An Unbiased Poll Concerning Hell

[Shana]

:D Would anyone care to answer the questions? There seem to be some major contradictions with the eternal hell view if Jesus is to abolish all rule, power, and authority as described in 1 Cor. 15 ...and are the wages of sin death or not? God bless.

 

[Scott]

although they are described as many to be dead?

1 Thessalonians 4:16 talks about the dead in Christ, your point is?!?

Can you show me of any law that will not govern those who will apparently be living in hell for all of eternity

I wasn't the one who claimed those in Revelation 20:12 remained in sin. You made the statement, the burden of proof is on you.

In response to your other questions, is a vanquished enemy still an enemy?? I guess that depends on your point of view. It seems to me that Revelation 21:4 doesn't give us much to worry about as far as having enemies is concerned.

 

[Shana]

1 Thessalonians 4:16 talks about the dead in Christ, your point is?!?

Yes, the dead in Christ, will rise, DkC. Do you believe that those who will evidently be living for all of eternity in eternal hell will be in Christ?

Quote:
Can you show me of any law that will not govern those who will apparently be living in hell for all of eternity


I wasn't the one who claimed those in Revelation 20:12 remained in sin. You made the statement, the burden of proof is on you.

I asked a question, DkC, to those who believe in eternal hell. If you are a believer in eternal hell, do you believe that the effect and power of sin and death will remain in effect for all of eternity? Will those who are existing in eternal hell remain sinners for all of eternity, enemies of God? If they will, will the power and effect of sin and death (also enemies of God) have been defeated?

In response to your other questions, is a vanquished enemy still an enemy?? I guess that depends on your point of view. It seems to me that Revelation 21:4 doesn't give us much to worry about as far as having enemies is concerned.

If these folk are defeated enemies, what does this mean? Will they remain separated from God because of the effect and power of sin and death (enemies of God) for all of eternity? Will they remain sinners and enslaved to the lusts of the flesh if they become defeated enemies? God bless.
_________________

 

[Shana]

21 Cor. 15

2For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.


23But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ's at His coming,


24then comes the end (or last) , when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power.

25For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet.


26The last enemy that will be *abolished is death.

*abolish = katargeo

to render idle, unemployed, inactivate, inoperative

a) to cause a person or thing to have no further efficiency

b) to deprive of force, influence, power

2) to cause to cease, put an end to, do away with, annul, abolish

a) to cease, to pass away, be done away

b) to be severed from, separated from, discharged from, loosed from any one

c) to terminate all intercourse with one




God bless.

 

[Michael Burke]

It seems to me that Revelation 21:4 doesn't give us much to worry about as far as having enemies is concerned.

It doesn't leave God all in all, as it says in 1Cor. 15:28 either. Paul was caught up to the third heaven, and saw much further then John saw. He says that God's purpose is to gather all up in Christ, in what he calls "the dispensation of the fulness of the ages" (Eph. 1:10.) He calls those who now believe "the Church of the firstborn" in Hebrews 12:23, and specifically says that God is "The Savior of all, especially those who believe" (1 Tim. 4:10.) James also refered to those who believe now as "a kind of first fruits" BTW (see James 1:18.)

 

[Scott]

Do you believe that those who will evidently be living for all of eternity in eternal hell will be in Christ?

Thats a contradiction in terms. If they are in Christ, they will not be in Hell. Remember the "Parable of the Net" (Matthew 13:47-50) or "The Sheep and Goats" (Matthew 25:31-46)

do you believe that the effect and power of sin and death will remain in effect for all of eternity?

Will they remain sinners and enslaved to the lusts of the flesh if they become defeated enemies?

As I quoted before, Romans 5:13 "...But sin is not taken into effect where there is no law."

No law, no sin. No sin, no death. Clear enough?!?

Below are some scripture references for you to keep in mind as you continue your search for the laws that supposedly govern the dead (those mentioned in Revelation 20:12).

Matthew 5:18
Revelation 21:1
Revelation 21:4 (the second part)

If these folk are defeated enemies, what does this mean?

Folk?!.... :
Vanguished, conquered, defeated, and sentenced to Holy judgement. Revelation 21:3-4 ensure we have no more worries. Unless of course you don't believe Revelation 21:5.

 

[Shana]

Quote:
Do you believe that those who will evidently be living for all of eternity in eternal hell will be in Christ?



Thats a contradiction in terms. If they are in Christ, they will not be in Hell. Remember the "Parable of the Net" (Matthew 13:47-50) or "The Sheep and Goats" (Matthew 25:31-46)

:D So... what do you believe? In eternal hell? Annihilation? I am confused in regard to why you posted the passage in 1 Thess. Please explain. Do you believe that those who many believe will be lost for all of eternity, in an eternal hell, will be in Christ?

Quote:
do you believe that the effect and power of sin and death will remain in effect for all of eternity?

Will they remain sinners and enslaved to the lusts of the flesh if they become defeated enemies?



As I quoted before, Romans 5:13 "...But sin is not taken into effect where there is no law."

No law, no sin. No sin, no death. Clear enough?!?

So... these folk will no longer be sinners? Were we under the sentence of death before we broke the law? Does an infant who has never broken any law still die? Will the effect and power of the law remain in effect for all of eternity?

Quote:
If these folk are defeated enemies, what does this mean?


Folk?!....
Vanguished, conquered, defeated, and sentenced to Holy judgement. Revelation 21:3-4 ensure we have no more worries. Unless of course you don't believe Revelation 21:5.

Yes, I believe it, but if there is an eternal hell, there will be plenty of crying, mourning, and pain ... and for all of eternity!! Again, if they are defeated enemies, will they remain under the domain or power of sin and death? Evidently, they will be , if they remain unreconciled to God for all of eternity, in an eternal hell. Sin is what separates us from God. Isn't this what those who believe in eternal hell (suffering, torment) believe?

Rev. 21:5 gives me great hope, DkC. He will make all things new..but I won't go into it because...I know..I know. :D God bless.
_________________

 

[Scott]

I am confused in regard to why you posted the passage in 1 Thess. Please explain.

I posted that because it doesn't mean the dead in Christ are actually dead (cease to exist). It was in response to your comment......

although they are described as many to be dead?

I was under the impression you were implying that the dead referenced cease to exist.

Those of Revelation 20:10-15 are the only ones who are sentenced to Hell.

So... these folk will no longer be sinners?

Those of Revelation 20:12 are judged with Holy judgment. As far as I know there are no laws in Hell, I'm guessing you didn't find any either. Romans 5:13 tells us there is no sin when there is no law. When there is no sin there is no death. No death means what?!?! See my point??

Yes, I believe it, but if there is an eternal hell, there will be plenty of crying, weeping, and mourning... and for all of eternity!!

There certainly will be for those who are sentenced to Hell as indicated by the parables I mentioned in the last post.

Again, if they are defeated enemies, will they remain under the domain of sin and death?

Again, I will say it again.... and again...... and again etc.

No law=no sin=no death.
Also, remember Hell is God's Holy Judgement, not a big party in a warm climate.

 

[aiki]

Woohoo! Quite a discussion going on here! :-D

Shana you wrote:

The wages of sin is described as death. If eternal hell is the penalty, why did God conceal this from Adam, from Moses, His chosen people, and the majority, if He loves all men?

I think the people you mention (except the rather undefined "majority") understood that the consequence of sin was a terrible thing. They may or may not have had an understanding of an eternal Hell, but they did understand very well that God judged sin severely -- and not just with death. The Israelites suffered captivity as a nation a number of times because of their sin. Adam and Eve not only faced death, but sickness, the pain of childbirth, the loss of Eden, etc., etc. Moses saw God swallow up the rebellious in the earth. He saw snakes infest and kill the sinning nation of Israel. He knew that the wage of sin was not just death by and by. So let me ask: What would a knowledge of Hell have accomplished among those you mention above that witnessing or experiencing the awful, temporal judgment of God upon sin wouldn't?

I believe that God despises the sin but loves those who are enslaved to sin. If He did not, then Jesus would not have died for us.

I'm not so sure, Shana. I see a number of things in scripture that give me pause in entirely embracing what you've said here. There are many verses which speak of God being angry with the wicked. In many of these verses He doesn't have the warm fuzzies for them in spite of their sin; in several instances He threatens their destruction. Take a look at the words "anger" and "angry" in your concordance and you'll see what I mean. Proverbs 6:16-19 says, "These six things does the Lord hate: yes, seven are an abomination unto Him: a proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, an heart that devises wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, a false witness that speaks lies, and he who sows discord among brothers." God's hatred in this passage isn't directed solely at sin as an intangible thing, but at the tongue, hands, feet, heart, and person of those who sin. His hatred doesn't distinguish between sin and sinner in these verses. King David states this quite plainly: "For you are not a God who has pleasure in wickedness: neither shall evil dwell with you. The foolish shall not stand in your sight: you hate all workers of iniquity. You shall destroy them who speak leasing: the Lord will abhor the bloody and deceitful man." - Ps. 5:4-6 (italics mine)

The lost are said to be sick, blinded, enslaved, lost, deceived.

They are also called vile, rebellious, wicked, and evil.

And Jesus hated the sin, but lived among sinners and gave His life for them. He also taught us to love our enemies and to be perfect as our Heavenly Father. God bless.

Amen! God bless you, too! :D

In Christ, Aiki.

 

[Michael Burke]

Woohoo! Quite a discussion going on here! :-D

Shana you wrote:

I believe that God despises the sin but loves those who are enslaved to sin. If He did not, then Jesus would not have died for us.

I'm not so sure, Shana. I see a number of things in scripture that give me pause in entirely embracing what you've said here.

As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live (Ezek.33:11.)

 

[aiki]

Hey, Mike!

You wrote:

As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live (Ezek.33:11.)

Yup, this verse is pretty plain. So are the ones I posted. I don't think I ever suggested that God takes pleasure in the death of the wicked, though.

In Christ, Aiki.

 

[Shana]

DkC, you still haven't answered as to what you believe in, eternal hell (eternal torment, suffering) or annihilation. I believe that when we die, we are no longer living. We are dead awaiting the resurrection. Believers are in Christ and will be resurrected from the dead. I do not believe th at believers go straight to heaven when they die. I am not sure of what you believe on this. Many believe that those who are lost will be living forever in an eternal hell, but he wages of sin is described as death. I believe that if there will be people living in an hell for all of eternity, they will remain lost, unreconciled to God, enemies of God, sinners, forever. Sin is what separates us from God, and they will be experiencing the effects or result of sin and death forever. This will be a contradiction in that Jesus is to abolish (render powerless) all rule, power, and authority. I do believe that the rebellious will become defeated enemies of God in that they will no longer be his enemies. He will subject all for a purpose (1 Cor. 15)

Hi Aiki, I am unable to quote everything that you posted for reference due to computer problems, but you mentioned that God punished severely in the OT days. and I do believe that we are to warn of the judgments of God. God punishes sin, but there is no evidence that there would be the penalty of an eternal hell for sinners. What would it have accomplished if there had been and if it is true? I don't know, because people react differently to whatever the message is. Evidently, many today say they have come to God because of the threat of an eternal hell. But here is the thing-God is described as agape love and from what I read in the scriptures, He will have all to be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth - even the wicked. Does this exclude those who lived before Jesus came to earth? If the penalty of an eternal hell is what happens to the lost for all of eternity and if God loves all men, why not the warning at the beginning of time? Why conceal this from those whom He loves and will have to come to a knowledge of the truth, if this is true? Why conceal this from the mass of humanity? Why is this eternal punishment not screaming from every page of the Holy Scriptures? Then, if the revelation of this eternal punishment is not necessary, why do believers in it believe that Jesus warned of this, if this is what He was speaking of? Why even preach this today if it is true, it will have no effect?

God hates sin and I believe sinners will be destroyed, but God is also described as the Savior of all men. Jesus asked the Father to forgive those who put Him to death "for they know not what they do", yet these individuals are described as wicked men. Evidently God's love overrules any "hatred" for men as described in the scriptures because Jesus died for the wicked, for us believers who were once wicked. Jesus taught us to love our enemies and to be perfect as our Heavenly Father is perfect. It follows then that God loves His enemies, the wicked.God bless.

 

[Michael Burke]

I do believe that the rebellious will become defeated enemies of God in that they will no longer be his enemies.

As Gregory of Nyssa believed. Amen.

Evidently, many today say they have come to God because of the threat of an eternal hell. But here is the thing-God is described as agape love and from what I read in the scriptures, He will have all to be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth - even the wicked. Does this exclude those who lived before Jesus came to earth? If the penalty of an eternal hell is what happens to the lost for all of eternity and if God loves all men, why not the warning at the beginning of time? Why conceal this from those whom He loves and will have to come to a knowledge of the truth, if this is true? Why conceal this from the mass of humanity? Why is this eternal punishment not screaming from every page of the Holy Scriptures? Then, if the revelation of this eternal punishment is not necessary, why do believers in it believe that Jesus warned of this, if this is what He was speaking of? Why even preach this today if it is true, it will have no effect?

Good point.

God hates sin and I believe sinners will be destroyed, but God is also described as the Savior of all men. Jesus asked the Father to forgive those who put Him to death "for they know not what they do", yet these individuals are described as wicked men. Evidently God's love overrules any "hatred" for men as described in the scriptures because Jesus died for the wicked, for us believers who were once wicked. Jesus taught us to love our enemies and to be perfect as our Heavenly Father is perfect. It follows then that God loves His enemies, the wicked.God bless.

Amen.

 

[Scott]

DkC, you still haven't answered as to what you believe in

I believe what the Bible tells us about the life that awaits those who are going to Heaven and Hell. Matthew 7:13-14 and many of the other parables Jesus told including Matthew 13:47-50 and Matthew 22:31-46, and also Matthew 18:1-9 & Revelation 20:10-15 do a good job summing up what I believe.

The devil is vanquished once and for all and caged in eternal Hell. The dead are sentenced to Holy Judgement according to what they had done in life (Revelation 20:11-15).

Judgment is of God and is Holy and final. People can't comprehend all that God is and all that He can do. Even evil men today have provisions made for them by God (Isaiah 26:10). What happens when God no longer makes those provisions?

That is why Paul told us that we need to judge ourselves and to be disciplined by the Lord so that we are not condemned with the rest of the world (Romans 11:31-32).

 

[Shana]

:D Do you believe that the lost (people) experience destruction that they are annihilated (meaning that they cease to exist, according to this view) in the furnace of fire or lake of fire, or that they burn forever, living in an eternal hell of fire? Evidently, Christians who read and accept these same scriptures have differences in understanding what these scriptures mean or say. Thanks and God bless.

 

[Shana]

Mike, thanks. God bless.

 

[Scott]

I think if you take the time to read each passage I mentioned its not very hard to see what I believe.


I believe what the Bible tells us about the life that awaits those who are going to Heaven and Hell. Matthew 7:13-14 and many of the other parables Jesus told including Matthew 13:47-50 and Matthew 22:31-46, and also Matthew 18:1-9 & Revelation 20:10-15 do a good job summing up what I believe.

 

[Shana]

I have read the passages, DkC, and as I shared before Christians who read and accept these passages have differences in understanding what is being meant. Now, it is your choice to answer or not answer whether you believe that people will be annihilated or living in an eternal hell. It shouldn't be a hard question to answer. Even if you don't know or are still working through this in your studies and faith, just say, I don't know. From reading the passages you posted in reference to what you believe and from reading some of your posts, I am not sure of what you believe. . Anyway, for those who do believe in an eternal hell, do you believe that people will continue to remain enemies of God for all of eternity, meaning that the rule and power of sin and death will not have been abolished or rendered powerless?Thanks for any feedback and God bless.

 

[aiki]

Hey, Shana!

Hope you're well.

You wrote:

God punishes sin, but there is no evidence that there would be the penalty of an eternal hell for sinners. What would it have accomplished if there had been and if it is true?

Apart from serving to execute God's perfect justice, not much, apparently. The Israelites, for instance, had a long and intimate relationship with God. They had seen both His blessing and His punishment. Nonetheless, again and again they grew apathetic and rebellious toward Him. It seems neither God's goodness nor His wrath could long prevent them from following the selfish bent of their sin-cursed hearts. And this remains true even to today. Many people know of the concept of Hell. Few give it any serious consideration. They are willing to take their chances, hoping the Bible is all wrong. Really, I'm not so sure God intends for Hell to serve primarily as a threat hung over the heads of people. I think its first and foremost purpose is not to scare people, but, as I said, simply to execute God's judgment upon the wicked. Scripture allows for Hell to be used as a threat (Jude 1:23), but I think God recognizes that you draw more flies with honey than vinegar.

But here is the thing-God is described as agape love...

God is, above all, holy. In fact, Scripture says that He is "Holy, holy, holy." God isn't described as "Love, love, love," or "friendly, friendly, friendly". Only concerning His holiness is He thrice-declared. ONe must, then, reason about God with His holiness preeminent. Putting anything else before this characteristic will produce faulty conclusions about Him.

He will have all to be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth - even the wicked.

Sorry to nitpick, but we all fall under the heading of "wicked" before we are saved. :wink: :-D

[/quote]Does this exclude those who lived before Jesus came to earth?[/quote]

You know, the Bible clearly states that God does as He pleases with what He has made -- even including destroying it: "As it is written, 'Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.' What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. For He says to Moses, 'I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion....Therefore has He mercy on whom He will, and whom He will He hardens (ie. Pharaoh)...Has not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honor and another unto dishonor?" Romans 9:18-21 The passage goes on to speak more of vessels made unto honor and vessels fitted to destruction. As the Creator of all, God has carte blanche to do as He wills, to bless or destroy His creations. This is His Sovereign prerogative. A sobering thought in an age where the biblical concept of God, by the exaggeration of His love at the expense of His other attributes, has been warped to such a degree that His holy judgment is now denied.

If the penalty of an eternal hell is what happens to the lost for all of eternity and if God loves all men, why not the warning at the beginning of time?

As I said before, I think that, even without knowing of Hell, they had cause to expect and fear God's judgment of sin. Today, with the knowledge of Hell before them, people carry on more or less as the Israelites did in the OT. For this reason, I don't think knowing of Hell would have made much, if any, difference to the conduct of OT people.

Why is this eternal punishment not screaming from every page of the Holy Scriptures?

What kind of a book would the Bible be if it were? It would be quite horrible, I think! Obviously, there was more that God wanted us to know. I'm sure God, being the perfect being that He is, mentioned Hell just the right number of times in HIs Word. Goodness! You'd think once would be enough! :o

Why even preach this today if it is true, it will have no effect?

I think I already answered this. :D

but God is also described as the Savior of all men.

This is a potential truth, not an actual one. "Wide is the road and narrow the gate", remember?

Evidently God's love overrules any "hatred" for men as described in the scriptures because Jesus died for the wicked, for us believers who were once wicked. Jesus taught us to love our enemies and to be perfect as our Heavenly Father is perfect. It follows then that God loves His enemies, the wicked.God bless.

As I think I've shown, its not quite that simple, Shana. :D

God bless you, too!

In Christ, Aiki.

 

[Shana]

Hi Aiki,

Quote:

God punishes sin, but there is no evidence that there would be the penalty of an eternal hell for sinners.


What would it have accomplished if there had been and if it is true?

This was the question that you asked, Aiki.

Apart from serving to execute God's perfect justice, not much, apparently. The Israelites, for instance, had a long and intimate relationship with God. They had seen both His blessing and His punishment. Nonetheless, again and again they grew apathetic and rebellious toward Him. It seems neither God's goodness nor His wrath could long prevent them from following the selfish bent of their sin-cursed hearts.

Do you believe that God saw this from the beginning of the creation?

And this remains true even to today. Many people know of the concept of Hell. Few give it any serious consideration. They are willing to take their chances, hoping the Bible is all wrong. Really, I'm not so sure God intends for Hell to serve primarily as a threat hung over the heads of people. I think its first and foremost purpose is not to scare people, but, as I said, simply to execute God's judgment upon the wicked. Scripture allows for Hell to be used as a threat (Jude 1:23), but I think God recognizes that you draw more flies with honey than vinegar.

From what I understand, the apostle Paul taught that the wages of sin is death. And this is what was communicated to Adam.

Quote:
But here is the thing-God is described as agape love...

God is, above all, holy. In fact, Scripture says that He is "Holy, holy, holy." God isn't described as "Love, love, love," or "friendly, friendly, friendly".

The apostle John describes God as agape love in 1 John 4. God is holy, righteous, just, merciful, has all power, along with may other things. I believe that when the apostle Paul speaks of love being the greatest gift of the Spirit, that this is an indication of the greatest aspect of God.

Only concerning His holiness is He thrice-declared. ONe must, then, reason about God with His holiness preeminent. Putting anything else before this characteristic will produce faulty conclusions about Him.

Again, God is described as love and Paul describes the greatest gift that we receive from Him as that of love.

Quote:
He will have all to be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth - even the wicked.


Sorry to nitpick, but we all fall under the heading of "wicked" before we are saved.

Exactly. I think that I mentioned this in my post. God loves the wicked as He will have all to be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth. He is concerned about the wicked.

[/quote]Does this exclude those who lived before Jesus came to earth?[/quote]

You know, the Bible clearly states that God does as He pleases with what He has made -- even including destroying it: "As it is written, 'Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.' What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. For He says to Moses, 'I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion....Therefore has He mercy on whom He will, and whom He will He hardens (ie. Pharaoh)...Has not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honor and another unto dishonor?" Romans 9:18-21 The passage goes on to speak more of vessels made unto honor and vessels fitted to destruction. As the Creator of all, God has carte blanche to do as He wills, to bless or destroy His creations. This is His Sovereign prerogative. A sobering thought in an age where the biblical concept of God, by the exaggeration of His love at the expense of His other attributes, has been warped to such a degree that His holy judgment is now denied.

Yes, I agree that God has made vessels for dishoner and vessels unto honor. No problem with this at all. I believe in the Sovereignty of God's will and that it will be done, regardless of man's will. I also understand what God's will for all men as described in 1 Timothy 2.And I am not denying God's holy judgment. I don't believe that the judgment is eternal hell.

Quote:
If the penalty of an eternal hell is what happens to the lost for all of eternity and if God loves all men, why not the warning at the beginning of time?


As I said before, I think that, even without knowing of Hell, they had cause to expect and fear God's judgment of sin. Today, with the knowledge of Hell before them, people carry on more or less as the Israelites did in the OT. For this reason, I don't think knowing of Hell would have made much, if any, difference to the conduct of OT people

.

We don't know, but we do know that today may say they have come to God because they fear eternal hell. If the threat of God's judgments never had an effect on His chosen people, why did He warn them time and time again. Why does He speak of those times when they would return to Him?

Quote:
Why is this eternal punishment not screaming from every page of the Holy Scriptures?


What kind of a book would the Bible be if it were? It would be quite horrible, I think! Obviously, there was more that God wanted us to know. I'm sure God, being the perfect being that He is, mentioned Hell just the right number of times in HIs Word. Goodness! You'd think once would be enough!

For all to hear? I don't believe that the Bible would be horrible if God who will have all men to be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth, revealed this to all men, or gave all men the opportunity to have access to this truth, if eternal hell is the truth. In fact, it would be much more horrible to withhold this horrible fate from those that He says that He loves and will come to a knowledge of the truth. especially knowing ahead of time the deceitfulness of sin and the problem with the human heart. But then again, I don't believe that this is the truth, and that this is one reason why it is not screaming from every page in the Holy Scriptures.

Quote:
but God is also described as the Savior of all men.


This is a potential truth, not an actual one. "Wide is the road and narrow the gate", remember?

Well, I disagree that God is only the potential Savior. He is described as the Savior and my understanding of the narrow road and gate differ from yours. If you are interested in reading about this difference, I direct you to the numerous threads in the Apologetic section which discuss this understanding or belief.

Quote:

Evidently God's love overrules any "hatred" for men as described in the scriptures because Jesus died for the wicked, for us believers who were once wicked. Jesus taught us to love our enemies and to be perfect as our Heavenly Father is perfect. It follows then that God loves His enemies, the wicked.God bless.


As I think I've shown, its not quite that simple, Shana.

This was posted to show that God loves and in intersted in wicked men. If He is angry with the wicked every day, evidently, He still loves them.I don't believe that there is anything simple about the love of God. Jesus has taught us who the Father is and we realize from the teachings of Jesus , that God loves all men, enemies included. He loved us before and when we were sinners being in opposition to His holiness.No, the love of God cannot be diminished because without the love of God (who is described as God), He would not have given His Son for sinful men, and this is the greatest gift. I believe that God's love overrules any hatred (and the word used to describe Esau ranges from intense hatred to simple opposition, from what I understand) for man. Jesus was designed to be Esau's Savior before was even born or had committed any sin, as Jesus gave Himself for all men. Thanks for your feedback and God bless you.