Are denominations hinted at in the scripture?

[tessiewebb]

I didn't use the word 'gospel', because "doctrine" and (gospel) do not mean the same thing. If they did, then you would have to condemn the women who wear dresses to church as heretics. Who taught you to wear pants to church? It sure wasn't Jesus, because I doubt He wore pants.

doctrine - in religious assemblies of the Christians, to speak in the way of teaching, in distinction from other modes of speaking in public
gospel - the glad tidings of the kingdom of God soon to be set up, and subsequently also of Jesus the Messiah, the founder of this kingdom. After the death of Christ, the term comprises also the preaching of (concerning) Jesus Christ as having suffered death on the cross to procure eternal salvation for the men in the kingdom of God, but as restored to life and exalted to the right hand of God in heaven, thence to return in majesty to consummate the kingdom of God

So the gospel was taught-doctrine.

Won't get into how much more the Gospel entails than this brief definition above but I think you get the point.

Paul put a curse on anyone preaching/teaching any other Gospel.

And what does any of that have to do with a curse on women wearing dresses or where I "learned" to wear pants, pray tell?

Do you wear robes like Jesus is said to have done? Where did you learn to wear what you wear? Really, Sinthesis, really?

 

[Pard]

You do realize that Samaritans are Jewish right? They were one of the 12 tribes that split for Israel after Joshua conquered Canaan. Jews and Samaritans have a long standing feud since then over who had the true Jewish priesthood. This split has continued to this day. This is the reason why Jews and Saramitans didn't associate with each other.

Nope was not aware of that at all. I just figured they were all good ;)

So you're going to discount all of the people that followed Jesus in His earthly ministry as being Christians. That contradicts scripture in the Gospels you do realize that I hope.

Gonna have to explain that one. I'm not sure what you are saying or how I apparently said that one at all! This to me is like 1+2=23

 

[Elijah674]

Nobody became a Christian until after the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus. Yet Jesus was/is for anyone looking to Him.

Mat 15:21 ¶ Then Jesus went thence, and departed into the coasts of Tyre and Sidon.
Mat 15:22 - And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, [thou] Son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.
Mat 15:23 - But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.
Mat 15:24 - But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Mat 15:25 - Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.
Mat 15:26 - But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast [it] to dogs.
Mat 15:27 - And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table.
Mat 15:28 - Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great [is] thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.
​

And these in Gen. 12 were what??
Gen.12

[1] Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:
[2] And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:
[3] And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.
[4] So Abram departed, as the LORD had spoken unto him; and Lot went with him: and Abram was seventy and five years old when he departed out of Haran.
[5] And Abram took Sarai his wife, and Lot his brother's son, and all their substance that they had gathered, and the souls that they had gotten in Haran; and they went forth to go into the land of Canaan; and into the land of Canaan they came. (all Gentile at that!)

And Heb. 11??
[13] These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
[14] For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.

Surely a couple of these all Gentile ones of the OT seen here in Heb. 11, died IN THE Eph. 4:5's ONE FAITH.


--Elijah

 

[dadof10]

___________

--Elijah Here:

Your Acts 15 [posting] was only about Moses Law & Circumcism and the outcome.

The topic is really irrelevant, it's the SYSTEM they used to settle disputes that is of importance to the OP. Notice the controversy started in Antioch and Paul was there. Why didn't he just "search scripture" for relevant verses and settle the dispute there? Why did he take this dispute to Jerusalem?

In Matt. 18 we find how individual members are to be worked with. And it is not a group of men or even one person who can key in or out of the church membership, that heaven will ratify. But the whole of the church body itself.

Matt. 18
[13] And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray. (Being the True Church in total Obedience that Christ started up)
[14] Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.
[15] Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
[16] But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
[17] And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but [if he neglect to hear the church], let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.
[18] Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Please read this in context. V.15: "Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee..." This does NOT have anything to do with doctrinal disputes, but with personal conflicts between church members. Notice, though, there is a VISIBLE CHURCH that people were supposed to take disputes to.

And surely as from the Gen. start to Rev.'s finish the CANDELSTICK (Church) is also required to be Loving + OBEDIENT or it would be removed as seen in Rev. 2:5 + all of the ones seen in Rev. 17:1-5. These of the Great world/wide mother WHORE & her daughters!

And surely satan has his great worldwide whore & daughters in counterfeit.
Yet, in Matt. 7 we see ones Lord being just one of two Folds, all are of Christ or all of these others are of satan. That is why we see the Rev. 18:4's last warning, for Christ still has some few left in yoked membership of these Rev. 17:1-5 ones who must leave that are still deceived! (and world/wide they are leaving by the thousands)

Ignoring this anti-Catholic babble.

 

[westtexas]

You do realize that Samaritans are Jewish right? They were one of the 12 tribes that split for Israel after Joshua conquered Canaan.

The Samaritan people were not part of the 12 tribes. Granted, the 10 Northern Tribes had their capitol in Samaria, but were conquered and taken away in 721 B.C. by the Assyrians under Sargon. The Assyrians under Esarhaddon would be the people who would become known as Samaritans.

Off topic y'all-sorry-totopic
Westtexas

 

[Pard]

The Samaritan people were not part of the 12 tribes. Granted, the 10 Northern Tribes had their capitol in Samaria, but were conquered and taken away in 721 B.C. by the Assyrians under Sargon. The Assyrians under Esarhaddon would be the people who would become known as Samaritans.

Off topic y'all-sorry-totopic
Westtexas

That sounds right. I thought that there were only like one or two groups of Jews left by this point. The others done got themselves lost!

 

[reba]

How so, Reba?

Just think about not one fence in the back yards.


I dont like the denominational fights. There are a few basic point of Christianity that can not be compromised and still be labled Christian... Pretty much what is laid out in the Statement of Faith here.
Someone speaks in tongues some one doesn't that is not unto salvation.... some one believe in faith healing some one doesn't it is not unto salvation. We grow, hopefully stronger, our understandings can change we can let go of this and understand that. Some meet on Saturday, some on Sunday, and some any Day not unto salvation... For me denominations are like shoes we dont all wear the same style or size....

Look at His creation we are different cultures Yet we are one in Him not one in our church but one in Him... Are you, am i, the same Christian we were 20 ,30, 40 years ago...

 

[CalledToServe]

The Samaritan people were not part of the 12 tribes. Granted, the 10 Northern Tribes had their capitol in Samaria, but were conquered and taken away in 721 B.C. by the Assyrians under Sargon. The Assyrians under Esarhaddon would be the people who would become known as Samaritans.

Off topic y'all-sorry-totopic
Westtexas

That's what the Rabbinical Jewish say. The Samaritans say that they are descended from Ephraim and Manasseh. Modern genetics shows that the Samaritans are descended from the Tribes of Levi, Ephraim, and Manasseh.

 

[Sinthesis]

doctrine - in religious assemblies of the Christians, to speak in the way of teaching, in distinction from other modes of speaking in public
gospel - the glad tidings of the kingdom of God soon to be set up, and subsequently also of Jesus the Messiah, the founder of this kingdom. After the death of Christ, the term comprises also the preaching of (concerning) Jesus Christ as having suffered death on the cross to procure eternal salvation for the men in the kingdom of God, but as restored to life and exalted to the right hand of God in heaven, thence to return in majesty to consummate the kingdom of God

So the gospel was taught-doctrine.

Won't get into how much more the Gospel entails than this brief definition above but I think you get the point.

Paul put a curse on anyone preaching/teaching any other Gospel.

And what does any of that have to do with a curse on women wearing dresses or where I "learned" to wear pants, pray tell?

Do you wear robes like Jesus is said to have done? Where did you learn to wear what you wear? Really, Sinthesis, really?

Of course the Gospel is taught-doctrine, but not all taught-doctrine is the Gospel. It comes down to what, as Reba alluded to, is considered essential Christian doctrine. All the rest of the doctrinal differences which might seem important are actually over non-essentials, which allow for denominations within the body of Christ.

Of course you might find it Good News that you can wear pants without regard to Deuteronomy 22:5, but you probably wouldn't have to go too far out in the boonies to find groups of people who are probably good Christians, yet disagree with your 'pants doctrine'. Fortunately, our views on pants don't comprise essential Christian doctrine.

 

[Sinthesis]

If you want to split hairs okay. Those that followed Jesus in His ministry were called Nazirites since they followed Him. Christians as a term didn't come into use until after the Greeks transliterated Yeshua the Mashiach into Iesus Christos. During His earthly ministry those that followed Him were messianic Jews. So yes, there were Christians before His death, burial, and resurrection. His followers had to wait for the prophecies to be fulfilled until after His death, burial, and resurrection.

No, there were not Christians before the Resurrection. Every one of His followers set aside their faith that Jesus was the Messiah while He was in the tomb. Not one of His followers understood the prophecies in the way we do now. Yet our understanding comes only through the gift, which we too often take fore granted, of perfect hindsight from the New Testament.

 

[CalledToServe]

No, there were not Christians before the Resurrection. Every one of His followers set aside their faith that Jesus was the Messiah while He was in the tomb. Not one of His followers understood the prophecies in the way we do now. Yet our understanding comes only through the gift, which we too often take fore granted, of perfect hindsight from the New Testament.

Then you are in contradiction of the Gospels since they specifically state that Christ had followers and believed in Him.

 

[tessiewebb]

Then you are in contradiction of the Gospels since they specifically state that Christ had followers and believed in Him.

True. They weren't called Christians until Antioch, though. (Acts 11:26)

 

[dadof10]

Just think about not one fence in the back yards.


I dont like the denominational fights. There are a few basic point of Christianity that can not be compromised and still be labled Christian... Pretty much what is laid out in the Statement of Faith here.
Someone speaks in tongues some one doesn't that is not unto salvation.... some one believe in faith healing some one doesn't it is not unto salvation. We grow, hopefully stronger, our understandings can change we can let go of this and understand that. Some meet on Saturday, some on Sunday, and some any Day not unto salvation... For me denominations are like shoes we dont all wear the same style or size....

Look at His creation we are different cultures Yet we are one in Him not one in our church but one in Him... Are you, am i, the same Christian we were 20 ,30, 40 years ago...

Is this really the way Jesus designed His Church to be? Different groups of people believing different doctrines? This doesn't look like the Church I see in the Bible.

 

[Elijah674]

The topic is really irrelevant, it's the SYSTEM they used to settle disputes that is of importance to the OP. Notice the controversy started in Antioch and Paul was there. Why didn't he just "search scripture" for relevant verses and settle the dispute there? Why did he take this dispute to Jerusalem?



Please read this in context. V.15: "Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee..." This does NOT have anything to do with doctrinal disputes, but with personal conflicts between church members. Notice, though, there is a VISIBLE CHURCH that people were supposed to take disputes to.



Ignoring this anti-Catholic babble.

You must have a guilt complex? (it is a tough conviction huh! Acts 9:5!)

Rev. 2:
[5] Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else [I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick] out of his place, except thou repent.

And Josh. 7:12 last part of the verse..
[11] Israel hath sinned, and they have also transgressed my covenant which I commanded them: for they have even taken of the accursed thing, and have also stolen, and dissembled also, and they have put it even among their own stuff.
[12] Therefore the children of Israel could not stand before their enemies, but turned their backs before their enemies, because they were accursed: neither will I be with you any more, [except ye destroy the accursed from among you].

And you claim :seehearspeak???
Well you did not ask, but I see only one Virgin Denomination joining all of the rest.
And Eze. 9 finds the only ones saved, withh all the rest being slaghtered.

But this prophecy is just as you say to you... 'Ignoring this anti-Catholic babble'. Yet, we know that it is much more than that. For it include's your jesuite daughters now, as well.

--Elijah

 

[tessiewebb]

Of course the Gospel is taught-doctrine, but not all taught-doctrine is the Gospel. It comes down to what, as Reba alluded to, is considered essential Christian doctrine. All the rest of the doctrinal differences which might seem important are actually over non-essentials, which allow for denominations within the body of Christ.

All Gospel is essential doctrine but not all taught-"doctrine" is Gospel. All separating "doctrines" are manmade additions to the Gospel. Which makes them not only man-made but nonsensical. Like the 600+ "commandments" added to the 10 Commandments under the OT, they are imaginary "words from God". Set up by man, maybe originally for the purpose of clarifying and enabling the followers to "keep" the commandments, but ending up in ritualistic nonsense. Those "additions" keep the Body of Christ separated, "allowing" divisions, factions and in the end "spots and wrinkles" in the Body of Christ.

Cleverly, the enemies of Christ make good use of these opinions of man, puffing some up until they fall under the sheer weight of their "superior" doctrine. And keeping some smothered under the sheer weight of their blinded leaders determination that they "must" believe as they do, or "go straight to hell".

Of course you might find it Good News that you can wear pants without regard to Deuteronomy 22:5, but you probably wouldn't have to go too far out in the boonies to find groups of people who are probably good Christians, yet disagree with your 'pants doctrine'. Fortunately, our views on pants don't comprise essential Christian doctrine.

This is arrogant. First, a female wearing pants or wearing dresses is not good news or bad news. More importantly, "out in the boonies"? Where you obviously feel you don't live. My "pants doctrine"? "Our views"? Really, Sinthesis, you're showing your own divisiveness nakedly.

 

[tessiewebb]

Is this really the way Jesus designed His Church to be? Different groups of people believing different doctrines? This doesn't look like the Church I see in the Bible.

Correct. However, Reba is seeing certain things as non-essential as to whether we get to go to heaven. Perhaps they are. They are, however, sufficient to keep the Body of Christ separated so that what may or may not be essential to one is tightly held to by others. Which, if this doesn't create division among the Body, what else can it be called?

The truly non-essential things are the adherence to opinions of man. God says of Himself and others who believe He is right say it of Him, that He is Healer, not just One Who heals but healing in and of itself (Yahweh{Jehovah}Rapha-Ps 103:3). Since "He changeth not", what makes believing or not believing in healing for today "nonessential"?

Again, perhaps it is not essential to believe in healing or not, for instance, if the goal is to get to heaven only. Then again, maybe our goals are too singular in that respect. If we are to be of use to the King of the Kingdom into which we've been translated, might it not be more purposeful if we are healed than if we die of disease?

 

[tessiewebb]

Just think about not one fence in the back yards.


I dont like the denominational fights. There are a few basic point of Christianity that can not be compromised and still be labled Christian... Pretty much what is laid out in the Statement of Faith here.
Someone speaks in tongues some one doesn't that is not unto salvation.... some one believe in faith healing some one doesn't it is not unto salvation. We grow, hopefully stronger, our understandings can change we can let go of this and understand that. Some meet on Saturday, some on Sunday, and some any Day not unto salvation... For me denominations are like shoes we dont all wear the same style or size....

Look at His creation we are different cultures Yet we are one in Him not one in our church but one in Him... Are you, am i, the same Christian we were 20 ,30, 40 years ago...

Very true, we do change and let go of or better understand what is essential as we go along in life. Think with me, Reba, though. We were not different cultures at creation or following until the tower of Babel. It cannot be His original plan that we are separated into cultures. If by church you mean the denomination we adhere to then you are very correct, we are not one there. So how are we One in Him? His church is His Body.

I think you are a peacemaker, Ms. Reba, and so you are blessed, a child of God.

Peace to you, my sister.

 

[Sinthesis]

All Gospel is essential doctrine but not all taught-"doctrine" is Gospel. All separating "doctrines" are manmade additions to the Gospel. Which makes them not only man-made but nonsensical. Like the 600+ "commandments" added to the 10 Commandments under the OT, they are imaginary "words from God". Set up by man, maybe originally for the purpose of clarifying and enabling the followers to "keep" the commandments, but ending up in ritualistic nonsense. Those "additions" keep the Body of Christ separated, "allowing" divisions, factions and in the end "spots and wrinkles" in the Body of Christ.

Cleverly, the enemies of Christ make good use of these opinions of man, puffing some up until they fall under the sheer weight of their "superior" doctrine. And keeping some smothered under the sheer weight of their blinded leaders determination that they "must" believe as they do, or "go straight to hell".

See? We agree!

This is arrogant. First, a female wearing pants or wearing dresses is not good news or bad news. More importantly, "out in the boonies"? Where you obviously feel you don't live. My "pants doctrine"? "Our views"? Really, Sinthesis, you're showing your own divisiveness nakedly.

Again, we agree that leg wear doctrine is not gospel (good news). Yet I am not going to pass judgment on the Amish or any others inhabiting the 'boonies' who practice a more strict dress code, as being heretical. I would also hope they, as fellow Christians, return the favor.

 

[Sinthesis]

Then you are in contradiction of the Gospels since they specifically state that Christ had followers and believed in Him.

I don't deny that Jesus had followers who believed in Him. However, as Jesus' body lay in the tomb, all of His followers stumbled in their faith and forsook Him. Before the Resurrection, Jesus' followers were Jews who had found their Messiah yet didn't understand what that meant. It is the Resurrection that opened their eyes and allowed them to become something new; Christians.

 

[CalledToServe]

I don't deny that Jesus had followers who believed in Him. However, as Jesus' body lay in the tomb, all of His followers stumbled in their faith and forsook Him. Before the Resurrection, Jesus' followers were Jews who had found their Messiah yet didn't understand what that meant. It is the Resurrection that opened their eyes and allowed them to become something new; Christians.

You cannot say all because Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother, plus other women went to the tomb after Shabbat had concluded to find it empty.

Matthew 28:1 After the Sabbath, at dawn on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to look at the tomb.

Mark 16:1 When the Sabbath was over, Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome bought spices so that they might go to anoint Jesus’ body.

Luke 23:55-56 The women who had come with Jesus from Galilee followed Joseph and saw the tomb and how his body was laid in it. Then they went home and prepared spices and perfumes. But they rested on the Sabbath in obedience to the commandment.

Luke 24:1 On the first day of the week, very early in the morning, the women took the spices they had prepared and went to the tomb.

As you can see that not all of Jesus's followers deserted Him. The women that followed Him in His life and death continued to do so. The male disciples may have deserted Jesus, but the women did not. In fact, the women became that first apostles of Jesus according to Luke's account.