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Are we allowed to debate the holocaust?

Hammer said:
Okay. Was there a non-Nazi presence in these camps, such as the Red Cross? How many Jews does the Red Cross estimate were executed, based on their observations?

Why not Nazi German sources? Didn't they keep records? I thought we had "Written documents—hundreds of thousands of letters, memos, blueprints, orders, bills, speeches, articles, memoirs, and confessions." - The wikipedia entry on Holocaust Denial
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See my post no. 29, above. Holocaust denial is a very serious matter.
 
Strangelove said:
"there were no extermination camps on German soil."

- "Nazi hunter" Simon Wiesenthal, Letters in Books & Bookmen (London), April 1975, p. 5, and in The Stars and Stripes (European edition), Jan. 24, 1993, p. 14. Wiesenthal's 1993 Stars and Stripes letter is reprinted in facsimile in The Journal of Historical Review, May-June 1993, p. 10.


"I was in Dachau for 17 months after the war, as a U.S. War Department Attorney, and can state that there was no gas chamber at Dachau. What was shown to visitors and sightseers there and erroneously described as a gas chamber was a crematory. Nor was there a gas chamber in any of the other concentration camps in Germany. We were told that there was a gas chamber at Auschwitz; but since that was in the Russian zone of occupation, we were not permitted to investigate since the Russians would not allow it. From what I was able to determine during six postwar years in Germany and Austria, there were a number of Jews killed, but the figure of a million was certainly never reached. I interviewed thousands of Jews, former inmates of concentration camps in Germany and Austria, and consider myself as well qualified as any man on this subject. "

- Stephen F Pinter, lawyer for the United States War Department in the occupation forces in Germany and Austria for six years after the war, statement in Catholic magazine 'Our Sunday Visitor', June 14, 1959.

The claims of Dachau, Buchenwald etc being extermination camps have been completely dropped by mainstream holocaust historians/scholars.

It helps to enter a debate with a modicum of humility.
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Still haven't answered the request to cite your sources...and although "technically" Buchenwald, Sachsenhausen, Bergen-Belsen, etc were not referred to as "extermination camps" by the NAZI regime...those who survived interment in those places would be hard pressed to tell the difference. Simply calling them by another name in no way changed the functionality of these camps...simply the method used...

Kind of along the same lines as referring to gas chambers as "showers" or "delousing stations"...doesn't really matter what they're called...only what they are designed to accomplish.

What does matter is the official NAZI policy toward the Jews and other "undesirables", as well as the various means of carrying out such policy e.g. "The final solution" to the "Jewish problem".
 
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mcgyver said:
Still haven't answered the request to cite your sources...
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Heh? The citations are right there in black bold.

mcgyver said:
and although "technically" Buchenwald, Sachsenhausen, Bergen-Belsen, etc were not "extermination camps"...those who survived interment in those places would be hard pressed to tell the difference. Simply calling them by another name in no way changed the functionality of these camps...simply the method used...
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So, what was the method used then?

mcgyver said:
Kind of along the same lines as referring to gas chambers as "showers" or "delousing stations"...doesn't really matter what they're called...only what they are designed to accomplish.
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So if a shower room looks and acts and works like a shower room....its designed to be a gas chamber?

mcgyver said:
What does matter is the official NAZI policy toward the Jews and other "undesirables", as well as the various means of carrying out such policy e.g. "The final solution" to the "Jewish problem".
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I agree. Official nazi policy matters.

Do you have any official nazi documentation that confirms the "final solution" was a programme of extermination?
 
I am reminded of a friend of mine that spends a little too much time at the gym. Whenever we all get together he inevitably rips his shirt off and wants to arm wrestle. He knows he's going to win, because he's been training at it for years.

Or my son wanting to debate the effectiveness of one Magic the Gathering card over another. I'd be in over my head.

Clearly the OP is a debater and has a lot of information to cement his point of view. You've spent countless hours doing a ton of research, good on ya. For what? For this? Really? I'm more interested in why you gathered your data, than where it came from.

Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk 2
 
farouk said:
The onus is not on people to prove Holocaust deniers wrong.

The Holocaust is a proven fact, with a lot of evidence.
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Is there any evidence other than witness testimony and "confessions"?
 
Bfnaught said:
I am reminded of a friend of mine that spends a little too much time at the gym. Whenever we all get together he inevitably rips his shirt off and wants to arm wrestle. He knows he's going to win, because he's been training at it for years.

Or my son wanting to debate the effectiveness of one Magic the Gathering card over another. I'd be in over my head.

Clearly the OP is a debater and has a lot of information to cement his point of view. You've spent countless hours doing a ton of research, good on ya. For what? For this? Really? I'm more interested in why you gathered your data, than where it came from.
Click to expand...

Dishonest Debating Tactics:

Evading any talk of facts, evidence, logic
Questioning motives
Innuendo/Insinuation
 
Strangelove said:
Is there any evidence other than witness testimony and "confessions"?
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You mean aside from the video that General Patton ordered to be taken because he expected someone might come along and question the validity of these events?
 
The facilities, such as Auschwitz, and the bodies of some of the victims in mass graves, for starters.
 
farouk said:
See my post 29, re sources.

Holocaust denial is a huge no-no.
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+

Dishonest Debating Tactics:

False premise (saying that a book or a video or a website proves something without actually quoting from the source)

Argument from Intimidation.

Political correctness
 
Knotical said:
The facilities, such as Auschwitz, and the bodies of some of the victims in mass graves, for starters.
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How do you know what the bodies in mass graves are victims of?

If you walk into a room and see a dead body, how do you know its the victim of a gassing?
 
So, we have finally discovered the actual reason for this thread. It is an avenue for the OP to criticize everyone else on their debating techniques.

Good to know.:chin
 
Strangelove said:
Dishonest Debating Tactics:

Evading any talk of facts, evidence, logic
Questioning motives
Innuendo/Insinuation
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Please don't mistake me for a debater. I'm clearly under prepared for it. Your arguments may be 100% true. I neither know, nor care. Just wondering why. Please don't let my inquiry muddle your points. But if you would like to address why or what difference affirmation of you opinion would make to the world, I am all ears. Or, all eye balls if you will.

Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk 2
 
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