Angels

[Rodger]

What do angels really look like?

And what do they do?

Say Dave.......do you have any Scriptural evidence of Angels having an earthly ministry in the "Church Age".

The Church Age is the time from when the Holy Spirit came in Acts 1 to the Rapture in Rev. 4:1.

Angels today, are depicted as sweet, gentle, benign, humanlike figures with illustrious wings, white robes, golden halos, and a soft glow. It is said that they offer comfort, soothe our worries, and sometimes provide protection from various troubles.

I ask this question simply because it isn’t how they are typically described in the Church Age Scripture.

Next question........How many "Arch Angels" are said to be in the Scriptures?

​

 

[RedPill]

Eze 1:10 As for the likeness of their faces, each had a human face. The four had the face of a lion on the right side, the four had the face of an ox on the left side, and the four had the face of an eagle.
Eze 1:11 Such were their faces. And their wings were spread out above. Each creature had two wings, each of which touched the wing of another, while two covered their bodies. (ESV)

They had four faces, only one of which was that of a human. It doesn't even say they were male faces. You might also note that humans don't have four faces, nor any number of wings.

What is Satan’s natural countenance?

God told the prophet Ezekiel to “take up a lamentation” against the king of Tyre (Ezekiel 28:12), which meant he was to repeatedly utter the lament in public for all to hear. This was a common method of the prophets. In some cases, they would cry the same identical words every day for a year or more until everyone, whether they wanted to or not, had memorized it word-for-word. The lamentation denounced the king by comparing him to Lucifer (Satan) in both his pomp and power and his certain demise.

From that passage (Ezekiel 28:11-19), and several others, we learn the following facts about Satan:

* He was created by God and was originally perfect, beautiful and wise (Ezekiel 28:12, 15, 17).

* He is a cherub (Ezekiel 28:14).

* He was called a “son of God” (Job 1:6; 2:1; 38:7).

* He was created before the six days of creation recorded in Genesis 1 (Job 38:4-7).

* He was “anointed,” which is a term denoting the bestowment of a sacred trust (Ezekiel 28:14).

* He radiated “brightness,” which is a word found 22 times in the Holy Bible and is exclusively associated with the glory that radiates from a supreme potentate (Ezekiel 28:17).

* He was originally covered with precious stones, as were the high priests (Ezekiel 28:13).

* He had musical pipes in his body, which made him an organic musical instrument (Ezekiel 28:13).

* He was associated with a throne (Isaiah 14:13).

* He is the author and originator of sin, murder and lying (Ezekiel 28:15; John 8:44; 1 John 3:8).

* His original sin involved merchandising (Ezekiel 28:16).

* His original assignment, before he sinned, was located on the earth, for he would “ascend into heaven,” “above the heights of the clouds,” but he shall be “cut down to the ground” and “brought down to hell” (Isaiah 14:12-15).
Further, Satan was “in Eden” before he sinned, which is a piece of geography on the earth where God later placed a garden in which he put Adam and Eve (Ezekiel 28:13).

Ezekiel, chapter one, records a vision given to the prophet. It contains a peculiar detail that, at first, seems to be irrelevant, but is given special attention by twice telling us the precise day and location of the vision he experienced (Ezekiel 1:1-3). Ezekiel said he was “among the captives by the river of Chebar” (Ezekiel 1:1, 3) where he sees what he calls “four living creatures” (Ezekiel 1:5). After describing their bodies, he tells us that “every one had four faces” (Ezekiel 1:6) i.e. each creature had four different faces. “As for the likeness of their faces, they four had the face of a man, and the face of a lion, on the right side: and they four had the face of an ox on the left side; they four also had the face of an eagle” (Ezekiel 1:10).

Now here’s where we do a little detective work. Ten chapters later, he again refers to the living creatures with the four faces (Ezekiel 10:14-15) from the river of Chebar location (Ezekiel 10:20-22). However, this time, when he describes their faces, there is a difference. “And every one had four faces: the first face was the face of a cherub, and the second face was the face of a man, and the third the face of a lion, and the fourth the face of an eagle” (Ezekiel 10:14).

In both descriptions, three of the faces (man, lion and eagle) are the same, but in the second instance, he associates a cherub’s face with the ox. So God has revealed to us that the face of a cherub appears as that of an ox.

Therefore, Lucifer (Satan), an anointed cherub, has a countenance as that of an ox. The form most often used by idol worshippers is that of an ox. Baal was worshipped in the form of an ox. When Satan inspires men to worship, it is in the form of an ox (or a serpent/dragon, Lucifer’s later image). (Source)

 

[Free]

What is Satan’s natural countenance?

God told the prophet Ezekiel to “take up a lamentation” against the king of Tyre (Ezekiel 28:12), which meant he was to repeatedly utter the lament in public for all to hear. This was a common method of the prophets. In some cases, they would cry the same identical words every day for a year or more until everyone, whether they wanted to or not, had memorized it word-for-word. The lamentation denounced the king by comparing him to Lucifer (Satan) in both his pomp and power and his certain demise.

From that passage (Ezekiel 28:11-19), and several others, we learn the following facts about Satan:

* He was created by God and was originally perfect, beautiful and wise (Ezekiel 28:12, 15, 17).

* He is a cherub (Ezekiel 28:14).

* He was called a “son of God” (Job 1:6; 2:1; 38:7).

* He was created before the six days of creation recorded in Genesis 1 (Job 38:4-7).

* He was “anointed,” which is a term denoting the bestowment of a sacred trust (Ezekiel 28:14).

* He radiated “brightness,” which is a word found 22 times in the Holy Bible and is exclusively associated with the glory that radiates from a supreme potentate (Ezekiel 28:17).

* He was originally covered with precious stones, as were the high priests (Ezekiel 28:13).

* He had musical pipes in his body, which made him an organic musical instrument (Ezekiel 28:13).

* He was associated with a throne (Isaiah 14:13).

* He is the author and originator of sin, murder and lying (Ezekiel 28:15; John 8:44; 1 John 3:8).

* His original sin involved merchandising (Ezekiel 28:16).

* His original assignment, before he sinned, was located on the earth, for he would “ascend into heaven,” “above the heights of the clouds,” but he shall be “cut down to the ground” and “brought down to hell” (Isaiah 14:12-15).
Further, Satan was “in Eden” before he sinned, which is a piece of geography on the earth where God later placed a garden in which he put Adam and Eve (Ezekiel 28:13).

Ezekiel, chapter one, records a vision given to the prophet. It contains a peculiar detail that, at first, seems to be irrelevant, but is given special attention by twice telling us the precise day and location of the vision he experienced (Ezekiel 1:1-3). Ezekiel said he was “among the captives by the river of Chebar” (Ezekiel 1:1, 3) where he sees what he calls “four living creatures” (Ezekiel 1:5). After describing their bodies, he tells us that “every one had four faces” (Ezekiel 1:6) i.e. each creature had four different faces. “As for the likeness of their faces, they four had the face of a man, and the face of a lion, on the right side: and they four had the face of an ox on the left side; they four also had the face of an eagle” (Ezekiel 1:10).

Now here’s where we do a little detective work. Ten chapters later, he again refers to the living creatures with the four faces (Ezekiel 10:14-15) from the river of Chebar location (Ezekiel 10:20-22). However, this time, when he describes their faces, there is a difference. “And every one had four faces: the first face was the face of a cherub, and the second face was the face of a man, and the third the face of a lion, and the fourth the face of an eagle” (Ezekiel 10:14).

In both descriptions, three of the faces (man, lion and eagle) are the same, but in the second instance, he associates a cherub’s face with the ox. So God has revealed to us that the face of a cherub appears as that of an ox.

Therefore, Lucifer (Satan), an anointed cherub, has a countenance as that of an ox. The form most often used by idol worshippers is that of an ox. Baal was worshipped in the form of an ox. When Satan inspires men to worship, it is in the form of an ox (or a serpent/dragon, Lucifer’s later image). (Source)

As you stated, Eze. 28 is about the king of Tyre, it literally says so in verse 12, so it is not about Satan. Isa. 14 is not about Satan either, it says in verse 4 that it is about the king of Babylon. And there is no being called Lucifer in the Bible.

 

[RedPill]

As you stated, Eze. 28 is about the king of Tyre, it literally says so in verse 12, so it is not about Satan. Isa. 14 is not about Satan either, it says in verse 4 that it is about the king of Babylon. And there is no being called Lucifer in the Bible.

Admittedly, this can be a difficult passage to interpret. There are many who believe that this is a description of the account of the original fall of Satan. Though some of the descriptions given may fit the historical king of Tyre, others certainly do not seem to. These include the expressions: "perfect in beauty," "you were in Eden," "you were on the holy mountain of God," and "you were blameless." These descriptions would not fit the actual king of Tyre. Therefore they are most likely to be understood as statements about the original fall of the angel who became the Devil.

Tyrus/Tyre was the founder of the city Tyrus/Tyre.

Ezekiel chapter 28, verses 12-19:

Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.

[The King of Tyre is not described as human at all. He is described as a guardian cherub, an angelic being (Ezekiel 28:14). Because of his pride he was thrown down from the mountain of God to the earth.]

Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God [Q: Who has been in the garden? A: Satan] ; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

[Satan, not the king of Tyre, was an organic musical instrument - he had his instruments built into his body! Also, there is evidence he led worship in heaven. It is no surprise that the world is presently bathed in his perverted "music."]

Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

[Satan, not the king of Tyre, is an anointed cherub - one special class of angelic beings. And "stones of fire" is a reference to heavenly objects.]

Thou [Satan, not the king of Tyre] wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

[etc. etc.]

By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.

Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.

Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.

All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.

The lamentation denounced the king by comparing him to Lucifer (Satan) in both his pomp and power and his certain demise.

[Lucifer - as per Isaiah 14:12] - How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

Free posted:

And there is no being called Lucifer in the Bible.

You're probably using a copyrighted version of the Holy Bible, which has removed "Lucifer" (among many other things). New Bible versions have removed the identification of Lucifer as the one who fell and substituted a name for Jesus Christ.

 

[myangelsb4u]

Here are some biblically actuate angels.

 

[Free]

Admittedly, this can be a difficult passage to interpret. There are many who believe that this is a description of the account of the original fall of Satan. Though some of the descriptions given may fit the historical king of Tyre, others certainly do not seem to. These include the expressions: "perfect in beauty," "you were in Eden," "you were on the holy mountain of God," and "you were blameless." These descriptions would not fit the actual king of Tyre. Therefore they are most likely to be understood as statements about the original fall of the angel who became the Devil.

Based on what, exactly? Unless you have other evidence, you have no basis to claim that any of those descriptions "certainly do not seem to" "fit the historical king of Tyre," nor to come to the conclusion that "they are most likely to be understood as statements about the original fall of the angel who became the Devil."

It's all fallaciously begging the question. You're assuming the very thing you're trying to prove, without basis for doing so.

Tyrus/Tyre was the founder of the city Tyrus/Tyre.

Ezekiel chapter 28, verses 12-19:

Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.

[The King of Tyre is not described as human at all. He is described as a guardian cherub, an angelic being (Ezekiel 28:14). Because of his pride he was thrown down from the mountain of God to the earth.]

Metaphors; figures of speech. They're used often in the Bible.

Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God [Q: Who has been in the garden? A: Satan] ; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

[Satan, not the king of Tyre, was an organic musical instrument - he had his instruments built into his body! Also, there is evidence he led worship in heaven. It is no surprise that the world is presently bathed in his perverted "music."]

Seriously?

Eze 28:13 You were in Eden, the garden of God; every precious stone was your covering, sardius, topaz, and diamond, beryl, onyx, and jasper, sapphire, emerald, and carbuncle; and crafted in gold were your settings and your engravings. On the day that you were created they were prepared. (ESV)

Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

[Satan, not the king of Tyre, is an anointed cherub - one special class of angelic beings. And "stones of fire" is a reference to heavenly objects.]

Thou [Satan, not the king of Tyre] wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

Metaphor.

[Lucifer - as per Isaiah 14:12] - How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

Free posted:

You're probably using a copyrighted version of the Holy Bible, which has removed "Lucifer" (among many other things). New Bible versions have removed the identification of Lucifer as the one who fell and substituted a name for Jesus Christ.

The error is on the part of the KJV for leaving "Lucifer," a Latin word, arbitrarily untranslated. There is no being in the Bible with the name Lucifer. Isaiah 14:12 is written to the king of Babylon and the word translated as "Lucifer" (in very few versions, perhaps only in the KJV), is haylel or heilel, and means "shining one" or "morning star." It is a reference to Jupiter or Venus--bright morning stars.

The verse has nothing to do with Satan. One can only get Satan from the above passages by first reading Satan into them, which is not how we come to an understanding of what the Bible says.

 

[hawkman]

[Lucifer - as per Isaiah 14:12] - How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

Got a very long read for you about the lucifer name , it is just like Free pointed out to you , there should not be a proper name Lucifer in the bible .
There is no Lucifer . There is a Satan . "Lucifer" in the KJV is a transliteration of the Latin .
The Later Human tradition is what caused "Lucifer" to become a proper noun referring to the Devil before his fall, which the Hebrew does not do.

THE NAME LUCIFER HAS NEVER BELONGED TO SATAN!

 

[RedPill]

The verse has nothing to do with Satan. One can only get Satan from the above passages by first reading Satan into them, which is not how we come to an understanding of what the Bible says.

You would need to read and discern the remainder of the Holy Bible to understand who Satan is, and why he is the entity that God has chosen as a typology here.

Got a very long read for you about the lucifer name , it is just like @Free pointed out to you , there should not be a proper name Lucifer in the bible .
There is no Lucifer . There is a Satan . "Lucifer" in the KJV is a transliteration of the Latin .
The Later Human tradition is what caused "Lucifer" to become a proper noun referring to the Devil before his fall, which the Hebrew does not do.

You've jumped the gun in trying to slam the "Satan is not Lucifer" misdirection onto my plate. I'm not buying into it.

The error is on your part for not discerning why "Lucifer," a Latin word, remains in God's word.

And it's a shame that we now have wannabee Bible correctors arriving like vultures to a prey. I'm happy to disappoint in His name.

 

[hawkman]

You've jumped the gun in trying to slam the "Satan is not Lucifer" misdirection onto my plate. I'm not buying into it.

The error is on your part for not discerning why "Lucifer," a Latin word, remains in God's word.

And it's a shame that we now have wannabee Bible correctors arriving like vultures to a prey. I'm happy to disappoint in His name.

Did you read the article at the link ?
Are you a KJV Only ?

 

[RedPill]

Did you read the article at the link ?

Yeah, written by a fella named Frank Nelte, a follower of Herbert W. Armstong. A partial listing of Armstrong's heresies can be found here.

Nelte: "I attended the Bricket Wood campus of Ambassador College in the 1960's and was hired by the Worldwide Church of God upon graduation in 1971...I have written numerous articles in response to both, doctrinal changes that continued to be introduced, and also to specific questions that were put to me. My articles are not addressed to the general public. All of my articles are written from the perspective of people who have some background in the Worldwide Church of God during Mr. Herbert W. Armstrong's time, or the organizations that have sprung from that church. If you don't have any past association with either WCG or its offshoots, then some things in some of my articles may be more difficult to understand....Many of my articles uphold and defend the things Mr. Armstrong taught, because I am still convinced that Mr. Armstrong was correct in those areas."

You can read the rest of Nelte's "worshipping at the monuments of men" conflicted diatribe here.

Are you a KJV Only ?

ROFL! So much for the welfare of the OP! Truly, there is no new thing under the sun.

For men shall be lovers of their own selves...boasters, proud...unholy, Without natural affection...false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good...Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. For of this sort are they which [are]..Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. (2 Tim. 3:2-7).

God tells us man's inability to understand the bible has a number of causes, none of which is a limitation in his vocabulary. The bible is not difficult to understand - it is impossible - unless God's criteria are met. For the Lord hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes: the prophets and your rulers, the seers hath he covered. And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed: (Isa. 29:10-11).

The Bible is a sealed book. God hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. (Mat. 11:25). This is why most wannabee "scholars" are spiritually ignorant and thus powerless.

What man of God would identify himself as or with a bible "critic" i.e. one whose aspiration is to criticize the Bible? They spend their time in nothing else, but either to tell, or to hear some new thing.

This is not the way we ought to approach the word of God. And "KJV Only" is a pejorative label employed to preemptively discredit the opposition; this is abominable unto the Lord. These critics are afraid. Jesus Christ is the target of hatred by this world. His living Spirit-inspired words, which give his express will on this earth, are the bullseye. Christians who stand with Christ's word at the very bullseye will not only suffer persecution but also be subject to a constant barrage of attack. The word of God brings the same reproach he bore. His word is the only vestige on earth of Jesus Christ, other than the Holy Ghost and the testimony of born again Christians. "[W]hen tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word," some move slightly off center to avoid the unremitting assault of questioning scribes and mocking bystanders (Matthew 13:21). Those edging away from the bullseye are still 'for Jesus,' but the desire not to appear "foolish" finds puffed egos seeking ways and means to avoid the "shame" that comes from saying that you have a book in which God actually talks to man (Acts 5:41, Hebrews 12:2). The living "powerful" quality of the Holy Bible incites sinful men to "mock" and "question" it, just as they did Jesus Christ, the living Word, when he was on earth (Mark 10:34, Matthew 22:15, Mark 8:11, et al.).

The apostles scurried away when Jesus was tried and crucified. When the Holy Bible is likewise tried with accusing questions, even some of the best men scurry under the cover of a Greek text, some lexicon or the elusive 'originals.' Calvinists such as Carl Earth (1886-1968) and B.B. Warfield (1851-1921), although defending a semblance of traditional Christianity against German rationalism, were among the first to erect imaginary castles to house the word of God, outside of the tangible 'Holy Bible.' Those, who are under their influence, say that the 'Bible is inspired,' but actually mean that only the originals or some Greek or Hebrew text is inspired. They are unknowingly practicing Semler's deceptive theory of accommodation. They are trying to give the impression of orthodoxy to their listeners or readers.

The actual title of God's word is the Holy Bible - not the King James Bible. Jealous new version 'editors' sought to "rename" it centuries ago, a marketing ploy which has worked in their favor ever since. When I use the term 'Holy Bible' or 'Bible,' I mean what every church-going person means and exactly what the dictionary calls the "Bible," the sacred book of Christianity including the Old and the New Testament." A 'book' is defined by Webster as "a set of written or printed pages fastened on an end and enclosed between protective covers." This describes precisely the Holy Bible Christians read and have in their homes. A 'book' is no where identified as 'dissolved animal skins or parchments which have been written on'; neither is a 'Bible' thought of by anyone as a rare and unreadable Greek text. No living person identifies a 'Bible' as any of these things, except perhaps those 'clergy' who, like Humpty Dumpty say, "When I use a word it means just what I choose it to mean." When children and politicians, like Clinton, do this, it is called lying.

So the KJVO strawman ploy is hard for the naysayers to resist, and most believers who trust today’s Holy Bible as the pure, inspired, preserved word of God are not informed enough to show these bullies the door. These believers have been fed feel-goods by their clergy, and thus they are unprepared to defend their faith in the word of God, the Holy Bible. Of course, the ‘textual critics’ love the steady flow of soon-to-be victims -- witness the circuitous arguments they forever foist in threads such as this.

These wanna-be scholars and their yes-men, whose highest opinion is of themselves, and whose wiggle room exists solely in the secular world of textual criticism, are not difficult to expose with the voluminous documentation that is available to the diligent. Man’s field of textual criticism is a cesspool of self-absorbed wanna-be's swirling around strategically placed dogpiles dogma.

These posts will provoke grave silence, as none can answer them, except with trite and tiny vagaries and fierce invectives. They provoke the backbiting bark of watchdogs who cared not to read them thoroughly and be unsettled in their baseless opinions. The devil does not want those in a position of authority or influence (pastor, professor, amateur writer) to read these posts.

While Jesus witnessed to powerless people, he didn't hang out with them, and neither do I. So I'll leave you boys to your dissimulations and pettifogging - no offence intended. I'm out.

 

[Free]

For men shall be lovers of their own selves...boasters, proud...unholy, Without natural affection...false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good...Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. For of this sort are they which [are]..Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. (2 Tim. 3:2-7).

God tells us man's inability to understand the bible has a number of causes, none of which is a limitation in his vocabulary. The bible is not difficult to understand - it is impossible - unless God's criteria are met. For the Lord hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes: the prophets and your rulers, the seers hath he covered. And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed: (Isa. 29:10-11).

Pride is a big one, wouldn't you agree?

The Bible is a sealed book. God hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. (Mat. 11:25). This is why most wannabee "scholars" are spiritually ignorant and thus powerless.

And you're able to judge this, how? This is exactly the kind of judging the Bible says is sinful.

What man of God would identify himself as or with a bible "critic" i.e. one whose aspiration is to criticize the Bible?

It seems you do not even understand the technical use of "critic" when it comes to the Bible.

This is not the way we ought to approach the word of God. And "KJV Only" is a pejorative label employed to preemptively discredit the opposition; this is abominable unto the Lord.

It is an accepted label used for the most irrational position in all of Christianity. It relies heavily on fallacies such as begging the question, non-sequitur, poisoning the well, ad hominem, etc. Much like what you have posted throughout this post.

These critics are afraid. Jesus Christ is the target of hatred by this world. His living Spirit-inspired words, which give his express will on this earth, are the bullseye. Christians who stand with Christ's word at the very bullseye will not only suffer persecution but also be subject to a constant barrage of attack. The word of God brings the same reproach he bore. His word is the only vestige on earth of Jesus Christ, other than the Holy Ghost and the testimony of born again Christians. "[W]hen tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word," some move slightly off center to avoid the unremitting assault of questioning scribes and mocking bystanders (Matthew 13:21). Those edging away from the bullseye are still 'for Jesus,' but the desire not to appear "foolish" finds puffed egos seeking ways and means to avoid the "shame" that comes from saying that you have a book in which God actually talks to man (Acts 5:41, Hebrews 12:2). The living "powerful" quality of the Holy Bible incites sinful men to "mock" and "question" it, just as they did Jesus Christ, the living Word, when he was on earth (Mark 10:34, Matthew 22:15, Mark 8:11, et al.).


The actual title of God's word is the Holy Bible - not the King James Bible.

Agreed. It comes in a variety of versions--ESV, LEB, GNB, NIV, NASB, etc.

Jealous new version 'editors' sought to "rename" it centuries ago, a marketing ploy which has worked in their favor ever since. When I use the term 'Holy Bible' or 'Bible,' I mean what every church-going person means and exactly what the dictionary calls the "Bible," the sacred book of Christianity including the Old and the New Testament." A 'book' is defined by Webster as "a set of written or printed pages fastened on an end and enclosed between protective covers." This describes precisely the Holy Bible Christians read and have in their homes. A 'book' is no where identified as 'dissolved animal skins or parchments which have been written on'; neither is a 'Bible' thought of by anyone as a rare and unreadable Greek text. No living person identifies a 'Bible' as any of these things, except perhaps those 'clergy' who, like Humpty Dumpty say, "When I use a word it means just what I choose it to mean." When children and politicians, like Clinton, do this, it is called lying.

What is your point here?

So the KJVO strawman

It is absolutely not a straw man:

https://www.str.org/w/do-not-denigr...utm_medium=social-media&utm_campaign=STRvideo

While Jesus witnessed to powerless people, he didn't hang out with them, and neither do I. So I'll leave you boys to your dissimulations and pettifogging - no offence intended. I'm out.

Offense was intended on your part though, so it's probably good that you're out.

 

[hawkman]

Yeah, written by a fella named Frank Nelte

Thanks for the link .

Are you a KJV Only ?

My question seemed to inspire a supernova .

ROFL!

Laughter is good for the soul .

For men shall be lovers of their own selves...boasters, proud...unholy, Without natural affection...false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good...Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. For of this sort are they which [are]..Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. (2 Tim. 3:2-7).

Fierce , I see that .

While Jesus witnessed to powerless people, he didn't hang out with them, and neither do I. So I'll leave you boys to your dissimulations and pettifogging - no offence intended. I'm out.

Sir ! You have cast the gauntlet and I shall not be besmirched with accusations .
I challenge you to a duel at dawn ! You should put on your bible belt and holster your trusty Bible and we shall take turns shouting God's word at each other till the loser passes out !

Just kidding of course but in all seriousness RedPill you should keep an eye on your blood pressure .
You might need a pill or two .

 

[Bruce.Leiter]

Point is well taken. However, I think there can be a healthy fear whenever we are confronted with something larger than us. It's easy to say, "Well, God is stronger than them, and He is with me!" That doesn't really "cut the cake."

My brother, who used to pastor a church, told me he once saw an enormous angel standing in front of the church room--perhaps the area of the altar. He didn't say he was afraid, but if I saw a being that large, I think I might indulge in a little respect and fear of that kind? ;)

Well, God is always larger than we are, Randy. He's large and in charge. That experience, though, would have put the fear of God into me if it wasn't there already!

 

[Bruce.Leiter]

Clearly, Bruce is wrong in saying, "God called the Earth Heaven." That would be a complete contradiction.

While it is true that Moses, in Genesis, referred to the Heaven as a "Firmament," meaning something structurally supportive, it does not have represent material sturdiness. We do know, in modern science, that space around the earth is fixed and supportive of life on earth and in the seas. Water safely falls from the skies above to provide fresh water for plants and animals. The heavens are as stable as the earth, and they work securely together until God wishes to disrupt their harmony.

Where did I say, "God called the Earth Heaven," Randy? However, God is going to create a new earth out of this old, fallen one:
Isa_65:17 “For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth, and the former things shall not be remembered or come into mind.
Isa_66:22 “For as the new heavens and the new earth that I make shall remain before me, says the LORD, so shall your offspring and your name remain.
2Pe_3:13 But according to his promise we are waiting for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.
Rev_21:1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more.

And in Revelation 21, John saw the new Jerusalem (Old and New Testament church) coming down out of heaven toward the new earth. Is that what you meant by your quote? If so, I plead guilty.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

What do angels really look like?

And what do they do?

The word "angel" means "message". They look like ordinary, average men and women, what sets them apart is the message they convey - a heavenly message from God.

 

[RandyK]

Where did I say, "God called the Earth Heaven," Randy?

I was actually referring to Cherubram--not you, Bruce! I meant to refer to your discussion with him, and should not have referred to you as the author of this statement.

My apologies. Unfortunately, some forums only allow a limited time to correct errors. You are not the author of that contradictory statement--Cherubram was.

 

[Bruce.Leiter]

The word "angel" means "message". They look like ordinary, average men and women, what sets them apart is the message they convey - a heavenly message from God.

You're forgiven, Randy.

 

[RandyK]

You're forgiven, Randy.

Much thanks!