AndThen???

[Hitch]

In light of the NT teaching that the church is ;

the children of God R 8;16
household of God E 2;19
Abe's seed G 3;7
children of the promise G 4;28
elect of God Col 3;12
heirs of God R 8;17
heirs according to the promise G 3;29
the temple of God I Cor 3;16
the circumcision Ph 3;3
the Israel of God G 6;16
A chosen generation
A royal priesthood
A peculiar people 1 P 2;9
Heirs if the Kingdom Jas 2;5
sons of God Jn 1;12
Kings and priests unto God Rev 1;6
the new Jerusalem Rev 3;12
the holy city Rev 21;2
the people of God H 4;9
Mount Sion H 12;22
the heavenly Jerusalem


what is left for the physical nation ?

Once and Future Israel R B Yerby p 47

 

[reba]

What does Scripture have to do with anything?

 

[tim-from-pa]

In light of the NT teaching that the church is ;

the children of God R 8;16
household of God E 2;19
Abe's seed G 3;7
children of the promise G 4;28
elect of God Col 3;12
heirs of God R 8;17
heirs according to the promise G 3;29
the temple of God I Cor 3;16
the circumcision Ph 3;3
the Israel of God G 6;16
A chosen generation
A royal priesthood
A peculiar people 1 P 2;9
Heirs if the Kingdom Jas 2;5
sons of God Jn 1;12
Kings and priests unto God Rev 1;6
the new Jerusalem Rev 3;12
the holy city Rev 21;2
the people of God H 4;9
Mount Sion H 12;22
the heavenly Jerusalem


what is left for the physical nation ?

Once and Future Israel R B Yerby p 47

The physical people of Israel will be converted to enjoy these spiritual counterparts. The physical is the earthly antetype that demonstrates these same spiritual promises and will be conjoined. In other words, the purpose is for the spiritual Kingdom of God to be made realized here in the presence of this physical realm--- the two are together just as surely as a coin has a heads and tails.

 

[Hitch]

The physical people of Israel will be converted to enjoy these spiritual counterparts.

Paul quoted the prophet saying 2 Corinthians 6:2
(For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation , who are you to say otherwise?

The physical is the earthly antetype that demonstrates these same spiritual promises and will be conjoined. In other words, the purpose is for the spiritual Kingdom of God to be made realized here in the presence of this physical realm--- the two are together just as surely as a coin has a heads and tails.

Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

Paul tells us the pattern, first the natural ,then the spiritual.

 

[warhorse]

In light of the NT teaching that the church is ;

the children of God R 8;16
household of God E 2;19
Abe's seed G 3;7
children of the promise G 4;28
elect of God Col 3;12
heirs of God R 8;17
heirs according to the promise G 3;29
the temple of God I Cor 3;16
the circumcision Ph 3;3
the Israel of God G 6;16
A chosen generation
A royal priesthood
A peculiar people 1 P 2;9
Heirs if the Kingdom Jas 2;5
sons of God Jn 1;12
Kings and priests unto God Rev 1;6
the new Jerusalem Rev 3;12
the holy city Rev 21;2
the people of God H 4;9
Mount Sion H 12;22
the heavenly Jerusalem


what is left for the physical nation ?

Once and Future Israel R B Yerby p 47

Destruction as God Gathers the nations against them, and then pours his wrath out in there defense.

 

[Hitch]

Destruction as God Gathers the nations against them, and then pours his wrath out in there defense.

Why would God defend an antiChrist nation?

 

[warhorse]

Why would God defend an antiChrist nation?

Zec 14v 1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

 

[jasoncran]

i have deleted my posts, kindly edit yours.

thanks, hitch

 

[Hitch]

Zec 14v 1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

Well we know the Lord walked on Olivet and we know he personally opened the well of living water;

John 4:10
Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.

 

[tim-from-pa]

Paul quoted the prophet saying 2 Corinthians 6:2
(For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation , who are you to say otherwise?

Look at the context. He's speaking to the Brethren. This passage merely states that when God calls a person or people, one better heed (there's no guarantee of another chance). That's not to say that all are called now. Do you know the purpose of the church? They are not the subjects unto Christ the way most people think of subjects, albeit they are submissive to Christ. The purpose of the church are to be Kings and Priests and show God's Law to the fallen world. They are firstfruits of a larger harvest. To do that, this presupposes there is a Kingdom and people to rule over, and that brings me to the next point.....

Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

Paul tells us the pattern, first the natural ,then the spiritual.

That is true, except God's not done with the physical yet. There's the Kingdom to come yet, otherwise how can Christ take the earthly throne of King David? How about the myriads of prophecy where Jesus would rule over all the house for Jacob? It will be all spiritual with the new heavens and new earth after this present age. This is the old earth yet, how can we say that all the spiritual came yet? Likewise, people still die in Adam yet, how can this all be spiritual?

If you continue on with that passage, you will see Paul is contrasting Adam and Christ, the old earthly with the new spiritual. But in the same breath we can see that the resurrection, and the coming Kingdom are each "in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming."

It would pay you to study the Feasts of the Lord, and the Jewish calendar, for therein lies rich resources of prophecy that lay out God's plan. The Gregorian, solar calendar "changed the times" so that people remain in darkness.

 

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by tim-from-pa
The physical people of Israel will be converted to enjoy these spiritual counterparts.

Look at the context. He's speaking to the Brethren.

LOL He is quoting Isa 49;
1Listen, O isles, unto me; and hearken, ye people, from far; The LORD hath called me from the womb; from the bowels of my mother hath he made mention of my name.
2And he hath made my mouth like a sharp sword; in the shadow of his hand hath he hid me, and made me a polished shaft; in his quiver hath he hid me;
3And said unto me, Thou art my servant, O Israel, in whom I will be glorified.
4Then I said, I have laboured in vain, I have spent my strength for nought, and in vain: yet surely my judgment is with the LORD, and my work with my God.
5And now, saith the LORD that formed me from the womb to be his servant, to bring Jacob again to him, Though Israel be not gathered, yet shall I be glorious in the eyes of the LORD, and my God shall be my strength.
6And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.
7Thus saith the LORD, the Redeemer of Israel, and his Holy One, to him whom man despiseth, to him whom the nation abhorreth, to a servant of rulers, Kings shall see and arise, princes also shall worship, because of the LORD that is faithful, and the Holy One of Israel, and he shall choose thee.
8Thus saith the LORD, In an acceptable time have I heard thee, and in a day of salvation have I helped thee: and I will preserve thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, to establish the earth, to cause to inherit the desolate heritages;

Paul in apostolic mitre declares that now is the time, you are contrary .

This passage merely states that when God calls a person or people, one better heed (there's no guarantee of another chance). That's not to say that all are called now.

LOL you're exactly backwards

Do you know the purpose of the church? They are not the subjects unto Christ the way most people think of subjects, albeit they are submissive to Christ. The purpose of the church are to be Kings and Priests and show God's Law to the fallen world. They are firstfruits of a larger harvest. To do that, this presupposes there is a Kingdom and people to rule over, and that brings me to the next point.....

dont bother

That is true, except God's not done with the physical yet. There's the Kingdom to come yet, otherwise how can Christ take the earthly throne of King David?

You're crackin me up. You dont have to believe me but you do have to believe Paul, firs t the natuaral then the spiritual, and since your program doesnt fit the pattern its obvious where the error lies. Dave's throne was a type/shadow of the throne Christ occupies today, the lessor points toward the greater, not the other way around

How about the myriads of prophecy where Jesus would rule over all the house for Jacob?

Well I listed for you in the OP who and what is the hier to the various promises, in fact the very passage you said Paul was speaking to the 'bretheren' includes this line;6And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.

It will be all spiritual with the new heavens and new earth after this present age. This is the old earth yet, how can we say that all the spiritual came yet?

LMBO Did you miss the whole story about the cross and resurrection? Obviously you have developed your plan in ignorance, or rebellion, of the passages listed on the OP

Likewise, people still die in Adam yet, how can this all be spiritual?

People will live and die inthe flesh so long as history continues

If you continue on with that passage, you will see Paul is contrasting Adam and Christ, the old earthly with the new spiritual. But in the same breath we can see that the resurrection, and the coming Kingdom are each "in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming."

Ahh believers are said to be 'in Christ', perhaps you missed that somewhere along the line.

It would pay you to study the Feasts of the Lord, and the Jewish calendar, for therein lies rich resources of prophecy that lay out God's plan. The Gregorian, solar calendar "changed the times" so that people remain in darkness.

You cant even deal with the plainly stated facts listed in the OP.

 

[Hitch]

Please; If you're planning to respond at least address part of the OP.

The focus here is on apostolic definitions of Old Testament terms applied to the church.

 

[tim-from-pa]

Isaiah 49 deals with Israel, namely those in the lost tribes state, which BTW have not historically gotten back together with Judah. Plain historical fact. But the bible predicts they one day will get back together again so obviously there is more to come. Paul is the first to use that passage of himself and by extension his ministry. And these lost tribes would become the purveyors of the gospel message, i.e. the house of Israel.

LOL you're exactly backwards

Once a COP stopped a drunk going the wrong way and asked the drunk, "Do you know this is a one-way street?" The drunk argued that he was only going one way! Just as you are dutifully doing, I'm sure.

Like it or lump it, the purpose for the church is to rule and reign with Christ as Christ over the rest of the world. That's stated plainly in Revelation 1:6.

I won't argue regarding the spiritual, I'm not denying that. I'm saying that there's another side of the coin in effect yet as evidenced that the Kingdom on earth did not come yet.

There is nothing in the bible that says the throne of King David was moved to heaven. The bible is full of genealogies regarding that as well as other promises called "birthright" which is what one has by rights of birth (and such a chosen person is not necessarily a saved person---- these are earthly promises I'm talking about promised to specific genealogical lineages). The throne is one of them, and must be claimed by one of righteousness, not the way it is now. This throne was promised to go thru all generations, even until now until Christ takes it.

Just look at what's going on over in Israel right now. If that's all insignificant, than why is it happening according to some people who predicted that and claimed the bible was their source of information and prophecy?

 

[tim-from-pa]

We crossed each other, regarding the OP, I did answer that. It's just that it's not to your liking.

 

[Hitch]

Isaiah 49 deals with Israel, namely those in the lost tribes state, which BTW have not historically gotten back together with Judah. Plain historical fact. But the bible predicts they one day will get back together again so obviously there is more to come. Paul is the first to use that passage of himself and by extension his ministry. And these lost tribes would become the purveyors of the gospel message, i.e. the house of Israel.

Paul set the time Issy spoke of and you are contrary, I dont care how many feathers you paste on it . You have rebelliously posted that salvation for the jews is yet to come

Once a COP stopped a drunk going the wrong way and asked the drunk, "Do you know this is a one-way street?" The drunk argued that he was only going one way! Just as you are dutifully doing, I'm sure.

Like it or lump it, the purpose for the church is to rule and reign with Christ as Christ over the rest of the world. That's stated plainly in Revelation 1:6.

Since the church is seated with Christ in heavenly places and joint heir with him she is ruling with him today. Teh believer reigns in life through Christ.

I won't argue regarding the spiritual, I'm not denying that. I'm saying that there's another side of the coin in effect yet as evidenced that the Kingdom on earth did not come yet.

First the natural then the spiritual, so long as you are contrary to apostolic teaching you'll remain in the muck .

There is nothing in the bible that says the throne of King David was moved to heaven. The bible is full of genealogies regarding that as well as other promises called "birthright" which is what one has by rights of birth (and such a chosen person is not necessarily a saved person---- these are earthly promises I'm talking about promised to specific genealogical lineages).

see the OP

The throne is one of them, and must be claimed by one of righteousness, not the way it is now. This throne was promised to go thru all generations, even until now until Christ takes it.

LOL Christ was exalted ,to that throne, he is the King of Glory, and Dave's throne was typical of that , subordinate. Our Lord occupies the seat at the Right Hand of Power, that is the highest seat there is.

Just look at what's going on over in Israel right now. If that's all insignificant, than why is it happening according to some people who predicted that and claimed the bible was their source of information and prophecy?

LOL You mean the same folks who told us the 'rapture' would come @1948+40 years? Or the fol s who told us the church would be raptured before the formation of modern Israel, or thousands of other failed systems?

 

[Hitch]

We crossed each other, regarding the OP, I did answer that. It's just that it's not to your liking.

nahh you've just soap-boxed with out addressing the specifics.

 

[tim-from-pa]

Paul set the time Issy spoke of and you are contrary, I dont care how many feathers you paste on it . You have rebelliously posted that salvation for the jews is yet to come

So, when is that time? after Christ's death? That's what I mean, too. I am extremely familiar with Isaiah 49 and there's no feathers pasted on it. The topic of Isaiah 49 is to the lost house of Israel in the Isles. It says so at the start. Theologians agree with that premise as well. First thing I googled came up the same. Now who Israel became is where I differ, but no serious theologian denies this passage talks about Israel and the Messiah, oftentimes used interchangeably. And notice I said Israel. They are different than the Jews.

I am aware of what the OP says. But none of those things negates the eternal Davidic throne. It still exists and is promised to a seed of David in spite of the spiritual promises. Again, there's a heads and tails. Before the NT, the people only saw the tails. Now heads finally turned up, but the compliments, not negates the tails.

And again, I'm not saying Jews cannot be saved now. I'm saying that there will be a time when those who now do not believe will one day look upon him whom they pierced. And the days are coming when God will make a New Covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah. I don't see Jews today giving credence to that covenant yet.

As for Rapture timing, that's not what I am talking about. The church is a different entity than national Israel. I am talking nationally returning again to the land of Israel. The Jews and Israelites both own that land---- the border descriptions of the land were never fully realized even though God said they would one day have it. That's prophecy and that's a fact.

 

[Sinthesis]

Why would God defend an antiChrist nation?

Because their continued existence in their current form still glorifies The Father.:shocked!

 

[Hitch]

Because their continued existence in their current form still glorifies The Father.:shocked!

22Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

How?

 

[Hitch]

So, when is that time? after Christ's death? That's what I mean, too. I am extremely familiar with Isaiah 49 and there's no feathers pasted on it. The topic of Isaiah 49 is to the lost house of Israel in the Isles. It says so at the start. Theologians agree with that premise as well. First thing I googled came up the same. Now who Israel became is where I differ, but no serious theologian denies this passage talks about Israel and the Messiah, oftentimes used interchangeably. And notice I said Israel. They are different than the Jews.

Paul applies directly to the church, even though Jacob and Israel are named within.

I am aware of what the OP says. But none of those things negates the eternal Davidic throne.

Things that are seen are temporal things unseen are spiritual and eternal . And this promise was kept;
3And the LORD said unto him, I have heard thy prayer and thy supplication, that thou hast made before me: I have hallowed this house, which thou hast built, to put my name there for ever; and mine eyes and mine heart shall be there perpetually.
4And if thou wilt walk before me, as David thy father walked, in integrity of heart, and in uprightness, to do according to all that I have commanded thee, and wilt keep my statutes and my judgments:
5Then I will establish the throne of thy kingdom upon Israel for ever, as I promised to David thy father, saying, There shall not fail thee a man upon the throne of Israel.
6But if ye shall at all turn from following me, ye or your children, and will not keep my commandments and my statutes which I have set before you, but go and serve other gods, and worship them:
7Then will I cut off Israel out of the land which I have given them; and this house, which I have hallowed for my name, will I cast out of my sight; and Israel shall be a proverb and a byword among all people:

Will you try to say these conditions were met?

It still exists and is promised to a seed of David in spite of the spiritual promises.

see above

Again, there's a heads and tails. Before the NT, the people only saw the tails. Now heads finally turned up, but the compliments, not negates the tails.

And again, I'm not saying Jews cannot be saved now. I'm saying that there will be a time when those who now do not believe will one day look upon him whom they pierced.

So your're putting salvation for jews at some future point in rebellion against God who declared now is the time. Further you have ignored Jonh's declaration of fulfillment wrt to that passage

And the days are coming when God will make a New Covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah.

Oh for Pete's sake, that is the covenant Christ announced at the Last Supper , and all in attendance were jew s

I don't see Jews today giving credence to that covenant yet.

Your blindness is evident

As for Rapture timing, that's not what I am talking about. The church is a different entity than national Israel. I am talking nationally returning again to the land of Israel. The Jews and Israelites both own that land---- the border descriptions of the land were never fully realized even though God said they would one day have it. That's prophecy and that's a fact.

Joshua 21:43
And the LORD gave unto Israel all the land which he sware to give unto their fathers; and they possessed it, and dwelt therein.