Husband submitting to wife-is it OK?

[Carry_Your_Name]

Without marriage, there would not be anyone to devote to anything. We would go extinct as a species.

This is doom and gloom, you have no faith in God's word of "filling the earth". Marriage is for unbelievers and weak believers who "lack self control". For the mature and faithful Christians, our mission is not making babies, but DISCIPLES. Church growths relies not on natural regeneration within the community like the Amish or the Mormons, but assimilating others outside the community. We're tasked to herald spiritual births, not natural births. Haven't you read God's covenant to Abraham, that his descendants will be as numerous as the sands of the sea and stars in the sky? If you're plagued with anxiety of "extinction as a species, if you think we must accomplish that by ourselves, we must wrought it in our own hands, you're making the same mistake Abraham was making by going to Hagar.

 

[Elijah7777]

you're making the same mistake Abraham was making by going to Hagar.

It was Sarah's idea to give him Hagar. Genesis 16:1–4 Today Sarah is the Matriarch for 15–16 million. Hagar is the Matriarch for 200 million people.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

It was Sarah's idea to give him Hagar. Genesis 16:1–4 Today Sarah is the Matriarch for 15–16 million. Hagar is the Matriarch for 200 million people.

It was Abraham's fault to have caved in.

 

[Marilyn C]

The President of France is 26 years younger than his wife.

I am 7 years older than my husband, and no difficulty.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

The President of France is 26 years younger than his wife.

19...money is the answer for everything. Ecclesiastes 10:19

I am 7 years older than my husband, and no difficulty.

Personally, I don't see a seven year age difference to be significant enough to cause problems. Unless there is something specific in the relationship that could become a problem under those circumstances.

 

[Elijah7777]

19...money is the answer for everything. Ecclesiastes 10:19

I do not think Solomon had 700 wives because of his good looks and wonderful personality. He had lots of friends and lots of wives because he could afford to feed them. We can have lots of friends also if we feed them pizza and thrown them a party.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

It was Abraham's fault to have caved in.

Abraham did not know at that time that the promise was to come through Sarah. He was just zealously trying to fulfill the promise of God in the expected and natural way that a promise like that would be fulfilled. We are to think spiritually, not naturally, concerning his uneducated effort to do that.

22For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the slave woman and the other by the free woman.b 23His son by the slave woman was born according to the flesh Galatians 4:22-23

In context, Ishmael represents the son born when a person hears the promise of God about future inheritance and seeks to lay hold of the promise according to the flesh, meaning via the fleshly effort of the law. I don't think the adventures of Abraham with Hagar and Sarah was meant to be a precautionary tale about earthly marriage.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Marriage is for unbelievers and weak believers who "lack self control".

While I'm not particularly fond of marriage anymore ("you made us late...no, you made us late"), the institution of marriage itself is good:

22He who finds a wife finds a good thing and obtains favor from the LORD. Proverbs 18:22

It takes two good people to make a good marriage and realize the good God intended for marriage.

 

[Elijah7777]

Abraham had two sons, one by the slave woman and the other by the free woman

But it is the slave women who raise the sons. We see this in Gone with the Wind, where her sister is actually her slave and very neurotic. Hagar tried to run away but the angel of the Lord told her she had to go back.

Genesis 16:9 – Then the angel of the Lord told her, “Go back to your mistress and submit to her.” Genesis 16:10 – The angel added, “I will increase your descendants so much that they will be too numerous to count.”

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

I don't think the adventures of Abraham with Hagar and Sarah was meant to be a precautionary tale about earthly marriage.

That's because the original comment in post #102 was about concerns of population decline, not marriage itself.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

While I'm not particularly fond of marriage anymore ("you made us late...no, you made us late"), the institution of marriage itself is good:

It was Paul's advice in 1 Cor. 7:2, take it or leave it.

22He who finds a wife finds a good thing and obtains favor from the LORD. Proverbs 18:22

It takes two good people to make a good marriage and realize the good God intended for marriage.

Marriage is a social institution, how good it is depends on how good the couple is, this institution itself won't magically fix your problems. If you finds a Delilah or a Jezebel, is that still a good thing and a favor of God? If you put marriage before God and use God to pursue marriage, you'll end up with neither. One pastor once said that it's far better to be single longing for married life than being married and long for single life.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

If you finds a Delilah or a Jezebel, is that still a good thing and a favor of God?

I was careful to say the institution of marriage itself is good. A wife is good thing if she is a good wife. If she is bad that doesn't make marriage bad, it makes your marriage bad.

Remember, the same person who said "a man who finds a wife finds a good thing" also spoke about the "constant dripping on a rainy day" (Proverbs 27:15).

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Marriage is a social institution...

...ordained by God. Don't forget that.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

It was Paul's advice in 1 Cor. 7:2, take it or leave it.

That's right. Everyone is free to take it or leave it. Paul was not commanding believers not to marry. That would contradict his own criticism of those who "forbid people to marry" (1 Timothy 4:3). But I'm with Paul. If you can handle it, don't marry. But you haven't sinned if you do (1 Corinthians 7:8-9,28). For "each man has his own gift from God; one has this gift, another has that." (1 Corinthians 7:7).

 

[Jethro Bodine]

But it is the slave women who raise the sons. We see this in Gone with the Wind, where her sister is actually her slave and very neurotic. Hagar tried to run away but the angel of the Lord told her she had to go back.

Genesis 16:9 – Then the angel of the Lord told her, “Go back to your mistress and submit to her.” Genesis 16:10 – The angel added, “I will increase your descendants so much that they will be too numerous to count.”

Remember, the law, which Hagar represents, was our guardian to lead us to Christ (Galatians 3:24).

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

...ordained by God. Don't forget that.

... practiced by flawed human beings. Don't forget that.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

I was careful to say the institution of marriage itself is good. A wife is good thing if she is a good wife. If she is bad that doesn't make marriage bad, it makes your marriage bad.

Remember, the same person who said "a man who finds a wife finds a good thing" also spoke about the "constant dripping on a rainy day" (Proverbs 27:15).

How "good" is good for you? Qualified according to what? Prov. 31? What if such a "good wife" only exists in your fantasy? Are you gonna spend your whole life and devote your whole being to find her? Or surrender to God and develop a relationship with Him? Which one is your teleological pursuit? Yes, the institution of marriage is good, but the idolatry of marriage is bad, and that's what both the church and the secular culture have been selling.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

For "each man has his own gift from God; one has this gift, another has that." (1 Corinthians 7:7).

Self control, though, is a spiritual fruit, not one of such gifts. It's not a "booster shot" for a few selected saints or clergymen to resist sexual temptation and keep them out of the mating market. In St. Augustine's view, all Christians are responsible to say no to sexual immorality, and as recipients of God's grace and his indwelling spirit, all Christians are able to say no to sexual immorality, this is held true to both the married and the unmarried, marriage is not merely a license for sex, nor a fix for any form of sex addiction.

 

[Elijah7777]

Remember, the law, which Hagar represents, was our guardian to lead us to Christ (Galatians 3:24).

Paul and David try to explain the Law to people but they do not seem to want to understand.