Addiction?

[evenifigoalone]

Falling into sin and being addicted to some sinful habit or behavior are really two different things. Christians can sin, and also fall. But that is not the same thing.

Addiction isn't always to something sinful, though. Mine wasn't. It was a psychological addiction to something innocent.
Most people think of alcohol or drugs when they hear the word addiction, but actually addiction can be toward virtually anything. Shopping isn't sinful, in and of itself, for instance. (That wasn't what my addiction was, though.)

 

[evenifigoalone]

My addiction was to a tv program. And that isn't so out there, actually. You've heard stories of people committing suicide over an anime or rock music obsession or dying because they were so obsessed with online gaming they wouldn't even get up to meet their bodily needs, right? I grew up hearing those stories as some kind of proof that those things are inherently evil, but after my own experience, I realize those were cases of addiction.

 

[Christ_empowered]

My addiction, pre-Christ, was Rx stuff. Somehow, I had a big Rx for Adderall and lots of various downers (Ativan, Klonopin, etc.). That's a bad mix, btw.

Part of what helped me was Teen Challenge (no, its not actually for teenagers these days, lol). They think of addiction as a sin to be repented of and use 1+ year programs to change behavior, too. At that point, I wasn't addicted, but I was burned out from the pills (again: drugs are bad, mkay?), so it was quite helpful, lifechanging even.

I think...I think God is merciful, but He also has certain expectations. And not all addictions are the same. If I still had crazy anxiety and --had-- to take a benzodiazepine, I think God would understand. Same thing for pain management, and (I think) medical marijuana. Not all drug use is drug abuse.

Having said that...some people need a while to work through an addiction. With drugs, sometimes just detoxing can be a painful experience (alcohol, too). And...I've seen first hand how some people trade an addiction to chemical X for a high intensity form of Christianity. Or they can get addicted to work, seeking status, etc. I don't know if counseling or what helps in that situation, or if its the Holy Spirit's gradual work in someone's life to change what drives them, but...yeah. I think God is more merciful than we give Him credit for, and He seems to show mercy to the humble, so...a repentant (alcoholic, drug addict, pill head) is probably given more grace than an unrepentant (insert major sin --here--). My theory, of course.

 

[evenifigoalone]

Addictions can happen to prescription drugs just like even if, for example, you need a higher dosage than you're being given just to relieve terrible pain, for example. It isn't always because you intended to purposefully abuse the substance.
You can't paint it all under a broad brush.

 

[evenifigoalone]

Technically, addiction is the impulse towards something, and that something gives you a happy feeling--your reward system is rewired to reward you for that thing. The same reward system that makes us feel good after getting a lot of work done--except usually more intense.
Dependence is technically separate, but usually occurs alongside addiction. It's when you experience withdrawal symptoms when you're not indulging in the thing you have an addiction towards. These are terrible and addicts will go back to the addiction just to feel alright for a while.
My withdrawal symptoms made me suicidal.

I'm really beginning to question if some in this thread actually know anything about addiction and how it works. If you did I don't think you'd be saying some of the things you are.

 

[KevinK]

I think you have to be careful in what you say here. ALL SIN separates us from God if we have no forgiveness. It sounds to me like you are saying that if you have an addiction as a Christian you lose your salvation and are condemned to hell. If this is true of being addicted to something, then it is true of all sin, and none of us would have any hope of salvation. But this simply isn't the case. There is simply no sin that the forgiveness given to us through Christ isn't powerful enough to cover once we have accepted it.

No, I did not mean to say that. I was making a statement about addicts, not Christians. Let's say that if you have an addiction when you die, you may go to Hell because of it.

 

[KevinK]

Technically, addiction is the impulse towards something, and that something gives you a happy feeling--your reward system is rewired to reward you for that thing. The same reward system that makes us feel good after getting a lot of work done--except usually more intense.
Dependence is technically separate, but usually occurs alongside addiction. It's when you experience withdrawal symptoms when you're not indulging in the thing you have an addiction towards. These are terrible and addicts will go back to the addiction just to feel alright for a while.
My withdrawal symptoms made me suicidal.

I'm really beginning to question if some in this thread actually know anything about addiction and how it works. If you did I don't think you'd be saying some of the things you are.

That is exactly what I deal with. I often call myself an addict (to pain meds), but my doctor is quick to remind me that I'm dependent, not addicted. I depend on drugs to combat the pain, and will go through withdrawal if I stop suddenly. But I pray every day for the pain to stop so I can cease using drugs.

 

[Malachi]

I'm really beginning to question if some in this thread actually know anything about addiction and how it works.

Here's what addiction means according to Merriam-Webster: A compulsive physiological need for and use of a habit-forming substance (as heroin, nicotine, or alcohol) characterized by tolerance and by well-defined physiological symptoms upon withdrawal; broadly : persistent compulsive use of a substance known by the user to be physically, psychologically, or socially harmful—

That is fair enough. So basically addiction is to substances, but it could also apply to activities, and perhaps it should then be called "obsession". It is essentially compulsive behavior, and when we relate it to matters of the spirit, then it is the compulsive behavior of the FLESH (sin nature).

But since God has given every believer the gift of the indwelling Holy Spirit, He can overcome any addition by His power. But the flesh must be mortified in order to walk in the Spirit.

 

[evenifigoalone]

Here's what addiction means according to Merriam-Webster: A compulsive physiological need for and use of a habit-forming substance (as heroin, nicotine, or alcohol) characterized by tolerance and by well-defined physiological symptoms upon withdrawal; broadly : persistent compulsive use of a substance known by the user to be physically, psychologically, or socially harmful—

That is fair enough. So basically addiction is to substances, but it could also apply to activities, and perhaps it should then be called "obsession". It is essentially compulsive behavior, and when we relate it to matters of the spirit, then it is the compulsive behavior of the FLESH (sin nature).

But since God has given every believer the gift of the indwelling Holy Spirit, He can overcome any addition by His power. But the flesh must be mortified in order to walk in the Spirit.

Obsession doesn't begin to describe the experience, imo. It's much more involved than that. You have a hard time NOT thinking about something. You can't not think about it, even if you know you need to stop, even if you WANT to stop. I've had many obsessions in my life, but just one instance of addiction.

Take what you're saying here and apply it to physical illness--is someone not really saved if, upon conversion, they are not healed?
Addiction has as much to do with our biological functions as does something like cancer.

 

[Christ_empowered]

I dunno...addiction is now conceptualized as a brain disease, but so is everything. Depression is a brain disease, schizophrenia is a brain disease, on and on it goes. What's lacking? Hard evidence.

 

[evenifigoalone]

I dunno...addiction is now conceptualized as a brain disease, but so is everything. Depression is a brain disease, schizophrenia is a brain disease, on and on it goes. What's lacking? Hard evidence.

Dunno about the lack of evidence. Another member here had a lot to say about what we know about addiction and what causes it. The member was involved in ministry helping drug addicts. Wish I could remember half of what he said.

Our minds share a connection to our bodies, and there are functions that can go wrong in that area just as there are with our bodies. I don't know why this is such a hard concept for the church to understand. It's eternally frustrating. I think the church's "just trust God" is equivalent to the world's "just get over it". It is seriously not that simple.

 

[Christ_empowered]

I'm not saying the brain isn't involved, I'm just saying...there's a lot going on with complex behavior patterns. On the one hand, I'm glad people are at least sometimes treating addicts with some respect as they try to get clean. On the other hand....most programs have dismal success rates, a lot of "Treatment" involves switching over to doc-approved Rx pills, and I personally think a lot of this "addiction is a brain disease" deal has more to do with how society now deals with deviant behavior than it does w/ actual evidence. Just my take on it.

 

[evenifigoalone]

I'm not saying the brain isn't involved, I'm just saying...there's a lot going on with complex behavior patterns. On the one hand, I'm glad people are at least sometimes treating addicts with some respect as they try to get clean. On the other hand....most programs have dismal success rates, a lot of "Treatment" involves switching over to doc-approved Rx pills, and I personally think a lot of this "addiction is a brain disease" deal has more to do with how society now deals with deviant behavior than it does w/ actual evidence. Just my take on it.

I think it is partially that, at least. Addictive substances are more involved with the body than mine was. For me all my symptoms were mental/emotional. We do know that the reward system is involved, is all I can say.
There is a lot we don't know about the mind and mental illness, definitely. But we used to be much less knowledgeable about physical illness, too. There were a lot of things about physical illness we used to believe that have been proven wrong.

 

[evenifigoalone]

The problem here is we are thinking of addiction as something that is entirely under your control, even after it is formed. You can stop at any time, you just don't want to. If you really loved God you would stop, it's that easy.
That's...not how it works. If it were JUST the impulse, without dependence, then...maybe. Maybe. But when dependence is involved, you literally are driven to the addiction just to not be in horrible pain. It is something that involves more than just our own desire to stop--and we do want to stop!! Do you think being miserable to the point of wanting to kill yourself is fun? Being trapped in addiction is hell.

 

[Christ_empowered]

addiction is complicated. There's brain issues, the rest of the body, social issues, family issues, personality issues, on and on it goes. For instance: cocaine and heroin were once legal and fairly readily available in the US. Many addictive pills were available fairly easily (for a long time, prescriptions for amphetamines and barbiturates could be refilled many times without being renewed, and the drugs were barely regulated). LSD was once an experimental psychiatric drug.

Things change. If I have an Rx for, say, Dexedrine, then I'm a patient w/ a condition. If I have Dexedrine in my pocket w/o an Rx, I'm an addict at best, more likely a criminal (especially if poor). If I take xanax w/ a doc's approval, I probably have an anxiety disorder. If my doc decides to taper me off and I get it off the street, then I'm an addict. See where I'm going with this? Its not just the biological and psychological issues, its larger social and legal issues, too.

 

[evenifigoalone]

I guess I am coming on rather strongly here. I apologize, I need to calm down. It's just that this is a topic I feel especially strongly on. How we respond to those who are hurting is of utmost importance--people can be pushed away from the church by the kind of stuff that is said.
Many people who deal with things like depression feel like the church is the worst place to go to to seek comfort. Everyone shows sympathy for physical pain because we've all experienced physical pain and it's easy to be empathetic. But not everyone knows what mental illness is like, how much it can hurt and affect daily lives. So it's easier for others to act like it doesn't exist. For myself, I am personally glad I experienced what I did--it was hell, but I have an easier time understanding what others are going through because of it.

 

[Christ_empowered]

yeah...mental illness is rough. I had a nervous breakdown and now have been diagnosed with Bipolar I. I'm just not convinced its all in the brain, because there's a lot involved here. Plus, the available treatments just suppress symptoms, they don't actually --fix-- anything.

 

[evenifigoalone]

One more thing I will add just in general--a couple of times now I have made a comparison to cancer. I think this is a good comparison, because cancer can be (but not always) a result of bad decisions.
Say someone has lung cancer from smoking. Sure, it was their fault, but that doesn't mean their disease doesn't need to be treated. That doesn't mean repenting and being sorry is just going to undo the damage that was done, unless God chooses to heal it.
Addiction still involves our bodily systems, and that is why quitting is so tremendously difficult. Maybe it isn't serious in the same way cancer is, but most people still need help to overcome it. It is very destructive.

Whether it's a salvational issue, I definitely do not believe it is as scripture does not point in that direction.

 

[eddif]

Adrenalin, endorphins, are all internal hormones (whatever they are), that we find ways to become addicted to. Fear, anger, desires trigger their release. We can say we have no addictions, but anger can release our favorite body cocktail of natural God made items in a very selfish and sinful way.

I spent years in anger. I suppose I got a fix every time. At the last trump there will be no more issues with all this. The resurrection is not past yet, and Holy Spirit takes me through understanding some of what goes on. I see some of it through a fog (darkly). Most do not see their addictions: Pride, lust of the flesh, all seem different from addictions, but are they?

eddif

 

[JohnDB]

Addiction is a complicated subject.

Having one has no bearing on your salvation.

But what it does speak to is identity and psychological makeup of a person. Making it possible for them to become chemically dependant... Even upon neurotransmitters.
We see this a lot with adopted children (older).
Sure they have a new, good family but they are the same person with all kinds of baggage. They want to be good and the ideal child... But they can't.

It just takes time and effort... And consistent effort. And sure depression is going to be part of the healing process... As well as a whole lot of other things.

Keep your head up and your eyes on the prize. I got faith is you and so does Jesus. Who cares about anyone else.