Addiction?

[evenifigoalone]

I guess at this point I'm being a little defensive, but that I'm under salvation is not something that's even a question to me.
I believed on Jesus at a very young age. I questioned God's existence as a teen, seeking God until He revealed Himself to me and I questioned no more. Reading the Bible then became an exciting experience, and the Holy Spirit showed me so much. One of the things He showed me was that I needed to change my attitude towards my parents and others, and how. I learned so, so much, and it was the most delightful experience ever.
Then later on the addiction came up. My closeness to God was gone and became guilt and despair and reading the Bible was no longer an exciting learning experience but a painful reminder. (Except for the Palms. Those were very comforting.) But even though I felt so far away I think it was God who finally got me out of the addiction. I was one of those who got it of it without seeking more knowledgeable help (other than the prayers of one friend I confided in), but that doesn't seem to be the case for most people and I think forbidding that option saying you just need to keep trusting God will only bring more pain. I'm not saying don't trust God, just that that's like telling a cancer patient to only trust God and don't even think about receiving medical treatment. Addiction has as much to do with our body systems and their design as does illness and disease, even if there is perhaps more of a choice component involved. (But then, is there? Many diseases come about because of poor lifestyle and diet choices.)
After getting out of addiction, I still had depression for a long time, but began drawing closer to God again.

Much of my response to this is indeed based on my own personal experience. I apologize for not reading the scripture provided, right now I need to go do some chores and other stuff that needs to be done before bed. But I definitely had addiction, and I was definitely under salvation. Was I in God's will, no, but I was definitely one of His.

 

[iLOVE]

God is moved by faith only! That faith must be exclusively in His Son Jesus and what He alone accomplished at Calvary. Faith in your deeds, performance, yourself, people, and anything else, etc., is sin. Why? Because it is worldliness. Worldliness means to leave God out of the equation. Worldliness voids the Cross (the power of God) immediately. Jesus says, "You can not do anything without me!" He says in Matthew 6:33, "the kingdom of God must be first and His righteousness."

 

[reba]

Any one ever met the perfect human Christian.. I can not believe some the of the self righteousness i read in this thread...
Christians are noted for shooting their wounded.. it still goes on today.. how very sad..
Can we not be like the good samaritan and show some Godly fruit...
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

 

[evenifigoalone]

Addiction has more stigma to it than other things, but from what I've read it's still considered a mental illness. (Unless it's just the physical dependence kind I guess. Again, I'm no expert.)
Those of us raised in church (like I was) or who have been to church for years know the typical church answers. If it was that simple, I promise it wouldn't be such a problem for us. There is much more involved. Was it my choice to indulge in something until my mind and reward system formed an addiction to it, sure. I own up to that. But there is a reason beyond simply our own will that it's so hard to let go of once the addiction is formed, and that's where our biological systems and the disorders they can have come in.

You hear stories in church of people being delivered from addiction in an instant, but that isn't always or usually the case. Similarly, you hear stories of people being delivered from illness and disease in a miracle, but that simply doesn't happen in most cases.

 

[Mike]

So many people who read the Bible are sure of what Paul's thorn was, and there are countless possibilities that people have been certain of. Whatever it was, he wanted it gone. He pleaded with God three times to take it away, and He didn't. When I read 2 Cor 12:7-10 and I put myself in the place of someone with an addiction, it makes so much sense.

How many addicts have pleaded with Him to remove the addiction they suffer from. I can imagine Paul desperately wanting freedom from it. Now I'M NOT saying Paul's thorn was an addiction, but maybe people should look upon people wanting free of an addiction the way we sympathize with Paul. Love them thru to recovery, and BE that grace that God gives.

 

[reba]

AMEN

 

[Lewis]

I stayed addicted off and on for 30 something years, so if you have to ask me something ask away.

 

[KevinK]

When I had my out-of-body experience, I went to the outermost layer of Hell (only). I spoke with 3-5 souls condemned there. Every single one of them suffered from some kind of addiction (drugs, alcohol, gambling, sex,...) and the addiction was why they were there.

Addiction is by nature separation from God. You are relying on something other than God. If you die with that addiction, you go to a place where God isn't there, because that's what you chose. That separation is worse than any physical pain I've ever experienced, and remember that I have fibromyalgia and migraine headaches.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I'm addicted to women.
I'm not talking about a sexual thing, I'm talking about my need to be with them and make friends with them and joke with them and hang out with them (My wife doesn't allow that but I still like the idea of doing it because I trust myself).
But my wife says she doesn't trust them so I have to go along with it.

Are you sure that's an addiction? It's actually kind of smart.
In general, I'd rather hang out with women than men, too, because we men are too consumed with trying to be bigger, badder, and better than each other. Kind of like roosters strutting around. And you're not allowed to be sensitive or vulnerable or you'll be suspected of being gay.

I'm hardly an authority on addictions, but I know from my own struggle with things that control me that the key to getting free of those things as a Christian is realizing how it affects my fellowship with the Holy Spirit. The things I do struggle with, and have struggled with, have taught me to have compassion and understanding for those who are caught up in truly dangerous and powerful addictive things.

 

[Obadiah]

When I had my out-of-body experience, I went to the outermost layer of Hell (only). I spoke with 3-5 souls condemned there. Every single one of them suffered from some kind of addiction (drugs, alcohol, gambling, sex,...) and the addiction was why they were there.

Addiction is by nature separation from God. You are relying on something other than God. If you die with that addiction, you go to a place where God isn't there, because that's what you chose. That separation is worse than any physical pain I've ever experienced, and remember that I have fibromyalgia and migraine headaches.

I think you have to be careful in what you say here. ALL SIN separates us from God if we have no forgiveness. It sounds to me like you are saying that if you have an addiction as a Christian you lose your salvation and are condemned to hell. If this is true of being addicted to something, then it is true of all sin, and none of us would have any hope of salvation. But this simply isn't the case. There is simply no sin that the forgiveness given to us through Christ isn't powerful enough to cover once we have accepted it.

 

[Wrg1405]

This is completely off topic. The reference was to Paul's conversion and his turning away from the addiction of persecuting Christians. Please note (Acts 9:20-22):
And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God. But all that heard him were amazed, and said; Is not this he that destroyed them which called on this name in Jerusalem, and came hither for that intent, that he might bring them bound unto the chief priests? But Saul increased the more in strength, and confounded the Jews which dwelt at Damascus, proving that this is very Christ.

Why is nobody reading Acts 9?

Why don't you surmise for us.

 

[Wrg1405]

Think about. Why would addiction take root AFTER a person becomes a Christian? Does that make any spiritual sense?

Why not?

 

[for_his_glory]

This is completely off topic. The reference was to Paul's conversion and his turning away from the addiction of persecuting Christians. Please note (Acts 9:20-22):
And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God. But all that heard him were amazed, and said; Is not this he that destroyed them which called on this name in Jerusalem, and came hither for that intent, that he might bring them bound unto the chief priests? But Saul increased the more in strength, and confounded the Jews which dwelt at Damascus, proving that this is very Christ.

Why is nobody reading Acts 9?

Seriously, you think 2Corinthians 12:9 has nothing to do with the topic! The things in Paul's flesh were his addictions because he was under false pretenses and unknowingly was following Satan instead of God. If Gods grace is not sufficient then how do we expect God to help us with our addictions. Acts 9 has nothing to do with any type of addiction as even when we are converted, become born again, many still have no knowledge at the time of their conversion and are weak and prone to fall into addictions as many of us have done. Does it mean we are not of God when this happens, no, it just means in our lack of knowledge we have not yet learned the power of the Holy Spirit that now dwells in us at the time of conversion. Paul's experience at his conversion is very different then others as it was Jesus that actually spoke to him and gave him visions. From the time of Paul until present day I have never heard of any other conversion like that of Paul's so yes Gods grace is sufficient.

 

[for_his_glory]

God is moved by faith only! That faith must be exclusively in His Son Jesus and what He alone accomplished at Calvary. Faith in your deeds, performance, yourself, people, and anything else, etc., is sin. Why? Because it is worldliness. Worldliness means to leave God out of the equation. Worldliness voids the Cross (the power of God) immediately. Jesus says, "You can not do anything without me!" He says in Matthew 6:33, "the kingdom of God must be first and His righteousness."

It's not our faith, but faith that is Christ Jesus in whom we believe He is the Son of God. We are weak and without much knowledge when we first come to Christ and through our weakness in the flesh we can allow ourselves to fall, but yet we are received by Christ and as babes we learn how to crawl before we can walk.

Rom 14:1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.
Rom 14:2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
Rom 14:3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
Rom 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

 

[Malachi]

Seriously, you think 2Corinthians 12:9 has nothing to do with the topic! The things in Paul's flesh were his addictions because he was under false pretenses and unknowingly was following Satan instead of God.

Wow! This is the first time I have heard anyone accuse Paul of acting under false pretenses and following Satan. That is so off-base it staggers the imagination. Here is a man who laboured, suffered, travelled and established churches throughout the Roman empire more than any other apostles, and you come along and make such a ridiculous allegation?

Those claiming that Paul's "thorn in the flesh" was an addiction are treading on very thin ice, since there is absolutely no scriptural support for such an outrageous accusation. It was an AFFLICTION NOT AN ADDICTION.

...Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong. (2 Cor 12:9,10).

 

[Malachi]

Why don't you surmise for us.

It's really quite simple. Saul of Tarsus, one of the most zealous Pharisees in existence, made it his life's mission -- his addiction -- to destroy Christians and Christianity.

He met Christ on the road to Damascus, he repented and was converted and baptized, and within days of his baptism, HIS ADDICTION WAS REPLACED with zeal for Christ and for the Gospel.

Lesson: Addictions are left behind when the Holy Spirit enters the sinner. If you are still not convinced, study the conversion of Zacchaeus.

 

[for_his_glory]

Wow! This is the first time I have heard anyone accuse Paul of acting under false pretenses and following Satan. That is so off-base it staggers the imagination. Here is a man who laboured, suffered, travelled and established churches throughout the Roman empire more than any other apostles, and you come along and make such a ridiculous allegation?

Those claiming that Paul's "thorn in the flesh" was an addiction are treading on very thin ice, since there is absolutely no scriptural support for such an outrageous accusation. It was an AFFLICTION NOT AN ADDICTION.

...Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong. (2 Cor 12:9,10).

I was talking about those things Paul did before his Damascus conversion. Be slow to read and slower to respond as when one knows nothing about addictions because they have never experienced them then they can only speculate. In Paul's mind he thought he was killing Christians in the name of God. Who did Satan use to instilled that into his brain, but that of Satan's messenger.

 

[evenifigoalone]

I think it a stretch to call Paul's actions before his conversion an addiction. It was a religious conviction, which can be very powerful. That's not under the same category as what we call addiction.
I did read Acts 9 before going to bed. It’s a historical account rather than a doctrinal statement, so I also feel like it’s a stretch to say it speaks everything there is to know about conversion, or that it illustrates that believers cannot fall into sin after conversion. Or even that old tendencies can never worm their way back into the believer’s life again.

If you wish to argue that believers cannot fall into addiction at any point after salvation, you would need to illustrate that scripture dictates that believers cannot commit sin.

 

[Malachi]

What was Paul's "thorn in the flesh"? Since Paul speaks of "infirmities" in this connection, it was some kind of PHYSICAL INFIRMITY. Many conservative and reliable scholars and commentators have surmised that because Paul was blinded on the road to Damascus his eyesight was affected seriously. In one of his letters he alludes to the fact that some Christians would have given their eyes in exchange for his. In another epistle he refers to the large letters with which he signs his name. Therefore this could very well be the affliction which "buffeted" him. Perhaps Satan caused his sight to become even weaker and made him impatient with his disability.

 

[Malachi]

If you wish to argue that believers cannot fall into addiction at any point after salvation, you would need to illustrate that scripture dictates that believers cannot commit sin.

Falling into sin and being addicted to some sinful habit or behavior are really two different things. Christians can sin, and also fall. But that is not the same thing.