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An interesting Christmas Story

D

DRA

Guest
A friend of mine was out shopping on Black Friday. (We do this in Canada now too.) She over heard some talking along these lines. " I hate Christmas, it's just more many spent on ungrateful kids. "

It was an eye opener for her, and really didn't surprise me to much. Christmas has become about the presents not the birth of Christ, even for a lot of Christians I think.

My wife and I have decided not to get each other gifts this year because for us it's not what this holiday is about. As far as the world goes, if your kids are ungrateful cut of the supply, because if you are just doing Christmas than stop.

Thoughts?
 
Here's the what she said. Just got permission to use it.

"Without embellishing, true story, I heard this quote word for word today while shopping:
"I HATE Christmas, just more money I have to spend on my ungrateful children. "

Eye opening experience this year on black Friday, Christ has been ushered out of his own celebration. There is something seriously wrong"
 
I worked as a teacher for 2 years at one of the largest private schools here in LOS. It was a Catholic school. Most of the kids had gone through kindergarten to mathayom 6 (Year 12 High school) at this school. Last Christmas I asked my students what Christmas was about. The answers are below listed from most common to least common.
Getting presents.
Santa Claus Birthday
Having a holiday if you are Christian
I dont Know
To celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ. (This was from the CHRISTIAN students only)

What makes this worse is that I asked the question in Thai and English so there could be no misunderstanding. (I speak fluent Thai).
When I approached Sister Director and pointed out that the school was failing in it's duty and doctrine, I was told. You're not Catholic! You don't understand. You're not Thai you don't understand.
I then approached the Bishop of the Diocese and again raised my concerns. His answer: "Paul, my hands are tied. The running of the school is at the discretion of the board and Sister Director."
I left 3 weeks later.
At the school I am currently teaching at, I have asked the Director for permission to teach about Christmas' true meaning and about Jesus. The director,readily agreed and has even given me a small stipend to buy what is needed to do so. It's a small village school with only 576 pupils across the ages of 12-18. Most interesting is that I am the only Christian there. All the staff and students are Buddhist but want to know and want it to be taught. Maybe because they know me from the village or maybe just from curiosity. But at least these "Heathen" poor people will know what it really means....unlike their wealthy counterparts only 60km away who attend a school where it should be taught.
 
Love it, My hands are tied... LOL!! That pretty much goes against everything I've heard about how that works. I am curious though, I am not firmiliar with geography on that side of the world. LOS?
 
Sorry DRA LOS= Land Of Smiles is Thailand. Due to the (usually) friendly and happy disposition of it's people.

I should have mentioned also, I'm NOT catholic. So maybe that had something to do with their attitude. Just a sad commentary really. As a minority in this country (97% Buddhist) I would have thought they would pull out all stops to Evangelize His glory. Sadly it seems about cramming students into the school to increase profit no cramming young minds with the fruits of knowing Him.
 
I'm not Catholic either, I have a buddy who is going through (and no offense intended to any Catholic's out there, I just can't remember what this is called) Catholic class right now to join the church. So I hear from him about what he has learned. You did mention that you aren't Catholic in your post:

When I approached Sister Director and pointed out that the school was failing in it's duty and doctrine, I was told. You're not Catholic! You don't understand. You're not Thai you don't understand.
Click to expand...

Thanks for clarifing that and the LOS thing.
 
I know the nativity etc has become a fairly recent Christmas tradition but should we really be teaching it to Children when we know it isn't true?

No one really thinks Jesus was born on 25th December do they?
No one really thinks he was born in a stable do they?
No one really think that Joseph and Mary were required by Roman Law to go to their town of origin for a census do they?
We all know why 25th December was chosen don't we?
We all know why the Pilgrim Fathers banned the celebration of Christmas don't we?
We all know that the feasting is part of a completely different celebration don't we?

So, is it really wise to teach children things that they are very quickly going to find out are not true? There is a real danger that they will simply equate the nativity story with the Santa Clause story and dismiss both of them and everything associated with them. Why not just teach the truth to the best of our knowledge rather than this fairly bizarre modern tradition?
 
Hi Aardverk, the date, what the pilgrim fathers did or didn't do and the origins of the feast are irrelevant. In contemporary times we Christians use that dayto celebrate the Birth of Jesus Christ, our Lord and Saviour. The point is the meaning of Christmas has been lost amid the consumerist culture of today.
Instead of being treated as a celebration of His birth, life and our salvation, it has degenerated into a frenzy of greed and selfishness which is at complete disagreement to the Christian way of life.
 
As a kid my parents did teach me that what tradition says about Christ's birth and Christmas isn't all that accurate, as well as Christmas having pagan origins. We still celebrated Christmas. I think as long as you're aware of that, it doesn't really matter.
Probably the only traditional holiday that isn't pagan in origin is Thanksgiving.
 
Paul1965 said:
Instead of being treated as a celebration of His birth, life and our salvation, it has degenerated into a frenzy of greed and selfishness which is at complete disagreement to the Christian way of life.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately we have two or three concurrent celebrations and that is usually forgotten. I think that the practice described by questdriven is the most sensible and we should avoid teaching children 'facts' that we 'know' are wrong. That way we can deplore the excesses - or enjoy them - and celebrate the birth of Jesus as a separate activity. Perhaps we should try to reintroduce the common use of the term 'Yuletide' to cover the feasting etc and keep 'Christmas' for quiet reflection and temperate celebration?
 
Mr. Aardverk, why do you think Mary and Joseph were not required to go to Bethlehem for a census?
in Luke, chapter 2:1-7, it clearly states that they were.
I believe it and every Christian I have ever known believes it.
 
ok. while i will do channukah this year and did it last year. it really would be hard to tell a boy or a girl how channukah relates to the cross. christmas is more direct, albeit faulted. i could do it, via jewish books and messianic jewish books(both would be about the same story, messianic would mention jesus came and a jew wont.

why does channukah allude to the messiah isnt direct and would require a good knowledge of the tanach to get there and simply a five year old gentile or up to a tween wont know unless i really spent a time digging deep with them. doable yes,. but well the church is gentile and the focus is on christ,not isreal.

he he though isreal can and the torah does point to christ.
 
allenwynne said:
Mr. Aardverk, why do you think Mary and Joseph were not required to go to Bethlehem for a census?
in Luke, chapter 2:1-7, it clearly states that they were.
I believe it and every Christian I have ever known believes it.
Click to expand...

1. There is no historical record of such a census carried out within Israel nor indeed anywhere in the Roman Empire - except of course in the Bible.
2. Such a census method would be madness, even with our modern transport. In a country with no transport it would be literally impossible.
3. The first Jewish diaspora had already taken place (or was it the 2nd) meaning that just about everyone would have to travel huge distances to their place of origin (however you wish to interpret that).

I accept your word that you have never spoken to a Christian who questions this story. I have discussed it with many Christians who feel that the story is unlikely to be literally true - for the reasons given above. We should always bear in mind that the Bible stories are based on aural tradition and the various tellers may well have inserted flawed 'explanations' which made more sense to them but which are not factual.

I should point out that this is not my theory, it is a very common notion.
 
i'm very interested in what you are saying.

if they did not go there for the reason it says in the
bible, then why did they go there?

if we can't prove something is true in the Bible, then does that mean we shouldn't believe it?
 
allenwynne said:
if they did not go there for the reason it says in the bible, then why did they go there?
Click to expand...
I don't know. I am not certain that they did.

if we can't prove something is true in the Bible, then does that mean we shouldn't believe it?
Click to expand...
I didn't say that. I don't think the forum rules allow me to give you a frank answer. As long as believing the Bible is a considered decision, I see absolutely nothing wrong with that. I believe much of it, even bits that are uncorroborated and unprovable.

I would simply point out that there are many stories and explanations, which would have seemed perfectly reasonable to a child or to a man 2,000 years ago, that we now know are highly questionable. The Bible is a history book with events and 'scientific' explanations which are not corroborated anywhere else.

No one can confidently state that there are errors in the Bible, merely that the knowledge therein conflicts with the other knowledge of mankind. I am not comfortable accepting any one book as absolute truth when there are thousands of books of proven facts which a contradict it. I would prefer to accept the Bible in part as allegorical - same as the majority of Christians. When I was a child, I understood as a child - but now I am a man etc.

I hope that is enough explanation because I doubt I am allowed to say any more.
 
may i ask you another question mr. aardverk, out of curiosity?

why do you stay on this site and continue to write if you you have no desire ti believe it all?
 
Paul1965 said:
I worked as a teacher for 2 years at one of the largest private schools here in LOS. It was a Catholic school. Most of the kids had gone through kindergarten to mathayom 6 (Year 12 High school) at this school. Last Christmas I asked my students what Christmas was about. The answers are below listed from most common to least common.
Getting presents.
Santa Claus Birthday
Having a holiday if you are Christian
I dont Know
To celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ. (This was from the CHRISTIAN students only)

What makes this worse is that I asked the question in Thai and English so there could be no misunderstanding. (I speak fluent Thai).
When I approached Sister Director and pointed out that the school was failing in it's duty and doctrine, I was told. You're not Catholic! You don't understand. You're not Thai you don't understand.
I then approached the Bishop of the Diocese and again raised my concerns. His answer: "Paul, my hands are tied. The running of the school is at the discretion of the board and Sister Director."
I left 3 weeks later.
At the school I am currently teaching at, I have asked the Director for permission to teach about Christmas' true meaning and about Jesus. The director,readily agreed and has even given me a small stipend to buy what is needed to do so. It's a small village school with only 576 pupils across the ages of 12-18. Most interesting is that I am the only Christian there. All the staff and students are Buddhist but want to know and want it to be taught. Maybe because they know me from the village or maybe just from curiosity. But at least these "Heathen" poor people will know what it really means....unlike their wealthy counterparts only 60km away who attend a school where it should be taught.
Click to expand...

Matthew 19:24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

Great testimony Paul as God will place us where we are truly needed by Him.
 
allenwynne said:
may i ask you another question mr. aardverk, out of curiosity?

why do you stay on this site and continue to write if you you have no desire ti believe it all?
Click to expand...

He is providing you the opportunity to develop your 'fruit of the spirit'. :lol
 
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