Bible Study alcohol and sin

[John the Baptist]

Exactly, what you refer to is true, 'spiritually drunk'. This is symbolic, not literal.

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John here:
But friend, can you not see the type emplied? Read Isaiah 28:7-10 for at least a three part 'spiritual' lesson! Compare verse 1. (K.J.)
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John, it is VERY possible for MANY to have a glass of 'alcoholic' wine with their meals and NOT get drunk. YES, there will be a slight 'effect' from the alcohol, but not so much that one becomes 'drunken'.

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And still be a 'knowlegeable' Born Again Christian? Hardly! (ignorant? as in Matthew 25's foolish, surely) It sounds like a little moderation of anything is ok, huh? You name the 'SIN'? Surely John, you say: 'YES, there will be a slight effect from alcohol ..' :o (how about a little sex outside of marriage, in moderation, huh? you know the comparison in Revelation 17:2)
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I am NOT advocating someone's becoming an alcoholic or becoming drunk. I am simply offering that Christ Himself drank wine on occasion and that there was NOTHING WRONG with this. So long as one places wine or other alcohol in it's proper perspective. MODERATION is the key. Abstenation for some no doubt. And I obviously shouldn't offer alcohol to one that has a problem with it, (cause that brother to stumble). But for someone to teach that which is NOT written in the Word simply because they 'personally' don't see the possibilities that there are those that can drink responsibly is unfair.

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Come on, get R-E-A-L! Causing your weak brother to stumble??? Are you jesting with yourself?? There are millions of kids that are D-E-A-D by this satanic example set by professed knowledable Christians!! (and some are of their own, or perhaps will be?) This is what satan's game is all about! And NO you are flat out wrong about the sinless one making anything sinful & drinking it!! Not even the vinegar that came from fermented stuff! John 19:29-30
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I've read the scripture that you offer. What I understand from my reading of it is that ALL that you refer to is warning not to let alcohol become a 'stumbling block'. I see reference to the negative effects of 'drunkenness'. I see warnings against 'drunkenness'. But I see and understand NOTHING that forbids the use of wine, simply warnings that we are not to let it get the best of us.

Everything that God created on this planet was/is good. It's the imaginations of our hearts that can turn something 'good' into something 'bad'. All things with thanksgiving remember?

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Whatever?? But you are talking of something that the devil & his SIN made, not Christ or the Godhead! There is a substance called 'milk', do you drink it when it is warm & very old? And then perhaps you use this 'imagination of our hearts' for eating the decayed things that buzzards eat? Even the clean meat of the cow.
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And 'grape juice' is what is used to create wine. Grape juice is not wine. 'New' wine is obviously something that contained alcohol as well. As we read in Acts: the people accused the apostles of being 'drunk' with new wine. Hard to get drunk on 'grape juice'.

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Now you are teaching clearly against, what the Proverbs 23:31 verse calls WINE!
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[Imagican]

John,

In order to keep this in perspective, let's examine these verses:

29 Who hath woe? who hath sorrow? who hath contentions? who hath

babbling? who hath wounds without cause? who hath redness of eyes?

30 They that tarry long at the wine; they that go to seek mixed wine.

31 Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright.

32 At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder.

It appears to me that what is offered here is exactly what I have been trying to offer. 'To tarry long' would be to spend 'much time' drinking. Also, 'to tarry long' would indicate drinking for the 'sake of drinking' or 'to get drunk'. A totally different prospect than one having 'some wine' with their meal. or even a glass or two at a 'special occasion'.

This whole passage is obviously warning those that would choose to 'follow' alcohol what they are to expect. Follow or 'chase after or make it an 'idol'.

I don't know what your experience is with alcohol, John, but I can attest to the 'fact' that 'two glasses' of wine do not, my eyes red, make. Nor do I get a 'hangover' from a couple of glasses. I don't start 'babbling', nor do I go out looking for a 'fight'. As I can also attest, these offerings in Psalms are NO secret to anyone that ever has 'overindulged'. Not a good thing, thus: the warning.

And no where in this Psalm is 'having a drink' condemned. Drunkenness, certainly, but 'having a glass of wine?' Certainly not. All in it's proper perspective. If you worship wine, (alcohol), then you are certainly setting yourself up for sorrow. But as Paul stated, (and I believe that he was referring to the 'pleasure' involved; pleasing effect, and pleasant taste), to have a 'little' wine for thy 'stomach's sake'.

And let me ask you this: Do you reckon Noah will end up in heaven or hell? NO, I am not condoning nor encouraging drunkenness. I am simply curious as to what you think one's punishment will be upon judgement if they were drunkards.

I am quite sure that God frowns upon ANYTHING that man decides to 'worship' other than that which is worthy. Alcohol is CERTAINLY not worthy of worship. However, the degree to which one would be condemned for alcohol abuse would probably involve their 'behavior' surrounding their abuse of alcohol more so than the abuse of alcohol itself. If you were a drunk that liked to 'fight' when drinking, or if you allowed yourself to 'do things' under the influence that you shouldn't, if you were to 'steal' to obtain it, abuse your wife, children or others under the influence, in general, if you allow alcohol to interfere with your 'walk', then YES, by all means, it's NOT a proper thing to do.

But otherwise responsible and God fearing 'drinkers' should not abstain simply because it is 'wrong' to drink. It's ONLY wrong if done without proper perspective and even then, I doubt seriously that it's judged as harshly as some would indicate, (the drinking itself). The behavior of a drunk is what makes 'drunkenness' so negative. Just DON'T get drunk.

And if you have an addictive personality, perhaps it WOULD be best not to test your ability to drink responsibly. As an enhancement to a meal and to liven ones spirit, alcohol is the 'perfect' material prescription. As a means to 'self-medicate' or 'to worship' or 'live for', it is a perfect recipe for disaster. But then, not even the 'love of alcohol' is the 'root' of all evil. Anything that one physically abuses is negative to the spirit and negative to ones soul. All in it's proper perspective.

God does NOT want mindless puppets. His love for us is immense. Because of His love, I promise you that He wants you to 'be happy'. NOT at the expense of others or by worshipping 'idols', but He certainly doesn't expect us to be 'MONKS', (and even they drink a 'little'? wine at times, he he he). Not much different than sex. The pleasure in it is there for a reason. Just because there are those that would abuse it doesn't mean that it's wrong for those doing it 'right' and enjoying it. Remember? Proper perspective.........