Are denominations hinted at in the scripture?

[WIP]

Again, we agree that leg wear doctrine is not gospel (good news). Yet I am not going to pass judgment on the Amish or any others inhabiting the 'boonies' who practice a more strict dress code, as being heretical. I would also hope they, as fellow Christians, return the favor.

I would agree with this but some discretion is valid. We have a few Amish living around here and one of them has been attending our monthly men's group meeting sponsored by our church. It has been interesting listening to him talk about their traditions. We have also witnessed his transformation away from the Amish community because as he put it, "They have wrongly taught tradition as gospel." This is where he felt he had to draw the line. I think this can and does happen in many denominations where what was once tradition have now been reclassified as necessary for salvation. We must always keep our guard up for heresy.

 

[Sinthesis]

You cannot say all because Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother, plus other women went to the tomb after Shabbat had concluded to find it empty.

Matthew 28:1 After the Sabbath, at dawn on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to look at the tomb.

Mark 16:1 When the Sabbath was over, Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome bought spices so that they might go to anoint Jesus’ body.

Luke 23:55-56 The women who had come with Jesus from Galilee followed Joseph and saw the tomb and how his body was laid in it. Then they went home and prepared spices and perfumes. But they rested on the Sabbath in obedience to the commandment.

Luke 24:1 On the first day of the week, very early in the morning, the women took the spices they had prepared and went to the tomb.

As you can see that not all of Jesus's followers deserted Him. The women that followed Him in His life and death continued to do so. The male disciples may have deserted Jesus, but the women did not. In fact, the women became that first apostles of Jesus according to Luke's account.

Did the women believe Jesus was dead or alive? The women were just as devastated and disillusioned with the death of their Messiah as the men. There is a difference between paying respects to the deceased and trusting in the Risen Lord. We have a hard time putting ourselves in their shoes because we already know what happened next.

 

[CalledToServe]

Did the women believe Jesus was dead or alive? The women were just as devastated and disillusioned with the death of their Messiah as the men. There is a difference between paying respects to the deceased and trusting in the Risen Lord. We have a hard time putting ourselves in their shoes because we already know what happened next.

You're moving goal posts. It doesn't matter since nothing is recorded on His female followers on how they felt. For that matter, there's nothing recorded about His male followers either.

 

[Sinthesis]

I would agree with this but some discretion is valid. We have a few Amish living around here and one of them has been attending our monthly men's group meeting sponsored by our church. It has been interesting listening to him talk about their traditions. We have also witnessed his transformation away from the Amish community because as he put it, "They have wrongly taught tradition as gospel." This is where he felt he had to draw the line. I think this can and does happen in many denominations where what was once tradition have now been reclassified as necessary for salvation. We must always keep our guard up for heresy.

Sometimes my discretion suffers at the hands of my arrogance.;) I would be interested in whether or not he believes the community he is leaving is damned because of their tradition. I think there is a difference between the lines demarcating Christian denominations, and the line separating Christianity from cults.

 

[Sinthesis]

You're moving goal posts. It doesn't matter since nothing is recorded on His female followers on how they felt. For that matter, there's nothing recorded about His male followers either.

It's recorded in the Gospels. You just have to look after you've laid aside the vanity of human nature that says "If I was there I would not have forsaken Him" and just accept that you are no better or worse than they, but have the benefit of knowing the rest of the story.

 

[CalledToServe]

It's recorded in the Gospels. You just have to look after you've laid aside the vanity of human nature that says "If I was there I would not have forsaken Him" and just accept that you are no better or worse than they, but have the benefit of knowing the rest of the story.

If you would care to point out my hubris where I specifically stated that I was better than them, but you can't. I never made that statement, so your strawmanning. Stop moving the goal posts because it doesn't say in the Gospels about how the women felt.

 

[WIP]

Sometimes my discretion suffers at the hands of my arrogance.;) I would be interested in whether or not he believes the community he is leaving is damned because of their tradition. I think there is a difference between the lines demarcating Christian denominations, and the line separating Christianity from cults.

That question was never brought to him and he never offered. Based on what I know of him, I wouldn't expect him to make that judgment but rather leave it up to God.

 

[dadof10]

You must have a guilt complex? (it is a tough conviction huh! Acts 9:5!)

Rev. 2:
[5] Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else [I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick] out of his place, except thou repent.

And Josh. 7:12 last part of the verse..
[11] Israel hath sinned, and they have also transgressed my covenant which I commanded them: for they have even taken of the accursed thing, and have also stolen, and dissembled also, and they have put it even among their own stuff.
[12] Therefore the children of Israel could not stand before their enemies, but turned their backs before their enemies, because they were accursed: neither will I be with you any more, [except ye destroy the accursed from among you].

And you claim :seehearspeak???
Well you did not ask, but I see only one Virgin Denomination joining all of the rest.
And Eze. 9 finds the only ones saved, withh all the rest being slaghtered.

But this prophecy is just as you say to you... 'Ignoring this anti-Catholic babble'. Yet, we know that it is much more than that. For it include's your jesuite daughters now, as well.

--Elijah

I notice you ignored my response and instead decided to ramp up the anti-Catholic attacks. The Church is not the topic here.


Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

 

[Elijah674]

I notice you ignored my response and instead decided to ramp up the anti-Catholic attacks. The Church is not the topic here.


Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

'i' find that any 'hinted at denomination' in scripture by Inspirition that is evil, finds your postings attacking the post person instead of what causes you to perhaps have a conscience problem?

Where had catholic been mentioned by me?? And now again you come back with the same old 2 Cor. 4:2 thing! And whatever your church membership is of, is this one of their denomination doctrines teachings??

2 Cor. 4
[1] Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not;
[2] But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.
[3] But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

--Elijah

 

[Elijah674]

With that being said, surely both a good & false doctrine have a church creed. And there is a Virgin Fold & at least one bad false denomination for satan to work through. The one & only one of the Lord’s is seen in Eph. 4:5 while satans are tabulated in Rev. 17:1-5 even in the compiler caps. Sure, woman & daughters are these false denominations. And ‘The Abomination of the Earth’ finds both the mother whore & harlot daughters still on the last scene of Earth’s history [World/Wide] & the whole as a UNITED group are seen below becoming worse as the day escalates.

2 Tim. 3

[13] But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.
[14] But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
[15] And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
[16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
[17] That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

And the UNITED GROUP? Again, there are just TWO bottom/line church’s seen in Gods Word, His & satan’s.

(and that is what it is all about. satan’s false folds or church’s (denominations) still have Christ Very OWN still yoked in satan church’s Membership who [MUST LEAVE!] Rev. 18:4 )

OK, UNITED yet being seperate church daughters means what? Christ explains in Matt. 6

[22] The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.
[23] But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!
[24] No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

And ones final judgment is clearly documented by James 2:8-12 with verse 10 being inclusive of all or any presumptions false Denominations teaching! Even in locating what Eternal Covenant Law that finds both adultery & murder located in it.

[8] If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
[9] But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
[10] For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
[11] For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
[12] So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

SO?? There are none who at one time that had been Born Again (Rom. 8:1 + ibid 14’s being LED!) that do not know what has been read here. And the DECISION is up to them. It will either be Phil. 4:13 + 2 Cor. 12:9 with MATURING to be safe to be saved, (Nah. 1:9) or their end as seen in Obadiah 1:16. It is just one of two ways.

--Elijah

 

[Sinthesis]

That question was never brought to him and he never offered. Based on what I know of him, I wouldn't expect him to make that judgment but rather leave it up to God.

I was being rhetorical, though it seems to me that type of stance is genuine with regards to mere Christan denominational differences between us and those we love. If the meek shall inherit the earth, then why do we spend so much time raging in the name of unity.

 

[Sinthesis]

If you would care to point out my hubris where I specifically stated that I was better than them, but you can't. I never made that statement, so your strawmanning. Stop moving the goal posts because it doesn't say in the Gospels about how the women felt.

It's not a personal hubris, but common to all people, and recorded explicitly through Peter's denial of Jesus. The humiliation of the Crucifixion is the stumbling block which tripped up every single Jew in their acceptance of Jesus as Christ. The Resurrection is the antidote. It is dangerous to think that some of God's People did not need the Resurrection.

If, on the morning of third day, the women knew Jesus was still really the Promised Messiah, then why were they bringing to the tomb prepared spices for a corpse, rather than a clean change of clothes and a boxed lunch?

 

[CalledToServe]

It's not a personal hubris, but common to all people, and recorded explicitly through Peter's denial of Jesus. The humiliation of the Crucifixion is the stumbling block which tripped up every single Jew in their acceptance of Jesus as Christ. The Resurrection is the antidote. It is dangerous to think that some of God's People did not need the Resurrection.

If, on the morning of third day, the women knew Jesus was still really the Promised Messiah, then why were they bringing to the tomb prepared spices for a corpse, rather than a clean change of clothes and a boxed lunch?

No matter how you try to slice and deny these women the important distinction of being the only "Christians" to being faithful to Jesus as well them being the first Apostles it still happened that way according to scripture. It also still makes them Christians since they followed Christ. Do you deny that they did follow Christ? Do you deny them being the first Apostles?

 

[tessiewebb]

As you can see that not all of Jesus's followers deserted Him. The women that followed Him in His life and death continued to do so. The male disciples may have deserted Jesus, but the women did not. In fact, the women became that first apostles of Jesus according to Luke's account.

Have to take some exception to this post though I'd rather not since it is true that women were among His disciples, some opinions to the contrary. However, the male disciples did not "desert Jesus" as opposed to the women disciples, as implied here. They were gathered together somewhere so that the two Marys and Salome were sent to tell the disciples "and Peter" they'd see Him in Galilee. (Mk 16:7) They may not have joined the women in bringing ointments for his body, but the other disciples were somewhere together and still called "His disciples".

 

[heymikey80]

I think denominations are mentioned ... with advantage and disadvantage.

And profuse apologies if I missed someone posting this same kind of response. I read, I'm just not sure I was vigilant.

I think Paul mentions a whole lot of abuses of denominational differences in 1 Corinthians, at 1:, 3:, and 11:17ff to name only a few. However, Paul doesn't consider them "all bad". He said in 1 Cor 11:19 that (paraphrasing), "I know you guys have factions, and sometimes they're good: you get to compare different ideas and one that shows itself to be the truth." Or so it seems to say to me?

In any event, it does seem to fit with Jesus' idea, too. Denominations may have different ideas of how theology works. But churches that are Christ Jesus' are those churches which rely on Him. Many of the early controversies of the church were thus struggles over Who Jesus is, and logically so. If you're not relying on Christ, then you're not in Christ's church. But errors can certainly be tolerated on non-essentials. Certainly even the disciples had misconceptions about Jesus: and they knew Him, Incarnate. Only God's perfect. We're not.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

ABSOLUTELY!!!

Could denominations be somehow started even at Paul's time?

Of course - you see factions forming in Corinthians, and in other books. Denationalization is inevitable, and provides protection against a "United" but immature and carnal church system.

 

[CalledToServe]

Have to take some exception to this post though I'd rather not since it is true that women were among His disciples, some opinions to the contrary. However, the male disciples did not "desert Jesus" as opposed to the women disciples, as implied here. They were gathered together somewhere so that the two Marys and Salome were sent to tell the disciples "and Peter" they'd see Him in Galilee. (Mk 16:7) They may not have joined the women in bringing ointments for his body, but the other disciples were somewhere together and still called "His disciples".

I appreciate you pointing out something, but if you read my wording I left it ambiguous about the male disciples deserting Jesus. I said, "may have'. It was Sinthesis that flat out stated that Jesus's disciples deserted Him after He died.

 

[Sinthesis]

Re: ABSOLUTELY!!!

Could denominations be somehow started even at Paul's time?

Of course - you see factions forming in Corinthians, and in other books. Denationalization is inevitable, and provides protection against a "United" but immature and carnal church system.

Good point!

 

[tessiewebb]

Re: I think denominations are mentioned ... with advantage and disadvantage.

If you're not relying on Christ, then you're not in Christ's church. But errors can certainly be tolerated on non-essentials. Certainly even the disciples had misconceptions about Jesus: and they knew Him, Incarnate.

It's very true that if we're not depending on Christ's work on the Cross that we are not in His Body. So little is preached and taught about His work. As if "we're saved" is the end. But "non-essentials" is the word that got this post started. Who decides what are "non-essentials"? If all Scripture is God breathed is it possible that some are "non-essentials"? Because the disciples had misconceptions about Him..does this mean it can continue to be so without consequences? Since the Spirit leads us into all truth...why is it we continue to stay without ALL truth?

 

[Elijah674]

Of course the Creation is all about Worship! But whom is the test!?? Ecc. 1:9-10 +Eccl. 3:15

Exod.20


[1] And God spake all these words, saying,
[2] I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
[3] Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
[4] Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
[5] Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
[6] And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
[7] Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
[8] Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
[9] Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
[10] But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
[11] For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

And WHORE??

Exod. 34

[14] For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God:
[15] Lest thou make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land, and they go a whoring after their gods , and do sacrifice unto their gods, and one call thee, and thou eat of his sacrifice;
[16] And thou take of their daughters unto thy sons, and their daughters go a whoring after their gods, and make thy sons go a whoring after their gods.


Jer.17

[1] The sin of Judah is written with a pen of iron, and with the point of a diamond: it is graven upon the table of their heart, and upon the horns of your altars;
[2] Whilst their children remember their altars and their groves by the green trees upon the high hills.
[3] O my mountain in the field, I will give thy substance and all thy treasures to the spoil, and thy high places for sin, throughout all thy borders.
[4] And thou, even thyself, shalt discontinue from thine heritage that I gave thee; and I will cause thee to serve thine enemies in the land which thou knowest not: for ye have kindled a fire in mine anger, which shall burn for ever.
[5] Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD.


Jer, 46 for more proof of satan’s false WORSHIP of him!

[25] The LORD of hosts, the God of Israel, saith; Behold, I will punish the multitude of No, and Pharaoh, and Egypt, with their gods, and their kings; even Pharaoh, and all them that trust in him:


Exod. 18

[11] Now I know that the LORD is greater than [all gods] for in the thing wherein they dealt proudly he was above them. (yet one must know where satan is Worshiped as the little professed ‘g’od! See Gen. 4:7 even being DESIRED)


Isa. 14:12-14 OK:

[12] How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
[13] For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
[14] I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. (and to be ‘like’ the most high, he HAS A CHURCH TO WORK IN & FROM! + daughters in he end time!

And more ‘g’ods seen in the O.T. for satan to be worshiped in Ex. 23

[20] Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared.
[21] Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him.
[22] But if thou shalt indeed obey his voice, and do all that I speak; then I will be an enemy unto thine enemies, and an adversary unto thine adversaries.
[23] For mine Angel shall go before thee, and bring thee in unto the Amorites, and the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Canaanites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites: and I will cut them off.
[24] Thou shalt not bow down to their gods, nor serve them, nor do after their works: but thou shalt utterly overthrow them, and quite break down their images.
[25] And ye shall serve the LORD your God, and he shall bless thy bread, and thy water; and I will take sickness away from the midst of thee.

Surely one can be sure that satan has always had a church with his followes!

Rev. 17

[2] With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication. (false satanic doctrine)
[3] So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. (as in Dan. 7’s Governments)
[4] And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
[5] And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF [[THE EARTH]].


OK: Do a study of your church & their doctrines! But pay strict attention to Rev. 3:9 for what claim is made here by this once Virgin Church!

[7] And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;
[8] I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.
[9] Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
[10] Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. (666)

_______________

What church is ‘world/wide’? and daughters who are also world/wide? And what do the stll hold in common?

And ‘Images’? + much else. And do not bow down to them, (or man) do you mean that you have never seen this before?? (+ even kiss the ring on the finger!)

And these men have sinner’s confess their sins to them who have even been documented in courts of law as immoral, and this does not violate the very first 3 commandments of worship to God?

And these cults do not have a second book held above the Bible with the law of God being changed by man? (Mark 7:7) which Webster’s dictionary say’s is a summery (or test of religious doctrine).

And their Godly claim?? “The Pope is not only the representative of Jesus Christ, but is Jesus Chris Himself, hidden under veil of flesh.’ –The Catholic National, July 1895.

And Rome’s daughters + most in/house off/shoots? On this requirement they still bring the fruit offering of apostate Cain in their sun worship for God’s requirement of His 7th Day Sabbath Commandment.

And again look at what their mother says about that..

‘Prove to me from the Bible alone that I am bound to keep Sunday holy. There is no such law in the Bible. It is a law of the holy Catholic Church alone. The Bible says ‘Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy.’ The Catholic Church says, No. By my divine power I abolish the Sabbath day and command you to keep holy the first day of the week. And Lo! The entire civilized world bows down in reverant obedience to the command of the Holy Catholic Church.’ –Thomas Enright, CSSR, President, Redemption College (Roman Catholic), Kansas City, Mo., Feb. 18, 1884.

And by doing this.. they not only BLASPHEME GOD HIMSELF, but also thumb their nose at His WORD!

Eze. 8

[15] Then said he unto me, Hast thou seen this, O son of man? turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations than these.
[16] And he brought me into the inner court of the LORD's house, and, behold, at the door of the temple of the LORD, between the porch and the altar, were about five and twenty men, with their backs toward the temple of the LORD, and their faces toward the east; and they worshipped the sun toward the east.
[17] Then he said unto me, Hast thou seen this, O son of man? Is it a light thing to the house of Judah that they commit the abominations which they commit here? for they have filled the land with violence, and have returned to provoke me to anger: and, lo, they put the branch to their nose.
[18] Therefore will I also deal in fury: mine eye shall not spare, neither will I have pity: and though they cry in mine ears with a loud voice, yet will I not hear them. (and this is EXACTLY the time/frame that you are entering in as seen in Matt. 24:21 on!

And the very ELECT will be tested by these very ones following on verse 21.

---Elijah