R
Rick W
Guest
You have heard of Jesus and reject Him. For you there is no excuse.
Besides, it's not us you need to convince.
Besides, it's not us you need to convince.
Christian Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
-
-
Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
Am I to forgive one who doesn't ask for it?
- Thread starter Orion
- Start date
christian_soldier
Member
I don't know about the rest of you, but I feel set up by the OP.
Orion, having read through the entire thread, I find the post disingenuous, at best.
Folks here poured out their personal testimonies, undoubtedly reliving some hurt to a certain degree, to try and give you a meaningful answer.
Now, before I continue, though you haven't had a chance to ask for forgiveness from me, I forgive you. The difference between God's forgiveness of us, and our forgiveness of others is, in the latter case, forgiveness is for the benefit of the forgiver, not the forgiven. For me to harbor ill feelings towards anyone harms only me.
Back to my point...you appear to have posed a question, not seeking Truth, but to set the stage to air your own grievances with God.
Please forgive me if I am mistaken.
Orion, having read through the entire thread, I find the post disingenuous, at best.
Folks here poured out their personal testimonies, undoubtedly reliving some hurt to a certain degree, to try and give you a meaningful answer.
Now, before I continue, though you haven't had a chance to ask for forgiveness from me, I forgive you. The difference between God's forgiveness of us, and our forgiveness of others is, in the latter case, forgiveness is for the benefit of the forgiver, not the forgiven. For me to harbor ill feelings towards anyone harms only me.
Back to my point...you appear to have posed a question, not seeking Truth, but to set the stage to air your own grievances with God.
Please forgive me if I am mistaken.
.
We can't forget, but we can forgive. Forgiveness is the covering that Lord God gave to me to place over those awful memories of abuse and being taken for granted. I choose to forgive my abuser. I choose to forgive those who have taken me for granted. I choose to forgive. The haunting memories come back (satan makes sure of that) , but the forgiveness I choose is a spiritual weapon I have been given by the Lord God to use against the offense. I accept HIS Forgiveness! It's my choice to affirm the work in progress. His Holy Spirit IS at work IN forgiveness. Take it in and make it yours. You have not because you ask amis. Take on the things of the Holy Spirit. Knock and the door shall be opened. It's a choice. And if it doesn't seem to be working in the flesh, KNOW that It IS working through the HOLY SPIRIT IN you. If you don't believe, then.... you are not choosing to believe. Trust is also a choice. It doesn't have to "feel" right. You just have to KNOW it IS the RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD AT WORK. IN HIS TIME! Not Yours. Learn what that Righteousness is, as stated in the scripture and take it on as HIS undeniable TRUTH. Choose.
Don't you know, a man is whatever he believes? If you choose doubt, you will be a doubter! If you choose to trust His Holiness, you will be trusting.
It's just too Simple. and if you make confusion and doubt your choice, then that's what you'll be, a confused doubter. We are to obey and trust in God. Not disobey or doubt. It doesn't work if you don't work it. God is not going to make you a robot, He gives you a choice.
Many times we need to remind ourselves when doubt enters in, we need only look to HIS truth. Not the confusions of satan.
I gain my strength by holding onto verses that pertain to the particular issue. The Lord gives you weapons against the whiles of the devil, the whole armour of God are your tools of the Holy Spirit. Use them! If you don't use them you are not of God. What is your spirit made of? Carnal thinking or Holy Spirit thinking? Make up your mind and stop doubting the Holiness of God.
I have been attacked and abused all too often. I turn to the Word of God to help me overcome the offenses of others. Offenses will come. If you don't forgive, you will then have chosen to be in subjection to the spirit which is that of the oppression of un-forgiveness. It is a spirit of bondage and it takes away your sense of freedom, if you allow unforgiveness to continue to fester inside of you. Un-forgiveness is a tool of the devil. Cast off the devil with the Holy Word of God. Trust it. It is a choice.
.
.
We can't forget, but we can forgive. Forgiveness is the covering that Lord God gave to me to place over those awful memories of abuse and being taken for granted. I choose to forgive my abuser. I choose to forgive those who have taken me for granted. I choose to forgive. The haunting memories come back (satan makes sure of that) , but the forgiveness I choose is a spiritual weapon I have been given by the Lord God to use against the offense. I accept HIS Forgiveness! It's my choice to affirm the work in progress. His Holy Spirit IS at work IN forgiveness. Take it in and make it yours. You have not because you ask amis. Take on the things of the Holy Spirit. Knock and the door shall be opened. It's a choice. And if it doesn't seem to be working in the flesh, KNOW that It IS working through the HOLY SPIRIT IN you. If you don't believe, then.... you are not choosing to believe. Trust is also a choice. It doesn't have to "feel" right. You just have to KNOW it IS the RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD AT WORK. IN HIS TIME! Not Yours. Learn what that Righteousness is, as stated in the scripture and take it on as HIS undeniable TRUTH. Choose.
Don't you know, a man is whatever he believes? If you choose doubt, you will be a doubter! If you choose to trust His Holiness, you will be trusting.
It's just too Simple. and if you make confusion and doubt your choice, then that's what you'll be, a confused doubter. We are to obey and trust in God. Not disobey or doubt. It doesn't work if you don't work it. God is not going to make you a robot, He gives you a choice.
Many times we need to remind ourselves when doubt enters in, we need only look to HIS truth. Not the confusions of satan.
I gain my strength by holding onto verses that pertain to the particular issue. The Lord gives you weapons against the whiles of the devil, the whole armour of God are your tools of the Holy Spirit. Use them! If you don't use them you are not of God. What is your spirit made of? Carnal thinking or Holy Spirit thinking? Make up your mind and stop doubting the Holiness of God.
I have been attacked and abused all too often. I turn to the Word of God to help me overcome the offenses of others. Offenses will come. If you don't forgive, you will then have chosen to be in subjection to the spirit which is that of the oppression of un-forgiveness. It is a spirit of bondage and it takes away your sense of freedom, if you allow unforgiveness to continue to fester inside of you. Un-forgiveness is a tool of the devil. Cast off the devil with the Holy Word of God. Trust it. It is a choice.
.
.
R
Rick W
Guest
Relic said:
:smt023
A pastor in Salt Lake City said many times over... "You better know that you know that you know you are saved. If not then you'd best get down on your knees and beg for mercy."
I believe that.
It's a hard statement for many people evidenced by the multitudes of posts I've seen against that truth. You either know or you don't. "Not quite sure" isn't going to cut it.
Quath said:
I know you don't believe the existence of God nor Jesus Christ as Savior. I don't know if you believe life after death but I doubt that you do.
"Reject" or "not accept" yields the same result.
One day you'll stand before the Lord to give account of yourself. Thing is you'll have to plead your case yourself against Satan your accuser and judgment will be passed. Your sin will convict you for nothing will be hidden.
You don't fear judgment nor God since you believe there will be no judgment, or God, or Christ. You don't fear God in any case. You haven't cursed God directly but you've tried to make Him a murderer, and a liar. That means nothing to you since in your mind He doesn't exist anyway. No harm can be done by something that doesn't exist.
You've been here over 4 years and we seem to go over the same things again and again. Nobody here can give you the proof you want and nobody here can change your mind or your heart. That's between you and the non-existent Lord.
[worldly logic]
If faith in Christ is right then we're ok and you're not. If you're right and we're wrong then we're still ok. If the faith is wrong and another religion is right then we're all in for a bad time of it... and so are you.
[/worldly logic]
Your future hinges on God not being there at all. And that's it. But If He is there...
Yes, I know brimstone and fire will do nothing. All we can do is pray to God that someday you'll "Know that you know that you know". In any case I wouldn't mind seeing you dressed in white. It's a lovely color.
I don't think they do. For example, I reject and not accept this "gift" because I don't think it is real. An African who never heard of Jesus just doesn't accept the "gift" because they do not even know of an offer. They do not reject the offer.Potluck said:
The wording has profound theological consequences. If the correct working is "not accept" then this African is spending eternity being tortured in hell because he had the bad luck to be born in a place that never received the Word. If the correct wording is "reject" then Christianity is spreading torment. If Christianity disappeared so noone knew of the "gift" then everyone goes to heaven.
I agree. I am not here looking for reasons to convert. I am more interested in how people believe and what it implies. So for example, the Bible has a command that says to go out and kill homosexuals. Yet Christians don't do that anymore. Instead they just try to restrict what they can do legally. So I try to understand how the change happens; where it will lead; how unified Christians are in this; and how stable the results are. It is not just homosexuality. I am interested in similar things about science education, stem cell research, reproductive rights, etc.
I guess the way I would break it down is that if there is a god, then which of the hundreds or thousands of version of him is real? If I pick Mormonism, then I may have doomed myself with Allah, Vishnu, Odin, Zeus or another version of Christianity. I would hate to think that salvation is a crap shoot.
And both of our futures hinge on there not being Allah, Vishnu, Thor, Ra or Gozer the Gozerian.
By the time we list out all the possibilities out, you may have a 1 in a billion chance of being right and I have a 1 in a billion+1 chance of being right.
R
Rick W
Guest
We're both rather predictable huh?
:-D
:-D
What Quath is saying is very true. However, none of us will know for absolute certain.
I've always looked at it this way. We don't have all of the information to REALLY make a wise decision. And I don't think that "Faith" itself is enough. Because the muslim has "Faith" in Allah. The hindu has "Faith" in Kali. The egyptians had "Faith" in Ra, Horus, Isis, etc. . . .
I would think that IF there was an absolute truth, then there would probably not be so many different paths to follow in the first place. Think of it this way, . . . . what would make a person/culture reject a God of "absolute truth and love"? I don't care how rebellious we are, no one would really refuse such a being and trade it for something unreal.
Most earthly fathers have a level of truth and love about them and their offspring love them until death. They have respect and admiration quite often. Some rebel, sure, but most come back after they grow up. I just don't think that we are THAT proned to rebellion like we're said to be. :-?
I've always looked at it this way. We don't have all of the information to REALLY make a wise decision. And I don't think that "Faith" itself is enough. Because the muslim has "Faith" in Allah. The hindu has "Faith" in Kali. The egyptians had "Faith" in Ra, Horus, Isis, etc. . . .
I would think that IF there was an absolute truth, then there would probably not be so many different paths to follow in the first place. Think of it this way, . . . . what would make a person/culture reject a God of "absolute truth and love"? I don't care how rebellious we are, no one would really refuse such a being and trade it for something unreal.
Most earthly fathers have a level of truth and love about them and their offspring love them until death. They have respect and admiration quite often. Some rebel, sure, but most come back after they grow up. I just don't think that we are THAT proned to rebellion like we're said to be. :-?
This is a truth you assume based on faith. There are billions of such beliefs possible and each one can say they are true and all others are false. You are proposing a circular argument: God is real because God is real.Relic said:
God does not prove other gods false unless he really proves it. Right now, all we have is a bunch of humans claiming that God is real. Once God really does prove he exists then your argument has merit.
As an aside, why are you leaving out the vowels sometimes? That was something the priests did to remind them not to speak the name "Yehweh" (or whetever the real name is suppose to be) out loud. It technically could be written, just nit spoken unless it was in an official ceremony. Are you doing something similar or just following some convention I am not aware of?
.
:o For a person who takes claim to being a Christian, You sound like Quath. :-?
What Quath is saying is NOT TRUE. And yes, all of will know know absolutely for certain, that JHVH GD IS the ONE AND ONLY GOD. OMNISCIENT, OMNIPOTENT, OMNIPRESENT. You have just preferred to believe the one who brings doubt and confusion.
It would serve you well to read your bible from the perspective of seeing how JHVH GD laments the times people turn their backs on Him and look to sin instead of His Holiness/His Purity/His offering of Grace and Mercy. The LORD GOD laments over people who turn away from Him. It Grieves the Holy Spirit to see the choices people make, when they better choice is to choose that which is sacred in the eyes of OUR HOLY GOD.
When you read the bible looking to see the nurturing side of the Lord God, you see from a different perspective. You see a Loving parental figure who seeks to protect His creation from harm, and you see a Loving parental figure who grieves the lost spirits who turn against all He has to offer.
If you can't accept the fact that there are consequences too ALL action, then you are ignoring the fact that ALL THINGS have an absolute law of order assigned to them. We can manipulate those laws, but we cannot get away from the consequences of manipulating the Natural Laws as God set them to be. Change the order of a thing and you get a hybrid, a perversion of what God intended. It's your choice. Choose to go against the Will of His Holiness for us, and you will remain a doubter, you will remain closed minded to the many Characteristics of a LOVING Father God. Right now, all you are looking at is the results that takes place because of transgression, because of going against that which is a natural order of a thing as set by God. Of course, if you play with fire you are going to get pain from the burning flame. No different for emotional laws of order. If you go against His Loving Will, you will get the consequences of being against it.
Why can't you see this? It's as plain as day. Black is opposite of white.
Sin is opposite of Holiness. Choose life is what God wants for us. Choose light is what God wants for us. He doesn't want us to choose the dark side of things.
even your personal signature states this "Even a small light makes darkness part."
Why do you contradict your signature in most of your postings? You doubt HIS LIGHT and Believe the DARKNESS that comes to confuse you. How ironic! Make a choice already!!!!!! choose the light, choose life, instead of choosing to focus on the darkenss of doubt which is clearly a form of execution, the sentence of death, a rejection by choice, to what is truly HIS LIGHT, HIS TRUTH! HIS ABSOLUTE TRUTH!
Doubt is what you believe, Not his light! If you believed His light you wouldn't focus on the lies of dark doubt the whiles of devil comes to implant in your mind. You are choosing to doubt. Doubt of HIS TRUTH IS OF THE DEVIL.... Can't you see that?
You need to do more study of the true character of a "LOVING" GOD, Instead of looking on the God who assigns consequences to the sins of the world. OUR LOVING GOD wills for us to look to His light, His love, . If you always look at the anger of your earthly mother or dad, and don't give account to all the LOVE they give to you as an example from which to live, then you are missing the whole point of what it means to be a parent who truly cares for the best and wills to educate you on the evils to stay away from. Discipline is required in each of our lives. This life is not going to always be one sided positive. It if were we'd all be in that heavenly place in which evil cannot enter. (evil is outside of heavenly places) We learn to overcome the negatives in life by looking to the positive loving side of life; LOVE. God's love is the only thing we need to focus on. Not on having animosity for the way he set up the order of all things in life and that which we knows as death. Yes, even death has an order set by God.
You, being similar to Quath, seem to be stuck on only seeing the negative consequences that are a result from perverting his natural order of things. IF you look to HIS positives, His love, His mercy, His grace, His everything that is of the positive consequences, that which is opposite to those negatives you choose to focus on, then what do you expect your mindset will be? Negative thoughts, for negative people. Negative results for negative actions. Dwelling on the NEGATIVE IS BEING NEGATIVE. What God does to those who oppose his HOLINESS is a consequences of what others chose for themselves. they choose to break natural order, they will get the consequences of doing so. Pollute water and what do you get? pollution. What do you expect, do you expect God to overlook a transgression as if there are no consequences to breaking or perverting the natural order of things? :-?
If you do, then you have no sense of the order that exists in all things. You have not learned anything from the fact that all science proves there is a natural absolute law attached to every thing. And you have not learned anything from the fact that how we communicate/relate to others are also based on a natural absolute law pertaining to emotions, and behaviors. GOD MADE it That way. Why do you show animosity toward God over his absolute laws of order? What do you expect? not to get cut if you play with knives recklessly, not to be affected by things around you without knowing how to handle them? :o Hey, create a bomb and what do you get if you ignite it?
Don't you get it? There are natural absolute laws to all things. If you don't like it then too bad, you are not God, you are a creation of God, created for HIS purpose, for HIS pleasure, and for HIS Glory. If you refuse to accept that and live by HIS Principles and HIS Standards, then...... guess what..... it's your choice.... and the choices you make, be them anything outside of being IN HIS HOLINESS..... IS..... HELL. It's your choice.
Why don't you and Quath see that? You agree with Quath more than you agree with the scriptures. But yet you say you are a Christian? Seems to me you are Agnostic at best right now.
If you doubt, you are not IN the Spirit. Being in the spirit of Holiness is a choice. It is by the grace of God that you look to HIS HOLINESS. If you refuse to look to the Holiness and focus on the characteristics of Holiness and look to HIS WAY OF overcoming the spirit which comes to seek to make you take sides with a spirit of unholy confusions, well.... You aren't focusing on the right things. You see the doubt and confusions, instead of the way to follow; HIS WAY. Read scripture and make them your words. Instead of criticizing God for assigning consequences to opposing forces. God sets all laws of nature and of spirit in order. Why do you look at that as if it's not right?
Sometimes I wonder if you and Quath are just one and the same. Quath, do you have two ID's on this forum? I wonder. If not, then Orion, you claim to be a Christian... then BE ONE instead of looking on the doubting side of things. LOOK on the HOLINESS HE OFFERS YOU AND LIVE IN IT. BE THAT. BE Holy, BE IN HIS HOLY SPIRIT. CAST OUT DOUBTING SPIRITS! That is...IF you are a Christian, take on His Holy Spirit, not the rejection of it by being a doubter.
You either choose to BE a doubter, or you choose to be a believer, through trusting IN HIS TRUTH. not the lies the doubter spirit comes to implant in your mind. Sheesh.... REad the bible from a perspective of LOOKING for the Character of a LOVING FATHER WHO WANTS TO PROTECT YOU and grieves when his people turn away from HIm. See the grieving of the HOly Spirit and you will see how MUCH HE TRULY LOVES YOU AND WANTS FOR YOU TO CHOOSE "HIS WAY". His way does not implant doubt into your mind like the whiles of the devil do. You either trust God or you don't. You choose what you do to the spirit. you choose what the spirit is allowed to do in you. Choose the HOLY SPIRIT. Not the spirit of confusion and lies. God is not going to make you a robot that doesn't have freedom to choose the thoughts you want to cling to.
If you don't get it by now....
You are what you think. Start renewing your mind with the mind of Christ. NOT the mind of a doubter liar Satan, who seeks to come and kill, steal, and destroy every thought that is of the HOLY IN YOU.
Ya dig? Get it? Read the bible from a perspective of seeing the lamenting side of God. A God who actually has feelings for those he loves and is grieved by those who are gone astray. Your heart will gain sentiment in understanding the tears of a Father who sees the prodigal son eating with swine instead of dining with him.
We debate, we have our own opinion, but to doubt the truth of God and have animosity towards his righteousness in judgement against sinners, is not that!
If you have a qualm with God, you do not understand the position of a loving Father who wills to keep evil at bay, and who seeks to protect His own. God is such a loving God that He even allows evil to have freedom of choice. HOWEVER! He doesn't eliminate the consequences of those choices we make. OUr flesh pays a price of breaking natural laws that pertain to the material things in life. We can overcome by HIS HOLY SPIRIT, but we cannot escape the judgement of sin. We can be born again, renew our minds with HIS HOLY SPIRIT so as to GO AND SIN NO MORE, But as far as the past... well that's done. what's done is done. If we have been marred emotionally, we have the Holy Spirit to help us overcome. If we have been marred physically, We have hope of healing. God can only perform the miracles. If we don't see them in our own time, then we are not to say... God isn't doing anything. Our time is NOT the determining factor! It is all In HIS TIME.
JHVH GOD will for us to choose HIM. not some false gods. If we allow false gods to enter into our hearts, then confusions and doubts and false beliefs grow.
Choose wisely. There IS ONLY ONE GOD. And that God is The God of absolute laws of order. His Truth cannot be denied. People can pervert all they want, but they cannot escape HIS ABSOLUTE TRUTH in regards to any of those absolute laws of order.
You doubt it? Then what spirit are you listening to?
Are you casting out the spirit of doubt against the HOLY TRUTH OF GOD?
Counter doubt with truth, not lies.
Quath did NOT speak truth. He is speaking lies and confusions.
False gods ARE proven to be just that! FALSE!
We have discussed this many a time and have proven by way of HIS TRUTH that these false gods are indeed false! That's another thread Quath, and you know it!
.
edited to correct spelling errors
Orion said:
:o For a person who takes claim to being a Christian, You sound like Quath. :-?
What Quath is saying is NOT TRUE. And yes, all of will know know absolutely for certain, that JHVH GD IS the ONE AND ONLY GOD. OMNISCIENT, OMNIPOTENT, OMNIPRESENT. You have just preferred to believe the one who brings doubt and confusion.
It would serve you well to read your bible from the perspective of seeing how JHVH GD laments the times people turn their backs on Him and look to sin instead of His Holiness/His Purity/His offering of Grace and Mercy. The LORD GOD laments over people who turn away from Him. It Grieves the Holy Spirit to see the choices people make, when they better choice is to choose that which is sacred in the eyes of OUR HOLY GOD.
When you read the bible looking to see the nurturing side of the Lord God, you see from a different perspective. You see a Loving parental figure who seeks to protect His creation from harm, and you see a Loving parental figure who grieves the lost spirits who turn against all He has to offer.
If you can't accept the fact that there are consequences too ALL action, then you are ignoring the fact that ALL THINGS have an absolute law of order assigned to them. We can manipulate those laws, but we cannot get away from the consequences of manipulating the Natural Laws as God set them to be. Change the order of a thing and you get a hybrid, a perversion of what God intended. It's your choice. Choose to go against the Will of His Holiness for us, and you will remain a doubter, you will remain closed minded to the many Characteristics of a LOVING Father God. Right now, all you are looking at is the results that takes place because of transgression, because of going against that which is a natural order of a thing as set by God. Of course, if you play with fire you are going to get pain from the burning flame. No different for emotional laws of order. If you go against His Loving Will, you will get the consequences of being against it.
Why can't you see this? It's as plain as day. Black is opposite of white.
Sin is opposite of Holiness. Choose life is what God wants for us. Choose light is what God wants for us. He doesn't want us to choose the dark side of things.
even your personal signature states this "Even a small light makes darkness part."
Why do you contradict your signature in most of your postings? You doubt HIS LIGHT and Believe the DARKNESS that comes to confuse you. How ironic! Make a choice already!!!!!! choose the light, choose life, instead of choosing to focus on the darkenss of doubt which is clearly a form of execution, the sentence of death, a rejection by choice, to what is truly HIS LIGHT, HIS TRUTH! HIS ABSOLUTE TRUTH!
Doubt is what you believe, Not his light! If you believed His light you wouldn't focus on the lies of dark doubt the whiles of devil comes to implant in your mind. You are choosing to doubt. Doubt of HIS TRUTH IS OF THE DEVIL.... Can't you see that?
You need to do more study of the true character of a "LOVING" GOD, Instead of looking on the God who assigns consequences to the sins of the world. OUR LOVING GOD wills for us to look to His light, His love, . If you always look at the anger of your earthly mother or dad, and don't give account to all the LOVE they give to you as an example from which to live, then you are missing the whole point of what it means to be a parent who truly cares for the best and wills to educate you on the evils to stay away from. Discipline is required in each of our lives. This life is not going to always be one sided positive. It if were we'd all be in that heavenly place in which evil cannot enter. (evil is outside of heavenly places) We learn to overcome the negatives in life by looking to the positive loving side of life; LOVE. God's love is the only thing we need to focus on. Not on having animosity for the way he set up the order of all things in life and that which we knows as death. Yes, even death has an order set by God.
You, being similar to Quath, seem to be stuck on only seeing the negative consequences that are a result from perverting his natural order of things. IF you look to HIS positives, His love, His mercy, His grace, His everything that is of the positive consequences, that which is opposite to those negatives you choose to focus on, then what do you expect your mindset will be? Negative thoughts, for negative people. Negative results for negative actions. Dwelling on the NEGATIVE IS BEING NEGATIVE. What God does to those who oppose his HOLINESS is a consequences of what others chose for themselves. they choose to break natural order, they will get the consequences of doing so. Pollute water and what do you get? pollution. What do you expect, do you expect God to overlook a transgression as if there are no consequences to breaking or perverting the natural order of things? :-?
If you do, then you have no sense of the order that exists in all things. You have not learned anything from the fact that all science proves there is a natural absolute law attached to every thing. And you have not learned anything from the fact that how we communicate/relate to others are also based on a natural absolute law pertaining to emotions, and behaviors. GOD MADE it That way. Why do you show animosity toward God over his absolute laws of order? What do you expect? not to get cut if you play with knives recklessly, not to be affected by things around you without knowing how to handle them? :o Hey, create a bomb and what do you get if you ignite it?
Don't you get it? There are natural absolute laws to all things. If you don't like it then too bad, you are not God, you are a creation of God, created for HIS purpose, for HIS pleasure, and for HIS Glory. If you refuse to accept that and live by HIS Principles and HIS Standards, then...... guess what..... it's your choice.... and the choices you make, be them anything outside of being IN HIS HOLINESS..... IS..... HELL. It's your choice.
Why don't you and Quath see that? You agree with Quath more than you agree with the scriptures. But yet you say you are a Christian? Seems to me you are Agnostic at best right now.
If you doubt, you are not IN the Spirit. Being in the spirit of Holiness is a choice. It is by the grace of God that you look to HIS HOLINESS. If you refuse to look to the Holiness and focus on the characteristics of Holiness and look to HIS WAY OF overcoming the spirit which comes to seek to make you take sides with a spirit of unholy confusions, well.... You aren't focusing on the right things. You see the doubt and confusions, instead of the way to follow; HIS WAY. Read scripture and make them your words. Instead of criticizing God for assigning consequences to opposing forces. God sets all laws of nature and of spirit in order. Why do you look at that as if it's not right?Sometimes I wonder if you and Quath are just one and the same. Quath, do you have two ID's on this forum? I wonder. If not, then Orion, you claim to be a Christian... then BE ONE instead of looking on the doubting side of things. LOOK on the HOLINESS HE OFFERS YOU AND LIVE IN IT. BE THAT. BE Holy, BE IN HIS HOLY SPIRIT. CAST OUT DOUBTING SPIRITS! That is...IF you are a Christian, take on His Holy Spirit, not the rejection of it by being a doubter.
You either choose to BE a doubter, or you choose to be a believer, through trusting IN HIS TRUTH. not the lies the doubter spirit comes to implant in your mind. Sheesh.... REad the bible from a perspective of LOOKING for the Character of a LOVING FATHER WHO WANTS TO PROTECT YOU and grieves when his people turn away from HIm. See the grieving of the HOly Spirit and you will see how MUCH HE TRULY LOVES YOU AND WANTS FOR YOU TO CHOOSE "HIS WAY". His way does not implant doubt into your mind like the whiles of the devil do. You either trust God or you don't. You choose what you do to the spirit. you choose what the spirit is allowed to do in you. Choose the HOLY SPIRIT. Not the spirit of confusion and lies. God is not going to make you a robot that doesn't have freedom to choose the thoughts you want to cling to.
If you don't get it by now....
You are what you think. Start renewing your mind with the mind of Christ. NOT the mind of a doubter liar Satan, who seeks to come and kill, steal, and destroy every thought that is of the HOLY IN YOU.
Ya dig? Get it? Read the bible from a perspective of seeing the lamenting side of God. A God who actually has feelings for those he loves and is grieved by those who are gone astray. Your heart will gain sentiment in understanding the tears of a Father who sees the prodigal son eating with swine instead of dining with him.
We debate, we have our own opinion, but to doubt the truth of God and have animosity towards his righteousness in judgement against sinners, is not that!
If you have a qualm with God, you do not understand the position of a loving Father who wills to keep evil at bay, and who seeks to protect His own. God is such a loving God that He even allows evil to have freedom of choice. HOWEVER! He doesn't eliminate the consequences of those choices we make. OUr flesh pays a price of breaking natural laws that pertain to the material things in life. We can overcome by HIS HOLY SPIRIT, but we cannot escape the judgement of sin. We can be born again, renew our minds with HIS HOLY SPIRIT so as to GO AND SIN NO MORE, But as far as the past... well that's done. what's done is done. If we have been marred emotionally, we have the Holy Spirit to help us overcome. If we have been marred physically, We have hope of healing. God can only perform the miracles. If we don't see them in our own time, then we are not to say... God isn't doing anything. Our time is NOT the determining factor! It is all In HIS TIME.
JHVH GOD will for us to choose HIM. not some false gods. If we allow false gods to enter into our hearts, then confusions and doubts and false beliefs grow.
Choose wisely. There IS ONLY ONE GOD. And that God is The God of absolute laws of order. His Truth cannot be denied. People can pervert all they want, but they cannot escape HIS ABSOLUTE TRUTH in regards to any of those absolute laws of order.
You doubt it? Then what spirit are you listening to?
Are you casting out the spirit of doubt against the HOLY TRUTH OF GOD?
Counter doubt with truth, not lies.
Quath did NOT speak truth. He is speaking lies and confusions.
False gods ARE proven to be just that! FALSE!
We have discussed this many a time and have proven by way of HIS TRUTH that these false gods are indeed false! That's another thread Quath, and you know it!
.
edited to correct spelling errors
Quath said:
You don't know the truth of God that reveals the false gods of this world. , all you know is the wrath of God and all you do is focus on his wrath towards things that break his laws of order. You don't even understand the workings of the wrath of God and why they are set in place. All you have is animosity against the wrath of God.
If you want to prove other gods are better than the JHVH GOD go right ahead and make a separate thread!
.
I have all these priests telling me that their god is the real one and all the other priests of other religions are fake. Yet not one can offer me some real evidence. You are just echoing what I see from people in any religion. You know you are right and you know everyone else is wrong.Relic said:
Well, I don't believe in the wrath of God. What I am concerned with are the people who do believe in the wrath of God. People who can believe that it may be moreally acceptable to kill childfen of your enemy. People who can believe it is ok to kill many because they are labeled as "sinners." So I worry about the actions of the followers of God, I do not worry about actions of something I have no belief in.
I pretty much see all gods as equally silly. So I don't promote worship in one god over another.
I have to admit that I have some issues that surround what happened in my life, the destruction of my marriage. I admit that I have anger about how things turned out. I was striving to do the right things, praying and having countless others pray for reconciliation. In the end, she got everything we worked towards AND received an estate check. I ended up in a one bedroom apartment in the bad side of town, with my clothes, boxes of junk, and a 10 year old car. I admit that I felt abandoned by God.
However, many of my questions come from other inputs and I am striving to find the answers to many of them. The whole thing about people's ultimate eternity is one of them, but there are others. I wish I hadn't been exposed to such things but I have. For EACH of these questions, I pray that God would enlighten me so I could see what the truth is. I'm not just doubting for doubting's sake, or even stating that there is no God, like Quath. And I truly want to know the answers to everything I ask. I'm not just here for argument sake. When I come back with a question or response to what is basically the christian doctrines, it isn't because I'm rejecting them necessarily. I'm really wanting to find answers to these questions in my mind because many of them are pretty powerful. They are strongholds that I don't want to hold on to, they are just there and since God is more interested in me than any other influence, I'm just waiting to see how these questions will be answered in a way that will make sense.
Things I wish could be answered:
1. How you get a universe that has the age of billions of years within a 6,000 year time span.
2. How do we get all the diversity of people and numbers from 4 couples roughly 4,000 years ago? How do we have egyptian pyramids constructed around the same time as "the flood"?
3. What do we do with the Old Testament laws that call for death for those who: work on the Sabbath, who don't believe in God, who blasphemes, cursing mother or father, committing adultery, rebellious children?
4. Numbers 31 where they were told to kill everyone man and women, who has known a man by lying with him, but the young girls who have not known a man by lying with them, keep alive for yourselves?
These are just a few of them. I may start other threads about other questions.
I'm completely open to God and these things being made answered in God's time. If they are, I would be very happy! Right now, I see much of the Old Testiment as not God's words, but the laws and practices of a small group of people saying that they were the words of God. So, I don't deny God at all. I question the validity of what was written down by men thousands of years ago, and whether God actually had a hand in it.
However, many of my questions come from other inputs and I am striving to find the answers to many of them. The whole thing about people's ultimate eternity is one of them, but there are others. I wish I hadn't been exposed to such things but I have. For EACH of these questions, I pray that God would enlighten me so I could see what the truth is. I'm not just doubting for doubting's sake, or even stating that there is no God, like Quath. And I truly want to know the answers to everything I ask. I'm not just here for argument sake. When I come back with a question or response to what is basically the christian doctrines, it isn't because I'm rejecting them necessarily. I'm really wanting to find answers to these questions in my mind because many of them are pretty powerful. They are strongholds that I don't want to hold on to, they are just there and since God is more interested in me than any other influence, I'm just waiting to see how these questions will be answered in a way that will make sense.
Things I wish could be answered:
1. How you get a universe that has the age of billions of years within a 6,000 year time span.
2. How do we get all the diversity of people and numbers from 4 couples roughly 4,000 years ago? How do we have egyptian pyramids constructed around the same time as "the flood"?
3. What do we do with the Old Testament laws that call for death for those who: work on the Sabbath, who don't believe in God, who blasphemes, cursing mother or father, committing adultery, rebellious children?
4. Numbers 31 where they were told to kill everyone man and women, who has known a man by lying with him, but the young girls who have not known a man by lying with them, keep alive for yourselves?
These are just a few of them. I may start other threads about other questions.
I'm completely open to God and these things being made answered in God's time. If they are, I would be very happy! Right now, I see much of the Old Testiment as not God's words, but the laws and practices of a small group of people saying that they were the words of God. So, I don't deny God at all. I question the validity of what was written down by men thousands of years ago, and whether God actually had a hand in it.
True, but many YE Creationists say that the Bible does say this by counting generations and accepting that a day is a day (fcor the 7 days of creation).vic C. said:
So some people abandon a literal interpretation and go for a less literal interpretation and say "a day is an era." But you still have problems on the order things were created based on if you follow Genesis 1 or Genesis 2.
So some Christians say it is a metaphorical story that is about morality and did not literally happen.
So the problem for Christians is that they have to disagree with modern science or they have to accept a Bible that can be intepreted many, many ways (and no guarantee you figured out the right interpretation).
S
Solo
Guest
Why would God need a physical world when He and the creation prior were spiritual?
He did not need a physical world. He created the physical realm for his plan against the rebellion of Lucifer, and through the creation of clay, he gave man the place that Lucifer coveted. All believers are joint heirs with Christ Jesus.
What portion of the following verses speak of God creating the heaven and the earth in six literal days?
The entire Chapter of Genesis 1 shows when the earth was created, when the heavens were created, when the entire physical realm was created.
He did not need a physical world. He created the physical realm for his plan against the rebellion of Lucifer, and through the creation of clay, he gave man the place that Lucifer coveted. All believers are joint heirs with Christ Jesus.
What portion of the following verses speak of God creating the heaven and the earth in six literal days?
The entire Chapter of Genesis 1 shows when the earth was created, when the heavens were created, when the entire physical realm was created.
- 1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. 4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. 5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. 7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. 8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so. 10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good. 11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so. 12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good. 13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.
14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: 15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. 16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. 17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, 18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good. 19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven. 21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good. 22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth. 23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so. 25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. 28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat. 30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.
31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day. Genesis 1:1-31