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And these signs shall follow them that believe;

OzSpen said:
"The scriptures that speak of regeneration by water baptism [as interpreted by Jim Parker, but not so by many other commentators]
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Not so by many MODERN REVISIONIST commentators but uniformly by those commentators from the early church whom those modern, western, revisionists choose to ignore.
 
spirit quickens The Spirit gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life. john 6:63 water never made any one holy or regenerated
 
ezra said:
spirit quickens The Spirit gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life. john 6:63 water never made any one holy or regenerated
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In John chapter 6, John isn't talking about regeneration by water baptism; he's talking about the Eucharist.
And, since he isn't saying anything about regeneration by water baptism in that passage, you can not say that it proves anything about water.
So, of course nothing in John 6:36 doesn't say that water ever made anyone holy or regenerated. Why would it? That's a totally different topic from what John was speaking of there.
Jesus specifically DID SAY that you have to be born again (regenerated) in water AND in spirit at John 3:3-5.
Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?”
Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
In THAT passage, Jesus IS talking about being born again (regenerated) in water AND in the Spirit.
You cannot refute a passage that does talk about regeneration in water and Spirit by quoting another passage that does not say anything whatsoever about regeneration.
You have taken one verse out of its context and tried to force it to say something it was never meant to say.
 
Jim Parker said:
In John chapter 6, John isn't talking about regeneration by water baptism; he's talking about the Eucharist.
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hogwash the Eucharist does not give life never has never will i have took nothing out of context .it is all in alignment of regeneration you have a combination of r.c and Orthodox theology. which is incorrect
THE MEANING OF REGENERATION
The English word “regeneration” is the translation of palingenesia, from palin (again) and genesis (birth). It means simply a new birth, a new beginning, a new order.

Question: "What is regeneration according to the Bible?"

Answer: Another word for regeneration is rebirth, related to the biblical phrase “born again.” Our rebirth is distinguished from our first birth, when we were conceived physically and inherited our sin nature. The new birth is a spiritual, holy, and heavenly birth that results in our being made alive spiritually. Man in his natural state is “dead in trespasses and sins” until he is “made alive” (regenerated) by Christ. This happens when he places his faith in Christ (Ephesians 2:1).

Regeneration is a radical change. Just as our physical birth resulted in a new individual entering the earthly realm, our spiritual birth results in a new person entering the heavenly realm (Ephesians 2:6). After regeneration, we begin to see and hear and seek after divine things; we begin to live a life of faith and holiness. Now Christ is formed in the hearts; now we are partakers of the divine nature, having been made new creatures (2 Corinthians 5:17). God, not man, is the source of this transformation (Ephesians 2:1, 8). God’s great love and free gift, His rich grace and abundant mercy, are the cause of the rebirth. The mighty power of God—the power that raised Christ from the dead—is displayed in the regeneration and conversion of sinners (Ephesians 1:19–20).

Regeneration is necessary. Sinful human flesh cannot stand in God’s presence. In His conversation with Nicodemus, Jesus said twice that a man must be born again in order to see the kingdom of God (John 3:3, 7). Regeneration is not optional, for “flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit” (John 3:6). Physical birth fits us for earth; spiritual rebirth fits us for heaven. See Ephesians 2:1; 1 Peter 1:23; John 1:13; 1 John 3:9; 4:7; 5:1, 4, 18. Regeneration is part of what God does for us at the moment of salvation, along with sealing (Ephesians 1:14), adoption (Galatians 4:5), reconciliation (2 Corinthians 5:18–20), etc. Regeneration is God’s making a person spiritually alive, as a result of faith in Jesus Christ. Prior to salvation we were not God’s children (John 1:12–13); rather, we were children of wrath (Ephesians 2:3; Romans 5:18–20). Before salvation, we were degenerate; after salvation we are regenerated. The result of regeneration is peace with God (Romans 5:1), new life (Titus 3:5; 2 Corinthians 5:17), and eternal sonship (John 1:12–13; Galatians 3:26). Regeneration begins the process of sanctification wherein we become the people God intends us to be (Romans 8:28–30).

The only means of regeneration is by faith in the finished work of Christ on the cross. No amount of good works or keeping of the Law can regenerate the heart. “By works of the law no human being will be justified in [God’s] sight” (Romans 3:20). Only Christ offers a cure for the total depravity of the human heart. We don’t need renovation or reformation or reorganization; we need rebirth.
https://www.gotquestions.org/regeneration-Bible.html

" Jesus specifically DID SAY that you have to be born again (regenerated) in water" he did while given the term water is mentioned ..but we are dealing with the spiritual birth . the holy spirit is not in the water . if you insist to hold on to your theory .. so be it .but ponder this not one poster here agrees with (regenerated) in water i mean no disrespect i have many friends who believe different from me. i even attend a men prayer breakfast at our church and we we have a man who attends who is catholic.. he believes in purgatory .. saying that i respect him but totally reject purgatory just like water regeneration


2 Corinthians 3:6 - who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the {Spirit gives life.} Jesus said it paul said it communion is sacred and should be done in the spirit, it is your mine personal time to reflect on what Jesus done for us. do this in remembrance of me :amen:readbible
 
Jim Parker said:
yep
that's what you post
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well thanks for your insult . i still respect your belief .i totally disagree %100 i find no merit at all in your water regeneration . i took the time out with scripture showing spirit gives life not Eucharistic this a apologetic section i have done my best using scripture.. BTW when i say hog wash it means i disagree with it --dont buy it... i reject it ......... having said that i will follow what proverb writer has to say ....you figure it out.....
 
dirtfarmer here

If you take an "ole hog" that has been in mud all his life and "baptize" him in water, it will not be long before he is back in the mire and cover with mud. If that "ole hog" has a changed heart by the Spirit of God, he ain't going back to the mire. So how does that "ole hog" get a new heart, by dying to self and being resurrected with Christ as a new creation (creature) with Christ's life being lived in and through him.It is by faith that we are to live not by ordinances of man, or by being washed with water.
 
Jim Parker said:
Not so by many MODERN REVISIONIST commentators but uniformly by those commentators from the early church whom those modern, western, revisionists choose to ignore.
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Who are these 'many MODERN REVISIONIST commentators'?

Generalisations don't help, Jim.
 
Papa Zoom said:
:wall
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I'm not about to get into thir weird argument. I just posted to say what happened to your avatar of you holding the pistols? I liked that one. By the time I noticed the pistols then you changed the avatar the next day, lol.

Good morning Brothers and Sisters! Let's be at peace today, shall we? We don't have to be snarky. It takes a better heart to ignore snarkyism than it does to respond with more, even veiled snarks. :nono
 
Edward said:
I'm not about to get into thir weird argument. I just posted to say what happened to your avatar of you holding the pistols? I liked that one. By the time I noticed the pistols then you changed the avatar the next day, lol.

Good morning Brothers and Sisters! Let's be at peace today, shall we? We don't have to be snarky. It takes a better heart to ignore snarkyism than it does to respond with more, even veiled snarks. :nono
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Good post. I'm going through some favorite pictures. ;) As for the snark, I agree. I should be more aggressive and just delete it all but that disrupts the flow of the discussions.

I will say this and YES I am aiming this at all of you who snark and insult and condescend: It a total irony that you claim to hold the word of God as the ultimate authority and YET you IGNORE the parts where you're supposed to be humble, parse your words with salt and grace, think of others more highly than yourself, and serve others as Christ served you.

It shouldn't be that way.
 
Papa Zoom said:
I'm up with that (or is it down with that? I can't get that one straight)
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hello Papa Zoom, dirtfarmer here

I understand that you are a retired teacher and some of your previous students might be observing your grammer, but it doesn't matter if your grammer is correct, just be at the community hogwashing.
dirtfarmer request your presence at the festivities( by the way, this is your invitation)
 
Jim Parker said:
Jesus specifically DID SAY that you have to be born again (regenerated) in water AND in spirit at John 3:3-5.
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Baptismal Regeneration obsession created by reinventing the scriptures.
More then likely you have a really really bad translation of the bible that did this to you.

so, let me help you.

"you must be born OF water, and OF the Spirit".

Notice....these are 2 separate BIRTHS... and the LORD is actually teaching that one is natural and one is spiritual.
And he is not talking about John's baptism of repentance, as this is the only one AT THE TIME Jesus is speaking about,= that He would be explaining.
So, what we have here, is the Lord making a distinction between natural child birth where a woman's water BREAKS, (born of WATER), as compared to the "born again" by the SPIRIT birth....."you must be BORN AGAIN".....as in YOU MUST BE BORN TWICE.
ONCE HERE FROM THE WOMB, AND ONCE IN THE SPIRIT BY THE HOLY SPIRIT.

 
Kidron said:
Baptismal Regeneration obsession created by reinventing the scriptures.
More then likely you have a really really bad translation of the bible that did this to you.

so, let me help you.

"you must be born OF water, and OF the Spirit".

Notice....these are 2 separate BIRTHS... and the LORD is actually teaching that one is natural and one is spiritual.
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Kidron,

That's not what John 3:5 states in the Greek, which reads: 5 ἀπεκρίθη Ἰησοῦς· Ἀμὴν ἀμὴν λέγω σοι, ἐὰν μή τις γεννηθῇ ἐξ ὕδατος καὶ πνεύματος, οὐ δύναται εἰσελθεῖν εἰς τὴν βασιλείαν τοῦ θεοῦ (emphasis added).

There is only one 'of/out of' (ἐξ) and it modifies 'water and spirit'. The Greek does not state 'unless a person is born of water and of Spirit he cannot enter the kingdom of God'. The second 'of' is missing.

Oz
 
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