Alcohol in Heaven

[Elijah674]

The wine in Numbers 6:3 is

H3196
???
yayin
yah'-yin
From an unused root meaning to effervesce; wine (as fermented); by implication intoxication: - banqueting, wine, wine [-bibber].

All of the drinking parts of the Nazarite vow had to do with alcohol.

Actually there are two distinct types of wine drinking in Num. 6:3.

Num 6:3 He shall separate himself from wine and strong drink, and shall drink no vinegar of wine, or vinegar of strong drink, neither shall he drink any liquor of grapes, nor eat moist grapes, or dried.

1) wine and strong drink, and 2) drink any liquor of grapes. That word "liquor" means "steeped juice." Grape juice in other words.

Liquor
H4952
?????
mishrâh
mish-raw'
From H8281 in the sense of loosening; maceration, that is, steeped juice: - liquor.

This is about alcohol. Maceration is a process in wine making. Steeping is used to make alcohol also.

"Maceration is the winemaking process where the phenolic materials of the grape— tannins, coloring agents (anthocyanins) and flavor compounds— are leached from the grape skins, seeds and stems into the must. The term is usually used in reference to wine, but is sometimes used with other drinks, such as pio?unówka, Campari and crème de cassis. It is also the term used to describe the process of steeping unflavored spirit with herbs for making herb-based alcohol like Absinthe."

http://www.goldmedalwine.com/member_ben ... wizard.php
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maceration_(wine)
http://tastesofthevalleys.com/wineterms.html

The intent was clearly that Nazarites (and Israelites) shouldn't be under the influence.

Num 6:3 He shall separate himself from wine and strong drink, and shall drink no vinegar of wine, or vinegar of strong drink, neither shall he drink any liquor of grapes, nor eat moist grapes, or dried.

Lev 10:9 Do not drink wine nor strong drink, thou, nor thy sons with thee, when ye go into the tabernacle of the congregation, lest ye die: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations:

Isa 28:1 Woe to the crown of pride, to the drunkards of Ephraim, whose glorious beauty is a fading flower, which are on the head of the fat valleys of them that are overcome with wine!

Isa 28:7 But they also have erred through wine, and through strong drink are out of the way; the priest and the prophet have erred through strong drink, they are swallowed up of wine, they are out of the way through strong drink; they err in vision, they stumble in judgment.

There isn't enough in the Num 6 verses to say God was talking about non-alcoholic consumption. The KJV translators most likely had "liquor" right. It's in keeping with the context.

I guess the words "steeped juice" were a little too descriptive.

Macerate means to: "to cause to waste away by or as if by excessive fasting" and is related to the process of making raisins. What you seem to be missing again researcher (lack of research I guess) is that if "liquor of grapes" meant anything other than grape juice then the verse is rendered repetitive and thus inconsequential. For example, for "strong drink" we see that shekar (shay-kawr') is used and it means: an intoxicant, i.e. intensely alcoholic liquor. So we see "wine" and "strong drink" used to denote drinking alcohol.

Mishrah doesn't mean "alcoholic" liquor, shekar does.

I think this goes to a greater understanding frankly about wine and alcohol in the Bible. There is no comparison in this section of Numbers 6 to the easy access today to beer, wine, or vodka every day of the week and from every 7-11 or supermarket as we see in our society today. It's every where and it cannot be shaken. It is far more prevalent and considerably more dangerous than at anytime in earth's history.

I hope we can agree on this point.

Being a drunkard in this history of the Bible was not an easy habit; addiction was unlikely for all but the richest and most powerful and this fits in with the warnings in Proverbs to kings. The easy access to cheap alcohol in our time sharpens the dire warnings of the Bible and makes them much more difficult to ignore.

Addiction is far easier to fall prey to. The dangers of getting behind the wheel, even with just one drink in the system, are the things that shattered families and lives attest to.

In the Nazarite vow any type of product that the grape vine produced was off limits during the period of the vow. This was explained to you and I think you know it. When I explained to you the real meaning behind Luke 7:30-35 you choose instead to divert and focus in inconsequential things quite frankly - "majoring in the minors" I think it's called.

But as I said, nothing I can say will change your mind because you have to justify yourself and your behavior by trying to get scripture to say something it does not.

Jesus never drank alcohol and the scriptures bear this out.

False. SDA doctrine.

But as I said, nothing I can say will change your mind because you have to justify yourself and your behavior by trying to get scripture to say something it does not.

False. Attempt to bring into bondage.

1Co 10:23 All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not.

Gal 2:4 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:

The Eternal Law of God is BONDAGE TO YOU???
---Elijah

 

[RND]

Why are so many attack posts that are completely unrelated to the topic allowed here? Last time I looked this thread was about "Alcohol in Heaven" which I think we can conclude won't contain alcohol and not about the beginnings and beliefs of the Seventh-day Adventist church?

I think that if someone wants to discuss these topics they should start a separate thread.

 

[Panin]

[quote="researcher

The day you do the miracles of the Old and New Testaments like I do, and God talks to you like he did to the prophets, kings and apostles like he does me, then maybe I'll be concerned. But since God has spoken to me audibly and literally, and I have done the miracles Jesus and the apostles and prophets have done, things which you apparently have never experienced, I can't justify worrying over your mind's (or your denomination's) interpretation of things written in scripture. It would be illogical for a spiritual person to adhere to a non-spiritual person's way of thinking. The two go together like oil an water. :yes

[/quote]
I have never experinced any of these things either, prey tell, what miracles have you done and what proof do you have. And where you under the influence of alcohol at the time?

 

[researcher]

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Mar 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
Mar 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

 

[Panin]

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Mar 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
Mar 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

Thanks for sharing your testimony, awesome stuff, especially the Mall incident.

That said. I dont think you really need to defend your right to drink so vigilantly, it's not a lot of use to the body. If you can drink alcohol without getting hammered, good luck to you, but frankly, I cant really see the point of alcohol at all, unless of course the desire is to get hammered. I would rather have a glass of milk with food, than a glass of something that tastes like cats urine.

In conclusion and more in keeping with the OP, if there is alcohol in heaven and getting hammered is allowed, I'll be doing it.

 

[researcher]

Thanks for sharing your testimony, awesome stuff, especially the Mall incident.

That said. I dont think you really need to defend your right to drink so vigilantly, it's not a lot of use to the body. If you can drink alcohol without getting hammered, good luck to you, but frankly, I cant really see the point of alcohol at all, unless of course the desire is to get hammered. I would rather have a glass of milk with food, than a glass of something that tastes like cats urine.

In conclusion and more in keeping with the OP, if there is alcohol in heaven and getting hammered is allowed, I'll be doing it.

Thank you, Panin.

It's less about alcohol, more about freedom I believe. If there is alcohol in heaven, I suppose we will be able to drink and fly. lol. ;)

 

[Panin]

Thanks for sharing your testimony, awesome stuff, especially the Mall incident.

That said. I dont think you really need to defend your right to drink so vigilantly, it's not a lot of use to the body. If you can drink alcohol without getting hammered, good luck to you, but frankly, I cant really see the point of alcohol at all, unless of course the desire is to get hammered. I would rather have a glass of milk with food, than a glass of something that tastes like cats urine.

In conclusion and more in keeping with the OP, if there is alcohol in heaven and getting hammered is allowed, I'll be doing it.

Thank you, Panin.

It's less about alcohol, more about freedom I believe. If there is alcohol in heaven, I suppose we will be able to drink and fly. lol. ;)

I know where your coming from, if I was not an alcoholic, I would be supping a cold one right now.

 

[LaCrum]

If you can drink alcohol without getting hammered, good luck to you, but frankly, I cant really see the point of alcohol at all, unless of course the desire is to get hammered. I would rather have a glass of milk with food, than a glass of something that tastes like cats urine.

First, when we speak about alcohol in Heaven, are we speaking about Heaven pre-Second Coming, or Heaven on Earth post-second coming?

Second, there are some very tasty beers and wine out there, and they don't taste anything like cat urine. And it is possible to just have one glass, heck, we have our weekly Bible Study at a pub. But it also depends on where you live, in Oregon, it's very common for people to go out and have beer together without getting drunk. That's why I usually drink beer because after just one I'm too full to drink anymore.

 

[Panin]

If you can drink alcohol without getting hammered, good luck to you, but frankly, I cant really see the point of alcohol at all, unless of course the desire is to get hammered. I would rather have a glass of milk with food, than a glass of something that tastes like cats urine.

First, when we speak about alcohol in Heaven, are we speaking about Heaven pre-Second Coming, or Heaven on Earth post-second coming?

Second, there are some very tasty beers and wine out there, and they don't taste anything like cat urine. And it is possible to just have one glass, heck, we have our weekly Bible Study at a pub. But it also depends on where you live, in Oregon, it's very common for people to go out and have beer together without getting drunk. That's why I usually drink beer because after just one I'm too full to drink anymore.

Its not possible to have just one if your an alcoholic, no. An alcohloic must stay away form the first drink. No offense, but if you are not an alcoholic you will never understand, and you dont really need to either I guess. Just be thankful you arent one. Hey lots of folk clealry enjoy wine. I never did.

There may be some that taste nice, but in all my years of trying to aquire the taste to enjoy wine, and it was many years and many mnay attempts, I didn't find one that was pleasant to taste, but they all had the same alcoholic effect, which was all I was after. I only drank wine when I was already drunk. Most of it tastes like sick burps to me.

Are we talking heaven in the clouds or on earth??. DOnt know.

Happy Christmas.

If I belonged to your church I would not be bable to attend a bible study in a pub, thats tres bizzar bro. You must be the funky cool hip Christians. Good luck with that

If you hang around the barbers your gonna get a haircut.

 

[RND]

If you hang around the barbers your gonna get a haircut.

I wonder how many folk would insist Jesus turned water in fermented wine if there was the slightest chance one of the women at the wedding celebration at Cana might have been pregnant?

 

[Panin]

If you hang around the barbers your gonna get a haircut.

I wonder how many folk would insist Jesus turned water in fermented wine if there was the slightest chance one of the women at the wedding celebration at Cana might have been pregnant?

Good point

 

[RND]

If you hang around the barbers your gonna get a haircut.

I wonder how many folk would insist Jesus turned water in fermented wine if there was the slightest chance one of the women at the wedding celebration at Cana might have been pregnant?

Good point

I have appreciated the POV you have brought to this thread as well.

 

[Panin]

Nice of you to say. Thank you.

 

[ChevyRodeo]

Psalm 104

14He causeth the grass to grow for the cattle, and herb for the service of man: that he may bring forth food out of the earth;

15And wine that maketh glad the heart of man, and oil to make his face to shine, and bread which strengtheneth man's heart.



God causes Wine, specifically wine that makes people glad ;) God cannot cause sin. This verse is asserting that the fermentation of sugar by yeast, resulting in alcohol, is a miracle of God, along with grass growing, seeds germination.

 

[RND]

Psalm 104

14He causeth the grass to grow for the cattle, and herb for the service of man: that he may bring forth food out of the earth;

15And wine that maketh glad the heart of man, and oil to make his face to shine, and bread which strengtheneth man's heart.



God causes Wine, specifically wine that makes people glad ;) God cannot cause sin. This verse is asserting that the fermentation of sugar by yeast, resulting in alcohol, is a miracle of God, along with grass growing, seeds germination.

The assumption is that the word "wine" here always refers to fermented wine.

"...that he may bring forth food out of the earth;"

Is alcohol a food?

 

[Panin]

Psalm 104

15And wine that maketh glad the heart of man, and oil to make his face to shine, and bread which strengtheneth man's heart.

Alcohol affects the brain and the blood stream, it actually makes the body instantly turn into a machine to rid itself of the alcohol. I agree this scripture could easily be interpreted to mean alcoholic wine, but good food and refreshing drink makes the heart glad, not neccessarily alcohol.

I'm pretty sure Alcohol weakens the heart too.

Also how much alcohol, precisiely, makes the heart glad prior to it unleashing all manner of hell on earth and breaking hearts?

 

[jasoncran]

not mention if done way in excess distending organs(pickling) ie beer gut and stomach cancer and alcoholism has been like to the mental disorder bi-polar.

jason

 

[ChevyRodeo]

Psalm 104

14He causeth the grass to grow for the cattle, and herb for the service of man: that he may bring forth food out of the earth;

15And wine that maketh glad the heart of man, and oil to make his face to shine, and bread which strengtheneth man's heart.



God causes Wine, specifically wine that makes people glad ;) God cannot cause sin. This verse is asserting that the fermentation of sugar by yeast, resulting in alcohol, is a miracle of God, along with grass growing, seeds germination.

The assumption is that the word "wine" here always refers to fermented wine.

"...that he may bring forth food out of the earth;"

Is alcohol a food?

Alcohol is a food in the sense it has energy our bodies can use (calories) in fact is a very good FOOD. it has 7 calories per gram. Carbs and Protein only have 4 calories per gram. Alcohol is very energy dense, and its basically what keeps some homeless people alive, you can easily drink 800 calories of it since its just a liquid.

Is it more practical to assume wine is Alcoholic or none alcoholic by the standards of that era?

 

[ChevyRodeo]

Also how much alcohol, precisiely, makes the heart glad prior to it unleashing all manner of hell on earth and breaking hearts?

That logic implies that alcohol, an inanimate object, has a cognition of its own, that over takes yours to force you to do in evil things.

Two different people can drink from the same bottle and behave very differently. Why is it that some people beat their wife? While others just get sleepy and go to bed? The person is bad, not the bottle. People are responsible for their actions.

 

[ChevyRodeo]

not mention if done way in excess distending organs(pickling) ie beer gut and stomach cancer and alcoholism has been like to the mental disorder bi-polar.

jason

Drink a gallon of water in 15 minutes and you will die. Sneeze and you will kill brain cells. Anything in excess is bad, and that is not the point, jason. I agree that addiction/ alcoholism is not of God but to fault a can of beer because of the actions of others , or the links to cancer when abuses is the SAME as saying I cant eat a cheeseburger because it could lead me to obesity or raised cholesterol.