[_ Old Earth _] Applications of Creationism

[Barbarian]

and as for the crime rate in schools... just open your eyes, you know read.

Let's look at some data, then...

"Students ages 12–18 were victims of about 2 million nonfatal crimes of violence or
theft at school in 2001, with the majority (62 percent) of all victimizations at school
being thefts. However, this report is not only concerned with the safety of students in
schools. Where comparable data are available for crimes that occur outside of school
grounds, these data are offered as a point of comparison. In fact, as the data in this
report show, a larger number of serious violent victimizations (that is, rape, sexual
assault, robbery, and aggravated assault) take place away from school than at school.1
Data on homicides and suicides at school show there were 32 school-associated
violent deaths in the United States between July 1, 1999 and June 30, 2000, including
24 homicides, 16 of which involved school-aged children. In each school year from
1992 to 2000, youth ages 5–19 were at least 70 times more likely to be murdered
away from school than at school.
Trends in school crime over time are also of interest to researchers, educators, and
families. Data show that the percentage of students being victimized at school has
declined over recent years. Between 1995 and 2001, the percentage of students who
reported being victims of crime at school decreased from 10 percent to 6 percent. This
included a decrease in theft (from 7 percent to 4 percent) and a decrease in violent
victimization (from 3 percent to 2 percent) over the same time period."
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/iscs03.pdf

Let's see if someone's done a more recent study...

Between 2003 and 2005, the percentage of students ages 12–18 reporting victimization declined (from 5 to 4 percent), as did the percentage reporting theft4 (from 4 to 3 percent)
http://nces.ed.gov/programs/crimeindica ... ators2007/

"It ain't what people don't know; it's what they know that ain't so." - anon.

 

[Jayls5]

Oh you mean just like all the evidence you and your group would love for us Christians to swallow, I better go back and re read the hard evidence on the Nebraska man.. just as a starting point.

and as for the crime rate in schools... just open your eyes, you know read.

Yes. I do read, and I haven't found that. I suggested that you show me, since you apparently found it.

yes America did drop Atomic Bombs on Japan, how many American lives did that save. yes sad but it was war, they attack us, remember. Now I suppose you want to go back and talk about the crusades and how those evil "Christians" killed all those poor people. The Arabs who just happened to invade Jerusalem and kill the people living there first, yes war is hell.. Oh prohibition, ok blame that on the Christians too... let not talk about the hospitals, mission that fed the hungry, aid to help fight diseases.. yea those Christians are an evil bunch... :smt067

We can take all of war out of the equation, just for the sake of argument. It still stands that the Christian temperance movement caused prohibition, which inevitably led to the cartels and rampant crime associated with it. The road to hell is paved with good intentions I suppose. Sometimes in an effort to do good, you inadvertently cause more harm.

Perhaps you can produce some hard data that supports your case. It seems Barbarian is already producing some information that directly contradicts your claim.

 

[freeway]

crime rate growth in the US, what are we teaching our kids....

http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm

this is just one of many sites showing the rate of crime increase, and all this stems from what we teach our children,, teach them there is no God, and they will act like it.. Don't get me wrong there are lots of children, young adult and adults alike that are not Christians and they are very loving and kind people. but don't try to tell me a world without God is a better world...The world I see on the news every day needs a savior................Jesus...

 

[freeway]

We can take all of war out of the equation, just for the sake of argument. It still stands that the Christian temperance movement caused prohibition, which inevitably led to the cartels and rampant crime associated with it. The road to hell is paved with good intentions I suppose. Sometimes in an effort to do good, you inadvertently cause more harm.

I never said that Christians are perfect, far from it and thats why we need a savior, but lets not confuse men who claim to be of God, form true Jesus loving Christians,,,, huge difference. Jesus said you will know my sheep.

 

[Patashu]

crime rate growth in the US, what are we teaching our kids....

http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm

this is just one of many sites showing the rate of crime increase, and all this stems from what we teach our children,, teach them there is no God, and they will act like it.. Don't get me wrong there are lots of children, young adult and adults alike that are not Christians and they are very loving and kind people. but don't try to tell me a world without God is a better world...The world I see on the news every day needs a savior................Jesus...

Eh? If you look at crimes commited per 100,000 inhabitants, all the numbers are decreasing. This implies you are less likely to be the victim of a crime now than in the past, does it not? Are we on the same page?

We can take all of war out of the equation, just for the sake of argument. It still stands that the Christian temperance movement caused prohibition, which inevitably led to the cartels and rampant crime associated with it. The road to hell is paved with good intentions I suppose. Sometimes in an effort to do good, you inadvertently cause more harm.

I never said that Christians are perfect, far from it and thats why we need a savior, but lets not confuse men who claim to be of God, form true Jesus loving Christians,,,, huge difference. Jesus said you will know my sheep.

So, Christians are not perfect but it's all the atheists' fault for crime and corruption? Would you be willing to share the blame, since anyone is capable of commiting a crime and crimes come from all religious (or areligious) backgrounds?

 

[Jayls5]

Eh? If you look at crimes commited per 100,000 inhabitants, all the numbers are decreasing. This implies you are less likely to be the victim of a crime now than in the past, does it not? Are we on the same page?

That's what I was reading. Maybe he was so certain of these Pat Robertson style talking points that he didn't bother to read the statistics.

There is pretty much zero correlation between prayer in the classroom and crime.

 

[jmm9683]

crime rate growth in the US, what are we teaching our kids....

http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm

Fail.

 

[freeway]

So, Christians are not perfect but it's all the atheists' fault for crime and corruption? Would you be willing to share the blame, since anyone is capable of commiting a crime and crimes come from all religious (or areligious) backgrounds?

come on you know just as well as I, Christians never do anything wrong, after all Christians are all Christ like. It's you atheist pushing your Satan worshiping ideas that will send the whole world into a lake of fire burning with brimstone, and another thing all you atheist are the only baby killers on earth. You beat you children senseless, then want us Christians to pay the bill at the hospital that was paid for, with our hard tax paying jobs.. and the soup lines you will never find a Christian there because God will never let anything bad befall his children, and you know all of us Christians will live to a ripe old age before falling asleep one night and wake up in the arm of Jesus...





there is that what you guys want to hear......................come on I said Christians do horrible thing too....but a true Christian is forgiven.. does that mean its ok to do these things, NO, we will suffer lost, but one thing and if you only get one thing out of this and every other post on this site is...................Jesus will always love YOU, its up to you to ask him for forgiveness...

 

[freeway]

crime rate growth in the US, what are we teaching our kids....

http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm

Fail.

Yea well Ive seen a few of your post here lately "deep well thought out" does mommy let you stay up late and play grown up...

 

[John]

there is that what you guys want to hear......................come on I said Christians do horrible thing too....but a true Christian is forgiven.. does that mean its ok to do these things, NO, we will suffer lost, but one thing and if you only get one thing out of this and every other post on this site is...................Jesus will always love YOU, its up to you to ask him for forgiveness...

Good post.

But here in more detail.

http://johnmuise.deviantart.com/art/Eve ... w-86938736

 

[freeway]

http://johnmuise.deviantart.com/art/Eve ... w-86938736

very good, and very true.....everyone should read this... :smt023

 

[jmm9683]

crime rate growth in the US, what are we teaching our kids....

http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm

Fail.

Yea well Ive seen a few of your post here lately "deep well thought out" does mommy let you stay up late and play grown up...

Haha, yes she does, and she even pointed out how your statistics were wrong.

 

[Barbarian]

It's hard to believe that people actually think that crime went up after we stopped making kids pray in public schools.

How does one stay that ignorant in a modern society?

 

[Patashu]

there is that what you guys want to hear......................come on I said Christians do horrible thing too....but a true Christian is forgiven.. does that mean its ok to do these things, NO, we will suffer lost, but one thing and if you only get one thing out of this and every other post on this site is...................Jesus will always love YOU, its up to you to ask him for forgiveness...

If christians do horrible things and atheists do horrible things, just that christians get a get-out-of-jail-free card for theirs, what does atheism have to do with rise in crime rates?

 

[Jayls5]

It's hard to believe that people actually think that crime went up after we stopped making kids pray in public schools.

How does one stay that ignorant in a modern society?

Early age indoctrination and baseless assertions regurgitated ad nauseum by religious authority and/or parents. In a nutshell.

 

[freeway]

It's hard to believe that people actually think that crime went up after we stopped making kids pray in public schools.

How does one stay that ignorant in a modern society?

1: murder arrest among 13 - 18 yr olds up nearly 5X since 1962-3
2: murder by girl also up nearly 5X since 1962-3
3: aggravated assault by girls 13 - 15 also up 5X since 1962-3
4: rape arrest against boys 13 - 15 up 3X since 1962-3
5: teenage girl pregnancies up 7X 550% since there 1962-3 level
6: half of sexual active adolescent males has had their first sexual experience by the age of 11 -13
7: teenage pregnancies- about 80% of the girls end up on welfare...
8: since 1962-3 teenage transmitted diseases up 400%
9: unmarried couples living together up 725%
10: divorce rate up 111%
11: alcohol and drug use among school kids have skyrocketed
12 violent crime has skyrocketed also up 995%
13: SAT scores has plummeted since 1962-3. the US was once one of highest for its sat scores but now the US is ranked near the bottom of the world average...
source.... US department of Health and Human Services... US department of Justice.. US Census Bureau... just google it and try just once to stay away form the Christian hating atheistic websites... if you can handle the truth... but from your post .... no you can't..

Why, the answer is easy If you teach kids, that eventually grow into adults that they come from monkey.. well they will act that way... teach them there is no God and there is no one to answer to but themselves and you will have a generation that will follow anything that tickles their ears.. and the results will be as proved... like it or not...

and as far as ignorant....gee go down to your New York or LA school and many all across the US and visit ... of course after you pass through the metal detector... or are those imaginary also... :crazyeyes:

get a clue....

 

[Jayls5]

It's hard to believe that people actually think that crime went up after we stopped making kids pray in public schools.

How does one stay that ignorant in a modern society?

1: murder arrest among 13 - 18 yr olds up nearly 5X since 1962-3
2: murder by girl also up nearly 5X since 1962-3
3: aggravated assault by girls 13 - 15 also up 5X since 1962-3
4: rape arrest against boys 13 - 15 up 3X since 1962-3
5: teenage girl pregnancies up 7X 550% since there 1962-3 level
6: half of sexual active adolescent males has had their first sexual experience by the age of 11 -13
7: teenage pregnancies- about 80% of the girls end up on welfare...
8: since 1962-3 teenage transmitted diseases up 400%
9: unmarried couples living together up 725%
10: divorce rate up 111%
11: alcohol and drug use among school kids have skyrocketed
12 violent crime has skyrocketed also up 995%
13: SAT scores has plummeted since 1962-3. the US was once one of highest for its sat scores but now the US is ranked near the bottom of the world average...
source.... US department of Health and Human Services... US department of Justice.. US Census Bureau... just google it and try just once to stay away form the Christian hating atheistic websites... if you can handle the truth... but from your post .... no you can't..

Why, the answer is easy If you teach kids, that eventually grow into adults that they come from monkey.. well they will act that way... teach them there is no God and there is no one to answer to but themselves and you will have a generation that will follow anything that tickles their ears.. and the results will be as proved... like it or not...

and as far as ignorant....gee go down to your New York or LA school and many all across the US and visit ... of course after you pass through the metal detector... or are those imaginary also... :crazyeyes:

get a clue....

Sweet, so you found the source. Link it since you have it.

 

[Barbarian]

It's hard to believe that people actually think that crime went up after we stopped making kids pray in public schools.

How does one stay that ignorant in a modern society?

1: murder arrest among 13 - 18 yr olds up nearly 5X since 1962-3

Let's take a look...

Why did violent juvenile crime decline?
Violent juvenile crime declined for a number of reasons. The nation's economic improvement meant more jobs for young adults and single parents. Several improvements in law enforcement, such as community policing, a reduction in the crack cocaine market, and restrictions on youth gun access, helped reduce the amount of violent juvenile crime. Also, the massive increase in school and after-school programs allowed youth to participate in more constructive activities and stay off the streets.
http://youthviolence.edschool.virginia. ... micide.htm

OK...what's going on here? Well, the absolute number actually rose for a while, due to increasing population. But the rate dropped rather rapidly, especially after economic problems of the 70s and 80s were addressed.

Until very recently, teen pregnancies have been declining. The issue seems to be the "abstinence only" programs, many of which give false information.

Each year, almost 750,000 teenage women aged 15–19 become pregnant. The teenage pregnancy rate in this country is at its lowest level in 30 years
http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/2006/09/12/USTPstats.pdf

10: divorce rate up 111%

A study saying that born-again Christians divorce more often than non-Christians has raised eyebrows, sowed confusion, even brought on a little holy anger. So much, in fact, that the study's author, evangelical George Barna, put out a special letter to "our partners in ministry" trying to calm their fury and let his fellow believers know that he was standing by his stats no matter how distasteful they might be.
WHO'S GETTING DIVORCEDA Barna Research Group survey of 3,854 people found that 25 percent of Americans are, or have been, divorced. Here are the percentages of people in various subgroups who have been divorced:

Definitions: People were classified as "born again" if they said they have made a personal commitment to Jesus Christ that is important in their life today and if they answered a multiple-choice question about life after death with "after I die I know I will go to heaven because I have confessed my sins and accepted Jesus Christ as my savior." People were classified as evangelical if they met nine theological criteria.

SOURCE: Barna Research Group

The Barna Research Group's national study showed that members of nondenominational churches divorce 34 percent of the time in contrast to 25 percent for the general population. Nondenominational churches would include large numbers of Bible churches and other conservative evangelicals. Baptists had the highest rate of the major denominations: 29 percent. Born-again Christians' rate was 27 percent. To make matters even more distressing for believers, atheists/agnostics had the lowest rate of divorce 21 percent.
http://www.adherents.com/largecom/baptist_divorce.html

And this study is by an evangelical Christian group. If your argument is right, this means that praying is bad for society. I don't think so. More likely, you're just stuffed with prunes.

violent crime has skyrocketed also up 995%

Doesn't look like it.

13: SAT scores has plummeted since 1962-3. the US was once one of highest for its sat scores but now the US is ranked near the bottom of the world average...

The reason is simple:
As the test grew more popular and more students from less rigorous schools began taking the test, the average dropped to about 428 Verbal and 478 Math.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAT#1980_t ... ed_changes

You can check this by comparing SAT scores by state, and comparing them to the percentage of seniors taking them. There's a nice relationship, showing the higher the percentage, the lower the average score. Didn't the guys who fed you that tripe know it? Of course they did. But they were betting that you didn't know it. They won.

However, there is a way to compare our students with those of other nations. The TIMSS studies give identical science and math tests to 8th graders of about 40 nations. We have been moving up in the standings:

In 1999, we were 18th in math and 17th in science. By 2003, we moved up to 14th in math and 8th in science. Not where we want to be, of course; we should be on top. But exactly the opposite of what you're telling us.
http://nces.ed.gov/timss/results03.asp

just google it and try just once to stay away form the Christian hating atheistic websites... if you can handle the truth... but from your post .... no you can't..

Looks like you trusted the wrong folks, um?

Why, the answer is easy If you teach kids, that eventually grow into adults that they come from monkey.. well they will act that way...

Who said they come from monkeys? You honestly believe that? No wonder you hate education.

teach them there is no God and there is no one to answer to but themselves

You think schools teach that? Honest to God? You've been out of the loop for a long time, fella.

and as far as ignorant....gee go down to your New York or LA school and many all across the US and visit ... of course after you pass through the metal detector... or are those imaginary also... :crazyeyes:

Most places, yep. I've never been in a school with a metal detector. And I used to consult with a lot of them.

get a clue....

I've got a load of them for you. You've got a lot of stuff you're going to be seeing for the first time.

 

[freeway]

"The Barbarian"]It's hard to believe that people actually think that crime went up after we stopped making kids pray in public schools.
How does one stay that ignorant in a modern society?

freeway 1: murder arrest among 13 - 18 yr olds up nearly 5X since 1962-3

Let's take a look...

Yes! let's take a look... I said form 1960's on... you only shown 93 to 2003 and I do agree that the crime has dropped some in those years but you show nothing of the 70's and 80's... but again.. lets look form the early 60's to 2006...the population has not quite doubled but the murder rate has gone up over 300%...not to mention the others, rape, theft
http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_shooting
this one show how many school shooting that have occurred since 1960...sad...

Until very recently, teen pregnancies have been declining. The issue seems to be the "abstinence only" programs, many of which give false information

.

yes teenage pregnancies have declined, do to programs like "abstinence only"... and I thank God for women like "Leslee Unruh" here is a link from plan parenthood.. "which PPH is the #1 abortion center world wide.. so you know they don't like her or her "abstinence only program.. after all their plan PPH has almost the mentality of let them get pregnant and we will just abort them....A sure form of birth control..
http://www.plannedparenthood.org/issues ... h-6248.htm

10: divorce rate up 111%

And this study is by an evangelical Christian group. If your argument is right, this means that praying is bad for society. I don't think so. More likely, you're just stuffed with prunes.

So let me get this straight whenever someone does not agree or have a different opinion than yours you resort to name calling and rude jokes... that's deep... you worried you might and have been proven wrong...
Christian along with non christians do get divorce's sadly but true, I and I repeat I never have said Christian are any better than non christians, we all sin and fall short of the Glory of God.. but as a Christian yes we are and will be forgiven, because we are covered by the blood of Christ.

violent crime has skyrocketed also up 995%

again see link above... all across the board up up and up....since the 1960's gee what happened back then to make such a difference..... wait I know! they started teaching evilolution only....and again your chart... just a few years is all it shows... hell I can do that .....

[quote:9d390]13: SAT scores has plummeted since 1962-3. the US was once one of highest for its sat scores but now the US is ranked near the bottom of the world average...

just google it and try just once to stay away form the Christian hating atheistic websites... if you can handle the truth... but from your post .... no you can't..

Looks like you trusted the wrong folks, um?

[/quote:9d390]

wrong folk uh?... well by the way I see it and all you have to do is check it out and stop looking at those site that hate christians, or get all the info ... yes its out there.. or here's an idea! open your eyes....
Oh the SAT's I looked at your site, "I'm not afraid to check what the other side has to say, even if it so full of holes that it will never hold water.... the SAT looks to me as if they dumbed them down to get a better over all grade... I know you won't agree but oh well again!!

[quote:9d390]Why, the answer is easy If you teach kids, that eventually grow into adults that they come from monkey.. well they will act that way...

Who said they come from monkeys? You honestly believe that? No wonder you hate education[/quote:9d390].
Let's see, says the teacher: little johnny you see the single cell that I drew on the caulk board! millions and millions years ago that is where all life as we know it came from... yes little johnny life came from non life,,,, and that is where we get the evilvolution tree of life from..Oh but please but ask me to prove it "thinking to herself"

[quote:9d390]teach them there is no God and there is no one to answer to but themselves

You think schools teach that? Honest to God? You've been out of the loop for a long time, fella.[/quote:9d390]
Are you that blind.... come on, teach them evolution, but don't give ID or creation a fair shake..umh...what could they be scared of.... again I know!!! God, more precise Jesus!

[quote:9d390]and as far as ignorant....gee go down to your New York or LA school and many all across the US and visit ... of course after you pass through the metal detector... or are those imaginary also... :crazyeyes:

Most places, yep. I've never been in a school with a metal detector. And I used to consult with a lot of them.[/quote:9d390]
they say a picture is worth a thousand words.... so take a look again are those imaginary..
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15111439/
http://www.schoolsecurity.org/resources ... pment.html
http://www.coveringeducation.org/school ... ctors.html

I've got a load of them for you. You've got a lot of stuff you're going to be seeing for the first time.

I agree you have a load,,but that load need to be flushed.... You sir fall way short on this one... you usually make a good argument, but this time you lose big time... I to have a lot of stuff you need to see... but I know you won't

and as far as this debate on crime, school and things since God has been removed from school, again all I say to you or anyone reading... take a look.. don't take someone word for it or you will be blinded too.. I will not answer any more in this thread.... goodnight.... freeway..

One last thing...... Jesus is the answer to all the problems, no matter how small or great... Give Him a chance..... and lets get rid of the darwin garbage....

 

[freeway]

One very last thing....I hate long post... :-D :-D