Husband submitting to wife-is it OK?

[Carry_Your_Name]

It's okay to have a fantasy that your wife live according to the fruit of the Spirit. Just as she can fantasize that, perhaps, her husband would too.

If you find a good wife, you find a good wife. If you don't, you don't. That's just life.

Thanks, but I'm neither a dreamer nor an ideologue, neither should any faithful believer who has submitted to God - instead of any societal norm, peer pressure or selfish desire.

It is entirely possible to have a godly relationship with a woman, and have a relationship with God, too. In fact, one's relationship with God is what makes it possible to do that. But Paul warned that it divides our attention, but he made it crystal clear that we are not sinning if we do that. Paul does not condemn marriage. He condemns prohibiting people to marry. But he does encourage believers to stay single...if they have been gifted by God to do so.

Whatever you want, the choice is not yours, but the woman's, or her family's, in some culture. In the mating market, the lady gets to be selective, man proposes, woman disposes, that's why in a realistic sense, a "good woman" is God's giving, not yours, whether you're supposedly endowed with that gift of singleness or not.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

They were mad that they were not allowed to diverse their wife? They wanted to kick her to the curb?

They were disappointed that the opportunity was not available to them to divorce their wives. The implication being, of course, that they are required to endure whatever difficulty it is that comes up in marriage, no matter how difficult the challenge, and not take the convenient escape of divorce. A hard teaching that Jesus said one who should accept, if they can accept it.

12The one who can accept this should accept it.” Matthew 19:12

As we can see, many in the church today cannot accept this.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

No, it's about what God wants. It's not OK to marry in a distressful time, that's Paul's advice...

It's okay to get married if that's what you wish to do:

36However, if someone thinks he is acting inappropriately toward his betrothed, and if she is beyond her youth and they ought to marry,d let him do as he wishes; he is not sinning; they should get married. 1 Corinthians 7:36

It's your choice. But it's clear the decision to marry that you have every freedom to make is to be made in light of Paul's counsel about what is better.

...also Lord Jesus's teaching - "woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days!"

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Jesus did not teach the value of singleness. The disciples are the ones who came to the conclusion that, if you can't divorce, it's better to not marry, not Jesus.

Yes he did, Matt. 19:11-12.

Show me in Matthew 19:6-12 where Jesus asserts the value of singleness. I see him saying to not divorce. That's hardly him asserting the value of singleness:

6So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate.”

7“Why then,” they asked, “did Moses order a man to give his wife a certificate of divorce and send her away?c”

8Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because of your hardness of heart. But it was not this way from the beginning. 9Now I tell you that whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.d”

10His disciples said to Him, “If this is the case between a man and his wife, it is better not to marry.”

11“Not everyone can accept this word,” He replied, “but only those to whom it has been given. 12For there are eunuchs who were born that way; others were made that way by men; and still others live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it.” Matthew 19:6-12

In context, Jesus is asserting the value of marriage over divorce ("what God has joined together") and remarriage ("and marries another commits adultery"). There's nothing there from Jesus about seeking to remain single as an unmarried person, or seeking seeking singleness after you're married.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Show me in Matthew 19:6-12 where Jesus asserts the value of singleness. I see him saying to not divorce. That's hardly him asserting the value of singleness:

Singles, especially those who give up marriage for the sake of the kingdom, are gifted and valued, that speaks truth of all the saints in history who took a sacred vow of celibacy. If divorce is forbidden, never getting married in the first place is a very reasonable conclusion.

In context, Jesus is asserting the value of marriage over divorce ("what God has joined together") and remarriage ("and marries another commits adultery"). There's nothing there from Jesus about seeking to remain single as an unmarried person, or seeking seeking singleness after you're married.

This is all based on the presumption that God joins you and a godly woman together. When God's never joined you with anybody, none of these is relevant. In the ancient time, most marriages are arranged, so couples were joined by God through their elders; that no longer holds true in modern time, therefore neither the value of marriage or the value of divorce is relevant when "it's better not to marry."

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

It's your choice. But it's clear the decision to marry that you have every freedom to make is to be made in light of Paul's counsel about what is better.

No it's not, I've explained it's the woman's choice, not the man's.

"Perhaps the woman will not be willing to follow me to this land. Must I take your son back to the land from which you came?” ... "if the woman is not willing to follow you, then you will be released from this oath; only do not take my son back there.” (Gen. 24:5-8)

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

It's your choice. But it's clear the decision to marry that you have every freedom to make is to be made in light of Paul's counsel about what is better.

Nope, the real choice is, when God has never blessed you with marriage despite your fervent prayers and sincere wishes, you're destined to stay single, will you still worship God or abandon him?

 

[Elijah7777]

9Now I tell you that whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.d”

So does this mean that it is ok to divorce if you are willing to be celebrate the rest of your life? Not much of a chance that is going to happen. So you can divorce your wife and then wait. Sooner or later she will find someone else, commit "adultery" and then you are free to remarry?

I do know a women who's husband ran off and left her. She did remain true to him and did not ever get involved with anyone else.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

9Now I tell you that whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.d”

So does this mean that it is ok to divorce if you are willing to be celebrate the rest of your life?

No.

32...everyone divorcing his wife, except on account of sexual immorality, causes her to commit adultery. And whoever shall marry her who has been divorced commits adultery. Matthew 5:32

 

[Jethro Bodine]

So you can divorce your wife and then wait. Sooner or later she will find someone else, commit "adultery" and then you are free to remarry?

As the verse I just posted shows, by divorcing her you caused her to commit adultery. So I wouldn't take much comfort in knowing that you can remarry by causing your (ex)wife to commit adultery.

 

[Elijah7777]

As the verse I just posted shows, by divorcing her you caused her to commit adultery. So I wouldn't take much comfort in knowing that you can remarry by causing your (ex)wife to commit adultery.

It seems like the solution would to have never married but then my son would not have been born. How could it be God's plan for him to be born if it was not God's plan for me to get married to His mom?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

It seems like the solution would to have never married but then my son would not have been born.

No, the solution would have been to not divorce. Read Jesus' counsel in Matthew 19. The hard teaching that we are to accept, but not everyone is able to, is that married couples are to stay married.

6...what God has joined together, let man not separate.”
9...whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.d”
11“Not everyone can accept this word,” He replied, “but only those to whom it has been given.
12The one who can accept this should accept it.” Matthew 19:6,9,11-12

How could it be God's plan for him to be born if it was not God's plan for me to get married to His mom?

God allows our sin, he doesn't author it. But God is gracious. He brings good out of the sin he has allowed us to enter into. Our struggles are not the only thing that God uses to conform us to the image of his Son.

28...God works all things together for the good of those who love Him, who are called according to His purpose. 29For those God foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son Romans 8:28-29

His kindness and grace in the midst of our sin and struggle do that too.

4...the kindness of God leads you to repentance... Romans 2:4

 

[Elijah7777]

No, the solution would have been to not divorce.

That was not my choice. I came home from working another 12-hour day and all I found was a note on the coffee table telling me she left. Our son was 3 years old and committed the crime of climbing out of the play pen. She brought him back in a week and asked if I would raise him, which I did as a single parent for 12 years. I did not remarry for 17 years because I did not want my son to have to deal with that. I wanted nothing more than to put that marriage back together again but she was not interested.

 

[Elijah7777]

God allows our sin, he doesn't author it.

I was not a Christian, I did not know God at the time. I had dreams about my wife before I met her so I took that as a sign that I was to marry her. Actually just the opposite was true. The dream was a warning NOT to marry her. My life would have been so much better if I had gotten saved sooner. But then my son would not have been born. So I guess as you say God caused good to come out of all of that. His permissive will even if that was not His plan and purpose for me and my life.