Bible Study Are "drunkards" going to Hell?

[for_his_glory]

I know non Catholics hate those extra books we have. I'm not about to go down that rabbit hole. Of defending books like Macabees . I try to avoid all or nothing thinking. Purgatory might exist just like Hell might exist. No one has been there and come back to tell the story.

Not going down any rabbit hole my friend, just putting it out there and let others make up their own mind.

 

[humble soul]

Not going down any rabbit hole my friend, just putting it out there and let others make up their own mind.

This is why I avoid Biblical arguments on here.
1. I am no Bible scholar
2. We start debating things that can't be proven either way

 

[Quantrill]

So, if one believes in the Son of God, what does that say about how that person will live? James says much about this. And Jesus too.

"He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.” Judas (not Iscariot) said to Him, “Lord, how is it that You will manifest Yourself to us, and not to the world?” Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him. He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father’s who sent Me."
John 14:21-24 NKJV

One who believes will live as a child of God. The whole Bible has much to say about that.

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

I think if you have believed in the Son of God, you go to heaven whether you're a drunkard or not. NONE of us would be declared righteous by the works of the law.. not just drunkards... and we all need the Son of God to have eternal life. these are bible verses that I believe show that.

-Romans 3:19-31 "Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.
But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— he did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.
Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. Because of what law? The law that requires works? No, because of the law that requires faith. For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law. Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too, since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith. Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law."

-Colossians 2:13-15 "When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross. And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross."

-John 6:26-29 "Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, you are looking for me, not because you saw the signs I performed but because you ate the loaves and had your fill. Do not work for food that spoils, but for food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you. For on him God the Father has placed his seal of approval.” Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?” Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”"

-Ephesians 2:8-9: " For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast."

-Ephesians 1:13-14: "And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory."

-Romans 7
Do you not know, brothers and sisters—for I am speaking to those who know the law—that the law has authority over someone only as long as that person lives? For example, by law a married woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive, but if her husband dies, she is released from the law that binds her to him. So then, if she has sexual relations with another man while her husband is still alive, she is called an adulteress. But if her husband dies, she is released from that law and is not an adulteress if she marries another man.

So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. For when we were in the realm of the flesh, the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in us, so that we bore fruit for death. But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code
What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless, I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.” But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of coveting. For apart from the law, sin was dead. Once I was alive apart from the law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death. For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death. So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good.

Did that which is good, then, become death to me? By no means! Nevertheless, in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it used what is good to bring about my death, so that through the commandment sin might become utterly sinful. We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature a slave to the law of sin."



-John 3:14-15 " And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in him may have eternal life."

what happened with Moses and the serpent in the wilderness? well when i read Numbers it made sense to me.. just look to Christ, believe in him. That's it.
-Numbers 21:6-9 "Then the Lord sent venomous snakes among them; they bit the people and many Israelites died. The people came to Moses and said, “We sinned when we spoke against the Lord and against you. Pray that the Lord will take the snakes away from us.” So Moses prayed for the people.
The Lord said to Moses, “Make a snake and put it up on a pole; anyone who is bitten can look at it and live.” So Moses made a bronze snake and put it up on a pole. Then when anyone was bitten by a snake and looked at the bronze snake, they lived."

~Romans 8:1-4 "Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death. For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit."


~Ephesians 1:13-14: "And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory."


-Romans 9:30-32"What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith; but the people of Israel, who pursued the law as the way of righteousness, have not attained their goal. Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone."


-John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."

What exactly does believing the Son of God mean? I think this following verse explains it really well for me at least..

-1 John 5:10-13 "Whoever believes in the Son of God accepts this testimony. Whoever does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because they have not believed the testimony God has given about his Son. And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life."

Exactly right.

Belief is the sole requirement. Some call it easy believism. But it isn't. Have you ever tried to make yourself believe something you don't. Impossible. Or, just the opposite. Try not believing something you do.

We believe because God has opened our eyes. (Matt. 16:17)

I may one day be tortured into confessing I don't believe it or I recant. But then, I would just be a liar.

Quantrill

 

[for_his_glory]

This is why I avoid Biblical arguments on here.
1. I am no Bible scholar
2. We start debating things that can't be proven either way

All things are proven in scripture if we search for truth as the Holy Spirit gives all of us who ask.

 

[Christ_empowered]

ok. im going to jump in here...

I came to Christ 8 years ago, a patched up burn out who had done too many pills (modern day drunkard, lol) and been electroshocked, etc. (the world's way of dealing with low status mess ups), and...and...


somehow, I have a "high IQ" (estimate), now, and my baseline from pre-drugs, shock, psychiatry...was 120 (120 is bright, smart, but not a high IQ). OK.

I don't know when the "high IQ" hit, or when, exactly, I was brought by His grace to the point at which I can be considered to have "recovered from 'treatment,' " which...was basically deliberately-inflicted brain damage (not being harsh and antipsychiatry, here...that's...what shock treatments and operations are, they're deliberately inflicted brain damage), so...

I'm inclined to believe that The Lord who spared, then saved and forgave me, and then saw fit to bless me, Matthew 6:33 - style, less than 10 years into truly Knowing Jesus...

is Love, is merciful, and extends grace and compassion, even pity to all sorts of people, in all sorts of situations.

my -inclination- is to believe that His form of (true, Real) Justice, in judging all souls, in this world and in the world to come...

probably reflect His mercy and eye towards restoration. giving up any besetting sin is a struggle, we're all frail and fallen creatures, He is the Creator, and...and...

by all means, those who do drugs, drink, etc. should strive to give up their sinful habits...I also think He rewards the humble and resists the proud, so...

as Christians, I think we should strive to be show a bit of humility in admitting our own, ongoing frailty and need for redemption. sanctification isn't complete till the end of this life, amen.

-shrug- knock and the door shall be opened. drawn nigh unto me and I shall draw nigh unto you.

it can be so, so hard to give up any number of sins, and Our Lord knows this...He is human, too, after all. I dunno. I guess I'm just jumping in here because I think God shows mercy, especially to those who have humbled themselves and prayed for His forgiveness and help, and...

in the meantime, the saying that 'where there's life, there's hope' definitely applies.

 

[Doug Brents]

1 Corinthians 6:9-11 says "drunkards" (among others) will NOT "inherit the kingdom of God". Are we to infer that they will be sent to Hell? Is it possible that drunkards go someplace else until they are purified of their alcoholism in order that they can, eventually, "inherit" the kingdom of Heaven?​

​

​

1 Corinthians 6:9-11​

​

​

​

9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

I think the answer is in the question. Is a drunkard someone who lives a lifestyle of sin? Yes, drunkenness is an abuse of the body, and abuse of the body is bad stewardship of the temple of God.

Anyone living a lifestyle of sin (drunkenness, fornication (and other sexual sin), adulatory, theft, idolatry, etc.), who continues in their sinful lifestyle even after baptism, is not saved.

This is not to say that a person (who is in Christ already) who drinks too much once is condemned, just as a person (who is in Christ already) who says a curse word when he stubs his toe is not condemned. The Blood of Christ continually cleanses us of all sin if we are striving to walk in the Light. But if we are not trying to walk in the Light, then the Blood does not continually cleanse us, and our sin cuts us off from God.

 

[daninthelionsden]

I believe there is a difference between the drunkard who drinks because of a cavalier outlook on life avoiding responsibility/accountability and the drunkard self medicating doing their best to cope with extreme abuse. I believe the Lord knows our hearts and demands obedience/grants grace at His will. There is so very much hurt in this world.

 

[GodsGrace]

1 Corinthians 6:9-11 says "drunkards" (among others) will NOT "inherit the kingdom of God". Are we to infer that they will be sent to Hell? Is it possible that drunkards go someplace else until they are purified of their alcoholism in order that they can, eventually, "inherit" the kingdom of Heaven?​

​

​

1 Corinthians 6:9-11​

​

​

​

9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

1 Corinthians 6:9-11 uses the term DRUNKARDS.
Drunkards will not see the Kingdom of God/Heaven.

The question becomes this:
Are we a drunkard
or
Are we a Christian person having a problem with alcohol
??

The power of the Holy Spirit can HELP us to overcome any condition if we are willing.
We might be a new Christian...or a mature Christian...that is having a particular problem...
It could be with alcohol or it could be anything else.

God knows if we're doing our best to overcome any habit that takes away from our body being
the Temple of God, meaning that we should not be doing harm to our bodies.

And He knows if we have just quit and given in to the evil one.

Your question does not have a clear-cut answer, but you've received some good replies...I like the reply
of daninthelionsden which agrees the most with mine. (or is it mine with his??!!)

 

[GodsGrace]

All things are proven in scripture if we search for truth as the Holy Spirit gives all of us who ask.

Purgatory is nowhere to be found in scripture, but the idea has been formed by some concepts in the bible.
For instance, one would be
1 Corinthians 3:15
15If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

Only problem is that it is speaking about the works of Paul and Apollos and how we are to build on that foundation.
Context is always king.

Another verse would be
Revelation 21:27
27and nothing unclean, and no one who practices abomination and lying, shall ever come into it, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life.

Purgatory is a place to be purged of our sins effects (since sins are forgiven through confession).
Since we are not really "clean" we cannot enter into heaven until this purging happens.

If purgatory were real, it would mean that we are saved by our own means and not by the sacrifice of Jesus.
Even Catholics do not believe this.

I'm kind of out of the loop with the CC right now, but I can say that some priests I know do not believe in purgatory ---
One priest I know does not believe in hell.

 

[GodsGrace]

The only one who uses the phrase 'kingdom of heaven' is (Matthew). For a reason. (Matthew) is the Gospel which presents Jesus Christ as the Jews Messiah. King of the Jews.

Thus the term 'kingdom of heaven' speaks to that kingdom prophesied in the Old Testament that has Israel as the leading nation of the world with Messiah ruling in Jerusalem.

The Kingdom of God encompasses all. Thus the Kingdom of Heaven is in the Kingdom of God. So, at times they can be used interchangeably. But that doesn't take away from the unique distinction of the Kingdom of Heaven.

Quantrill

I guess it could be googled.
This is not how I learn however....
Maybe there could be a thread on this....

 

[LuciusClay]

1 Corinthians 6:11 And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.


It says in the passage that they were washed, sanctified and justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. I made a longer answer of bible verses that I think might answer your question above. (my other answer might be invisible at the moment, it says it has to be approved by a moderator first. Hopefully it'll get passed and you can see it.)

There are two sides that need to be looked at, one of which youve covered in the verses referenced above. Our sins are wiped clean through Christs sacrifice along with belief in Him, and it is expected that none of us will be perfect throughout life even after. What you spoke about is regarding those who believe but more importantly obey. The bible states that willfully sinful lifestyles will render you incapable of entering heaven (homosexuality, promiscuity, adulterous behavior, drunkards, etc).

There is also no middle ground or purgatory spoken of in the bible as mentioned by someone else above.

It also needs to be acknowledged that while the bible promises that we are washed clean through belief, we are also called to repent. Alot of verses were given that describe this half of it but none regarding the multitude of warnings. Among other things it is mentioned that we need to work out our salvation with fear and trembling. In other words, we must be very cautious about the lives we lead. God is very generous and forgiving but He also is not to be trifled with and will not negotiate with us on what has clearly been condemned.

Many examples exist, but this is perhaps the most obvious to me. Hebrews 10.. 26For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries.

Long story short..drunkards will not be washed clean through belief in Christ unless they put that behind them. Same for the rest of the behavior on the no-no list. The word is very clear on the matter, so long as we consider the whole of it and not just parts.

EvolvingChristian Conversations like this are why you need to be in the word yourself. Its good to get input from a trusted source when something isnt clear, but this also needs to be followed by personal study to verify whats discussed and apply some thought. Its very easy to get mislead. When you step back from all the details the whole of it is pretty simple. We have a book that tells us how to get saved and what to stay away from. Where man tends to go wrong is when he thinks he can tweak the details to excuse him from dabbling in the darkness.

 

[EvolvingChristian]

Nobody wants to be an alcoholic. I know because I am one and I regret it all the time but I am too weak to stop drinking. I frequently ask Jesus to forgive me and to heal me of this vice. I believe that Jesus will accept me and heal me, if not in this life then, in the next.

 

[stovebolts]

Nobody wants to be an alcoholic. I know because I am one and I regret it all the time but I am too weak to stop drinking. I frequently ask Jesus to forgive me and to heal me of this vice. I believe that Jesus will accept me and heal me, if not in this life then, in the next.

I am very sorry to hear that you struggle with alcoholism. You know, each and every one of us has some sort of sin that we struggle with. My Dad was a "functioning" alcoholic into his 50's before he stopped. By functioning I mean he was able to hold down his job. He never drank on the job and he was a very dependable, hard working man. But that's about where it ended.
One day in his 50's he came home drunk (it was mid afternoon) and apparently he was being stupid (as usual) and one of his grand daughters replied, (Grampa, go to bed, your drunk again). And that's what it took to get him to stop drinking.

My vice was cigarettes. I smoked between 2 and 3 packs a day. It took seeing the disappointment in my daughters eyes when I couldn't throw a football or run 10 feet without being winded to catch it. Suddenly I realized how selfish I was and how I put cigarettes before my children.

I pray that God will send some event in your life that jars you so hard that you can find the strength to quit drinking. It's a horrible vice that can steal and rob you of your joy. But you already know that. I'm also going to pray that you learn how to let go of this vice and give it to God, putting your full trust that he will delivery you, and that He will be your strength in times of weakness to overcome this destructive vice.

God bless.

 

[GodsGrace]

There are two sides that need to be looked at, one of which youve covered in the verses referenced above. Our sins are wiped clean through Christs sacrifice along with belief in Him, and it is expected that none of us will be perfect throughout life even after. What you spoke about is regarding those who believe but more importantly obey. The bible states that willfully sinful lifestyles will render you incapable of entering heaven (homosexuality, promiscuity, adulterous behavior, drunkards, etc).

There is also no middle ground or purgatory spoken of in the bible as mentioned by someone else above.

It also needs to be acknowledged that while the bible promises that we are washed clean through belief, we are also called to repent. Alot of verses were given that describe this half of it but none regarding the multitude of warnings. Among other things it is mentioned that we need to work out our salvation with fear and trembling. In other words, we must be very cautious about the lives we lead. God is very generous and forgiving but He also is not to be trifled with and will not negotiate with us on what has clearly been condemned.

Many examples exist, but this is perhaps the most obvious to me. Hebrews 10.. 26For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries.

Long story short..drunkards will not be washed clean through belief in Christ unless they put that behind them. Same for the rest of the behavior on the no-no list. The word is very clear on the matter, so long as we consider the whole of it and not just parts.

EvolvingChristian Conversations like this are why you need to be in the word yourself. Its good to get input from a trusted source when something isnt clear, but this also needs to be followed by personal study to verify whats discussed and apply some thought. Its very easy to get mislead. When you step back from all the details the whole of it is pretty simple. We have a book that tells us how to get saved and what to stay away from. Where man tends to go wrong is when he thinks he can tweak the details to excuse him from dabbling in the darkness.

Hi LC
I agree with everything you've said above.

My only question to you is this:
Do you believe that God automatically removes all sinful desires
from our heart when we become born again?

What if we believe we are born again but are finding it difficult
to let go of something or other?
Does it mean we're not saved?

These are the questions someone having a problem might ask themselves
if they are Christian. God is full of mercy and we can depend on that mercy
IF we are sorry for our sins and are truly trying to avoid them.

 

[LuciusClay]

Nobody wants to be an alcoholic. I know because I am one and I regret it all the time but I am too weak to stop drinking. I frequently ask Jesus to forgive me and to heal me of this vice. I believe that Jesus will accept me and heal me, if not in this life then, in the next.

I dont enjoy saying this, but youre in very real danger of convincing yourself that everything will work out when in fact it will not. This is evident in the fact that youre struggling so hard with this. Your own conscience is crying out that something is not right while you try to find some way to rationalize staying in the pattern.

Jesus will accept and heal you, but this is contingent on getting away from the alcohol. When I was younger I had the same issue. It took coming to grips with the situation and making major changes in my life that finally enabled me to get clear. This will not happen as long as you try to fight to stay in it, or excuse it morally on the grounds that we all have sin in our life even after becoming christians. I had to leave an entire circle of friends and avoid alot of places I liked being in at the time to make this happen,among other things.

Lets look at the facts, because ultimately thats what were all held accountable to. Go back to the verses regarding the eventual fate of drunkards and the many warnings along the way of what alcohol does to us. Look again at passages such as hebrews 10, in addition to multiple other biblical commentary. Its very plainly spoken. Its not an unclear issue, you need to shake this..and you know it.

For what its worth, Id rather see you doing well than have to tell anyone theyre in a bad place but it would be dishonest (to say the least) to give you anything other than the truth.

 

[LuciusClay]

Hi LC
I agree with everything you've said above.

My only question to you is this:
Do you believe that God automatically removes all sinful desires
from our heart when we become born again?

What if we believe we are born again but are finding it difficult
to let go of something or other?
Does it mean we're not saved?

These are the questions someone having a problem might ask themselves
if they are Christian. God is full of mercy and we can depend on that mercy
IF we are sorry for our sins and are truly trying to avoid them.

I apologize in advance for speaking very directly, I just prefer to be honest and clear..no offense intended.

If you go back and read what I stated in the first couple of sentences I answered those questions. "Our sins are wiped clean through Christs sacrifice along with belief in Him, and it is expected that none of us will be perfect throughout life even after. What you spoke about is regarding those who believe but more importantly obey. The bible states that willfully sinful lifestyles will render you incapable of entering heaven (homosexuality, promiscuity, adulterous behavior, drunkards, etc)."

Thats as clear as I can make it. To elaborate, of course we all have sin in our lives. We cuss the guy out that cuts us off in traffic, lie to a boss about being 15 mins late, get rude with a waitress over some minor miscommunication with a food order,etc ..and then ask forgiveness when it hits us like a brick that we were dead wrong. Thats every single one of us. So no,Im not under the misconception that stepping up and confessing Christ as Lord and Savior removes all inclination to sin. But I do know that good intentions and remorse are sometimes not enough.

What youre injecting here is far different from deliberately and repeatedly engaging in certain behavior. So to that end,yes it may very well mean that you will not be saved. Thats why we shouldnt mince words and be as truthful with each other as we can. When we see someone going through bad times, we all hate to see it. Its hard to see somebody hurt and not want to offer some level of comfort or encouragement, and in fact we should. But above all we need to be honest enough to say hey man that aint right, this isnt good. To do otherwise abandons them to their fate without addressing the reality.

And its hard to bring that to someone for obvious reasons. Nobody wants to be critiqued and the first thoughts/comments from them usually amount to pointing out the flaws in you along with with how can you say this because of blahblah. Its a miserable position either way.

In the end it all amounts to one bad scenario for all involved. Bring to mind the worst battlefield you can imagine. People dead on all sides with a small group of survivors making their way off the field. One blind,another missing an arm,another his leg. Burns, shrapnel, the works. The only way everyone makes it is if theyre all patching each other up, even carrying some across the line. Thats all of us. But its up to us to do what we need to do along the way, as unpleasant as it can be at times.

 

[stovebolts]

Very solid words LuciusClay
Speaking truth in love doesn’t always mean giving a big hug. Your words are full of truth and love. Thank you for your zeal and courage to speak such words of life.

 

[Christ_empowered]

yeah...now that I stop and reflect a bit, I'm with LuciusClay on this one, I think. My personal struggle with pills and such stopped before Jesus made Himself known to me. I dunno. I'm oddly jealous of people who get saved, in their messes. I came to know Jesus a good 4ish years after doing -any- drugs, fun pills, etc., desperately seeking redemption and miracles. and so...

-sigh- nothing to add to what LuciusClay has eloquently and succinctly written about the situation. I'm not one for 'tough love' or 'the truth hurts' and all that worldly jibber jabber, but...

Speaking the Truth, in love is part of the Christian walk. so...blah blah blah...thanks again, LuciusClay .

 

[JLB]

Its hard to see somebody hurt and not want to offer some level of comfort or encouragement, and in fact we should. But above all we need to be honest enough to say hey man that aint right, this isnt good. To do otherwise abandons them to their fate without addressing the reality.

Well said bro.




JLB