Are Women Moral Leaders?

[ugmug]

Are Women Moral Leaders?


Can Women ever be 'moral leaders'! Consider that in the story of Sodom and Gomorrah God sent messengers to warn the 'righteous' to flee all immorality but those who were enjoying and profiting from the immorality attacked the messengers instead.


Today we have the same scenario where those who are immoral attack anyone who attempts to flee immorality. Additionally, the story of Sodom and Gomorrah highlights that fact whenever a woman finds the courage to flee the immorality (hint : Lot's wife) she will 'look back' unable to forfeit the pleasures of immorality for she is unwilling to condemn immoral acts like homosexuality.

Does this fact tell us that God is highlighting the frailty of a flesh based morality since a woman was created from the flesh of Adam and therefore is unable to separate her moral judgments from her fleshly desires and emotions?


The essential point is Flee immorality and NEVER look back!



1 Corinthians 6:18
New International Version (NIV)

18 Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a person commits are outside the body, but whoever sins sexually, sins against their own body.



God Bless

note:


Carefully observe that only Lot (the one righteous man remaining in Sodom and Gomorrah) recognized that the messengers were sent by God! All the immoral inhabitants recognized the messengers as only a means to indulge their lustful pleasures.

 

[Claudya]

Additionally, the story of Sodom and Gomorrah highlights that fact whenever a woman finds the courage to flee the immorality (hint : Lot's wife) she will 'look back' unable to forfeit the pleasures of immorality for she is unwilling to condemn immoral acts like homosexuality.

The behaviour of one person represents half of humankind?

Lot himself wasn't a moral role model, and neither were his daughters. They all acted vile. Lot thought so little of women that he would have given his daughters to the crowd to get raped. His daughters, in turn, raped their father to get pregnant later. The wife and mother of the family wasn't that much worse morally than the rest of the family.

But besides that she wasn't particularly immoral compared to her family I'm much more shocked about your reasoning that one woman in the Bible would be proof for all womankind. You know how many men are discarded by God due to their failure in being moral?

Does this fact tell us that God is highlighting the frailty of a flesh based morality since a woman was created from the flesh of Adam and therefore is unable to separate her moral judgments from her fleshly desires and emotions?

Seriously, this is offensive. How many women have you met in your life? Because you sound like someone who knows women only from stereotypes.

 

[evenifigoalone]

What precisely is your conclusion here? Your thread starts with a question, but what you're posting doesn't seem to have to do much with the subject that the title implies. You never answer the question in the title, either. What's the intended reasoning here?

I personally don't believe there is any difference between men and women that matter--key words being "that matter". I haven't done a lot of research on this, but from I've been told and seen from discussion on this elsewhere, men and women do think a bit differently--basically our brains tend to process emotion as part of the thinking process. But that is a bad thing how? I think God must have designed it that way for a functional reason and purpose. (While yes, I do believe in gender roles to some extent in that men are suited to some tasks that women generally are not and visa-avers, I'm also very against the idea that women should do nothing but stay at home and keep house while the men work. Women have proven that they are very capable of doing good work in many fields and careers.)

Getting back to scripture, I think possibly you are missing that Scripture is hardly lacking in positive examples of women. You seem to be pulling your examples from only one situation, really.
Furthermore, I don't see a real Scriptural basis for saying that all women are controlled by sinful desires and emotions any more than men are. It's a human nature thing.
Now there are some differences in the history related in the Bible that reflect the culture at the time and not necessarily advocated by the Bible--and women were treated a bit differently in that culture.

 

[Chopper]

I have moved this thread to Apologetics & Theology because the Title: Are Women Moral Leaders is an explosive title. Already there is disapproval and the start of debate which is not allowed in this Forum.

 

[evenifigoalone]

I have moved this thread to Apologetics & Theology because the Title: Are Women Moral Leaders is an explosive title. Already there is disapproval and the start of debate which is not allowed in this Forum.

Well I had myself a brain derp, didn't I? I'll make a note of what forum this is in next time.

 

[TOG]

Additionally, the story of Sodom and Gomorrah highlights that fact whenever a woman finds the courage to flee the immorality (hint : Lot's wife) she will 'look back' unable to forfeit the pleasures of immorality for she is unwilling to condemn immoral acts like homosexuality.

Some would consider that statement to be trolling. But besides that, it's totally incorrect. While there are, according to the Bible, different roles for men and women, I haven't come across anything, either in the Bible or in my personal experience, that would indicate that women are morally weaker than men. There are stories in the Bible about morally weak men also. King David showed moral weakness when he not only committed adultery with Bathsheba, but went so far as to have her husband killed to cover it up. Does that mean that God was saying all men are unable or unwilling to avoid adultery?

The TOG​

 

[Doulos Iesou]

Are Women Moral Leaders?


Can Women ever be 'moral leaders'! Consider that in the story of Sodom and Gomorrah God sent messengers to warn the 'righteous' to flee all immorality but those who were enjoying and profiting from the immorality attacked the messengers instead.


Today we have the same scenario where those who are immoral attack anyone who attempts to flee immorality. Additionally, the story of Sodom and Gomorrah highlights that fact whenever a woman finds the courage to flee the immorality (hint : Lot's wife) she will 'look back' unable to forfeit the pleasures of immorality for she is unwilling to condemn immoral acts like homosexuality.

Does this fact tell us that God is highlighting the frailty of a flesh based morality since a woman was created from the flesh of Adam and therefore is unable to separate her moral judgments from her fleshly desires and emotions?


The essential point is Flee immorality and NEVER look back!



1 Corinthians 6:18
New International Version (NIV)

18 Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a person commits are outside the body, but whoever sins sexually, sins against their own body.



God Bless

note:


Carefully observe that only Lot (the one righteous man remaining in Sodom and Gomorrah) recognized that the messengers were sent by God! All the immoral inhabitants recognized the messengers as only a means to indulge their lustful pleasures.

This is a very odd argument, like something someone from a different planet would make, having made no observations about men and women particularly in the Christian tradition. Just in my personal experience, I have found women to be superior to not only myself but other men, with regards to morality. I think it's dangerous to generalize each gender and make sweeping statements that one gender is more moral than another. I simply take it on an individual to individual basis, and studies on the subject have proved inconclusive.[1]

However, there is absolutely no Biblical basis for the inferiority of the female gender.

[1] http://academic.udayton.edu/richardghere/POL 318/white.pdf

 

[Mike S]

Are women moral leaders?


Yes. Just as with men, some are and some aren't. I don't know why this question is even asked.

 

[Chopper]

Jesus meant for every believer in Him to respect, honor, and consider her position in life. The Scripture says "helper fit for him" (ESV) God knew that man has limits. He created woman with ability to accomplish what man is not equiped to do. That is why when the man and woman marry, God says, they are one! What the man lacks, the woman has. What the woman lacks, the man has. Equal, except that there is a chain of command Christ, Man, Woman. God made it simple, man messes it up. So, are Women moral leaders? If they are in Christ Jesus, YOU BET!

 

[Claudya]

I haven't done a lot of research on this, but from I've been told and seen from discussion on this elsewhere, men and women do think a bit differently--basically our brains tend to process emotion as part of the thinking process.

So do men. Actually the most emotional people I havbe met in my life were men.
Yesterday I actually had a real life debate about creationism (doesn't happen often because most christians here accept evolution) with a guy and I was so annoyed how irrational his argumentation was. It was literally impossible to get a point across because his "reasoning" was made of intuition, emotion, vague language, mindless repetition of things he had read somewhere, and a general resentful (i.e. emotionally driven) rejection of scientific thinking.
Okay a single case example doesn't say much, but my experience is that men and women are equally irrational when it comes to debating.
The difference you perceive may result in women or girls being socially rewarded for emotional, playful and charming behaviour more than men are, and men being rewarded for stoic or purely intellectual behaviour more than women are (because those things are traditionally seen as more typical for one gender than the other).

Anyway, other than that I totally agree with your post.

 

[Claudya]

Some would consider that statement to be trolling.

That thought had crossed my mind.

 

[evenifigoalone]

So do men. Actually the most emotional people I havbe met in my life were men.
Yesterday I actually had a real life debate about creationism (doesn't happen often because most christians here accept evolution) with a guy and I was so annoyed how irrational his argumentation was. It was literally impossible to get a point across because his "reasoning" was made of intuition, emotion, vague language, mindless repetition of things he had read somewhere, and a general resentful (i.e. emotionally driven) rejection of scientific thinking.
Okay a single case example doesn't say much, but my experience is that men and women are equally irrational when it comes to debating.
The difference you perceive may result in women or girls being socially rewarded for emotional, playful and charming behaviour more than men are, and men being rewarded for stoic or purely intellectual behaviour more than women are (because those things are traditionally seen as more typical for one gender than the other).

Anyway, other than that I totally agree with your post.

The person who said it was citing something about the male and female brains using slightly different parts of the brain or something. As I said, have done very little research on that, so I could be wrong. Maybe I should just so I won't have to go by hear-say.

 

[WIP]

He created woman with ability to accomplish what man is not equipped to do. That is why when the man and woman marry, God says, they are one! What the man lacks, the woman has. What the woman lacks, the man has.

This explains why my wife and I are almost complete opposites.

 

[Chopper]

This explains why my wife and I are almost complete opposites.

You are exactly right my friend!

 

[Claudya]

He created woman with ability to accomplish what man is not equiped to do. That is why when the man and woman marry, God says, they are one! What the man lacks, the woman has. What the woman lacks, the man has.

This explains why my wife and I are almost complete opposites.

So as an intelligent woman, should Iook for a dumb man?
That would make things a lot easier in our marriage, as long as he'd admit that I'm cleverer. :yes

 

[Chopper]

So as an intelligent woman, should Iook for a dumb man?
That would make things a lot easier in our marriage, as long as he'd admit that I'm cleverer. :yes

There you go Sister, you're catching on. :yes

 

[jasoncran]

The behaviour of one person represents half of humankind?

Lot himself wasn't a moral role model, and neither were his daughters. They all acted vile. Lot thought so little of women that he would have given his daughters to the crowd to get raped. His daughters, in turn, raped their father to get pregnant later. The wife and mother of the family wasn't that much worse morally than the rest of the family.

But besides that she wasn't particularly immoral compared to her family I'm much more shocked about your reasoning that one woman in the Bible would be proof for all womankind. You know how many men are discarded by God due to their failure in being moral?


Seriously, this is offensive. How many women have you met in your life? Because you sound like someone who knows women only from stereotypes.

uhm no offense. reading the bible from the 21st century is like hating wagner for him being used by hitler. the fact that in ancient jewish/ and modern arab culture. when a man come one homes he was regarding as being higher then ones family treatment. so when the rape gang came to lust he had no choice but to protect him. that is the way it was.

 

[Claudya]

when a man come one homes he was regarding as being higher then ones family treatment.

That sentence makes no sense.
But I would guess it means when a men comes into your house as a guest you'd have to treat him as higher than your family.

Now I can't imagine offering your virgin daughters as a sacrifice to get raped was righteous even under those circumstances. Otherwise the angels wouldn't have prevented that, because why prevent something righteous? Maybe if he'd offered himself as a sacrifice to the thugs that would have been noble.
But even if the moral qualities of Lot himself are out of question.
The entire reasoning of the OP is bizarre. Neither is Lot's wife a represantant of womankind in general. Nor is her behaviour particularly immoral compared to other men or women in the Bible. Some women are presented as role models to other women or even to men in the Bible.
Nor does the Bible ever say women are incapable of moral judgement or incapable to walk away from sin because of their emotions or whatever.

The OP is purely misogynic.

 

[jasoncran]

arab/jewish culture its done TODAY by muslims. yes why? because god used it. why do you think that Abraham's tradition of a tent is still done in jewish wedding? he was always ready to greet and do that. I understand this because I have seen it. do I think it would be a good idea all the time? no but its a good sign when we forgo things for the poor and those guests. no instead we in our "western wisdom" go stay at a hotel mom and dad. our friends. not all of us but its general.

a guest is also a blessing in the jewish world. it meant GOD SENT THEM.

 

[jasoncran]

http://www.chabad.org/kabbalah/article_cdo/aid/380130/jewish/Welcoming-Guests-of-the-Sukkah.htm

http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/78063/jewish/Impediments-to-Inviting-Guests.htm

its a way of reaching the goy.