Are Muscular women attractive?

[Claudya]

I feel it's better to focus on what is "inside" rather than what is on the outside. How people treat others, their willingness to learn, their emotional state, their core values, etc. are what makes a person who they are. The outside can easily be, and often is, covered with things that alter the appearance. It's much more difficult to cover up what's on the inside. People who "make up" what's on the outside often ignore what is on the inside, which shows where lie their values.

Your words are wise. I will certainly ponder them.

Yet I am wondering, what do you think about what Jethro Bodine said in this very thread about the outside of a person (in this case in particular the outside of a body builder woman) being a manifestation of the core inside values and those women's emotional state? Do you agree with that?
Because I'm thinking most of us are guilty of focussing on the "outside" not because we are so shallow, but because we want to know what sort of individual another person is. It is the inside we want to know. But while we can't easily look into someone's soul until we know them really well we make assumptions about their inside based on what we see on the outside.

 

[farouk]

I feel it's better to focus on what is "inside" rather than what is on the outside. How people treat others, their willingness to learn, their emotional state, their core values, etc. are what makes a person who they are. The outside can easily be, and often is, covered with things that alter the appearance. It's much more difficult to cover up what's on the inside. People who "make up" what's on the outside often ignore what is on the inside, which shows where lie their values.

Your words are wise. I will certainly ponder them.

Yet I am wondering, what do you think about what Jethro Bodine said in this very thread about the outside of a person (in this case in particular the outside of a body builder woman) being a manifestation of the core inside values and those women's emotional state? Do you agree with that?
Because I'm thinking most of us are guilty of focussing on the "outside" not because we are so shallow, but because we want to know what sort of individual another person is. It is the inside we want to know. But while we can't easily look into someone's soul until we know them really well we make assumptions about their inside based on what we see on the outside.

Hi [MENTION=91320]Claudya[/MENTION]: I think he has also repeatedly made similar comments about women who happen to have tattoos. I would probably be in some measure of theological agreement with Jethro Bodine in some ways. It's hard for me to grasp the very conservative - and superficial - notion that the outside demonstrates what is supposedly on the inside.

 

[ardchoille]

I feel it's better to focus on what is "inside" rather than what is on the outside. How people treat others, their willingness to learn, their emotional state, their core values, etc. are what makes a person who they are. The outside can easily be, and often is, covered with things that alter the appearance. It's much more difficult to cover up what's on the inside. People who "make up" what's on the outside often ignore what is on the inside, which shows where lie their values.

Your words are wise. I will certainly ponder them.

Yet I am wondering, what do you think about what Jethro Bodine said in this very thread about the outside of a person (in this case in particular the outside of a body builder woman) being a manifestation of the core inside values and those women's emotional state? Do you agree with that?
Because I'm thinking most of us are guilty of focussing on the "outside" not because we are so shallow, but because we want to know what sort of individual another person is. It is the inside we want to know. But while we can't easily look into someone's soul until we know them really well we make assumptions about their inside based on what we see on the outside.

The core values of a person, whether good or bad, will ultimately influence the physical appearance. In any relationship we must keep in mind that both parties "bring something to the table". That baggage, for lack of a better word, will ultimately influence us if we spend enough time with that person. The real question is whether or not we are able and willing to deal with said baggage. One of the things we can glean from the outward appearance of a person is where they chose to devote their resources. Someone who devotes what we feel is too much time and effort to their outward appearance may not be equipped to handle a deep and healthy relationship because they don't devote proper resources to such things. We also need to remember that many people are products of their surroundings, so it's not fair to blame a person who doesn't devote resources to what is happening on the inside. Compassion and understanding must be vital parts of our daily life.

 

[Claudya]

I'm athletic, and while I go to the gym in part to look good, it's mostly to fight off this thing called age that wears you out and tires you out. It's true that a body in motion stays in motion. But being athletic can be addictive. Simply put, it feels good to push your body, and it feels good to feel good. A side result is that one becomes muscular. My son, who is 14 and has been a wrestler since he's been 5 is extremely muscular. Not only does he have density, but he is cut and ripped like most men only dream about. He didn't set out to get muscular, but it's what his lifestyle rewarded him with. In other words, he didn't work that hard to get the muscles he has, but they were the result of his hard work in trying to achieve something he enjoys, and that's competitive wrestling.

Yep I totally agree with that. I've just returned from a 5 kilometer run that I did for no other reason but because I enjoy running. I want to run (and survive ) a marathon some time just for the sake of the personal challenge, and I can see how I would try to beat a triathlon some day, too. Also I've been practising Karate for half of my life and just started practising Kendo (another Japanese martial art. It's some sort of sword fighting) this year, also I do occassionally play basket ball and volley ball and just discovered that rock climbing is awesome, but also quite a test on your muscles' stamina. All of that for the same motivation stovebolts mentioned: health benefits, trying to counter the aging, trying to prevent weight gain, challenge and ambition to get better, competition.

Stovebolts, you are right being athletic is addictive - in a very good way. It's awesome to feel your own body, its strength, its limits, its desire to move and to get stronger, your muscles, your lungs, your heart, and the power of life itself pulsing through you.
It's also a fundamentally human thing to find challenges (or opponents), face them, beat them and be rewarded with triumph and joy. It may sound like a traditionally masculine thing, but it is not. Women naturally feel the same way, too.

Thank you, Stove, for your input. And I'm not just saying this because your posting helps my own argumentation, but because you seem to have a balanced view here, and balance gets lost too easily in debates.
Also, I remember a while ago you were telling us about your son struggeling to get into the federal wrestling league. His difficulties and the seemingly unfair and undeserved losses he had to swallow were a challenge to your own faith in God. So I've been wondering how your son is doing now?

 

[Claudya]

It's hard for me to grasp the very conservative - and superficial - notion that the outside demonstrates what is supposedly on the inside.

Aye, it's a superficial notion, but unfortunately I have to disagree about it being a conservative notion. We "liberals" and "progressives" often fall for the same sort of thinking and quick judgement, too. At least I do. :-( So before someone goes political let's just agree that sadly it's human nature.

 

[farouk]

It's hard for me to grasp the very conservative - and superficial - notion that the outside demonstrates what is supposedly on the inside.

Aye, it's a superficial notion, but unfortunately I have to disagree about it being a conservative notion. We "liberals" and "progressives" often fall for the same sort of thinking and quick judgement, too. At least I do. :-( So before someone goes political let's just agree that sadly it's human nature.

Hi [MENTION=91320]Claudya[/MENTION]: By 'conservative' I guess I simply meant that often legalistic strictures come from those of a conservative mindset. However, nothing I say should imply not being willing to hear what Jethro Bodine means, nor do I wish to prejudge his welcome views.

 

[Claudya]

Now, don't attack me if you feel tempted to do that. Just share your opinion, just as I have, and let's leave it at that.

Hey why did you fear I would attack you? I'm suspecting I come across waaaaay more aggressive than I actually am. :colorsmile
I'll try to work on that. Meanwhile, please know that for me debating is just some messed up way of trying to bond with people. It's probably not working very well though.

On topic, we will probably never agree on this issue, because our basic understanding of what human nature is, what the Bible is and what gender roles should be like is too different. Digging up those differences would be too much for this thread and possibly a waste of time, unless you enjoy debating for the sake of debating, but it sounds like you don't.

Anyway, thank you very much for answering my question and explaining your point of view. Would you mind if I ask a few more questions? No aggression intended, just trying to understand.

Now you know this goes waaaaay beyond just fitness.
IMO, much of this is motivated by pride and arrogance, and woman's angry resentment of man's God given role as head. Underneath it all it's really nothing more than rebellion against the what God established . That's the connection to Christianity.

Okay I can see how that would be a turn off for men with strong traditional christian values.
Is headship determined through physical strength? Would a woman having a tenure position at a university in some traditionally masculine field of science, let's say theoretical physics, be rebelling against men's headship, too (and hence be a bad woman for a christian man to marry, too?)... or any woman that does something we would typically think to be a "male" thing? Just asking because I was wondering how body building is a sign of rebellion, what element of it makes it rebellious. Independence and strength can be obtained in other ways than physical muscular strength. In our society physical strength is actually rather irrelevant for a person's social status and independence.
Also you seem to attribute the motivation for women to do body building to her perceived role in relation to men. Now my next question will probably sound like an attack disguised as a question, but it really isn't an attack. I've reworded it three times already, but it still sounds like an attack... oh well... Can you imagine women do things that are completely unrelated to men? Or is it, in your experience/ convicition, female nature that all we do has something to do with our relationship towards men? In other words, can you imagine that some women may do body building with no feminist/ rebellious motivation whatsoever?

 

[farouk]

Would a woman having a tenure position at a university in some traditionally masculine field of science, let's say theoretical physics, be rebelling against men's headship, too (and hence be a bad woman for a christian man to marry, too?)... or any woman that does something we would typically think to be a "male" thing?

[MENTION=91320]Claudya[/MENTION]: Actually I think that very few people with a Biblically conservative theological viewpoint would argue this way. At least, I've not met many.

Sounds like you are really into healthy activity!

 

[King James]

I think this topic can fall within biblical laws. In the bible, it says, men should dress and act like men, and have short hair. Women should dress and act like woman, and have long hair. The point is that woman with bulging muscles is more the trait of a male than a female. Nothing wrong with women being fit and healthy. If our bodies are our temples then we should all be fit and healthy. Once a woman has to wonder if they are going over that line, they are. It is the same for men or women, as far as knowing if you are doing the right thing in general. If you have to question your decision, then it's wrong.

 

[farouk]

People who "make up" what's on the outside often ignore what is on the inside, which shows where lie their values.

Yes, and they miss out on a lot. The deeper you dig, the more gold can be found.

You mean, deeper in the muscles?

 

[ardchoille]

People who "make up" what's on the outside often ignore what is on the inside, which shows where lie their values.

Yes, and they miss out on a lot. The deeper you dig, the more gold can be found.

Agreed.

People who "make up" what's on the outside often ignore what is on the inside, which shows where lie their values.

Yes, and they miss out on a lot. The deeper you dig, the more gold can be found.

You mean, deeper in the muscles?

No, he meant digging deeper with regard to what's on the inside.

 

[farouk]

Agreed.

People who "make up" what's on the outside often ignore what is on the inside, which shows where lie their values.

Yes, and they miss out on a lot. The deeper you dig, the more gold can be found.

You mean, deeper in the muscles?

No, he meant digging deeper with regard to what's on the inside.

Like, metaphorically and psychologically rather than in muscularity or physique.

 

[farouk]

You mean, deeper in the muscles?

No, within the heart brother.

No, he meant digging deeper with regard to what's on the inside.

Exactly.

So:.... the question of whether women with muscles are attractive is really a misnomer in the first place!

(This is what I happened to think all along...)

 

[farouk]

So:.... the question of whether women with muscles are attractive is really a misnomer in the first place!

Well the heart is a muscle technically speaking, lol. I do love a girl with a strong heart.

Metaphorically, yes...

 

[YosefHayim]

Well sometimes I need a deep neck massage. Hmm....

 

[Claudya]

Boy, me too. But God knew that so sent us a help meet just for such things. I love Him for that.

Hrm I always thought that God made men more muscular because the true purpose of a male's life is to give his female master, usually refered to as "wife" or "girlfriend", neck massages on a daily basis. That's also why their hands are bigger. Deep inside we all know that's why man was created.

 

[Mike S]

Boy, me too. But God knew that so sent us a help meet just for such things. I love Him for that.

Hrm I always thought that God made men more muscular because the true purpose of a male's life is to give his female master, usually refered to as "wife" or "girlfriend", neck massages on a daily basis. That's also why their hands are bigger. Deep inside we all know that's why man was created.

Or, foot massage. Seems to be just about the second best thing to do for her.

 

[Claudya]

Hey you can't use four letter words on this board. Try'na get a infraction?

I seem to lack the dirty imagination to figure out what four letter word you'd insert there. You should be ashamed of yourself.

Seriously though, giving her a massage is the next best thing to getting one. Nothing beats a good massage. Nothing. Knowing this, to be able to give this...to make her feel that good...passes on a lot of positive energy. Knowing that is what brought me a lot of personal satisfaction and made it fun for me. I used to give my ex-wife about 3-4 massages a week, and rubbed her feet for her almost everyday when she came in from work. After being on your feet all day a good 5-10 minute foot massage is like heaven almost.

Dammit Edward. Now I need a cold shower.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

People who "make up" what's on the outside often ignore what is on the inside, which shows where lie their values.

Exactly what I'm driving at.

We often dress up the outside to mask or compensate for what's inside. How radical and extreme the mask is seems to be directly proportional to the nature and depth of what it is inside of us that we want to mask or compensate for.

It only reasons that what we see made up on the outside can be a good indicator of what is trying to be covered up or compensated for on the outside. We get a pretty good indicator of a person's values by what's going on on the outside.

 

[ardchoille]

People who "make up" what's on the outside often ignore what is on the inside, which shows where lie their values.

Exactly what I'm driving at.

We often dress up the outside to mask or compensate for what's inside. How radical and extreme the mask is seems to be directly proportional to the nature and depth of what it is inside of us that we want to mask or compensate for.

It only reasons that what we see made up on the outside can be a good indicator of what is trying to be covered up or compensated for on the outside. We get a pretty good indicator of a person's values by what's going on on the outside.

Exactly.