Bible Study Adam, Eve and the Serpent

[Sparkey]

Let's suppose that you were Abel. or living at the time of Abel - and all the scripture you had was Gen 1-3.

Could you possibly conclude that it was 'Lucifer', 'satan', the 'devil' who caused Adam and Eve to sin?

Would you not rather think that this was a real serpent? (Paul did, you know:

2 Cor.11:

3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.)

No. I don't "suppose" that I was Able. Further, I do not "suppose" that Able was ignorant of God. The Bible tells us that God interacted differently with Him than He does me. Why assume that the difference means in an inferior manner? I don't buy it. That's like pretending that men who lived for almost 1,000 years were not capable of emerging from caves.

We don't seem to be agreeing on much here but it's okay we have it on good authority that all will be revealed. You won't mind if I wait I presume.

Cordially,
~Sparrow

 

[Elijah674]

Adam & Eve are human beings as told here. The serpent was created, as well as the 'evil spirit' before angels became evil. All angels are 'ministering spirits' Earth was the evil spirits home as Rev. 12 finds, before Earth's creation. Jer. 4 finds this same Truth in past & future Prophecy. Rev. 20 also teach's one this fact as mankind is seen removed for a 1000 year period of time. The saved in heavens Judgement of the Earths evil angels & all of the wicked DEAD.

As found below, Adam & Eve [became] a living soul when God's Breath entered them. When breath is removed, the [Living Soul (person) becomes a DEAD soul]. And all spirits are either good or evil from heaven's rebellion.

Yet, do not miss what the Godhead teach's here about THEIR 7th Day Sabbath. For the serpent (satan) does not call God a liar about Eternal DEATH only, but also about Their Special DAY for Worship.
Gen.2

[1] Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
[2] And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
[3] And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

....

[7] And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

If today's mankind were Rom. 8:14 'LED' by the Holy Spirit which was still 'omnipresent' at this time before Adam sinned, and once again presenting Christ omnipresent after Christ's Atonement, they would get this right before trying to be teachers of anything more! But instead of that, both required Truth's have most beliving satan & 'teaching' the Godhead to be the liars.

And that has most all of the Rev. 17:1-5 denominational ones doing this for well over & past any 120 years of the FINAL allotted time of the Holy Spirits STRIVING as seen in Gen. 6:3!

--Elijah

 

[Asyncritus]

No. I don't "suppose" that I was Able. Further, I do not "suppose" that Able was ignorant of God. The Bible tells us that God interacted differently with Him than He does me. Why assume that the difference means in an inferior manner? I don't buy it. That's like pretending that men who lived for almost 1,000 years were not capable of emerging from caves.

We don't seem to be agreeing on much here but it's okay we have it on good authority that all will be revealed. You won't mind if I wait I presume.

Cordially,
~Sparrow

Hi Sparrow

I think you took me wrongly there.

I was merely trying to say, somewhat clumsily I fear, that given the record of Gen 1 - 3, no-one could conclude that the serpent was anything other than a serpent.

Lucifer hadn't happened yet - and in fact is the king of Babylon as Isa 14 tells us.

Rev 12 hadn't happened yet, and was still many years future to the death of Christ.

So how could anyone think that the serpent wasn't a serpent?

And even more strangely, the word 'devil' doesn't occur anywhere in the OT!

It does leave some very serious questions unanswered - like where does the idea of this angel who was expelled from heaven come from?

 

[Asyncritus]

Adam & Eve are human beings as told here. The serpent was created,

So far, perfectly correct.

as well as the 'evil spirit' before angels became evil. All angels are 'ministering spirits'

Now you err. If ALL angels are 'ministering spirits', whose job is, to quote Hebrews:

1:14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

Then they can't be 'evil' spirits. Their function is to do good, to minister to the 'heirs of salvation'. Just run down the concordance for the word 'diakonia' and you'll soon see what I mean.

Earth was the evil spirits home as Rev. 12 finds, before Earth's creation.

Now you enter the realms of conjecture. As Rev 1. says:

1 ¶ The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

In other words, ch 12 hadn't happened yet!

Jer. 4 finds this same Truth in past & future Prophecy.

Is this what you mean?

23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.
24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.
27 For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.
28 For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black: because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.

Just read the context and you'll soon see that this is to do with Israel's destruction, not something that happened before the world existed:

4. 20 Destruction upon destruction is cried; for the whole land is spoiled: suddenly are my tents spoiled, and my curtains in a moment.

21 How long shall I see the standard, and hear the sound of the trumpet?
22 For my people is foolish, they have not known me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge.

That's Israel, 'my people' as he says.

29 The whole city [Jerusalem] shall flee for the noise of the horsemen and bowmen; they shall go into thickets, and climb up upon the rocks: every city shall be forsaken, and not a man dwell therein.

Rev. 20 also teach's one this fact as mankind is seen removed for a 1000 year period of time. The saved in heavens Judgement of the Earths evil angels & all of the wicked DEAD.

So all this is yet future, and had nothing to do with what happened before Gen 1. Right?

As found below, Adam & Eve [became] a living soul when God's Breath entered them. When breath is removed, the [Living Soul (person) becomes a DEAD soul].

Absolutely correct.

And all spirits are either good or evil from heaven's rebellion.

What rebellion?

Yet, do not miss what the Godhead teach's here about THEIR 7th Day Sabbath. For the serpent (satan) does not call God a liar about Eternal DEATH only, but also about Their Special DAY for Worship.
Gen.2

Where did the serpent say that?

 

[Sparkey]

Hi Sparrow

I think you took me wrongly there.

I was merely trying to say, somewhat clumsily I fear, that given the record of Gen 1 - 3, no-one could conclude that the serpent was anything other than a serpent.

Lucifer hadn't happened yet - and in fact is the king of Babylon as Isa 14 tells us.

Rev 12 hadn't happened yet, and was still many years future to the death of Christ.

So how could anyone think that the serpent wasn't a serpent?

And even more strangely, the word 'devil' doesn't occur anywhere in the OT!

It does leave some very serious questions unanswered - like where does the idea of this angel who was expelled from heaven come from?

The discussion started with the statement that Adam invited and/or commanded the serpent into the Garden of Eden then went on to state that the serpent ate of the fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. We now see Able as ignorant of God and His ways???

Your supposition that Adam, Eve, Able and Cain had ONLY the knowledge they read from the Word of God is very strange to me. It was your reply to another post, "What scriptural justification can you bring forward from Gen 3 to support this?" that prompted my question.

You've stated that "given the record of Genesis, chapters one through three, no one could conclude..."

This side-steps the thrust and point of my post, sir. Genesis had not been written at the time. The error that I tried to point occurred by limiting the knowledge of Adam and Eve to the Scripture written by Moses. Perhaps it would have been better to have stated that since we are limited to the truth shown to us by the Holy Scriptures, breathed by God, penned by Moses concerning the various activities of the first man, we can not know that the serpent was more than just a serpent. From there though, you will need to admit that even though their experience with God was not identical to ours, we do have greater revelation. I hope so, anyway. Isn't that exactly what Jesus said? He did not deny that Adam and Eve walked with God in the Garden (whatever that means) but instead said that none have seen His Father, God, except Him. He states clearly that we can only know God through Him. Moses also sates that none can "see God, face to face." Those who understand that the Word of God does not contradict itself, that God is not a liar, understand and can comprehend these seemingly contradictory statements well enough.

My question comes then, why do we see a need to mess with our understanding of the Scriptures about the Beginning (Genesis)?

Philip said unto him, "Lord, shew us the Father, and it is sufficient to us."
Jesus replied unto him, "Have I been so long time with you, and yet you do not know me, Philip?"
Jesus continued and declared, "He that hath seen me hath seen the Father."
​

Cordially,
~Sparrow

PS. I took some liberty with the formatting of John 14:8-9. Public Domain belongs to me (and to you too). There is no "publisher" to grant me the right to quote or to restrict my quote. In point of fact, by typing the words, I am the publisher. Legal-eagles may PM me with any concerns they may harbor about that if they wanna. Paul didn't include formal citations when he quoted stuff. I don't know of any law or rule that says I need to. If and when somebody PMs me, please remember to state if I slaughtered the meaning or not. That would be wrong, of course.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

"BY ONE MAN."

Sure - Adam that's clear. The "serpent" (whatever it was) doesn't count since satan (who animated it) wasn't part of the Adamic race - which is all the Bible is concerned with: "Adam and HIS decendants".

And the Biblical record states that Eve was "Deceived", Adam apparently WASN'T and committed the sin of REBELLION (iniquity) - and "Brought Sin into the world by his premeditated and willful act.

The SECOND MAN - Jesus - fully associated with Adamic Humanity - did what the FIRST man didn't, and provided the "Way of escape" from judgement for all of us.

Simple as that.

 

[Asyncritus]

"BY ONE MAN."

Sure - Adam that's clear. The "serpent" (whatever it was) doesn't count since satan (who animated it)[...]

I don't see that anywhere, especially in Gen 3. Where did you have in mind?

 

[Pizzaguy]

I appreciate the time and work the OPer put into this. And I must say, I have never read a more compelling argument.

But this kind of thought comes to mind:

always let Scripture interpret Scriptures.

As well as Bob's contribution:

"BY ONE MAN."

Sure - Adam that's clear. The "serpent" (whatever it was) doesn't count since satan (who animated it) wasn't part of the Adamic race - which is all the Bible is concerned with: "Adam and HIS decendants".

And the Biblical record states that Eve was "Deceived", Adam apparently WASN'T and committed the sin of REBELLION (iniquity) - and "Brought Sin into the world by his premeditated and willful act.

The SECOND MAN - Jesus - fully associated with Adamic Humanity - did what the FIRST man didn't, and provided the "Way of escape" from judgement for all of us.

Simple as that.

It's all about INTERPRETATION when it comes to the Bible and CERTAINLY SO when it comes to much of Genesis and Revelation.

This is good food for thought, but I wonder just what God wants us to do with the passages quoted - or the whole BOOK, for that matter. There are many of us with too little intellect to understand ANYTHING more than what Bob posted.

Was God only speaking/writing to those of superior intellect? I think not.

A wise pastor once counseled me long ago, when I was working too hard (in his eyes) in "figuring out" the bible. He said, "Mark, be careful about over-intellectualizing God's word. He did not intend for us to do that - but instead to accept where we are, and understand His instructions for us on how to live, how to treat one another, and how to honor and even fellowship with him."

Did Adam and Eve eat an apple? Did a serpent speak to them? I don't know, I can't tell, and I DO NOT CARE. And what of it? Did Adam condemn me to a world where:

My sister is slowing dying from M.S?
Babies are aborted like the pouring out of sour milk?
Mental patients (like my grown son) suffer from schizophrenia?
Lives are cut short by Cancer - and often end in painful, sorrowful ways?

The Bible says he did. Your long, drawn out, carefully written and researched piece tries to answer some hard questions... but can it answer this one: WHY?

No, it can't. It is not time now to look back on all of this... it's time now to live, to look for the good we can all do around us, to honor God in the way He asks us individually to.

I don't know what He has for you,... but right now, I must deceide if I am going to give up on finding a wife, a love, and a life - and instead take in my sister and care for her for 6 months to 30 years.

Forgive me, but I really don't care what Adam did or didn't do so long ago. I haven't the time. But I guess you do - lucky you.

 

[reba]

Interesting thread! I have a question that has bugged me for a long time, you guys might have an answere or two.

Gen 3:14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

We tend to think of snakes and the devil one being the 'picture' of the other.. Are there any snakes that eat dirt?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Gen 1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

God created the serpent, We might not like the idea that He created them but the Word says every thing that creepeth upon the earth.


The plan of Salvation was from before the foundation of the world

Eph 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:


Adam was to be unto his wife as Christ is to the church adam wasn't I agree with Handy Eve has had a bad rap

 

[Asyncritus]

I appreciate the time and work the OPer put into this. And I must say, I have never read a more compelling argument.

[...]

Forgive me, but I really don't care what Adam did or didn't do so long ago. I haven't the time. But I guess you do - lucky you.

Dear Pizzaguy

I thank you for your kind words and for taking the time to reply to the study.

I am also deeply sorry that your life has seen and is seeing so very, very much sorrow and trouble.

I wish Adam hadn't dropped us so deeply in all this, but I take comfort from the fact that if all this hadn't happened, Christ would never have appeared, and we may never have seen what a human being could be really like.

The scriptures can be taken at any number of levels, and the simplest is nearly always the best. To me, there's nothing greater in it anywhere than John 3.16:

For God SO loved the world that he gave His only-begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

You ask WHY did Adam do as he did.

He was the father of the human race and as we all know, we all want to improve ourselves. How could he possibly improve himself in such a marvellous situation? There was only one avenue open to him as the articles outline.

But let's not open that can of worms again.

I thank you for your kind words, and pray for you in your situation.

Sincerely

Asyncritus

 

[Asyncritus]

Interesting thread! I have a question that has bugged me for a long time, you guys might have an answere or two.

Gen 3:14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

We tend to think of snakes and the devil one being the 'picture' of the other.. Are there any snakes that eat dirt?

Not fulfilled yet. Maybe in the kingdom of God:

Isa 65.25 "...and dust shall be the serpent's meat"

 

[Pizzaguy]

The scriptures can be taken at any number of levels, and the simplest is nearly always the best. To me, there's nothing greater in it anywhere than John 3.16:

For God SO loved the world that he gave His only-begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Agreed - and that is kinda what I was getting at in MY post.

 

[Sparkey]

"But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, "O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?" - Matthew 3:7 KJV​

The above causes me to think that Jesus may have had a different point of view than what has been expressed so far. No, I'm not trying to say that Genesis depicts Pharisees metaphorically as snakes but instead that what happened in the garden and especially the curse that was given in response to the events that transpired might be fulfilled in greater than a literal sense. Jesus, the Word of God and Sword of Truth went on to say, "And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire." - Matthew 3:10 KJV

The topics covered in Genesis have greater application to our lives than we realize. Adam didn't have to invite snakes into the garden any more than Jesus had to invite Pharisees to his baptism.

 

[Asyncritus]

"But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, "O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?" - Matthew 3:7 KJV
​

The Pharisees etc are being described as the children of serpents - note, He says brood of viperS (plural - not singular as we would expect if He was referring to Gen 3)
​

The above causes me to think that Jesus may have had a different point of view than what has been expressed so far. No, I'm not trying to say that Genesis depicts Pharisees metaphorically as snakes but instead that what happened in the garden and especially the curse that was given in response to the events that transpired might be fulfilled in greater than a literal sense.

The curse on the serpent included the bruising of the heel of the woman's seed (a non-fatal wound), and the crushing of the serpent's head ( a fatal wound).


The woman's seed would crush 'thy' (the serpent's head), implying that His sacrifice would be efficacious back right to the first sinners. Thus far the non-literal aspects of this.


We still have the question - how was it that BY ONE MAN sin entered the world, and death by sin - when the serpent spoke the first lie, and the woman first ate of the fruit?

Jesus, the Word of God and Sword of Truth (????? where does it say this?) went on to say, "And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire." - Matthew 3:10 KJV

um... John the Baptist said that.

The topics covered in Genesis have greater application to our lives than we realize. Adam didn't have to invite snakes into the garden any more than Jesus had to invite Pharisees to his baptism.

If you accept the view I have put forward, you will soon see that every one of the lusts, and desires to do wrong were present from the beginning in mankind.

When the woman saw

1 That the tree was pleasant to the eyes - the lust of the eyes

2 And good for food - the lust of the flesh

3 and to be desired to make one wise - the pride of life

Some silly people will insist that these lusts were not there. The fact remains that Eve (at least) had them BEFORE she ate of the fruit.

This is therefore serious exhortation for us - right from the word go.

 

[Sparkey]

The Pharisees etc are being described as the children of serpents - note, He says brood of viperS (plural - not singular as we would expect if He was referring to Gen 3)
​

The curse on the serpent included the bruising of the heel of the woman's seed (a non-fatal wound), and the crushing of the serpent's head ( a fatal wound).


The woman's seed would crush 'thy' (the serpent's head), implying that His sacrifice would be efficacious back right to the first sinners. Thus far the non-literal aspects of this.


We still have the question - how was it that BY ONE MAN sin entered the world, and death by sin - when the serpent spoke the first lie, and the woman first ate of the fruit?





um... John the Baptist said that.



If you accept the view I have put forward, you will soon see that every one of the lusts, and desires to do wrong were present from the beginning in mankind.

When the woman saw

1 That the tree was pleasant to the eyes - the lust of the eyes

2 And good for food - the lust of the flesh

3 and to be desired to make one wise - the pride of life

Some silly people will insist that these lusts were not there. The fact remains that Eve (at least) had them BEFORE she ate of the fruit.

This is therefore serious exhortation for us - right from the word go.

I like your point about the nature of the garden and the potential for the 3 main categories of sin but really, instead of calling people who may have differing opinions than you "silly" or positioning yourself in opposition to something that others say in order to say what you mean, maybe, we could all find peace first and then share it. That's my wish for you, sir. Oppose oppositional disorder. Join the fight for peace. Feel free to contribute any other oxymoron as it comes up. I don't have to accept the view you put forward (as you say) in its entirety to be able to cherrypick a nugget or two from the stuff you write. We are all being sharpened together. Your judgment is sound? Mine is also. This is bible study section - not debate and I'm not trying to debunk what you say, but only offering the benefit of my view as we study the word together. We can beat our plow-shears into swords later.
~Sparrow

 

[TRUTH over TRADITION]

Here is a link The Apocalypse of Moses to a writing known as the Apocalypse of Moses which is actually a document that pre-dates the time of Jesus that speaks of the life of Adam and Eve. I found it to be an interesting read.