iLOVE
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God awards Righteousness only on the basis of Faith in Christ and His Finished Work. Romans 4:5 NKJVIt's not our faith
The grace of God comes because my Faith is in the Cross, now the Holy Spirit can help.
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Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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God awards Righteousness only on the basis of Faith in Christ and His Finished Work. Romans 4:5 NKJVIt's not our faith
That would depend on whether a sinner truly repented, and only God would know whether there was a mere profession of faith without any substance. All we can see from Scripture is that the New Birth produces a new life in Christ, old things are passed away, behold all things have become new. It has been noted in the past that many who responded to an invitation at a public evangelistic meeting did not really show any fruits of repentance.Having one has no bearing on your salvation.
Seems I misunderstood you. Probably because I'm of the frame of mind that a person gets condemned to hell for their failure to accept the forgiveness given to us in the sacrifice of Jesus, and not because of any particular kind of sin, addiction, abuse of something, or anything else in particular. Thanks for clarifying that. I thought you were saying this would happen to Christians.No, I did not mean to say that. I was making a statement about addicts, not Christians. Let's say that if you have an addiction when you die, you may go to Hell because of it.
I think this is exactly what a lot of people don't understand, and I would think this is the difference between an obsession and an addiction. Even if the addiction isn't to a substance like a drug, but is to something else like perhaps a TV show as you mentioned earlier, a person can become so dependent on the chemical reactions from the thing they are obsessed with that it then turns into an actual physical addiction because you now need that chemical reaction to feel right and good. For a lot of people when you try to stop the thing that is giving you the pleasurable chemical reaction it can be like trying to withdraw from an actual drug. At least that's how it's been described to me by a psychologist in a class I took a while back....Addiction has as much to do with our biological functions as does something like cancer.
I wouldn't paint the entire Christian Church with such a broad brush. Just as in the non-christian area, there are ignorant people who don't or refuse to understand, and there are people who do understand. I know several Christians personally who understand and work to help addicts as a ministry....I don't know why this is such a hard concept for the church to understand. It's eternally frustrating. I think the church's "just trust God" is equivalent to the world's "just get over it". It is seriously not that simple.
Then who will be left to present your experienced side?I don't feel like anyone is minimizing conversion or repentance. And you can't just grab a scripture and decide it means whatever you want it to mean. =/
....maybe it's just best if I step out of this topic for good. If it's just myself, you can think what you like. But this topic involves other people and seeing it so mishandled upsets me greatly. I can no longer post calmly here. I'm sorry if I overstepped my bounds at any point, it's just that....
Have left the topic, but will respond to this.I wouldn't paint the entire Christian Church with such a broad brush. Just as in the non-christian area, there are ignorant people who don't or refuse to understand, and there are people who do understand. I know several Christians personally who understand and work to help addicts as a ministry.
I think anything more will just aggravate me and get me in trouble. =/Then who will be left to present your experienced side?
God awards Righteousness only on the basis of Faith in Christ and His Finished Work. Romans 4:5 NKJV
The grace of God comes because my Faith is in the Cross, now the Holy Spirit can help.
If sin has no bearing on salvation then why did the immoral fellow at Corinth have to be turned over to the destruction of the flesh in order to be saved?Addiction is a complicated subject.
Having one has no bearing on your salvation.
I believe we are agreeing.Under the new covenant Christ is our faith that we believe the finished works done on the cross as Gods grace pardons our sin even though we do not deserve it as mercy loves us unconditionally. No Christ, no faith.
Well, in all honesty I could have expressed myself a little better with a fuller explanation. In the end, no harm, no foul.Seems I misunderstood you. Probably because I'm of the frame of mind that a person gets condemned to hell for their failure to accept the forgiveness given to us in the sacrifice of Jesus, and not because of any particular kind of sin, addiction, abuse of something, or anything else in particular. Thanks for clarifying that. I thought you were saying this would happen to Christians.
Me too.I'm of the frame of mind that a person gets condemned to hell for their failure to accept the forgiveness given to us in the sacrifice of Jesus, and not because of any particular kind of sin, addiction, abuse of something, or anything else in particular.
I think we have different views on OSAS (me being on the side of OSAS and you not), but yeah, you do have an important point here. I don't know that my posts came across as saying addiction is something we should just accept as normal and okay or something, but if so, I definitely didn't mean that. Even from a secular viewpoint, it is a destructive and unhealthy, and hurtful, thing. Mine came rather close to costing me my life, even if the thing involved was innocent enough.I empathize with everyone who struggles with a sinful addiction. Note, I said 'struggles' with an addiction. But I'm really put off by Christians who think they can accept their sin and put up no struggle with it because they've rationalized in their minds that it doesn't matter in the long run if they willfully sin in this age.
I've been meaning to tell you I personally did not sense condemnation from your post. It was an important post that Christians need to read. But I can see how someone might possibly see offense in it. We Christians need to be reminded what we have been saved from, and need to stay saved from through an ongoing faith in God's forgiveness. It is that very grace that is key to the Christians victory over besetting sin. But changing God's grace into a license to stay in your besetting sin unchallenged and you still being saved is IMO denying the grace of God in Christ. The person who does that will eventually lose the grace of God's salvation. They will be turned away at the resurrection. The struggling saint continually looking for the grace of God and not accepting their sin, they are the one who will be received at the resurrection, no matter where they are at in that struggle when they die.Well, in all honesty I could have expressed myself a little better with a fuller explanation. In the end, no harm, no foul.
Yeah, I know what you're talking about. But I think things like the kind of addiction they are talking about here isn't necessarily the kind where the Christian addict accepts what he is doing is OK. I think it's more of a problem of a physical (or psychological) addiction that is controlling the Christian who tries to repent the best they can, but keeps falling backward. Sort of like Paul lamenting about how he wants to do the right thing but still struggles with doing the wrong thing at times.Me too.
A failure that is signified by an acceptance of that sin. And I think that is what Malachi is getting at. The lack of conscience when it comes to besetting sin, displayed in an acceptance of that sin, and thinking it has no bearing on salvation, these are what need to be challenged in the church today.
I did not see you doing that. Others have, here and in many other threads. Frankly, I'm sick of it.I don't know that my posts came across as saying addiction is something we should just accept as normal and okay or something, but if so, I definitely didn't mean that.
Dunno about the lack of evidence. Another member here had a lot to say about what we know about addiction and what causes it. The member was involved in ministry helping drug addicts. Wish I could remember half of what he said. Our minds share a connection to our bodies, and there are functions that can go wrong in that area just as there are with our bodies. I don't know why this is such a hard concept for the church to understand. It's eternally frustrating. I think the church's "just trust God" is equivalent to the world's "just get over it". It is seriously not that simple.
yes I believe so too. sometimes it's just in the wordingI believe we are agreeing.
The point is is that even though I prayed for years for this all to stop I never stopped long enough for the Lord to speak to me, to comfort me, to help me get rid of these thoughts as they became my addiction. There is so much truth in hearing that small still voice speak to you. The physical will always go away, but the mental part will always be with you, but through Gods help the mental part now becomes part of my testimony as it no longer controls me even though it is always present with me.