talk.

Nope, that's not according to OSAS. That's not saved to begin with. That's someone with a said faith. Anyone can pledge their belief in something, does that mean they believe?

However, OSAS aside, if people are not always saved once they are saved, then how are they saved? How does one have and keep salvation?

Scripture is clear on that. We are saved by enduring until the end, not being moved away from the faith. So in a since I do believe in OSAS (not how it is taught in your churches of course). But if we are not really saved until we have endured then once we have endured and finished the race entering into eternity as a believer then we will remain saved forever.

Back to the enduring part.

Matthew 24
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved

Mark 13:13 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Colossians 1
21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

2nd Timothy 4:7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:

Hebrews 3
6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, IF we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end
14 For we are made partakers of Christ, IF we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

Revelation 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:


Here are 7 passage of scripture that says we must finish the race/endure until the end to obtain eternal life as Paul says in Philippians 3
Philippians 3
11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

And again in 1st Corinthians
1st Cor 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.


Paul knew starting the race meant nothing, but finishing the race brought about eternal life.


I have shown you many passages that says we must endure to be granted eternal life, now you give me one that says starting the race is all we must do.[/quote:1o4xggf4]

I don't see in any of this scripture where one is saved beyond the blood of Christ alone. Grated we are to accept that, but how does this scripture you have here negate what Christ has done for us and our acceptance of that for our salvation? In fact it seems to support it.

Show me where we are to do more than be saved by the blood of Christ and our acceptance to that. In other words. Christ died for us so that we might have salvation...TRUE? and we accept it to recive it...TRUE? .....what more must happen?

 

[shad]

Are your saved by believing and or accepting that Christ died for your sins?

As I already showed in the OP, we must accept Jesus as our Lord and savior. That means we have to be obedient to Jesus. If we stop being obedient to Him for some reason we are no longer His unless we repent. If you read the OP, you understand what I am saying. There is no salvation without being obedient to Jesus. The elects are the most obedient ones who will win the race. They will reign paradise earth with Jesus for 1000 years, and this is another topic.

 

[Danus]

There is no salvation without being obedient to Jesus. The elects are the most obedient ones who will win the race. They will reign paradise earth with Jesus for 1000 years, and this is another topic.

Ahh there it is. So Christ suffering on the cross for us and our accepting that is just phase one of the salvation, we must also walk the line of Christ, otherwise we are doomed to being condemned. If we fail in our walk, we are out of salvation unless we recognize that and repent and then we get our card back, but only if you are able to repent.

So what level of obedience wins? 100% only?

 

[Danus]

There is no salvation without being obedient to Jesus. The elects are the most obedient ones who will win the race. They will reign paradise earth with Jesus for 1000 years, and this is another topic.

Ahh there it is. So Christ suffering on the cross for us and our accepting that is just phase one of the salvation, we must also walk the line of Christ, otherwise we are doomed to being condemned. If we fail in our walk, we are out of salvation unless we recognize that and repent and then we get our card back, but only if you are able to repent.

So what level of obedience wins? 100% only?

Ok I'll just quote myself..Adding to a little. Help me understand the scale of obedience to Christ for those who have accepted him. Again for those who have accepted him. Let's say that 0% obedience is just accepted Christ but not living the Christian life and 100% is accepting Christ and living in absolute obedience to Christ, in fact your sin free. Anything in between is variance of obedience to Christ. Who on that scale, that has accepted Christ ....who is truly saved? Is it 90%? 95%? 99.9% obedient? or is it just the 100% obedient?

 

[watchman F]

Scripture is clear on that. We are saved by enduring until the end, not being moved away from the faith. So in a since I do believe in OSAS (not how it is taught in your churches of course). But if we are not really saved until we have endured then once we have endured and finished the race entering into eternity as a believer then we will remain saved forever.

Back to the enduring part.

Matthew 24
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved

Mark 13:13 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Colossians 1
21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

2nd Timothy 4:7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:

Hebrews 3
6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, IF we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end
14 For we are made partakers of Christ, IF we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

Revelation 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:


Here are 7 passage of scripture that says we must finish the race/endure until the end to obtain eternal life as Paul says in Philippians 3
Philippians 3
11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

And again in 1st Corinthians
1st Cor 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.


Paul knew starting the race meant nothing, but finishing the race brought about eternal life.


I have shown you many passages that says we must endure to be granted eternal life, now you give me one that says starting the race is all we must do.

I don't see in any of this scripture where one is saved beyond the blood of Christ alone. Grated we are to accept that, but how does this scripture you have here negate what Christ has done for us and our acceptance of that for our salvation? In fact it seems to support it.

Show me where we are to do more than be saved by the blood of Christ and our acceptance to that. In other words. Christ died for us so that we might have salvation...TRUE? and we accept it to recive it...TRUE? .....what more must happen?

What more must happen? We must endure until the end. If you can read the passages of scripture that I have given and not understand that, then you are unable to see the clear truth of scripture whether in be by indoctrination, spiritual blindness, or simple denial. The passages I gave cannot be more clear, getting ''saved'' is not good enough REMAINING saved is what is needed, and if it is needful to remain saved then it is obviously not automatic as taught by OSAS promoters

 

[Danus]

What more must happen? We must endure until the end. If you can read the passages of scripture that I have given and not understand that, then you are unable to see the clear truth of scripture whether in be by indoctrination, spiritual blindness, or simple denial. The passages I gave cannot be more clear, getting ''saved'' is not good enough REMAINING saved is what is needed, and if it is needful to remain saved then it is obviously not automatic as taught by OSAS promoters

So accepting Christ is not enough. We must endure in addition to accepting Christ to be saved? Endure in our accepting of Christ or what? What is your definition of endure? Is it live without sin?

What level of endurance is it that we must maintain and define the save man. Is he sin free?

So I have accepted Christ, I belong to a church, I study the word I practice the word....what else? To what level is acceptable to Christ that we make ourselves beyond accepting Christ to be saved?

The passages you gave are not in opposition to OSAS by the way.

 

[shad]

So what level of obedience wins? 100% only?

That is Jesus' job to judge not anyone else. His servants have responsibility to spread to be obedient to Jesus. He says to "make disciples of all nations... teach them to obey everything I have commanded you."

 

[watchman F]

What more must happen? We must endure until the end. If you can read the passages of scripture that I have given and not understand that, then you are unable to see the clear truth of scripture whether in be by indoctrination, spiritual blindness, or simple denial. The passages I gave cannot be more clear, getting ''saved'' is not good enough REMAINING saved is what is needed, and if it is needful to remain saved then it is obviously not automatic as taught by OSAS promoters

So accepting Christ is not enough. We must endure in addition to accepting Christ to be saved?

That is what scripture says

Endure in our accepting of Christ or what? What is your definition of endure? Is it live without sin?

Paul put it best in one of the scriptures I already posted.
Colossians 1
21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

What level of endurance is it that we must maintain and define the save man. Is he sin free?

Well for that one i will have to refer you to the apostle John
1 John 2
1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

So I have accepted Christ, I belong to a church, I study the word I practice the word....what else? To what level is acceptable to Christ that we make ourselves beyond accepting Christ to be saved?

You act like I am personally challenging your personal walk. I am not I am just stating a biblical truth in general. However if you want to know how you can know that you know you are saved I will once again refer you to 1st John chapter 2

1st John 2
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

The passages you gave are not in opposition to OSAS by the way.

Indeed they are, you better go back and re-read them. All of them state that to be saved we must endure until the end and in 1st Corinthians 9:27 Paul actually states that he could himself fall away or become a cast away or ''loose his salvation'' ect...
1st Cor 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

 

[shad]

So I have accepted Christ, I belong to a church, I study the word I practice the word....what else? To what level is acceptable to Christ that we make ourselves beyond accepting Christ to be saved?

If you read the New Testament, you will know what to do as Jesus' servant. Jesus and His disciples give us directions what to do. You don't seem to have any confidence as Jesus' servant.

 

[Danus]

So what level of obedience wins? 100% only?

That is Jesus' job to judge not anyone else. His servants have responsibility to spread to be obedient to Jesus. He says to "make disciples of all nations... teach them to obey everything I have commanded you."

Well I'm just wondering since if you have to tow the line so to speak then who is actually saved? If you have to do more than accept Christ to be saved, what do you have to do and who is in fact saved? It would seem to me that you would be in constant fear of a salvation you are not sure of.

OSAS supports the reformist view, the Protestant view of imputed righteousness. That says that Christ died for your sins. That he paid a price NO MAN can ever afford for their own salvation, and that by your accepting that and that alone you are saved.....the bonus is that once that happens a great work begins in you and you began to conform to Christ. Will you be perfect ? NO will you fall sometimes? YES, but will you loose your salvation when you fail....NO.

Your works are worthless for your salvation. You may produce great works and in fact your great works are testament to your accepting Christ OH YES...but that will not save you nor maintain your salvation.

THAT my good brothers is OSAS.

 

[shad]

[

Well I'm just wondering since if you have to tow the line so to speak then who is actually saved?

Jesus is the Judge, not anyone else.

 

[watchman F]

Danus do you want to know what do do to be saved. Deny yourself take up your cross and follow after Jesus. Lay down your wants, your needs, and live out the will of God for your life. The sad fact is most quote unquote ''believers'' are on their way to Hell, because they serve self and not Jesus Christ. The Westernized, American gospel of walk down the isle, pray this prayer, sign this card, and accept Jesus into your heart so you can get into Heaven is much different that the you must loose your life to save it gospel taught by Jesus Himself, and I believe does more damage than good. That is why we must avoid cheap caricatures of Christianity that fail to exalt the revelation of God in His word. We cannot settle for anything less that the God-centered, Christ exalting, self denying gospel taught in scripture.

Matthew 7
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Jesus was not speaking to atheist, heretics, or pagan. He was speaking to devoutly religious people who had deluded themselves that they were on the straight and narrow rode, when really they were on the wide road that leads to Hell. I pray we do not fall into this tap ourselves, but that we keep our gaze on Jesus as His words. Testifying only those things that God Himself has testified to in His word.

1st Corinthians 10:12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

 

[Danus]

[quote="watchman F":2n0eopp0]What more must happen? We must endure until the end. If you can read the passages of scripture that I have given and not understand that, then you are unable to see the clear truth of scripture whether in be by indoctrination, spiritual blindness, or simple denial. The passages I gave cannot be more clear, getting ''saved'' is not good enough REMAINING saved is what is needed, and if it is needful to remain saved then it is obviously not automatic as taught by OSAS promoters

So accepting Christ is not enough. We must endure in addition to accepting Christ to be saved?

That is what scripture says

Endure in our accepting of Christ or what? What is your definition of endure? Is it live without sin?

Paul put it best in one of the scriptures I already posted.
Colossians 1
21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

What level of endurance is it that we must maintain and define the save man. Is he sin free?

Well for that one i will have to refer you to the apostle John
1 John 2
1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

So I have accepted Christ, I belong to a church, I study the word I practice the word....what else? To what level is acceptable to Christ that we make ourselves beyond accepting Christ to be saved?

You act like I am personally challenging your personal walk. I am not I am just stating a biblical truth in general. However if you want to know how you can know that you know you are saved I will once again refer you to 1st John chapter 2

1st John 2
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

The passages you gave are not in opposition to OSAS by the way.

Indeed they are, you better go back and re-read them. All of them state that to be saved we must endure until the end and in 1st Corinthians 9:27 Paul actually states that he could himself fall away or become a cast away or ''loose his salvation'' ect...
1st Cor 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.[/quote:2n0eopp0]

All great verses my brother, and all support OSAS. None of these say that you can loose what you have been given by grace and what you have accepted by faith. It's my bedtime, but I'll try to pick out a few when I can and comment further.

 

[watchman F]

So accepting Christ is not enough. We must endure in addition to accepting Christ to be saved?

That is what scripture says

Endure in our accepting of Christ or what? What is your definition of endure? Is it live without sin?

Paul put it best in one of the scriptures I already posted.
Colossians 1
21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;


[quote:2hp537en]What level of endurance is it that we must maintain and define the save man. Is he sin free?

Well for that one i will have to refer you to the apostle John
1 John 2
1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

[quote:2hp537en]So I have accepted Christ, I belong to a church, I study the word I practice the word....what else? To what level is acceptable to Christ that we make ourselves beyond accepting Christ to be saved?

You act like I am personally challenging your personal walk. I am not I am just stating a biblical truth in general. However if you want to know how you can know that you know you are saved I will once again refer you to 1st John chapter 2

1st John 2
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

The passages you gave are not in opposition to OSAS by the way.

Indeed they are, you better go back and re-read them. All of them state that to be saved we must endure until the end and in 1st Corinthians 9:27 Paul actually states that he could himself fall away or become a cast away or ''loose his salvation'' ect...
1st Cor 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.[/quote:2hp537en]

All great verses my brother, and all support OSAS. None of these say that you can loose what you have been given by grace and what you have accepted by faith. It's my bedtime, but I'll try to pick out a few when I can and comment further.[/quote:2hp537en]WOW!!!! that about all i can say. If you think those verses actually support the false teaching of OSAS then you have been indoctrinated, and someone must of did a good job of doing so.

 

[Danus]

Danus do you want to know what do do to be saved. Deny yourself take up your cross and follow after Jesus. Lay down your wants, your needs, and live out the will of God for your life. The sad fact is most quote unquote ''believers'' are on their way to Hell, because they serve self and not Jesus Christ. The Westernized, American gospel of walk down the isle, pray this prayer, sign this card, and accept Jesus into your heart so you can get into Heaven is much different that the you must loose your life to save it gospel taught by Jesus Himself, and I believe does more damage than good. That is why we must avoid cheap caricatures of Christianity that fail to exalt the revelation of God in His word. We cannot settle for anything less that the God-centered, Christ exalting, self denying gospel taught in scripture.

Matthew 7
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Jesus was not speaking to atheist, heretics, or pagan. He was speaking to devoutly religious people who had deluded themselves that they were on the straight and narrow rode, when really they were on the wide road that leads to Hell. I pray we do not fall into this tap ourselves, but that we keep our gaze on Jesus as His words. Testifying only those things that God Himself has testified to in His word.

1st Corinthians 10:12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

I am saved and I am 100% assured of my salvation. I am also sure that you are saved as well as anyone who accepts Christ in faith.

OSAS has nothing to do with your argument against it. I understand your argument and why some people have a hard time with it, but I've yet to find anyone who argues against OSAS who really understanding it.

 

[Vic C.]

Do most christian not beleive this?

I don't think it is most. You should know that John Calvin was militant Christian and ordered to kill non-trinitarian.

Jesus says we know them by their fruit. Christianity and viciousness should not be mixed.

History show us there was one and his name was Michael Servetus. History also shows us that in the 16th. century, politics were anything but secular. We often take their world view and filter it through a 20th. and 21st. century secular way of thinking. Their world revolved around their "religious" beliefs, for better or for worse.

Quite honestly, if Calvin didn't get to Michael Servetus, the RCC surely would have caught up to him, as their view of the Trinity did not differ from the Reformers.

Here's a question to further the discussion:

Who thinks God is not capable of securing the salvation of His chosen ones? Is perseverance an "inherent" trait or is God in charge of our perseverance?

Sidenote:

Mujahid, what was described on page two is called "double predestination". This is mostly held by the hyper-calvinist.

The more logical way to think of this is this way: we all deserve eternal separation from God, but He chooses, unconditionally, who He wills to be saved from this fate. Total depravity in misunderstood in most cases and many people will deny any trace of depravity. One reading of Jesus' Sermon on the Mount tells us otherwise.

If I were a betting man, I'd bet that there is not one person alive who has never done something wrong or never had a bad thought about another person, even if it was a fleeting thought. This would never happen if depravity was not a part of our "nature". :yes

 

[Danus]

WOW!!!! that about all i can say. If you think those verses actually support the false teaching of OSAS then you have been indoctrinated, and someone must of did a good job of doing so.

Yes he did a great job of it and Yes I am completely indoctrinated but not of any false teachings. Yes those verses have nothing to do with the opposition to OSAS. There isn't anything you can quote in the bible to successfully argue against OSAS.

Shad has a better argument in saying that we must do more than accept Christ. You might want to let his argument take the lead for "Infused Righteousness" Rome would be proud of what he has said so far.