Are denominations hinted at in the scripture?

[Elijah674]

Exod.20

[1] And God spake all these words, saying,
[2] I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
[3] Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
[4] Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
[5] Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
[6] And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
[7] Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
[8] Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
[9] Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
[10] But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
[11] For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.


And WHORE??

Exod. 34

[14] For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God:
[15] Lest thou make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land, and they go a whoring after their gods , and do sacrifice unto their gods, and one call thee, and thou eat of his sacrifice;
[16] And thou take of their daughters unto thy sons, and their daughters go a whoring after their gods, and make thy sons go a whoring after their gods.



Jer.17

[1] The sin of Judah is written with a pen of iron, and with the point of a diamond: it is graven upon the table of their heart, and upon the horns of your altars;
[2] Whilst their children remember their altars and their groves by the green trees upon the high hills.
[3] O my mountain in the field, I will give thy substance and all thy treasures to the spoil, and thy high places for sin, throughout all thy borders.
[4] And thou, even thyself, shalt discontinue from thine heritage that I gave thee; and I will cause thee to serve thine enemies in the land which thou knowest not: for ye have kindled a fire in mine anger, which shall burn for ever.
[5] Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD.



Jer, 46 for more proof of satan’s false WORSHIP of him!

[25] The LORD of hosts, the God of Israel, saith; Behold, I will punish the multitude of No, and Pharaoh, and Egypt, with their gods, and their kings; even Pharaoh, and all them that trust in him:

Exod. 18

[11] Now I know that the LORD is greater than [all gods] for in the thing wherein they dealt proudly he was above them. (yet one must know where satan is Worshiped as the little professed ‘g’od! See Gen. 4:7 even being DESIRED)

Isa. 14:12-14 OK:

[12] How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
[13] For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
[14] I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. (and to be ‘like’ the most high, he HAS A CHURCH TO WORK IN & FROM! + daughters in he end time!



And more ‘g’ods seen in the O.T. for satan to be worshiped in Ex. 23

[20] Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared.
[21] Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him.
[22] But if thou shalt indeed obey his voice, and do all that I speak; then I will be an enemy unto thine enemies, and an adversary unto thine adversaries.
[23] For mine Angel shall go before thee, and bring thee in unto the Amorites, and the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Canaanites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites: and I will cut them off.
[24] Thou shalt not bow down to their gods, nor serve them, nor do after their works: but thou shalt utterly overthrow them, and quite break down their images.
[25] And ye shall serve the LORD your God, and he shall bless thy bread, and thy water; and I will take sickness away from the midst of thee.






Surely one can be sure that satan has always had a church with his followes!

Rev. 17

[2] With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication. (false satanic doctrine)
[3] So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. (as in Dan. 7’s Governments)
[4] And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
[5] And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF [[THE EARTH]].





OK: Do a study of your church & their doctrines! But pay strict attention to Rev. 3:9 for what claim is made here by this once Virgin Church!

[7] And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;
[8] I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.
[9] Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
[10] Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. (666)





_______________


What church is ‘world/wide’? and that has daughters who are also world/wide? And what do they still hold in common?

And ‘Images’? + much else. And do not bow down to them, (or man) do you mean that you have never seen this before?? (+ even kiss the ring on the finger!)

And these men have sinner’s confess their sins to them who have even been documented in courts of law as immoral, and this does not violate the very first 3 commandments of worship to God?

And these cults do not have a second book held above the Bible with the law of God being changed by man? (Mark 7:7) which Webster’s dictionary say’s is a summery (or test of religious doctrine).

And their Godly claim?? “The Pope is not only the representative of Jesus Christ, but is Jesus Chris Himself, hidden under veil of flesh.’ –The Catholic National, July 1895.

And Rome’s daughters + most in/house off/shoots? On this requirement they still bring the fruit offering as did apostate Cain in their sun worship for God’s requirement of His 7th Day Sabbath Commandment.

And again look at what their mother says about that..

‘Prove to me from the Bible alone that I am bound to keep Sunday holy. There is no such law in the Bible. It is a law of the holy Catholic Church alone. The Bible says ‘Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy.’ The Catholic Church says, No. By my divine power I abolish the Sabbath day and command you to keep holy the first day of the week. And Lo! The entire civilized world bows down in reverant obedience to the command of the Holy Catholic Church.’ –Thomas Enright, CSSR, President, Redemption College (Roman Catholic), Kansas City, Mo., Feb. 18, 1884.

And by doing this.. they not only BLASPHEME GOD HIMSELF, but also thumb their nose at His WORD!

Eze. 8

[15] Then said he unto me, Hast thou seen this, O son of man? turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations than these.
[16] And he brought me into the inner court of the LORD's house, and, behold, at the door of the temple of the LORD, between the porch and the altar, were about five and twenty men, with their backs toward the temple of the LORD, and their faces toward the east; and they worshipped the sun toward the east.
[17] Then he said unto me, Hast thou seen this, O son of man? Is it a light thing to the house of Judah that they commit the abominations which they commit here? for they have filled the land with violence, and have returned to provoke me to anger: and, lo, they put the branch to their nose.
[18] Therefore will I also deal in fury: mine eye shall not spare, neither will I have pity: and though they cry in mine ears with a loud voice, yet will I not hear them. (and this is EXACTLY the time/frame that you are entering in as seen in Matt. 24:21 on!





And the very ELECT will be tested by these very ones following on verse 21.

---Elijah

 

[dadof10]

'i' find that any 'hinted at denomination' in scripture by Inspirition that is evil, finds your postings attacking the post person instead of what causes you to perhaps have a conscience problem?

Where had catholic been mentioned by me?? And now again you come back with the same old 2 Cor. 4:2 thing! And whatever your church membership is of, is this one of their denomination doctrines teachings??

What church is ‘world/wide’? and that has daughters who are also world/wide? And what do they still hold in common?

And ‘Images’? + much else. And do not bow down to them, (or man) do you mean that you have never seen this before?? (+ even kiss the ring on the finger!)

And these men have sinner’s confess their sins to them who have even been documented in courts of law as immoral, and this does not violate the very first 3 commandments of worship to God?

And these cults do not have a second book held above the Bible with the law of God being changed by man? (Mark 7:7) which Webster’s dictionary say’s is a summery (or test of religious doctrine).

And their Godly claim?? “The Pope is not only the representative of Jesus Christ, but is Jesus Chris Himself, hidden under veil of flesh.’ –The Catholic National, July 1895.

And Rome’s daughters + most in/house off/shoots? On this requirement they still bring the fruit offering as did apostate Cain in their sun worship for God’s requirement of His 7th Day Sabbath Commandment.

And again look at what their mother says about that..

‘Prove to me from the Bible alone that I am bound to keep Sunday holy. There is no such law in the Bible. It is a law of the holy Catholic Church alone. The Bible says ‘Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy.’ The Catholic Church says, No. By my divine power I abolish the Sabbath day and command you to keep holy the first day of the week. And Lo! The entire civilized world bows down in reverant obedience to the command of the Holy Catholic Church.’ –Thomas Enright, CSSR, President, Redemption College (Roman Catholic), Kansas City, Mo., Feb. 18, 1884.

And by doing this.. they not only BLASPHEME GOD HIMSELF, but also thumb their nose at His WORD!

Eze. 8

[15] Then said he unto me, Hast thou seen this, O son of man? turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations than these.
[16] And he brought me into the inner court of the LORD's house, and, behold, at the door of the temple of the LORD, between the porch and the altar, were about five and twenty men, with their backs toward the temple of the LORD, and their faces toward the east; and they worshipped the sun toward the east.
[17] Then he said unto me, Hast thou seen this, O son of man? Is it a light thing to the house of Judah that they commit the abominations which they commit here? for they have filled the land with violence, and have returned to provoke me to anger: and, lo, they put the branch to their nose.
[18] Therefore will I also deal in fury: mine eye shall not spare, neither will I have pity: and though they cry in mine ears with a loud voice, yet will I not hear them. (and this is EXACTLY the time/frame that you are entering in as seen in Matt. 24:21 on!





And the very ELECT will be tested by these very ones following on verse 21.

Hummm.... I wonder where I got the idea that when you start mentioning "whores" and "beasts", you are talking about the Catholic Church? Maybe from every other post from you? I guess my "conscience problem" can finally be put to rest now.

 

[Elijah674]

Hummm.... I wonder where I got the idea that when you start mentioning "whores" and "beasts", you are talking about the Catholic Church? Maybe from every other post from you? I guess my "conscience problem" can finally be put to rest now.

Same old attacking the person as good jesuits do?? (As 'i' have read) And the mind reading about my [[post]] seen here is another.. way off base 'false judgement' by the post person. (who/ever they are?) But why not stay to the topic??

My point was that there was a post that had asked me a queston, and I supplied scriptural answers from both history & Bible Truth's. And the 'conscience' remark was because of what Christ said to Saul (Paul to be.. but not yet as seen in the verse) about kicking against the conscience being pricked by the Holy Spirit at Steven's trial. Acts 7 read by most could find that Saul was their hearing Stephans testimony of Christ. (ibid58) And surely Saul was in the wrong 'ex/house' of this DESOLATE HOUSE. Matt. 23:38

So one can never know who it might be that could be a type worker as what Saul became, without first checking out the sincerity of the person. And Titus 3:9-11 quickly does this as I see it.

Any how, I run into a few of the ones from all denominations who yield to the Holy Spirits Strivings every now and again. And I was just asking for this reason.

Now about your remark of...

Hummm.... I wonder where I got the idea that when you start mentioning "whores" and "beasts", you are talking about the Catholic Church? Maybe from every other post from you? I guess my "conscience problem" can finally be put to rest now.

... there are many of God's 'honest' children in even the catholic church that are leaving which had been in ignorance thinking that Christ could be in that openly seen documented stuff of what is dailly seen in print & on the world/wide News-casts.

And the only way ones conscience can be put to rest.. is either in Obedience or sinning a sin so Psalms 19:13 Presumptiously that the Holy Spirit can NO LONGER REACH HIM. And romes false teaching have been around KNOWINGLY for well past the 120 yrs. of the preaching of Noah & the STRIVING OF THE HOLY SPIRIT to them!

So, it seems that you have answered your own question about your conscience being put to rest!

--Elijah

 

[dadof10]

Same old attacking the person as good jesuits do?? (As 'i' have read) And the mind reading about my [[post]] seen here is another.. way off base 'false judgement' by the post person. (who/ever they are?) But why not stay to the topic??

My point was that there was a post that had asked me a queston, and I supplied scriptural answers from both history & Bible Truth's. And the 'conscience' remark was because of what Christ said to Saul (Paul to be.. but not yet as seen in the verse) about kicking against the conscience being pricked by the Holy Spirit at Steven's trial. Acts 7 read by most could find that Saul was their hearing Stephans testimony of Christ. (ibid58) And surely Saul was in the wrong 'ex/house' of this DESOLATE HOUSE. Matt. 23:38

So one can never know who it might be that could be a type worker as what Saul became, without first checking out the sincerity of the person. And Titus 3:9-11 quickly does this as I see it.

Any how, I run into a few of the ones from all denominations who yield to the Holy Spirits Strivings every now and again. And I was just asking for this reason.

Now about your remark of...
... there are many of God's 'honest' children in even the catholic church that are leaving which had been in ignorance thinking that Christ could be in that openly seen documented stuff of what is dailly seen in print & on the world/wide News-casts.

And the only way ones conscience can be put to rest.. is either in Obedience or sinning a sin so Psalms 19:13 Presumptiously that the Holy Spirit can NO LONGER REACH HIM. And romes false teaching have been around KNOWINGLY for well past the 120 yrs. of the preaching of Noah & the STRIVING OF THE HOLY SPIRIT to them!

So, it seems that you have answered your own question about your conscience being put to rest!

--Elijah

Just pointing out a fact. I don't really want to converse with you, Elijah674. To tell you the truth, you go off in so many tangents, pulling verses from everywhere that have nothing to do with each other in an attempt to make a point, I can't possibly respond to all of your mistakes, even if I wanted to. It would take most of my waking hours. Farewell.

 

[tessiewebb]

I appreciate you pointing out something, but if you read my wording I left it ambiguous about the male disciples deserting Jesus. I said, "may have'. It was Sinthesis that flat out stated that Jesus's disciples deserted Him after He died.

Yes, CalledtoServe, you did and I had hoped I made that clear in my post. Thank you for clarifying it again.

 

[Sinthesis]

Yes, CalledtoServe, you did and I had hoped I made that clear in my post. Thank you for clarifying it again.

Yep, it was me that flat out stated that Jesus' disciples deserted Him after He died; but Somebody else predicted it.;)

Jhn 16:32 - Behold, the hour cometh, yea, is now come, that ye shall be scattered, every man to his own, and shall leave me alone: and yet I am not alone, because the Father is with me.​

The point being that unessential denominational differences within Christianity are a lot easier to tolerate when we accept that everyone needed the proof of Jesus' resurrection to confirm His authority, and therefore the validity of His teachings.

 

[tessiewebb]

Yep, it was me that flat out stated that Jesus' disciples deserted Him after He died; but Somebody else predicted it.;)

Jhn 16:32 - Behold, the hour cometh, yea, is now come, that ye shall be scattered, every man to his own, and shall leave me alone: and yet I am not alone, because the Father is with me.​

The point being that unessential denominational differences within Christianity are a lot easier to tolerate when we accept that everyone needed the proof of Jesus' resurrection to confirm His authority, and therefore the validity of His teachings.

Yes, Sinthesis, He certainly did predict it but John was at the Cross and the others had regrouped at some point for they were together when Jesus sent Mary to them as His disciples. I don't think He was predicting just the disciples anyway, but "EVERY man to his own". And that is the problem with denominations. The old testament has it as "In those days [there was] no king in Israel, [but] every man did [that which was] right in his own eyes." and "Every way of a man [is] right in his own eyes: but Yahweh pondereth the hearts. " Judges 17:6 and Prov 21:2

You said "....unessential denominational differences within Christianity are a lot easier to tolerate when we accept that everyone needed the proof of Jesus' resurrection to confirm His authority, and therefore the validity of His teachings."

Why tolerate? What is unessential about differences? That is my point. And if everyone still needs proof of Jesus' resurrection to confirm His authority' and teachings, is that acceptable to Yahweh? Is it really up to us to decide what is and is not essential about the Gospel?

 

[Elijah674]

Yes, Sinthesis, He certainly did predict it but John was at the Cross and the others had regrouped at some point for they were together when Jesus sent Mary to them as His disciples. I don't think He was predicting just the disciples anyway, but "EVERY man to his own". And that is the problem with denominations. The old testament has it as "In those days [there was] no king in Israel, [but] every man did [that which was] right in his own eyes." and "Every way of a man [is] right in his own eyes: but Yahweh pondereth the hearts. " Judges 17:6 and Prov 21:2

You said "....unessential denominational differences within Christianity are a lot easier to tolerate when we accept that everyone needed the proof of Jesus' resurrection to confirm His authority, and therefore the validity of His teachings."

Why tolerate? What is unessential about differences? That is my point. And if everyone still needs proof of Jesus' resurrection to confirm His authority' and teachings, is that acceptable to Yahweh? Is it really up to us to decide what is and is not essential about the Gospel?

Matt. 4
[4] But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

 

[Sinthesis]

Yes, Sinthesis, He certainly did predict it but John was at the Cross and the others had regrouped at some point for they were together when Jesus sent Mary to them as His disciples. I don't think He was predicting just the disciples anyway, but "EVERY man to his own". And that is the problem with denominations. The old testament has it as "In those days [there was] no king in Israel, [but] every man did [that which was] right in his own eyes." and "Every way of a man [is] right in his own eyes: but Yahweh pondereth the hearts. " Judges 17:6 and Prov 21:2

However, we are not living within the old testament. Christ has sent us the Holy Spirit to whom we Christians turn for authority in determining truth. Because Christians all appeal to the same Holy Spirit, we can be sure that any differences among Christians are not significant.

You said "....unessential denominational differences within Christianity are a lot easier to tolerate when we accept that everyone needed the proof of Jesus' resurrection to confirm His authority, and therefore the validity of His teachings."

Why tolerate?

What does Paul teach us regarding differences among believers?

What is unessential about differences?

Doctrinal differences are essential within the Body of Christ. Do you suppose Paul's teaching on the Body of Christ only pertains to individuals? It also pertains to denominations, allowing specialized groups of believers to do the work of God where/when an individual would be insufficient.

That is my point. And if everyone still needs proof of Jesus' resurrection to confirm His authority' and teachings, is that acceptable to Yahweh?

What does Jesus say?

Jhn 20:29 - Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed [are] they that have not seen, and [yet] have believed.​

Is it really up to us to decide what is and is not essential about the Gospel?

Again; essential Christian doctrine is that which unites all Christian denominations under one Gospel. Any doctrinal differences that differentiate denominations within Christianity are not differences in the Gospel; these are unessential differences. If you preach a different gospel then you are not in the Body of Christ.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

So what do you guys say? Could denominations be somehow started even at Paul's time?

Can someone save me the time looking through all these posts and tell me if someone has shared this?

"11 ...I have been informed concerning you, my brethren, by Chloe’s people, that there are quarrels among you. 12 Now I mean this, that each one of you is saying, “I am of Paul,†and “I of Apollos,†and “I of Cephas,†and “I of Christ.†13 Has Christ been divided?" (1 Corinthians. 1:11-13 NASB)

I think it's pretty clear denominational divisions were present during Paul's time.

 

[tessiewebb]

However, we are not living within the old testament. Christ has sent us the Holy Spirit to whom we Christians turn for authority in determining truth. Because Christians all appeal to the same Holy Spirit, we can be sure that any differences among Christians are not significant.


What does Paul teach us regarding differences among believers?


Doctrinal differences are essential within the Body of Christ. Do you suppose Paul's teaching on the Body of Christ only pertains to individuals? It also pertains to denominations, allowing specialized groups of believers to do the work of God where/when an individual would be insufficient.


What does Jesus say?

Jhn 20:29 - Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed [are] they that have not seen, and [yet] have believed.​

Again; essential Christian doctrine is that which unites all Christian denominations under one Gospel. Any doctrinal differences that differentiate denominations within Christianity are not differences in the Gospel; these are unessential differences. If you preach a different gospel then you are not in the Body of Christ.

Paul certainly didn't seem to think differences were "essential" and what are "specialized" groups of believers, anyway? Are you saying that, for instance, Baptists have one "job" within the Body and Pentecostals another? For the sake of Jesus' return, Sinthesis, think what you are saying! Is Christ divided?

What "job" does one denominational group have that another doesn't? When Paul spoke of the different functions of the Body he most assuredly was not speaking of "groups of believers", he specifically states that each ONE has a function. One is one.

Gifts are distributed according to the will of God, but they are only different according to the person, not groups. Can you not see that denominations are a man made construct, built on their founders assurance that they alone have the truth? And that therefore denominations are exactly in the position that Paul warned the Corinthians about? One saying "I am of Paul..."

Your post is very troublesome, sinthesis. If as you say, we all "appeal to the Holy Spirit" and therefore divisions are not "significant", how is it there are differences at all???? Is the Holy Spirit divided in His bringing to us all things Jesus spoke?

 

[tessiewebb]

Can someone save me the time looking through all these posts and tell me if someone has shared this?

"11 ...I have been informed concerning you, my brethren, by Chloe’s people, that there are quarrels among you. 12 Now I mean this, that each one of you is saying, “I am of Paul,†and “I of Apollos,†and “I of Cephas,†and “I of Christ.†13 Has Christ been divided?" (1 Corinthians. 1:11-13 NASB)

I think it's pretty clear denominational divisions were present during Paul's time.

It was shared, Jethro, but it certainly bears repeating that it states there were "quarrels" among them in the version you quoted. So I say again, "Is Christ divided?"

And yes, I say, He has. Into fragmented divisions that have kept the Body separated for far too many years.

Not only so, but the way so called "churches" conduct what are called "services" is also divisive and unscriptural. Separation of the Body into "clergy" and "laity" is most definitely divisive and harmful to the function of the Body smothering the "laity" under the blanket of misused power.

The very way "services" are constructed (by man) separates one anointed person from another, stifling the exercise of their gifts with one speaker dominating and the others silently listening. The furnishings of the "church" with pews arranged so that the users are seated shoulder to shoulder staring at the raised platform on which the "dignitaries" sit is against Scripture. The term "church" for a building in which the Body meets is unscriptural. Even the term "churches" is unscriptural.

Need I go on?

 

[heymikey80]

Re: I think denominations are mentioned ... with advantage and disadvantage.

It's very true that if we're not depending on Christ's work on the Cross that we are not in His Body. So little is preached and taught about His work. As if "we're saved" is the end. But "non-essentials" is the word that got this post started. Who decides what are "non-essentials"? If all Scripture is God breathed is it possible that some are "non-essentials"? Because the disciples had misconceptions about Him..does this mean it can continue to be so without consequences? Since the Spirit leads us into all truth...why is it we continue to stay without ALL truth?

Yet it seems really clear to me that Paul considers the people he's talking to, to be Christians.

Nobody human on earth today has ALL knowledge of the truth. If we did, we'd have to completely know the answer to the questions above.

What we do have, is a relationship with the One Who does. 1 Jn 5:12 The Holy Spirit guides us into all truth. Jn 16:13, cf 2 Cor 2. But if He's guiding us there, we haven't got there yet. More and more truths seem to constantly be revealed to Christ's people. And they're not all recorded, nor recorded purely enough. As a result, I think we have to take ourselves out of the running as the arbiters of truth. At best we can make practical judgment calls, heeding what God has said and does say to His church.

So on that basis, I can present what I've seen in Scripture, which is an authority. I can pass on what Scripture says. I don't have the authority to dictate what it says, nor do I have the authority to change what it says.

God decides the essentials, everything else is non-essential, and what's essential is in Scripture. 2 Tim 3:15, Jn 5:39

Some things in Scripture are not essential (2 Pt 3:16). The thief on the cross didn't know everything. He only knew the one Who did.

So we're dependent on the God of the Universe for our sufficiency.
(cf 2 Cor 3)

 

[Elijah674]

Re: I think denominations are mentioned ... with advantage and disadvantage.

Yet it seems really clear to me that Paul considers the people he's talking to, to be Christians.

Nobody human on earth today has ALL knowledge of the truth. If we did, we'd have to completely know the answer to the questions above.

What we do have, is a relationship with the One Who does. 1 Jn 5:12 The Holy Spirit guides us into all truth. Jn 16:13, cf 2 Cor 2. But if He's guiding us there, we haven't got there yet. More and more truths seem to constantly be revealed to Christ's people. And they're not all recorded, nor recorded purely enough. As a result, I think we have to take ourselves out of the running as the arbiters of truth. At best we can make practical judgment calls, heeding what God has said and does say to His church.

So on that basis, I can present what I've seen in Scripture, which is an authority. I can pass on what Scripture says. I don't have the authority to dictate what it says, nor do I have the authority to change what it says.

God decides the essentials, everything else is non-essential, and what's essential is in Scripture. 2 Tim 3:15, Jn 5:39

Some things in Scripture are not essential (2 Pt 3:16). The thief on the cross didn't know everything. He only knew the one Who did.

So we're dependent on the God of the Universe for our sufficiency.
(cf 2 Cor 3)

The verse mentioned was 1 Cor. 3:1-8. And Christians are still carnal.. meaning that they have made a profession but not the required maturity. (or are Born Again)

[1] And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
[2] I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.


[3] For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

[4] For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?
[5] Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?
[6] I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
[7] So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

--Elijah

 

[heymikey80]

Re: I think denominations are mentioned ... with advantage and disadvantage.

The verse mentioned was 1 Cor. 3:1-8. And Christians are still carnal.. meaning that they have made a profession but not the required maturity. (or are Born Again)

[1] And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
[2] I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.


[3] For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

[4] For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?
[5] Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?
[6] I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
[7] So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

--Elijah

What does Paul say about these carnal Christians?

"2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's: 3 Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ. 4 I thank my God always on your behalf, for the grace of God which is given you by Jesus Christ;" 1 Cor 1:2-4, ESV

The operative address here is to Christians, people to whom God addresses, "Peace", of whom Paul thanks God on their behalf, who have received the grace of God.

Are they carnal? Sure. Are they saved? If grace is grace, they're saved. "By grace you have been saved", Paul tells the Ephesians (2:8).

 

[tessiewebb]

Found this in a book called Joshua in the Holy Land by Joseph F. Girzone. I am quoting only part of it here:

"'Religion is a game with these people', Joshua said, 'and competition their liturgy. they are in love with their churches and traditions, not God. Their rituals are hollow praise.....'"

What is too often true of denominations couldn't have been said better. BTW, dictionary says liturgy is a collection of formularies for public worship or a particular arrangement of "services". The writer might have added they are in love with their particular arrangement of "services" as well.

 

[Sinthesis]

Found this in a book called Joshua in the Holy Land by Joseph F. Girzone. I am quoting only part of it here:

"'Religion is a game with these people', Joshua said, 'and competition their liturgy. they are in love with their churches and traditions, not God. Their rituals are hollow praise.....'"

What is too often true of denominations couldn't have been said better. BTW, dictionary says liturgy is a collection of formularies for public worship or a particular arrangement of "services". The writer might have added they are in love with their particular arrangement of "services" as well.

Like it or not, within the context of Christianity "these people" are our brothers in Christ.

Mat 5:21 ¶ Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
Mat 5:22 - But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
Mat 5:23 - Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee;
Mat 5:24 - Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.​

Sure it's easy to be offended by what others do. As long as the lowest common denominator is the Gospel Truth of Christ, so what?

 

[tessiewebb]

Like it or not, within the context of Christianity "these people" are our brothers in Christ.

Mat 5:21 ¶ Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
Mat 5:22 - But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
Mat 5:23 - Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee;
Mat 5:24 - Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.​

Sure it's easy to be offended by what others do. As long as the lowest common denominator is the Gospel Truth of Christ, so what?

First of all, we are told to avoid those who bring division into the Body. (Rom 16:17). 2ndly, there is no way of telling they are brothers and sisters because we don't know them and cannot discern their walks. They are locked into their "churches", lock-stepped in their arrangement of "services" and sitting on their pews. I would go out on a limb to say many are not even saved.

I'm not "offended" by the members of denominations, just don't want any part of it myself, and pray the ones who are captive to them will find a real relationship with God the Father and Jesus the Son. I am offended by the callous treatment of the Word of God which goes along with naming other names, preaching other gospels, and enforcing other doctrine.

That's so what