Aren't these witchcraft practices?

[Havoc]

"Your a Satanist why should we believe anything you say your father the devil
has been a liar from the beginning"

You are confused.

I am not a Satanist. Satan is from your belief system, not mine.

 

[Havoc]

"An unbeliever is an unbeliever."

That may be true, but irrelevant. You see I am not an unbeliever. I simply believe differently than you do.

"Witchcraft doesn't support Christ."

We don't support, or oppose Christ. Your Christ is simply not relevant to us.

"Witchcraft doesn't glorify God."

That is according to your beliefs. You see from my perspective I do Glorify God. I love God with all my heart, and soul, and mind, and body.

"And witchcraft doesn't teach repentance from sin and acknowledgment of the wrath of God."

This is true, again because a wrathful God and the concept of Sin is from your belief system, not mine.


But all this diversions aside, the main point of this thread is, was the vandalism reported anything to do with Witchcraft. I can assure you, as a subject matter expert, that is was not.

 

[Alabaster]

"Witchcraft doesn't support Christ."

We don't support, or oppose Christ. Your Christ is simply not relevant to us.

"Witchcraft doesn't glorify God."

That is according to your beliefs. You see from my perspective I do Glorify God. I love God with all my heart, and soul, and mind, and body.

Luke 11:23
“Anyone who isn’t with me opposes me, and anyone who isn’t working with me is actually working against me".

 

[Rick W]

KJV

Luke 11:23 He that is not with me is against me: and he that gathereth not with me scattereth.

Havoc,
As an unbeliever I was against God for in my thoughts and deeds I rebeled against God. It wasn't like, "I'm rebeling against God!". But I still was.
You may not recognise sin or Satan or the cross or repentance but by that very fact you are indeed rebeling against God. Besides, you've been here what, over 6 or 7 years now? Therefore you have heard but refuse to acknowledge the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost. You're without excuse, you can't say, "well, I never heard the gospel or about who brought it." Fact is, I'd say you're rebeling knowing you're doing just that.
Simply put your choice is "opposition to the cross". You choose to oppose. No way around that.
You know. You've been here far too long.

 

[turnorburn]

Havoc hopefully its not too late as we have a forgiving savior, but read this from I Samuel 15..

23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king.

Now the scripture is referring to King Saul here but the same thing applies, Potluck said you've been here that long? your eternal destiny is at stake don't make it hell :

 

[Rick W]

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
John 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
John 3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
John 3:21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

 

[Havoc]

Luke 11:23
“Anyone who isn’t with me opposes me, and anyone who isn’t working with me is actually working against me".

I have seen that verse before, but I have to say it appears to me more a political statemetn than a statement of reality.

It's like saying anyone who isn't white is an enemy of white people, or anyone who isn't a republican is an enemy of republicans. As a statement designed to instill religious fervor it's effective, but the reality is that there are Christians, and probably enemies of Chrisstians, but the vast majority of people are neither.

One can be for something, or against it, or simply ambivalent. That is where I sit with Christianity, ambivalence.

As far as God goes, I am definitely FOR God.

 

[Alabaster]

Luke 11:23
“Anyone who isn’t with me opposes me, and anyone who isn’t working with me is actually working against me".

I have seen that verse before, but I have to say it appears to me more a political statemetn than a statement of reality.

It's like saying anyone who isn't white is an enemy of white people, or anyone who isn't a republican is an enemy of republicans. As a statement designed to instill religious fervor it's effective, but the reality is that there are Christians, and probably enemies of Chrisstians, but the vast majority of people are neither.

One can be for something, or against it, or simply ambivalent. That is where I sit with Christianity, ambivalence.

As far as God goes, I am definitely FOR God.

Don't sit there and pick apart Jesus' very words. Jesus is the ONLY way to God. Go with Him, or go against Him and miss salvation. Ambivalence is, as Jesus says---opposition. There is no middle road, and in fact, Jesus tells us later through John, that lukewarm people He will vomit out of His very mouth.

Either you are of God, or not. Ambivalence counts as NOT.

On Judgment Day, what you have done with JESUS will be demanded of you. Saying you are for God doesn't figure. It is what you do with the Son that counts. Even Satan believes in God, and He is destined for Gehenna.

 

[Havoc]

KJV
Havoc,
As an unbeliever I was against God for in my thoughts and deeds I rebeled against God. It wasn't like, "I'm rebeling against God!". But I still was.

That's a great testimony, but it really has nothing to do with me. I am not rebelling against God. I love and serve God.

You may not recognise sin or Satan or the cross or repentance but by that very fact you are indeed rebeling against God.

Of course that is not a fact at all, it's a belief.

Besides, you've been here what, over 6 or 7 years now? Therefore you have heard but refuse to acknowledge the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost.

Not at all, I simply don't see God the way you do. I see God the way God chooses to show Himself to me.

You're without excuse, you can't say, "well, I never heard the gospel or about who brought it."

Why would I even bother to say that? The Gospel is your book, not mine.

Fact is, I'd say you're rebeling knowing you're doing just that.

Yes I'm sure you would say that. I, of course, would say something quite different.

Simply put your choice is "opposition to the cross".

Simple? Yes.
Factual? No.
As I've already pointed out my position vis a vis the "Cross" is ambivalence. It simply has no relevance with me and my walk with God.

You choose to oppose. No way around that.
You know. You've been here far too long.

There's an easy way around that, by realizing that what you are saying is your beliefs, not mine.

 

[Alabaster]

Denying the Son, you are denying the Father. Your god is a figment of your imagination, Havoc.

 

[Havoc]

Havoc hopefully its not too late as we have a forgiving savior, but read this from I Samuel 15..

23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king.

Now the scripture is referring to King Saul here but the same thing applies, Potluck said you've been here that long? your eternal destiny is at stake don't make it hell :

I have no particular reason to believe in hell. These verses mayu apply to Saul, they may apply to you, but they simply don't apply to me.

While I appreciate your concern, I have no need of a saviour. I am not lost, nor am i hell bound. My destination is secure, thank you. God has my future well in hand.

 

[Alabaster]

Havoc hopefully its not too late as we have a forgiving savior, but read this from I Samuel 15..

23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king.

Now the scripture is referring to King Saul here but the same thing applies, Potluck said you've been here that long? your eternal destiny is at stake don't make it hell :

I have no particular reason to believe in hell. These verses mayu apply to Saul, they may apply to you, but they simply don't apply to me.

While I appreciate your concern, I have no need of a saviour. I am not lost, nor am i hell bound. My destination is secure, thank you. God has my future well in hand.

Yes God has your future in hand, but it isn't what He has planned for you. His hands are tied by your unbelief. EVERYONE needs a Saviour. Everyone is unfit for God without Him. You are no different. We are born unspeakably evil and in need of redemption,to keep us from damnation.

 

[Havoc]

Don't sit there and pick apart Jesus' very words.

Technically I'm disagreeing with what the Bible claims are Jesus' words

Jesus is the ONLY way to God.

Yes I understand that you believe that. I believe differently

Go with Him, or go against Him and miss salvation.

I don't require salvation.

Ambivalence is, as Jesus says---opposition. There is no middle road, and in fact, Jesus tells us later through John, that lukewarm people He will vomit out of His very mouth.

Either you are of God, or not. Ambivalence counts as NOT.

As a slogan that's probably very effective, but as has been pointed out it is possible for me to be ambivalent. If you choose to see that as opposition, that is your choice.

On Judgment Day, what you have done with JESUS will be demanded of you.

I have no reason to believe in, or fear, any sort of judgement day.

Saying you are for God doesn't figure.

Not to you, perhaps, but that is because you and I see God differently.

It is what you do with the Son that counts. Even Satan believes in God, and He is destined for Gehenna.

Since I don't believe in Jesus or Satan, that statement really has no relevance for me.

 

[Alabaster]

As a slogan that's probably very effective, but as has been pointed out it is possible for me to be ambivalent. If you choose to see that as opposition, that is your choice.

Jesus Christ takes it as opposition.

You obviously have no hard and fast truth. You are as a leaf twisting in the wind, with no firm foundation. No grounding. No mooring that comes only from Jesus Christ. You have missed the gospel and are embracing all manner of lies.

The truth is the truth and not a smorgasboard of ideas we may pick our way through.

 

[Havoc]

Yes God has your future in hand, but it isn't what He has planned for you. His hands are tied by your unbelief.

Except that I do believe, so your contention is moot.


[quote:ad16a]EVERYONE needs a Saviour.

I don't

[quote:ad16a]Everyone is unfit for God without Him.

I understand that you believe that. God tells me differently.

You are no different. We are born unspeakably evil and in need of redemption,to keep us from damnation.

[/quote:ad16a][/quote:ad16a]

How very sad to have to think that way of God's creatures

 

[Alabaster]

You have a perverted sense of who God is and what He tells us. He doesn't tell you one thing and the rest of the world another. You have it wrong.

If you believe you don;t need a Saviour, then you shall not have one and you shall die in your sin. That is the promise of God.

John 3:16
For God loved the world so much that he gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life.

 

[Havoc]

Jesus Christ takes it as opposition.

Perhaps jesus does or ddoesn't. That's not my concern. I answer to God.

You obviously have no hard and fast truth. You are as a leaf twisting in the wind, with no firm foundation. No grounding. No mooring that comes only from Jesus Christ.[quote:ff4b9]

My truth is just as hard asn fast as is yours. I certainly am not twwisting in the wind, my faith in God is a rock. My mooring comes from God.

[quote:ff4b9]You have missed the gospel and are embracing all manner of lies.

Yes I understand that you believe that. I, of course, believe differently.

The truth is the truth and not a smorgasboard of ideas we may pick our way through.

[/quote:ff4b9][/quote:ff4b9]

The truth is the truth to be sure. A claim of truth, however, may or may not contain truth at all. You have a claim of truth, as do I. I see no reason to discard my personal relationship with God just so I can go back to your claimed truth.


But really, aren't we a little off topic here anyways? The topic was about this couple and the vandalism they caused. The questionb is whether it has anything to do with Witchcraft or not. perhaps we could discuss that for at least a little while?

 

[Havoc]

You have a perverted sense of who God is and what He tells us. He doesn't tell you one thing and the rest of the world another. You have it wrong.

Or perhaps you have it wrong.

In the complete absence of any proof, your claim that you are right and I am wrong is spurious at best.

 

[Alabaster]

Yes you shall answer to God at the Great White Throne Judgment. That is the judgment for sinners and they shall be condemned.

Those who know Him, however, know Him only through His Son and are His because of Jesus' blood covering, and they will stand before Jesus Christ at His Judgment seat and receive their rewards.

 

[Alabaster]

You have a perverted sense of who God is and what He tells us. He doesn't tell you one thing and the rest of the world another. You have it wrong.

Or perhaps you have it wrong.

In the complete absence of any proof, your claim that you are right and I am wrong is spurious at best.

My proof is in Jesus the King, Himself. You are invited to come and know Him personally. Refusing that makes you one who can not know the truth, and puts you at an eternal disadvantage, to put it mildly.

John 8:31-32
Jesus said to the people who believed in him, “You are truly my disciples if you remain faithful to my teachings. And you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.â€Â